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TIME: Illegal Immigration Out Of Control  
User currently onlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8281 posts, RR: 26
Posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1852 times:

http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101040920/

Unfortunately one must be a subscriber to read the entirety of the article - but I assure you, if you were ever on the fence about this issue or have adopted the position of 'well, it's okay because...' I urge you to read this astounding piece.

It is LONG PAST high time for us to address immigration and stand up to the political indifference/hypocrisy and corporate collusion that allow this disgusting situation to continue. Whether you are Republican, Democrat or whatever else, this concerns you as an American citizen. Both major parties have done irreparable harm on this issue with their inability to address it.

Who Left the Door Open?

Despite all the talk of homeland security, sneaking into the U.S. is scandalously easy—and on the rise. Millions of illegal aliens will pour across the U.S.-Mexican border this year, many from countries hostile to America. TIME looks at the damage, the dangers and the reasons the U.S. fails to protect itself

The U.S.'s borders, rather than becoming more secure since 9/11, have grown even more porous. And the trend has accelerated in the past year. It's fair to estimate, based on a TIME investigation, that the number of illegal aliens flooding into the U.S. this year will total 3 million—enough to fill 22,000 Boeing 737-700 airliners, or 60 flights every day for a year. It will be the largest wave since 2001 and roughly triple the number of immigrants who will come to the U.S. by legal means.

http://i.timeinc.net/time/covers/1101040920/images/blockquote_1.gif

http://i.timeinc.net/time/covers/1101040920/map/images/map.jpg


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNorth County From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 712 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1829 times:

Saw this story two days ago - Finally they elevating this to a national level.

For the whole story:

http://www.kfi640.com/time_dooropen.html


User currently onlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8281 posts, RR: 26
Reply 2, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1826 times:

We can elevate it all we want - question is, will this ever get the attention it really deserves? Or are our concerns as citizens forever lost to political externalities complicating an already complicated situation?


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 47
Reply 3, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1790 times:

There's nothing complicated about this at all.

1. Stop supporting illegals.

2. Round 'em up and deport 'em.

3. Seal up our borders tighter than KROC's ass whenever LHMark is around.


User currently offlineLevent From France, joined Sep 2004, 1718 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1778 times:

Why don´t you just build a very, very high wall around your country with very, very thick walls and no gates at all? And see how long you survive by yourselves.

User currently offlineLeviticus From New Zealand, joined Oct 2007, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1778 times:

Seriously, it would be a great way to create employment too, just hire 2 million people for boarder patrol and it would solve a lot of problems. This is what tax money should go too.

User currently offlineWellHung From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1773 times:

Definitely. It's worth it to pay 20x more to keep the people out of the country than it is to deal with them once they get in.

User currently onlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8281 posts, RR: 26
Reply 7, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1773 times:

It's not that simple at all.

Liberals will never support rounding up and deporting illegals for 'civil rights' and 'humanitarian' concerns and conservatives will never voluntarily tell business entities they're in cahoots with to stop skirting the law by directly recruiting cheap illegal labor. Until we can tell these so-called 'representatives' of ours where to go, nothing will change.

As for some of the intellectually-challenged comments made thus far in this thread, all I have to say is please refrain from speaking on this most serious of topics unless you have something meaningful to say.



[Edited 2004-09-16 02:11:37]


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineLevent From France, joined Sep 2004, 1718 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1760 times:

You´ll probably use Mexicans to patrol those borders anyway, as you´re too busy saving the rest of the world against the Arabs...

User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 47
Reply 9, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1760 times:

We don't need a big ass wall. Hell if we enforced our laws and eliminated the incentive for them to come here, a fence of chicken wire would suffice.

Liberals will never support rounding up and deporting illegals for 'civil rights' and 'humanitarian' concerns and conservatives will never voluntarily tell business entities they're in cahoots with to stop skirting the law by directly recruiting cheap illegal labor. Until we can tell these so-called 'representatives' of ours where to go, nothing will change.


I'm afraid I agree with you 100%.


User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7810 posts, RR: 16
Reply 10, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1754 times:

As usual the regular classist, racist opinions come out and immediately label the immigrants as a scourge.

The reason why illegal immigration is as big a problem as it currently is due to the demand for low wage labor for outstrips the supply of "legal" immigrants. If the jobs were not here and readily available you can bet your bottom dollar that they would not be flocking across the border by the thousands. They aren't here for the hell of it and piss you off. They are here because there are jobs readily available that are better paying than in their home country.

Now to solve the problem you need to do several things. One is to drastically increase the number of work visas available for legal immigrants. Secondly you need to crack down, seriously, on employers who exploit illegals. But this is where the problem really exists. Everyone from small mom and pop operations, to large multi-nationals make extensive use of illegal labor. The construction industry, the hospitality industry, agriculture use illegal labor and have enough political clout to quietly support continued illegal immigration.

Fortifying the US-Mexico border is not the answer. Since we have built up the border at the major cities illegals have begun crossing in more remote desolate areas. And the death toll is simply appaling. I believe we now have more deaths with people crossing the US-Mexico border than any other border crossing in the world.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently onlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8281 posts, RR: 26
Reply 11, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1737 times:

The reason why illegal immigration is as big a problem as it currently is due to the demand for low wage labor for outstrips the supply of "legal" immigrants. If the jobs were not here and readily available you can bet your bottom dollar that they would not be flocking across the border by the thousands. They aren't here for the hell of it and piss you off. They are here because there are jobs readily available that are better paying than in their home country.

Nobody is disputing any of this. I don't know where you're deriving classist or racist opinions from either. My family is Mexican-American. The POINT here is that the current system is non sustainable, unethical, and does more harm than good for *all* involved.

For the record, I'd much rather be helping out Mexico in a structural fashion, providing strong disincentives for the hopelessly corrupt pols there to encourage the situation at hand, than giving out the multibilliondollar handout to Iraq we're currently dispensing.




If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineLevent From France, joined Sep 2004, 1718 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1730 times:

There we go, DesertJets, you got that right. To the other guys, I don´t give the comments I do to piss you off, but what´s your point by blaming the immigrants for all your misery? Exactly the same problem exists in Europe. In Holland for example, in the sixties thousands of workers from Turkey, Morocco etc were "invited" to come and work in the factories. One reason was a shortage of own workers due to the effects of WWII, and another "secret" one the reluctancy of the Dutch to work whole days in miserable conditions in textile factories, agriculture and so on. The immigrants settled down and had their families come over, and without them the country wouldn´t have flourished as it has. The same goes for nearly every Western country.
The problem is, people don´t see the difference between honest, hard working immigrants and advantage takers who just come to make easy money. Does any of you feel offended if I´d say you must be part of the KKK, or buddies of your fellow US-citizen Timothy McVeigh? Well, then you know how lots of immigrants feel when you call them bloodsuckers and terrorists without any valid reason.


User currently onlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8281 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1723 times:

The problem is, people don´t see the difference between honest, hard working immigrants and advantage takers who just come to make easy money. Does any of you feel offended if I´d say you must be part of the KKK, or buddies of your fellow US-citizen Timothy McVeigh? Well, then you know how lots of immigrants feel when you call them bloodsuckers and terrorists without any valid reason.

Please at least *read* the article before spewing uninformed garbage like that. Those of us with half a heart to care are well aware of the situation in Europe. Clearly, so far, you're only able to see the angles of this that you're inclined to. Open your eyes a bit more and you might see the rest.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineLevent From France, joined Sep 2004, 1718 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1717 times:

You posted your reply while mine was underway, Aaron747... computers and connections sometimes also account for misunderstandings.

User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5743 posts, RR: 19
Reply 15, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1715 times:

Exactly the same problem exists in Europe. In Holland for example, in the sixties thousands of workers from Turkey, Morocco etc were "invited" to come and work in the factories.

Isn't it also true that these people often live in self-contained communities with little interest to learn the language and interact with the rest of the society? And that children of these economic immigrants, who grew up in relative economic prosperity and received education in their respective European countries are willing to listen to preachings of radical Islamic clerics? Clerics who very often act as recruiting officers for jihad and are capable to influence the whole community by both the power of faith and lack of "social capital" among members of the community.
I believe that's the case in France, the UK with widely medialised cases of "honor killings" and I've read an article about Somali minority in Denmark, where medical checks of schoolage children revealed that many Somali girls are still undregoing the barbaric "circumcision" even in DK. And that some parents don't hesitate to send their daughter "on holidays" to Somalia, where she is undergoing this "operation" - hygienic conditionare easy to imagine.


User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 47
Reply 16, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1711 times:



User currently offlineLevent From France, joined Sep 2004, 1718 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1705 times:

Don´t mix up people´s weaknesses regarding religion with social abilities, L410Turbolet. Most of the original immigrants were brought over from remote villages in Morocco and Eastern Turkey, and already were living in a very limited and close society. If they don´t accept any outside influences in their own country, how can you expect them to integrate in a completely different culture?
Anything that bears the name ´fundementalist´ is wrong in my opinion, in any religion. My grandparents are Muslim and I strongly reject some of their opinions, but it´s their life and their culture. And the same goes for any Christian or Jew who tries to convince me how right his religion is.
If you´d go on holiday to modern Turkey, you´ll meet a totally different people to those you would see in the poor areas of Dutch cities. A city like Istanbul is not comparable to Adana in the southeast of the country.


User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5743 posts, RR: 19
Reply 18, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1701 times:

Levent,
there's no discusion abou that. My point was that it's an interesting sociological phenomena that it's the second generation of immigrants who are very "fertile ground" for radicalism. Generation born, raised and educated in the West.


User currently offlineLevent From France, joined Sep 2004, 1718 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1698 times:

Might be due to a feeling of being left out by both their traditional parents, who they don´t feel comfortable with, and the Western culture, that doesn´t accept them as normal fellow countrymen. Which makes them weak to radical groups who do offer them this sense of being accepted.

User currently offlineNKP S2 From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1714 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1688 times:

It's not that simple at all

Liberals will never support rounding up and deporting illegals for 'civil rights' and 'humanitarian' concerns and conservatives will never voluntarily tell business entities they're in cahoots with to stop skirting the law by directly recruiting cheap illegal labor. Until we can tell these so-called 'representatives' of ours where to go, nothing will change

Actually, the crux of the issue really IS that simple. The above paragraph is spot on and accurately condensed.



User currently onlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8281 posts, RR: 26
Reply 21, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1674 times:



they look good, but my grandmother's are better.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineTbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7013 posts, RR: 26
Reply 22, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1634 times:

A very interesting thought, should illegal immigrants be forced to serve in the United States armed forces if they wish to remain in this country? Lets say for two years. Would that be enough to dissuade them from coming?


NO URLS in signature
User currently offlineARGinMIA From Argentina, joined Nov 2001, 487 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1630 times:

Have you seen the movie.. "The day after tomorrow"? It shows you why you should never spit up..


Alto.. Mucho mas alto.. hasta la cumbre
User currently offlineQIguy24 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (10 years 3 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1625 times:

Tbar,

Do you honestly think that?? Just look how many poor people who does that in the US already. What makes you think that the illegal immigrants wouldn't do the same? They would do anything to be allowed to stay in the US.

To be honest I would have done the same thing if that was my key to be able to live in the US legal.


25 Sean-SAN- : Republicans = won't do anything, illegal immigrants provide labor for big corporations and businesses. Democrat = won't do anything to hurt their mino
26 TriJetFan1 : There is actually only two politicans who realize this.... Tom Tancredo (r) of Colorado and Pat Buchanan
27 Slider : This is one of my biggest hot button issues, especially living here in TX. I'm disgusted with the way the Republicans and Democrats have danced around
28 NKP S2 : Republicans = won't do anything, illegal immigrants provide labor for big corporations and businesses. Democrat = won't do anything to hurt their mino
29 Alessandro : Sean, don´t forget the agriculture area, lot of farming are dependent on inexpensive labor. Side effect on sealing the border towards Mexico would be
30 NKP S2 : Sean, don´t forget the agriculture area, lot of farming are dependent on inexpensive labor So was the pre-civil war south in the US. It was one of th
31 Post contains images Jgore : Well, here's the deal guys: With the technological power the United States has, it'll be very easy to "seal" the borders and don't let anyone in a ill
32 Yyz717 : But.....have you anyone of you ever thought who will make those undesirable jobs the American citizens don't and wouldn't like to do ?. If illegal imm
33 Post contains images Jgore : I bet 98% of aneters would be a fruit picker if it paid $80k pa. Since it pays only $20k pa (I'm guessing here) no Americans are interested. Well, you
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