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More Lies From Bush  
User currently offlineSchoenorama From Spain, joined Apr 2001, 2440 posts, RR: 26
Posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1259 times:

As has happened earlier on with the "We Found the WMD's" claim by Mr Bush, he seems to have had yet another 'attack' of Wishful Thinking when on two separate occasions he made the following claim:


"There's 100,000 troops trained: police, guard, special units, border patrol. There's going to be 125,000 trained by the end of this year."

(President George W. Bush, Presidential Debate, September 30th, 2004)


Now these numbers, although very impressive, stand in contrast with those from a variety of sources, including Pentagon documents and a recent Appropriations Committee Hearing.


"Many of President George W. Bush's assertions about progress in Iraq -- from police training and reconstruction to preparations for January elections -- are in dispute, according to internal Pentagon documents, lawmakers and key congressional aides on Sunday."

"The documents show that of the nearly 90,000 currently in the police force, only 8,169 have had the full eight-week academy training. Another 46,176 are listed as "untrained," and it will be July 2006 before the administration reaches its new goal of a 135,000-strong, fully trained police force."

"Six Army battalions [5,376 soldiers] have had "initial training," while 57 National Guard battalions [51,072 soldiers], 896 soldiers in each, are still being recruited or "awaiting equipment." Just eight Guard battalions [7,168 soldiers] have reached "initial (operating) capability," and the Pentagon acknowledged the Guard's performance has been "uneven."

"The July report also claimed that 10,800 of the planned 18,000 border enforcement guards had received some form of training by Coalition forces. In reality, none of these guards have received any centralized training to date, and training is not even scheduled to begin until January 2005."


Now I can somehow understand there are minor differences between the presidents' assertions and reality. But the differences in numbers here are no peanuts. Bush affirms that there are 100,000 troops trained between police, guard, special units and border patrol. When adding up the real numbers of trained personnel (police, guard, special units and border patrol), the total doesn't even get close to 50% of the total number Bush affirms and of this number, many have only received some basic training.

Now this isn't the first Bush statement on Iraq which is factually wrong (and I am afraid it won't be his last). But it is important to point this one out as it was made during the first Presidential debate last week. Many people will certainly have been impressed by those numbers Bush mentioned repeatedly and I am afraid many of them are not aware, nor will become aware before the elections, that those same numbers are nothing but lies and 'wishful thinking' on behalf of George W. Bush!



Sources and more at http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=590914§ion=news & http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/ny18_lowey/iraqreconreallothearing092404.html


Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1241 times:

Ok, I don't like Bush - I don't like the policies he stands for, I don't like (most of) the decisions he's made during his time in office so far, I do think that things can (and will) get better as soon as he's out of office (whenever that'll be) - but... and this is my actual point:

Can we, please, stop starting a new thread whenever one of the two presidential canditates says something that has turned out to be not quite true, or overoptimistic, or false, or whatever else???

This is getting so old - if you'd try to form your opinion from what's being said in the NonAv forum of a.net (and I sincerely hope that none of the US members who'll be voting next month are doing that!!!) you'd by now have a list longer than the US's Declaration of Independence, the Charta of the United Nations and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights combined - and that's for each of the candidates separately!

Give it a rest!!! On both sides!

Regards,
Frank



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineKlm-md11 From Greece, joined Mar 2002, 471 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1226 times:

hey dude,

what´s new??



GELUK IS GELUL MET EEN K
User currently offlineLeviticus From New Zealand, joined Oct 2007, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1223 times:

what´s new??

or, who cares ?


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13792 posts, RR: 63
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1199 times:

Sounds so familar!

Here is another little song from 40 years ago, but quite fitting:

I FEEL LIKE I´M FIXING TO DIE RAG
Country Joe McDonald and the Fish

Gimme an F!


F!
Gimme an I!
I!
Gimme an S!
S!
Gimme an H!
H!
What's that spell ?
FISH!
What's that spell ?
FISH!
What's that spell ?
FISH!

Yeah, come on all of you, big strong men,
Uncle Sam needs your help again.
He's got himself in a terrible jam
Way down yonder in Vietnam
So put down your books and pick up a gun,
We're gonna have a whole lotta fun.


And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam;
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.


Well, come on generals, let's move fast;
Your big chance has come at last.
Gotta go out and get those reds -
The only good commie is the one who's dead
And you know that peace can only be won
When we've blown 'em all to kingdom come.


And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam;
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.


Huh!


Well, come on Wall Street, don't move slow,
Why man, this is war au-go-go.
There's plenty good money to be made
By supplying the Army with the tools of the trade,
Just hope and pray that if they drop the bomb,
They drop it on the Viet Cong.


And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam.
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.


Well, come on mothers throughout the land,
Pack your boys off to Vietnam.
Come on fathers, don't hesitate,
Send 'em off before it's too late.
Be the first one on your block
To have your boy come home in a box.


And it's one, two, three
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam.
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.



Come on the draft!


Jan


User currently offlineSchoenorama From Spain, joined Apr 2001, 2440 posts, RR: 26
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1172 times:

Klm-md11:


"hey dude,

what´s new??
"



Is this the way people in Gelderland discuss, dude ?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

BTW, how can you have Jaysit and Kl911 on your Respected User list at the same time?  Confused  Confused



Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
User currently offlineCommander_Rabb From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 771 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1112 times:

All this energy spliting hairs.

Don't foreign nationals have their own politicians to pick apart?

*sigh


User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7912 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1072 times:

From what I know, Americans aren't so much involved in training of police and troops anyway.


I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineSchoenorama From Spain, joined Apr 2001, 2440 posts, RR: 26
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1061 times:

Commander_Rabb:

"Don't foreign nationals have their own politicians to pick apart?"

This is a non-US website, Commander. It is located in Sweden. This means that, unless you are Swedish, you are as much of a foreign national as I am.

Now are you going to contribute something substantial to this discussion or will you simply critisize the non-US citizens who actually did post something on-topic?



Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
User currently offlineJamesag96 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2095 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1045 times:

Oh blah blah blah...go to Factcheck.org and you'll see that both of the blowhards were full of shit the other night.


Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
User currently offlineWellHung From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 996 times:

Holy Sh*t!! A lying politician!




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User currently offlineSchoenorama From Spain, joined Apr 2001, 2440 posts, RR: 26
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 969 times:

Jamesag96:


"Oh blah blah blah...go to Factcheck.org and you'll see that both of the blowhards were full of shit the other night."

There is some difference, James, as anyone can tell from the http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=271 site. Let's see the differences:

Kerry's Lies

1.
'Kerry said U.S. forces allowed Osama bin Laden to escape in 2001 during the battle at Tora Bora in Afghanistan because the administration "outsourced" fighting to Afghan "warlords."'

vs.

'It is true that military leaders strongly suspected bin Laden was there, and it is also true that the Pentagon relied heavily on Afghan forces to take on much of the fighting at Tora Bora in an effort to reduce US casualties. But Kerry overstates the case by stating flatly that "we had him surrounded."'

I believe 99% of people were convinced at the time bin Laden actually was at Tora Bora. It wasn't until afterwards that many started to believe Osama either left or was never there. Factually, Kerry was wrong stating the Bush Administration 'allowed' Osama to escape, for the only reason that no one can ever be sure Osama was in the area in the first place.


2.
'Kerry continued to refer to "the cost" of the Iraq war as $200 billion, when it fact the cost to date is just over $120 billion, according to budget officials.'

vs.

'Kerry is counting money that has been appropriated to be spent in the fiscal year that started Friday, Oct. 1. Much of the money Kerry counts has not even been requested formally by the Bush administration, and is only an estimate of what will be sought sometime in the coming year, to be spent later.'

The only difference here seems to be what one can consider "a cost". One side states that only money spend can be referred to as "a cost" while Kerry considers money planned to be spend but not spend yet as "a cost" also. Not much of a lie, if you ask me. If so far $120 billion has been spend and a further $80 bilion is planned to be spend, I believe it is pretty accurate to state that the cost of the Iraqi war is $200 bilion.


3.
'Kerry said that Bush is spending "hundreds of millions of dollars to research bunker-busting nuclear weapons"'

vs.

'[T]he budget for research on that weapon is less that $35 million. The Post said the administration has set aside nearly $500 million for future budgets -- but that's contingent on Congress approving production of such a weapon.'

A bit like the one above. There's only one word here which is factually wrong: spending. If Kerry would have said "Bush is planning to spend hundreds of millions of dollars...", he would have been saying nothing wrong.

Then there's two occasions where Kerry misspoke which can't be considered as a real lie as either what he said was against his own interest ('"we got weapons of mass destruction crossing the (Iraq) border every single day, and they're blowing people up." Kerry meant terrorists were crossing the border, not nuclear weapons.'), or was unimportant for the rest of the debate ('he referred to looking at KGB records in Treblinka Square in a visit to Russia. Treblinka was a Nazi death camp. Kerry meant Lubyanka Square.')

There's only one clear lie on Kerry's behalf Factcheck.org has come across:

4.
'they had to close the subway in New York when the Republican Convention was there," blaming Bush for not supplying money to fix tunnels and bridges.'

vs.

'"We did not stop any trains," said Transit Authority spokesman Paul Fleuranges. "I will not guess or opine what he (Kerry) was talking about."'



Now let's have a look at Bush. First there is the issue mentioned in the thread-opener Here's the rest:

2.
'The President misquoted Kerry's position on how quickly troops might be withdrawn from Iraq. Bush claimed Kerry once said "I'll have them out of there in six months," which is false. Kerry complained, "he's misled us again."'

vs.

'What Kerry actually said was that he believed he could "significantly reduce" US troop levels in Iraq within six months of taking office -- not at all the same thing as having all troops "out of there."'

In other words, Bush misquotes his opponent for personal gain, a habit he probably picked up from his Swift Republican buddies.

3.
'The President said twice that "75 percent" of al Qaeda leaders have been "brought to justice."'

vs.

'But as The Associated Press reported Oct. 1, Bush was referring to the deaths or arrests of 75 percent of bin Laden's network at the time of the September 11 attacks -- not those who are running the terrorist organization today.'

Not really a lie, but sure a mean way to deceive the public, something we've also experienced before. When one takes into account that the invasion of Iraq has actually increased the al-Qaeda recruits world-wide, one certainly gets an idea of just how mean this deception really is.

4.
'Bush said that 10 million people had registered to vote in the coming presidential election in Afghanistan, which he called a "phenomenal statistic."'

vs.

'Human Rights Watch issued a report Sept. 29 citing "widespread multiple registration of voters." It said the 10 million figure is probably inflated.'

If Bush would have added that of those '10 million people' "many will be able to vote more than once during the same election", he wouldn't have said anything wrong!

5.
'Bush said he has increased spending on curbing nuclear proliferation by "about 35 percent" since he took office.'

vs.

'But The Washington Post reported Oct. 1 that Bush proposed a 13 percent cut in his first budget as President -- about $116 million. Much of the increases since then have been added by Congress, the Post reported.'

Not a real lie although Bush's intention was to deceive, once again. Bush actually has increased spending but not because he wanted (he actually proposed a 13 percent cut), but because of Congress. But he's the one who spends it!

6.
'"My administration worked with the congress to create the department of homeland security."'

vs.

'In fact, Bush opposed creation of the separate department for nearly nine months before turning around and supporting it.'

Again, not a real lie, but also again another deception. Bush makes it look as if his Administration is and always has been a great supporter of the Department of Homeland Security, when the truth is quite different.


Just found this interesting op-ed which somehow explains why Bush lost the first debate (and said the things he said): "THE PRESIDENT HAS 'OVALITIS'" http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ucrr/thepresidenthasovalitis




[Edited 2004-10-04 01:57:03]


Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
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