Oz777 From Australia, joined Jun 2000, 521 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (14 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2448 times:
What is the real definition of "marriage". In fact is is not really Christian, but an institution recognised bya whole series of cultures as a formal union betwen male and female.
It has devolved with legal obligation, historically on the basis of "ownership". Of more recent times, equality and equity of the sexes has removed that, although I have to admit that many religions still promote a "beholden" theme.
Given that the union between the sexes formalises a natural obligation also, the concept of marriage, embraces a number of parameters in the relationship, both within the union, and external to it.
Same sex unions, while fulfilling the legal recognition of each parties rights in the contract, only partly fulfils those parameters. What ever one's individual beliefs, the majority view (and that is not necessarity restricted to "christian" attitudes) is such that a "marriage" is still between different sexes.
The problem really is about respect and the removal of bigotry, of which discrimination is a manifestation. Where same sex "marriages" create a division in the broader community, is that for a majority, the concept of a full "marriage" carries obligation beyond the legal recognition of mutual commitment.
The world has really only started to embrace equality over the last 100 years, based on a natural order of things extending probably 100 times that period. The concept of same sex unions adopting the phraseology and external rights demeans the "heterosexual" concept and perception of their own "marriage".
Threaten a persons view or perspective and they become defensive, particularly if that is a long held and reinforced part of our society. That is the natural reaction to same sex unions these days I think. Perhaps it is pushing the envelope too early - wait until the majority come to terms with homosexuality, garner respect and build on that.
There are an awful lot of people in the world who have been "indoctrinated" with the concept that non heterosexual individuals are somehow lesser people. Challenge that perception (a) quickly and (b) by legal imposition and the reaction from the majority will be very defensive. And non-accepting of conventions that challenge the institutions upon which our society is built.
It comes down to respect for each other - a facet of our society that seems to have headed towards selfishness and become lost as we have become more "educated".
God that philosophical - I surprise myself!!
Watewate From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 2284 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (14 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2426 times:
There was a ceremony at a local Toronto church for two couples- one being male/male marriage and other being female/female marriage. The church had hoped to use a loophole in the law- recognizing the publishing of baans as a legal marriage (or something to that extent). The ceremony went ahead with very little opposition and a whole lot of publicity.
If a church is willing to let the marriage go (as was the case a few months ago), I don't see why it can't be legal. It's going to be legal sooner or later- might as well make it legal now than later.
Ryanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3222 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (14 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2401 times:
I'm 100% heterosexual but I think that if two members of the same sex want to live their lives together they should be entitled to the same recognition and rights as heterosexual couples. Who cares about what some 2000 year old book says? It's all about ensuring there is equality in our society, and although I can't speak for the US, here in the UK marriage is something recognised by law and not necessarily by God. How many people still get married in a Church anyway?....
I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
CPDC10-30 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4945 posts, RR: 21
Reply 18, posted (14 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2394 times:
Its pretty sad that the public strongly supports equality but the liberals are too afraid to touch the topic...however I think they'll change in time. I don't think it'll be more than five years before my husband and I can be *legally* married in Canada
Mx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (14 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2387 times:
You have been added to my respected users list!
It is a shame that certain people, still through what they claim as religious belief, condemn same sex marriages as not compatible with that.
What is amazing though, is that they will seek out our services, expect us to be waiters for them, like nice clothing designs and all the other things they enjoy in society.
To those bigots out there, if you don't like same sex couples then why don't you wear a badge, one that shows that you don't like them. One that shows you are too immature to realise that their is so much more to life than having a disposition towards others.
Wearing these badges will show to others your intolerance and bigotry. It will also show whoever may be tending to you, whether that be in a bar, restaurant, hospital, radar trap or whatever profession 'the real you'. Then you can expect service accordingly.
Is it so difficult to expect equal rights? This is the 21st century now?
An-225 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 3952 posts, RR: 36
Reply 20, posted (14 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2381 times:
>>>What's the problem?
A marriage is a sacred union between man and woman. Not between man and man or woman and woman. That's the problem. Enough said.<<< Quit spewing your Nazi Bullshit, N400QX. Most civilized countries do not view homosexuality as a big deal, countries like Sweden, Switzerland, Finland, Holland, Denmark, etc.. And now Canada - that is great! I hope US becomes one of those countries some time before I die. I am completely heterosexual, but I am not homophobic, I don't think it makes a person any less of an individual.
Personally I don't think that marriage is necessary anyway, but if someone wants to get married, whether they're same sex or not - why not? Let them do whatever they want, it does not affect you.
Good decision, Go Canada!
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
LH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 52
Reply 22, posted (14 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2370 times:
I seem to find myself indifferent on the topic. Even though I am gay, I seem to find myself disillusioned by marriage as an "institution", so I don't know if I would even take up the option even if it was presented to me. Although it does amaze me that Canadians have such drastically different views. Hey, how about you guys send some of your liberal "joie de vivre" south, please, America could use it.
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Mbmbos From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2716 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (14 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2371 times:
Like LH 423, I have mixed feelings about the concept of marriage. But I certainly appreciate some of the legal benefits that a marriage contract provides.
Over the past twelve years, my partner and I have had to arrange power of attorney for health and financial purposes (otherwise, my partner would have no legal rights to oversee my health care if I were to suddenly become hospitalized). We've had to purchase separate household insurance policies (up until five years ago, married couples and straight living-together couples in Massachusetts could purchase one policy per household but gay couples could not). We've had to draw up special contracts so that we could establish co-ownership of automobiles and houses. In some job situations we've had to pay for our health insurance separately because we were not afforded the same joint insurance programs that were offered to married couples in the office.
On the legal front things have improved for gay couples, but still, it isn't easy or cheap. I just wish we were afforded the same legal rights as our married friends.
N400QX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (14 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2348 times:
>Hey, how about you guys send some of your liberal "joie de vivre" south, please, America could use it.
NOOOO.... Definately not. How about us Americans send our liberal 'joie de vivre' north and the Canadians (and American liberals) can live in the socialist utopia they've always dreamed of without screwing over the right-minded conservatives. Sound good? Great... I'm sure us conservatives could chip in on the airline tickets.
: So Same sex marriages are now legal in your country? But has this achieved anything for the cause of people with different preferences like more socia
: People don't always have to follow the bible(i don't think I ever have) and the way I see it, if two people of the same sex want to spend the rest of
: ALOT of people get married in a church and guess what ... I happen to believe in that "2000" year old book, and to me its a HOLY BOOK so have some res
: Indianguy: If you read the title of the post: The majority of Canaidians support same sex marriage. It is not legal yet.
: Although being 100% heterosexual, I'm all for it! Gay marriages are already legal in Holland (since a couple of months ago) and here in Belgium a simi
: I swear to Christ himself the USA will most likely just collapse from inner social wounds. This country will just collapse from the people that live i
: If your country is going to "collapse" it is because people like you want it to. We are talking about state recognized marriages here...not religious
: I am not talking about same sex marriages here im talking in general! All of this harm we do to our country everyday.
: I would never discriminate against a Gay individual. They are just the same as anyone. I dont have a problem with Gay marriages. Now watch me get slam
: GO CANADA is what I say, but also with marriage comes the rights to alimony and the headaches of filing for divorce so there's some food for thought?!
: Go Canada! As a heterosexual, I am all for gay marriages. This is strictly state recognized marriage. If the Mormon Church, Southern Baptist or any ot
: Thanks mx5_boy! Marco, you go read your book then. Meanwhile, I will do my best to ensure that my children grow up in an equitable and tolerant societ
: It's not about seeing marriage as "just a contract", but ensuring the rights of people. It goes the same for straight, non-married couples as well, th
: I will read my HOLY book, don't worry about it, that doesn't concern you but show some respect and tolerance yourself, just like you did towards Islam
: Kind of relating to what Marco said, in the paper today there was a little blip on Egyptian officials arresting 30 gay men at a gay wedding, citing in
: I say let people do whatever they feel like doing. If they like guys, they like guys, and if they like girls, they like girls. I hear this word a lot
: ...they're lucky they weren't in Saudi or else they would have had their heads chopped off!
: It is nice to see so many different kinds of comments on this topic. I feel that some of the users here are very self-centred. Some of them are old fa
: Yukee, Thank you, I couldn't agree more. Cheers, mb ***Absolutely Ansett***
: http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/Sounds/wierder.wav Johnny never lies!
: I'm glad you agree more with my husband than you do with me
: CPDC10-30, Consider yourself very lucky! Yukee sounds like a very nice and thoughtful guy! Cheers, mb ***Absolutely Ansett***