Qb001 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2053 posts, RR: 4 Posted (8 years 7 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2636 times:
If you had any doubt that Bush and his administration are dangerous religious zealotes, what more will you need now ?
Washington, DC — The Bush Administration has decided that it will stand by its approval for a book claiming the Grand Canyon was created by Noah’s flood rather than by geologic forces, according to internal documents released today by Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility (PEER).
Despite telling members of Congress and the public that the legality and appropriateness of the National Park Service offering a creationist book for sale at Grand Canyon museums and bookstores was “under review at the national level by several offices,” no such review took place, according to materials obtained by PEER under the Freedom of Information Act. Instead, the real agency position was expressed by NPS spokesperson Elaine Sevy as quoted in the Baptist Press News:
“Now that the book has become quite popular, we don’t want to remove it.”
There are also many complaints by US government scientists that on many occasion, the administration has put scientific data and evidences on the side, in order to promote either commercial interests or religious beliefs. This story constitutes one more example.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
JGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2585 times:
His point being, that only in America would junk "science" like Creationism be granted any kind of status, rather than being mocked and ridiculed as it clearly deserves. A responsible scientific and ecological (and above all Federally-funded) outfit like the US Parks and Wildlife Service should not be giving this kind of crap shelf-space, and the fact that it does is a sad indication of just how far the religious right has managed to penetrate and corrupt American society.
Qb001 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2053 posts, RR: 4 Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2558 times:
I'm glad to see that at least one member understands the full implication of this news.
To the others, well, I guess there is something in you as deep as the Grand Canyon, and I'm afraid it's neither your understanding of the issues, nor your intellectual capacities...
Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
Nosedive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2229 times:
So what, can you prove that it was NOT created by the flood ? Duh !
It's more of a matter of the "seperation of church and state", if there even is such a thing. My take on the whole matter is that the US gov't can approve whatever religious dogma they choose, so long as they require me to read it or ban anything that ruffles their religious feathers. Meaning, please don't take actions based on religion alone. Though the actions that led the War in Iraq & the gay marriage ban can be heavily debated.
About the Grand Canyon and the flood, I believe that if there is a higher being, it made, and thus will abide, the laws of physics. I also believe that this higher power doesn't want to look hypocritical..... thus I believe this being must have "made" the Grand Canyon by natural weathering effects
Jaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2221 times:
Well, thats why the US is so heavily polarized and politically divided.
On one side we have a culture of secular scientific rationalism.
On the other side we have religious retrogrades and their zombie followers mindlessly invoking idiotic dogma in really ugly mega churches that look like tacky Ramada Inns.
And then we have an idiotic regime that coddles the foolish fantasies of the latter.
Oly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6182 posts, RR: 11 Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2156 times:
Must have been a big flood for Noah's ark to end up in Turkey and also create the GC and miraculously leave the surrounding land flat for miles and miles.
Anyway, I thought the concensus was that there was a landbridge between Gibraltar and N Africa that broke causing the Atlantic to flood in. There was a tv program about it a while ago and they discovered beaches around the black sea that were 100's of metres below the present sea level.
Man City p3 w3 d0 l0 f4 a0 P9 - hey it may never happen again!
JGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2138 times:
Oly720man - I saw a similiar program, but the theory they had was that the Flood was actually the flooding of the Black Sea basin, caused by the Mediterranean sea breaking through the Dardanelles gap. They deduced this from the reoccupation of formerly abandoned hilltip settlements higher up from the coast of the Black Sea by later generations, who it was thought had migrated to the plains (which then got flooded). It seemed very plausible to me, and would explain quite nicely how the Flood mythology crept into Babylonian folklore, followed by Greek and Hebrew folklores later on.
Banco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 55 Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2130 times:
The concept of a great flood is prevalent in the mythology of a great many cultures around the world. It seems reasonable to assume that it may well have happened, though the religious element of it is a separate matter. Given that sea levels did rise dramatically several thousand years ago at the end of the last ice age (creating Britain as an island for one thing) it could easily be a reference to that.
Of course, that doesn't have much to do with the idea that the Grand Canyon was created by such a flood.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
JGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2118 times:
RE: Given that sea levels did rise dramatically several thousand years ago at the end of the last ice age (creating Britain as an island for one thing)
No doubt the "Stone Age Times" had a big headline at the time "Ice Age Ends - Continent Cut Off".
RT514 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2084 times:
...so he must spend his days on A.net posting threads about the evil George Bush empire.
Very nice, Solarix. Now, do you actually have anything constructive to contribute?
It's more of a matter of the "seperation of church and state", if there even is such a thing.
Exactly. Despite many here failing to realize it, that's actually the issue at hand, the Grand Canyon just happens to be the subject. The "seperation of church and state" was a fundamental concept as written by Thomas Jefferson and with this book, and the fact that it is approved by an administration, is stealing credibility from a traditionally fundamental American concept. Try to move in on "the right to bear arms" and the volume of opposition would be much louder.
On one side we have a culture of secular scientific rationalism.
On the other side we have religious retrogrades and their zombie followers mindlessly invoking idiotic dogma in really ugly mega churches that look like tacky Ramada Inns.
And then we have an idiotic regime that coddles the foolish fantasies of the latter.
Bravo, Jaysit. So much truth... and said with an enviable amount of wit.
Airplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2004 times:
Solarix,
I'm glad to see that your posts are just as relevant and useful to the discussion as always.
But that's what I expect from someone who works odd jobs (Doing whatever) and spends his free time "Monitoring Aircraft and Military Communications, Surveillance and Eavesdropping." That profile sure paints a picture...See, I can read a profile, sink to your level and use the information in an attempt to discredit you...but to what end? Your do a much better job than I could by just posting. Keep it up.
But now for something relevant to the topic. Normally I would think that this sort of thing isn't newsworthy. Different people have different opinions on everything including how the earth was formed.
If they want to ignore science, then who am I to criticize. But....when the supreme leader of the "The Great Satan" as Solerix calls the US, actually wades into the entire issue and goes out of his way to "approve" a book like this in the context it is presented, really makes you wonder.
Will future generations of scientists and engineers support the rhetoric that makes statements in the bible literal interpretations? Will architects ensure the roof is strong enough to hold Santa Claus and all the reindeer?
Somebody has to eventually tell these people that the tooth fairy doesn't exist....and that the bible is not a literal interpretation of the world around us.
Leviticus From New Zealand, joined Oct 2007, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 20 hours ago) and read 1844 times:
I still do not see what the big deal is, so far no one have yet proved otherwise right ?
25 777236ER: Leviticus, it's the idea that the government supports the ideas of a Christian group - and carbon dating pretty much shows the canyon has been around
26 Boeing7E7: There have probably been "great floods" in many parts of the world as water bodies have formed over the years, to include the Grand Canyon region. Of
27 L-188: Ok guys, real story. The great flood that created the grand canyon, was caused when I had to pee after a bender.
28 Learpilot: L-188, Your story's more believable than it being created by "Noah's Flood".
29 L-188: Well I did have a lot of beer that night. And I am a god
30 Qb001: I still do not see what the big deal is, so far no one have yet proved otherwise right ? Quick lesson in scientific philosophy, or epistemology if you
31 Galaxy5: so fucking what, Geez, im sure there are plenty of books for sale there that also claim the Grand canyon was created through natural occurances of ear
32 Vafi88: And this creature is the President of the US of America, the world´s greatest nation? That's what a lot of Americans are saying! I can't believe we a
33 L.1011: Look, I could just barely be called a Christian. I believe in God and Jesus and such, but I'm not a member of an organized religion (renounced Roman C
34 Leviticus: 777236ER, Well some groups also say that carbon dating does not work (hence show huge numbers) because of the flood ! I am not saying that it is that
35 Qb001: am not saying that it is that way, just that none of you can prove that any of the parties in this issue is completely correct. To say this, when the
36 Qb001: But, even if I find the Creationists absolutely clueless, I'll defend their right to say what they please. But putting it in a national park bookstore
37 Tbar220: Qb, Scary? Dude, I think you need to get your priorities straightened out, as dumb as this is, does it seriously scare you? Loosen up a little, and if
38 Qb001: does it seriously scare you Not in the sense that I lose sleep at night. But it does take me aback sometimes, big time. A top aide to GWB recently con
39 777236ER: Well some groups also say that carbon dating does not work (hence show huge numbers) because of the flood ! I am not saying that it is that way, just
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