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Is Anyone Here Still Undecided?  
User currently offlineDl021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1591 times:

I am just curious. This forum seems to be pretty polarized, like the US, but because of the international nature of this forum it certainly leans to what most in the US would call the left.

I am wondering if there is anyone here who is still not yet decided, and what factors are weighing on your mind? What do you need to see or understand before you can make your decision.

Is there anything that would change your mind either way?

I'd like to hear from those who can vote and those who cannot. US as well as everywhere else.

Or are we all already set in stone?


Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6875 posts, RR: 34
Reply 1, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1564 times:

I'm no longer undecided, but I have honestly struggled within myself on this election.

I've battled with the "lesser of two evils" construct for too long, as have many Americans, and I also realize the stakes of this election.

I am choosing to vote my conscience, however.

And I also admit that that decision is made easier by the fact that I already know which way my state will go electorally.


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1527 times:

Nope.

Only Bill O'Reilly is.



User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5644 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1505 times:

While I'm leaning toward one candidate, I haven't completely made up my mind and still might switch. So I guess you could call me undecided.


"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlineCommander_Rabb From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 771 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1503 times:

Not having your mind made up makes you look very silly in my opinion.

The candidates are clear on the issues. Why so hard to decide?

BUSH by 3 points. Decided points!






User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5644 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1489 times:

Not having your mind made up makes you look very silly in my opinion.
The candidates are clear on the issues. Why so hard to decide?


Because I agree with Bush on some issues and with Kerry on some other issues.



"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlineN670UW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1605 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1478 times:

Not having your mind made up makes you look very silly in my opinion.

No, it makes one an informed voter. Taking the time to study and analyze each candidate is the best thing a voter can do.

Those who choose candidates based on party lines (like you) are the ones who look silly.



N670UW

[Edited 2004-10-23 02:36:49]

User currently offlineCommander_Rabb From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 771 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1468 times:

The two candidates are so diametrically opposed. It's an easy choice. IMHO.

Go figure it out a get back to us....you have 11 days.  Smile


User currently offlineN670UW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1605 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1460 times:

Go figure it out a get back to us....you have 11 days.

I'm not undecided. Just stating those who are undecided aren't 'silly', as you assert.




670


User currently offlineKYIPpilot From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1383 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1458 times:

Those who choose candidates based on party lines (like you) are the ones who look silly.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

And no, I am not undecided.



"It starts when you're always afraid; You step out of line, the man come and take you away" -Buffalo Springfield
User currently offlineCommander_Rabb From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 771 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1454 times:

My opinion is that if you have not figured it out yet...you look silly in my eyes. But hey...that doesn't make you a bad person.

As I said... IMHO.
Remember....you have 11 days! Hurry!


User currently offlineDl021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 11, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1429 times:

What issues do you agree with President BUsh on and which ones with Senator Kerry?

There are real differences, and while my mind is pretty much set, I certainly understand about October surprises...I wonder if one is in store for us.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineNonrevman From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1302 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1402 times:

I am still undecided and agree that this is really a choice between the lesser of two evils. I too agree think Bush is right on some issues while Kerry is right about others. Therefore, like many Americans, my vote will go towards what I think will cause the least amount of damage.

I also am in the same situation Slider is in. It is a foregone conclusion that my state (Texas) will lean to one candidate (Bush). If you really want your vote to matter this time around, you need to live in one of those battleground states.


User currently offlineN317AS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1384 times:

I can't decide whether to vote for Bush, or not vote at all. But no way in hell can I vote for Kerry. Why:

Vietnam
His return from Vietnam
His tour of the Senate (useless)
I have a plan. (what is it)
I have a better plan than Dubya. (what is it)
His wife (First ladies need at least an ounce of class)
Pretty boy John (not just a wanna be model, but a lawyer on top of it)

Nonrevman,

"my vote will go towards what I think will cause the least amount of damage"

Are you talking least amount of damage in the US or abroad?


User currently offlineCorpsnerd09 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (10 years 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1346 times:

www.johnkerry.com
www.georgewbush.com

These are their official sites. The plans are outlined there (what is it? read and find out), you can read both of them.

I was undecided, but after looking both issues, John Kerry presented himself best to me. Of course, I have traditionally been left (this is the first election where I can vote, though), but Bush seems way too right winged for me. Plus, I hate how he acts sometimes and it's not just when he's absent minded. His comments have angered me many times.



If you really want to do it, you will find a way; if you don't, you'll make excuses.
User currently offlineDl021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 15, posted (10 years 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1298 times:

Here are my basic issues with Kerry.

He has brought shame upon himself and his comrades in arms by his behaviour after his premature return from Vietnam. People can argue all they want about his tour of service. I have heard from his gunner that he was less than he made himself out to be, I have heard from the SF NCO he rescued he is a hero. He may have been both, but I was not there, and he went regardless of his motivation. What he did afterward by meeting with the Vietnamese outside of government sanction lent aid and comfort to our enemies at a time of war, and that is treason if anything is. His stories about war crimes (which if true should have seen him in LEavenworth or worse) did cause harm to our side and brought further injury to our POWs while in captivity. I am certainly not about to call a group of POWs liars if they say that his words were thrown in their faces while being tortured by their captors. I have also heard from many anti-war activists that the POWs were war criminals and deserved what they got. This puts Kerry and his supporters ON THIS ISSUE (read that) in very bad boat (no pun intended).

He has a tax plan that says only people or couples making over $200k will have their taxes raised. Well there are alot of people who are middle class business owners, myself included, in that boat. We are the ones who support the consumer based economy in this country because we are the ones who employ most of the citizenry as well as spend the most money on consimer goods. Take our income away and there will be less hiring and less spending. The economy will go down. THe bubble that supported a huge number of BS jobs in the IT sector, those 60K jobs that people could not really describe to me what they did when they came to me looking for work in 2000 and 2001, is gone and we are better off for it. The new jobs are real and not based on IPO money or wishes.

Plus what Kerry proposes in terms of programs will cost more than the expected return from the tax cut rollbacks he proposes to demand. WHere will this money come from? Simple, he will demand higher taxes on everyone making over $150k, then $100k. Its easy to get these if he plays the class warfare card. People who have the $500 a week jobs often do not see what has gone into the creation of the business where they work. I know this for a fact, as I used to be minimum wage, and now own a business where I have a varied work force. I have seen both ends, and I just had to have a conversation with an employee who thought that I was loaded and could well afford to give him an advance to pay for satellite tv. He did not understand about payroll and other expenses. He was also trying to explain to me why he wants to vote for Kerry. "He'll get us stuff!, like free insurance". Nothing is free and it will come from somewhere, and inevitably trickle down to the lowest common denominator.

Kerry also cannot seem to help talking down to people and cannot give a straight answer. He votes and speaks only after considering the direction of the political wind and then later slick talks his way out of whatever foolishness he has gotten himself into.

Kerry's senate record is less than distinguished. He has gotten very little done, and the support he has among Dems is mostly the 'anyone-but-Bush' crowd,

President Bush and his team has irritated me by their failure to communicate well with the American people, and by their missteps in handling the run-up to the war. There were plenty of ways to show how the Iraqis were a problem to be dealt with without relying so heavily on the WMD possession. I have no doubt that there are WMDs somewhere, or else why would Hussein have spent so much time moving papers and files, hiding the mobile labs (which were found cleaned to the metal, why so clean?). We should have said that he either has them or is planning to get them again and the resolve of the UN is faltering to the point that our own allies are setting up contracts with them. The inability to craft the message, which was admittedly not helped by a hostile world press was very frustrating.

President Bush and his team also do not seem to learn from their communication missteps and take the initiative after things happen.

Bush's advisors did not set up the post Iraq situation as well as could have been done. Hindsight is 20/20, but this is the point of the debate where I would have said, "Yes, we did...I did, because the buck stops here, make a mistake in not forcefully enough stating my case to our allies that a free Iraq is worht fighting for and if they want this they need to help us make it work. THe invasion is over, come on in and help. If you don't do this our politically aware adversaries will snipe and strike at us constantly in an effort to wear us down. COme in and bring your military, police, and other aid to help rebuild this country and show the people here how a truly free world will come to their aid in their moment of need to help them achieve their liberty and democratic franchise. Put our past differences behind us and work for this honorable goal. We can discuss our differences and settle our disputes elsewhere, but here and now we are at a crossroads. Lets do the right thing, and defeat the forces of tyranny and oppression." IF directly appealed to to the people of Europe and their governments we would have more than what we have now, which is 2/3ds of the governments of Europe activley participating in the effort, some to the point of taking casualties. We could have swayed some of the media to our side and increased public support for our cause, while decreasing hope for the terrorists." Thats what I would have said.

President Bush, while an honorable man, is not the worlds greatest complex orator. He is a man who communicates well to crowds in person, but he does not always make the best public image. He is not stupid as so many wish to think he is, but he is not as polished as some lawyers who learn to argue both sides of a case can be. I like Bush's fault here better than I like Kerrys ability to forcefully argue both sides of any topic, however.

With the pros and cons I see, I am supporting President Bush again, because he is right about most of what has been happening, economically and militarily, and Kerry has been two faced and acted dishonorably in a politically opportunistic way that reflects on a basic character flaw I do not wish to see in a man who is our President.




Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineCorpsnerd09 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 years 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1265 times:

Maybe you can trade in that PanAm ticket for a Virgin Rockets one.  Big grin

Nice observations, I can see you have at least looked at the issues and picked a side on who thinks like you, and will benefit you most.

EDIT: Bring back spellcheck soon... please.

[Edited 2004-10-24 01:35:41]


If you really want to do it, you will find a way; if you don't, you'll make excuses.
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (10 years 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1251 times:

I am choosing to vote my conscience, however.

And I also admit that that decision is made easier by the fact that I already know which way my state will go electorally.


Then perhaps you're not voting your conscience, as you say, but just voting to "go along with the crowd", perhaps?

Not saying it's the case, but it can be interpreted as such.


User currently offlineDl021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 18, posted (10 years 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1239 times:

Corpsnerd.
I already signed up to be on the notification list. I might not be on the first round of trips, but I am going into space. My wife says I spend two thirds of my time there already.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Falcon.
I got an im from a fellow anutter today who told me he had sent his absentee ballot in today, but wondered if he was pissing up a rope due to the fact that his home state was leaning the other direction as his candidate. I hope everyone knows that when its this close every vote will count, and that the polls prior to the election mean nothing compared to the polls we will enter on Nov.2.

I kind of wish I was voting in one of the swing states, because I could get more involved. I will be volunteering for my guy here at home, and have sent money elsewhere. Everyone who understands the issues should get involved here.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineCorpsnerd09 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (10 years 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1212 times:

Ack... to tell you the truth i'm afraid of space.

Though, I wouldn't mind living in a cowboy bebop type world.

Maybe it's just realizing that going into space can one day be real. but cowboy bebop will forever be a fantasy.



If you really want to do it, you will find a way; if you don't, you'll make excuses.
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