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Abu Ghraib : One Rape Case Is Confirmed  
User currently offlineQb001 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2053 posts, RR: 4
Posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1937 times:

In this thread, I reported that what took place at Abu Ghraib was apparently much worst than what was reported by the press in general.

After a legal battle, the ACLU has finally obtained many new files from the Pentagon, but not all of those they wanted. Those new files document the fact that, indeed, things were much more worst than reported.

For example, at least (at worst?), the rape of a juvenile Iraqi prisoner is documented.

The real question though is this: who is the real responsible for that scandal ? Rumsfell ? Cheney ? Bush himself ?

http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=16864&c=206



Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN771AN From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1923 times:

The real question though is this: who is the real responsible for that scandal ? Rumsfell ? Cheney ? Bush himself ?

How about the soldier that raped the girl?


User currently offlineCaptoveur From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1905 times:

I am sure the order came down from the highest authority to rape prisoners... puhlease

Soldiers break the law all the time, that is why the Judge Advocate General exists.. bring the asshole on charges and see what sticks.


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1909 times:

I think the general mood after 9-11 to get´m bastards could have given some less bright patriotic individuals a feeling they somehow had the right to pay´m back.. and who was responsible for 9-11-Iraq linking, stating everybody not for us is against us.. well history will tell..



User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29786 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1805 times:

Yawwwnnn get a life.

Go whine to all those people those muslims have killed.

BTW you do realize that some of the terrorists that we released from Gitmo are turning up back in circulation now?

How many more people will they kill.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5651 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1796 times:

L-188,
too bad you weren't born some 60 years ealier... you'd make a great defense lawyer at the Nuremberg trial - excusing unexcusable.

BTW you do realize that some of the terrorists that we released from Gitmo are turning up back in circulation now?

No wonder, after such treatment!


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1724 times:

Nothing like racial stereotyping from L-188. I think he'd justify any action in Guantanamo or Abu Ghraib - as long as it was done to darkies.

User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29786 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1697 times:

Cute 777236ER

Fact is the way that the European and Arab media has been reporting this, you would think that this was the worst thing any military personel did do and that those responsible wheren't getting nailed for it.

Which is BS.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineWing From Turkey, joined Oct 2000, 1559 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1678 times:

Yawwwnnn get a life.

Go whine to all those people those muslims have killed.


L-188,

You sound like you are putting all the Muslims on the same side just because the terrorist hit the USA were Muslims.Your sentence is very wrong.
As nobody can call all the Christians as "Rapist" as the US soldier did in this case nobody can use my religion in the same sentence with terror.

There has been a very bad terror act in your country at 9/11 we-Muslims- all shared the the pain in our hearts also and syphatised you.But Iraq is a different story.The USA were there to free those people but instead they kill hundreds of them everyday,torture them and rape them?This is bad but the worse is you see this as normal since they are Muslims.Not Americans.

Its really funny after all you guys don't understand why so many people start not liking you everyday.Every action has an equal and opposite reaction and its not only in pyhsics in the life too.




Widen your world
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29786 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1678 times:

The USA were there to free those people but instead they kill hundreds of them everyday,torture them and rape them?

Wing, the US military does not kill rape and torture 100's of people everyday.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13942 posts, RR: 63
Reply 10, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1656 times:

L-188,

With the US to moral superiority, even ONE incident is one too much. Don´t you see how each and every incident damages the credibility of the US forces in Iraq, especially if they are behaving like looting "Landsknechte" of the 30 year war? There have been also reports (also confirmed by Hack´s site) about incidents of American soldiers stealing valuables during searches of Iraqi homes.
Every incident like this pisses the population more off and creates more insurgents, epsecially in a culture like the Islamic one, where virginity is extremely important. You can bet that this soldier will have ALL the girls male family members against him and he´ll be lucky if they don´t catch up with him. Every incident like this gives the insurgents more propaganda material and sets back the American mission by months.
This idiot will be the reason for more bodybags coming back from Iraq.

If I were the commander, instead of covering the sh*t up, I would make an example of the first soldier being caught in such a crime and make sure he will get the maximum sentence (if not handed over to an Iraqi court), highly visible to anybody.
At the same time I would offer a legal outlet for the soldier´s hormone level, and not ,like I read in Spiegel two weeks ago, make it illegal for American soldiers to visit prostitutes.

I remember the hand picked cold war Berlin Brigade soldiers. Back then the US military really wanted to give a good impression and not some trigger happy idiot to start WW2 by e.g. shooting at Russian soldiers.

Jan


User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1641 times:

I have to agree with MD11Engineer on this. one incident is too many, particularly in the case of rape. The military should come down hard, fast and publicly on any soldier that breaks the rules like that.

That said, it is also true that a number of people captured in Afghanistan and Iraq who were later freed from Gitmo and Abu Graib (because of pressure from "human rights" groups and countries sympathetic to terrorists and rogue nations) have been confirmed to have restarted their terrorist activities. One former Gitmo inmate has been confirmed as directly responsible for at least a dozen deaths in Iraq.

If these "human rights" fans want them to be treated as prisoners of war under the Geneva Convention, I say fine. That means that the U.S. can hold them in custody until the war is over, without the need for a trial for each one, and since this war on terror won't be over for at least 40 or 50 years, I'm all for it.

Charles


User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 12, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1635 times:

That makes Abu Ghraib the safest prison in the entire world. Think of it - only one rape!



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineQb001 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2053 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1584 times:

That makes Abu Ghraib the safest prison in the entire world. Think of it - only one rape!

So far. I sincerely hope it remains at that level, only one rape (of a juvenile man BTW, contrary to what's been written in reply #1).

But I'm not that optimistic. I'm afraid many more crimes are yet to be revealed.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16239 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1547 times:

What's incredible is that Qb001 feels the need to start a thread on one US rape of an Iraqi girl, and yet was completely quiet about the dozens or hundreds of rapes by Saddam Hussein's son Udal. Or the thousands committed by Iraqi soldiers of Iraqi women.

Is this just another anti-American thread? If not, why does one US rape of an Iraqi girl (as bad as it is) warrrant more attention that Iraqi's raping Iraqi girls? A reasonable pair of questions.....




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29786 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1482 times:

I don't disagree with the one is too many comments either.

What I also disagree with is the constant leftist claims about how US troops are these evil stormtroopers in kahootze with Darth Bush.

Slamclick, That makes Abu Ghraib the safest prison in the entire world. Think of it - only one rape!

Yeah, and a hetrosexual one at that  Wow!



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineWing From Turkey, joined Oct 2000, 1559 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1446 times:

yyz717,

Saddam's son Uday's rapes are no better than US soldier's but there is a difference.US soldiers are there to help those people not to harm them.

An Iraqi raping and Iraqi girl(as bad as it is) is a domestic crime,A soldier raping a prisoner girl is a human rights violation as well as being a crime.

Wing, the US military does not kill rape and torture 100's of people everyday

You don't think Abu Garib is a name for a holiday village do you?It had its fame with tortured and abused prisoners by the US soldiers.Pictures of it were everywhere don't you remember?

All of other American member friends,

Please stop naming every criticisizm as anti American.I am not anti-anything or anybody but I feel US-Iraq war is wrong with all aspects from the beginning till now.Ofcourse I can understand the patriotism but flaming everybody when a US citizen dies and ignoring the pain of others doesn't look sympathic at all.




Widen your world
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29786 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1444 times:

Saddam's son Uday's rapes are no better than US soldier's but there is a difference.US soldiers are there to help those people not to harm them

Respectfully....Bull.....the difference is that there was no way Uday was going to jail for what he was up to.

,A soldier raping a prisoner girl is a human rights violation as well as being a crime.

Sorry but that isn't a legitmate difference.

Both are the same.

Like I said the only difference is that the US is actually going to prosecute those responisble. Something the international media is very remissed in it's responsiblity to report.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineNWA742 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1440 times:

Somehow I knew that somebody would mention Bush as the one to be blamed.

 Insane


Hmmm.......weather looks sticky/muggy tomorrow.........damnit Bush.



-NWA742


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13942 posts, RR: 63
Reply 19, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1390 times:

If I were the father/brother/boyfriend/husband of this girl, and I didn´t see any justice coming from the American side, I´d get myself a Dragunov SVD sniper rifle, plenty of ammo and a home made ghillie suit and I´d be hidden in bushes or behind walls a few hundred yards from where American troops are patrolling or moving, and I´d take pot shots at them, just one single, hard to detect shot and I´d be gone. I´d do everything in my power to kill those pigs.
Guys, the American troops went intoIraq, stating that they were moraly superior to Saddam Hussein and your president stated that he sent troops in to liberate the population.
Any incident of this kind is contraproductive
This soldier should be executed not only for the rape but also for aiding the enemy.

Jan
Jan


User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2234 posts, RR: 19
Reply 20, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1377 times:

If I were the father/brother/boyfriend/husband of this girl, and I didn´t see any justice coming from the American side, I´d get myself a Dragunov SVD sniper rifle, plenty of ammo and a home made ghillie suit and I´d be hidden in bushes or behind walls a few hundred yards from where American troops are patrolling or moving, and I´d take pot shots at them, just one single, hard to detect shot and I´d be gone. I´d do everything in my power to kill those pigs.

Would you do the same if a German policemen/soldier would rape your loved one in Germany? A few US soldiers that broke the law do not represent the entire army. Taking justice into your own hands is never acceptable in a civilized society.

This soldier should be executed
I can see that you are pro-capital punishment. In your opinion, should the EU practice it as well?




2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 21, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1379 times:

MD11Engineer you wrote:"If I were the father/brother/boyfriend/husband of this girl, and I didn´t see any justice coming from the American side, I´d get myself a Dragunov SVD sniper rifle, plenty of ammo and a home made ghillie suit and I´d be hidden in bushes or behind walls a few hundred yards from where American troops are patrolling or moving, and I´d take pot shots at them, just one single, hard to detect shot and I´d be gone. I´d do everything in my power to kill those pigs.
"

Thank you very much for coming out.

That is exactly, precisely, the terrorist mindset. Because someone was raped by the individual assigned to guard or interrogate them, you would murder, from hiding, other people who have nothing whatever to do with the crime. You would murder them for the offense of being from the same nation as the perpetrator. That is called bigotry. That is the mindset, the attitude that permitted Saddam to gas Kurds and you-know-who to operate death camps in "the east."

From this day forward, anyone who reads what you post can do so with the knowledge that you would be a terrorist and a murderer if you had the balls. They know because you said so. You didn't hint at it. You did not imply it. You did not make statements that might lead one to believe that. You came right out and said so.

Again, thanks.

For the more reasonable out there, of course the person who commited the crime will be prosecuted. They will be prosecuted under whatever set of laws apply to their conduct, probably the US UCMJ. The penalty was set long before the perpetrator or the victim were born and certainly long before this conflict was begun. That is as it should be. If your idea of "justice" is having a hundred Americans beheaded with a pocket knife, well, we know we are not going to please you anyway.





Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29786 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1371 times:

Well it is definately a pure revenge mindset.

However SlamClick, I do note that MD11 is putting it up as a last act of desparation.

Which is why I hope to hell that the Arab media is actually broadcasting the convictions and or pleas as they happen. That way it shows that the US is attacking the problem and jailing the perps.

But I suspect that isn't happening, and even though the US is aggressivly pursuing the appropriate legal remedies, the masses in Iraq that where agreived by it have not a clue, and thus arrive at the point that MD11 described.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13942 posts, RR: 63
Reply 23, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1352 times:

LY7E7, L-188, slamclick,

Maybe I didn´t express myself correctly, but I tried to get myself into the mindset of the locals in Iraq, of Arabs of lesser education as I´ve met them here. If they don´t see immideate justice coming from the American authorities, they WILL take matters into their own hands, and ANY American soldier will be free game. For them having a girl loose possibly her virginity like this means an insult to the family´s honour, which (I´ve seen it here with Turks from rural places) can only be avenged by killing the perpetrator.

I wanted to show what the results of this particular soldier´s action can be, because all I heard here were remarks like " well, Uday raped hundreds, so it´s not so bad if one soldier of ours rapes one girl...".

Slamclick,
Concerning your remark about a jail with only a single case of rape, mind that thuis rape was commited by a guard, not by a fellow prisoner.

At the same time I was thinking of an order of the soviet Field Marshall, I think it was Rossokowsky, of the 1st Belorussioan front, when he was shocked about the results of the hate propaganda Russian soldiers were exposed to (mass rapes, revenge killings), that he ordered any Russian soldier caught raping to be executed on the spot. I know that several Soviet soldiers caught raping or looting were shot by their officers, at least in Berlin.
One thing why Western troops were soon accepted in Germany as liberators was due to the mostly correct behaviour of the troops (with crimes being swiftly punished).

Guys, many of you seem to have a revenge mindset against the whole middle eastern world (with the exception of Israel), an attitude that you´ve got to kick enough arse and the population will submit. Don´t expect this to happen. The only way to get peace there would be through a serious case of nation building.


Jan

[Edited 2004-10-24 17:58:55]

User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29786 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1346 times:

Oh I don't doubt you are in the mindset.


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
25 MD11Engineer : L-188, When there is no perceived justice, people will take the law in their own hands. I´ve had this happen to my first Ex´s family in the Philippi
26 SlamClick : Okay, I guess I'll get flamed for this but here goes . . . To begin with, it is their country and I wish to goodness that we never went there but . .
27 Post contains images AA777 : Yawwwnnn get a life. Go whine to all those people those muslims have killed. You are a bigot. I am almost speechless. I dont know where you are from,
28 SlamClick : AA777 Whom are you addessing with the first part of your post. You make it difficult for people to respond when you just hurl in that fashion.
29 AA777 : I was responding to L-188.... that was from his first post.. -AA777
30 SlamClick : Okay, AA777 thanks. But I wonder if you see the irony of your statements "I dont know where you are from, maybe the deep south where strong racism sti
31 AA777 : I was not commenting on what the Army should do in its war plan. Bush led this nation into war into Iraq w/o a war plan, and now we are seeing the res
32 Jamesag96 : The guy that did it should be strung up by his nuts. Interesting though that this isn't put in perspective...
33 Falcon84 : The guy that did it should be strung up by his nuts. Interesting though that this isn't put in perspective... Personally, I think that first sentence
34 Jamesag96 : "Go one further-cut his nuts off." While a good idea...the ACLU or some other pussified rights group would never let that happen.
35 Falcon84 : You come up with a good post, then you act like a damn fool in the next one. Unbelievable.[Edited 2004-10-25 05:38:27]
36 Jamesag96 : "then you act like a damn fool in the next won" What did I win? All too many times, and even you can't...or rather shouldn't deny this, some fuckle do
37 Post contains images Falcon84 : What did I win? ROTFL. I had just IM'd a friend saying the Red Sox had won, and that's what I put. Good eye, James! It's been corrected.
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