Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Three Gorges Dam In China  
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Posted (9 years 9 months 5 days ago) and read 1307 times:

I was wondering what all you A.netter's opinion is over the Three Gorges Dam that has been under construction since 1994 on the Yangtze River in the famous Three Gorges region?

It will be the biggest dam in the world and will create the biggest man-made lake ever. Despite this, it has recieved a lot of criticism from the world and lots of controversy.

What are your thoughts about this dam?

Regards


"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCorpsnerd09 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 9 months 5 days ago) and read 1285 times:

It will destroy the beautiful eco-system and forest in the place where the "man-made lake" will be made.

At least, that's what I heard.



If you really want to do it, you will find a way; if you don't, you'll make excuses.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (9 years 9 months 5 days ago) and read 1282 times:

A lot of historical stes from Chinese Dynasty history are being drowned.

Just like when the Aswan High Dam in Egypt was built.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (9 years 9 months 5 days ago) and read 1277 times:

thanks.

I supposed that I could have punted and credited the quote to Drerrick Tatum



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1264 times:

It will destroy the beautiful eco-system and forest in the place where the "man-made lake" will be made.

A lot of historical stes from Chinese Dynasty history are being drowned.

Indeed. 10,000 years of history gone forever, one of the most beautiful scenic sights in China and in the world, all gone.

A major concern for me is the fact that 2 million people are going to be displaced.

I think the fact that they are building entire new cities on the hills above the current cities that are going to be flooded is just insane.

Also the Yangtze river is very rich in silt. Just imagine the siltation problems that will be faced...

Just like when the Aswan High Dam in Egypt was built.

Indeed. At least they were able to save some important archaeological sites such as Abu Simbel.

Overall though, I'd say the Aswan High Dam was a good thing. Some say Egypt would be like Ethiopia now with widespread hunger and famine. Lake Nasser is able to provide irrigation to lots of areas in Egypt for farming.

China is building the dam for three reasons, hydroelectric power,

Many say there are other more practical and less costly ways to help control floods and other ways to generate clean electricity that reduces air pollution.

Regards




"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1258 times:

True BA

However getting back to the silt issue, despite the distace from the Nile Delta, the Aswan Dam is blamed for the fact that the delta, a very traditional and historic farming area is washing away.

No silt is making it down to replenish what the med washes away.

Same thing is happening on the Mississippi Delta.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1254 times:

However getting back to the silt issue, despite the distace from the Nile Delta, the Aswan Dam is blamed for the fact that the delta, a very traditional and historic farming area is washing away.

Indeed, this is very true I'm afraid.

No silt is making it down to replenish what the med washes away.

Exactly. There are some who have been proposing somehow transfering the silt that gets stuck behind the dam to the other side of dam so that the river carries it away, but it's probably difficult to do and expensive.

Same thing is happening on the Mississippi Delta.

I read an article about this recently. About how New Orleans may be washed away and sink one day.

In addition to the silt problem with the Mississippi Delta, excessive construction along the Delta has blocked moisture from reaching the silt and is causing it to become powdery which is causing it to be washed away much more easily.

I think Lake Powell and the Glen Canyon Dam is another example of problems that dams create. The Colorado River no longer flows into the Gulf of California. The Hoover Dam is also responsible for this.

Speaking of the Colorado River not flowing into the Gulf of California, what has Mexico's reaction been towards this?

So while dams do wonders in water supply and electricity, they greatly effect the environment along the river.

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1248 times:

And then you have the whole Bonneville power project in the Northwest. There is a big effort to remove Colombia River Dams to restore fishing runs


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 8, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1243 times:

Interesting. I visited the Columbia river region 3 years ago and had a blast. It is quite nice.

I remember hearing about the fishing problems caused by the dams too on a tour we took.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1222 times:

Don't forget the many households that have been relocated by the project... lots of Chinese citizens have been displaced from their ancestral farms.

N


User currently offlineJumboJet From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1213 times:

Whether or not to build the dam was put to a vote in 7 provinces in China. Of the 7 provinces allowed to vote, all 7 would receive power from the new dam but 3 of those provinces would also encounter huge flooding and would need to relocate many of its residence.

Surprise surprise they voted 4:3 in favour of building the dam (the 3 voting against being those provinces that would be flooded). That's Chinese democracy for you I guess.

Generally I think renewable energy sources are good and should be promoted. However in this case mny people had to be relocated and much land, towns and cities destroyed.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1206 times:

Yeah BA.

My uncle is on one of the estuaries near the mouth. He sponsers some net pens for Orgeons Fish and Game department....whatever they call themselves.

They set up the pens and stock fingerling fish in it to group up to smelt size before release.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 12, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1171 times:

Renewable energy sources are good.

And, as a result of that axiom, China has commissioned the construction of nearly 300 pebble bed reactors.

Pebble bed reactors are the single safest and cleanest form of high-energy production available, they can be spun up quickly, and are extremely low cost.

That aside, they require nobody to be moved or any lands to be destroyed.

N


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13968 posts, RR: 63
Reply 13, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1164 times:

I wonder if China wouldn´t have been better served with a series of smaller dams in the tributaries to the Yangtse river, maybe 20-30 smaller dams, instead of one huge one.
AFAIK, the Yangtse is one of the most silt rich rivers in the world, so in a few years the basin could silt up, the way the Aswan lake does. Smaller dams would be easier to maintain and to dredge.
But on the other hand, former Chinese Prime minister Li Peng (the one responsible for the Tienamen square massacre) is a civil engineer by profession (before becoming prime minister he was in the energy resort), so he probably considers the dam to be a monument of himself, the largest dam in the world...  Yeah sure

Jan


User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7760 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1153 times:

An interesting side-effect of the construction of the Three Gorges Dam is the rise in price of concrete globally. Apparently some of the components needed to make concrete are relatively rare and not widely supplied. This has affected the availability of concrete worldwide. In my dad's conversations with the construction foreman in his subdivision, which is still under construction, because of the shortages they are only able to pour foundations/slabs 2 or 3 days of the week now. This has resulted in waiting lists for people who want to sign contracts to build a new home. Which benefits the existing homeowners who have seen the value of their homes jump considerably since they built.


But back to the dam. While it is a technical and engineering marvel I am concerned about the human aspect. Something like 2 million people had to be relocated... and I doubt that the Chinese government paid anywhere near fair market value for that property. Like MD11 said there might have been other, less expensive solutions available to control flooding on the Yangtze and provide power.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1123 times:

Yup Desertjets.

BTW: How is your forman dealing with the price of a 2x4 these days...sheesh $3.45.

A lot of people are believing the war on terror is to blame for that.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineRedngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 45
Reply 16, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1111 times:

Some website references for those of you who'd like to learn more:

Pro:
http://www.chinaonline.com/refer/ministry_profiles/threegorgesdam.asp

Anti:
http://www.irn.org/programs/threeg/
http://www.threegorgesprobe.org/tgp/index.cfm


redngold



Up, up and away!
User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1107 times:

There are downsides of all human activity, this dam provides electricity and a possibility to controll nature (flooding along the river has been a major problem), creates jobs and a lake that you can ship larger ships on.
Lot of downsides as well, one interesting thing about the dam when it´s full
is that it´ll affect the earth rotations, so for example GPS has to be recalculated...


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13968 posts, RR: 63
Reply 18, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1104 times:

Desertjets,

The problem with concrete getting more expensive can come through the high oil prices.
Concrete is a mix of sand, cement and water. The cement acts as a glue to bond the sand grains together. The water acts as a reactant.
To make cement (Portland cement, the most widely used variant, there are others), you´ll take limestone and dry clay and pulverise them to dust in huge mills. These components get mixed in a special ratio and almost molten in a huge rotating pipe kiln (typically 3 to 5 yards diametre, up to 100 yards long. This kiln is usually fired with oil (coal dust and waste oils have been used in the past as well). There the components loose the water bonded into the cristalls and melt together. After cooling, the resultant lumps are groundto dust again, resulting in cement.
You see, there is quite a bit of energy involved in making cement.

Jan


User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7760 posts, RR: 16
Reply 19, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days ago) and read 1084 times:

MD11 -- I am sure that increased energy costs are also responsible for the increase in the price of concrete. But what the construction foreman mentioned to my father was that they simply are not able to pour foundations and slabs each and everyday due to supply constraints. Given that there are now waiting lists to write contracts for new houses the demand is more than there.

Given the scale of the 3 Gorges Project the market for the raw materials, I believe the limestone in particular, is on a global scale. So the guys pouring foundations for new houses in Phoenix are finding their ability to fill demand impacted.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8443 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1064 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

MD11 Engineer you forgot an important ingredient that separates mortar (what you described) and concrete: the stone, or aggregate.


After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Domestic Travel In China posted Mon Nov 6 2006 18:41:38 by Flpuck6
Three Firefighters Die In California Wildfire posted Thu Oct 26 2006 21:53:20 by AsstChiefMark
Dr. Stephen Hawking Wows Fans In China posted Thu Jun 22 2006 16:42:32 by AerospaceFan
What To Visit In China? posted Sat Jun 3 2006 17:35:50 by Runway23
Technology In China posted Tue Feb 21 2006 02:22:49 by Cragley
Two-headed Lamb Born In China posted Wed Jan 26 2005 16:16:33 by Thecoz
Hooters Opens In China posted Fri Oct 22 2004 22:33:52 by N771AN
Dr. Martens Made In China? posted Wed Dec 10 2003 22:44:25 by Commander_Rabb
Laws In China posted Wed Sep 18 2002 22:56:30 by American_4275
Food Poisoning In China Kills 200+ posted Sun Sep 15 2002 23:43:10 by Bigo747