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Gay Rights In America  
User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3132 times:

I have several questions and would appreciate some answers rather than a debate........

How are civil unions working out in Vermont? What happens when those couples pay taxes to the Federal Government?

What is currently happening in Mass.? I've totally lost track of the debate there so what is the status? And again, what happens when they pay federal taxes in April?

What is stopping more states from legalizing civil unions? What would it take for it to happen? Why isn't it happening, especially in states like New York or California? Does it have to be the state gov. or can it be a local gov? And do the civil unions give the FULL legal benefits that marriage does, or are there differences?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but all of the states that banned gay marriage could still have civil unions, right?

Why doesn't the Federal Government take care of this once and for all? Why don't they say that they don't support gay marriage but do support equal rights/benefits for gay couples and be done with the debate? What options would a President have for allowing civil unions? Could Bush sign an executive order allowing it, or would it have to come through Congress? Would Congress support a bill that defines marriage as between a man and a woman but allows civil unions? Again, why doesn't Congress do this?

It really pisses me off that everyone makes a fuss over the word "marriage". Call it whatever the hell you want, the debate SHOULDN'T be over the word; Gays should have equal rights though, even if the word isn't "marriage".

I would appreciate any information.........

130 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3105 times:

Why isn't it happening, especially in states like New York or California? Why isn't it happening, especially in states like New York or California?

Civil unions are legal, to a fault, in California. Registered domestic partners in CA are treated muchly like a marriage. Recent expansions, signed into law by the Governator will require registered partners to get a divorce of sorts, and also will merge their assets just like any real marriage. Many partners are unregistering before that happens because it will affect their state-supplied AIDS benefits to have joint income that the government recognizes.

I'm not sure how the federal government recognizes them, if at all. Technically, they have to, since legal relationships are established at a state level. We would need a California gay person or attorney to comment.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but all of the states that banned gay marriage could still have civil unions, right?


You're wrong. Most, but not all, of them banned civil unions in the same fell swoop.

That's why its so horrible. Many of the amendments rolled back existing rights for same sex partners, including previously legal insurance benefits and hospital visitation rights, among others.

This past week saw gay rights get rolled back to Stonewall in 11 states.

Would Congress support a bill that defines marriage as between a man and a woman but allows civil unions? Again, why doesn't Congress do this?


Simple. States' rights. Marriage is a function of state government. Both candidates in this past election supported civil unions, but only if the states wanted them to have them. 16 of 51 jurisdictions have now modified their Constitutions to prevent gay rights. Some still left the door open to unions, some barred them permanently. Virginia, for example, has long since had legislature that bans both.

Further, many of them passed amendments that defeated the fuil faith and credit clause of the Constitution. They don't have to recognize gay marriages or civil unions that are conferred by other states, which is a drastic departure from the way this country has worked since its inception.

Its bigotry. This country has spoken with a unified voice - gay people are not welcome.

N


User currently offlineSccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5487 posts, RR: 28
Reply 2, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3094 times:

First and foremost, legislation such as you have proposed would have to be undertaken by the governments of the various states, not as a federal question. Granting or withholding the legal status of marriage (or any other legal status for that matter) is the subject of state-by-state legislation, and unless a constitutional issue is raised (none here I can see), the feds have no part.


...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3092 times:

"..partners are unregistering before that happens because it will affect their state-supplied AIDS benefits.."

Why should the "State" pay for a gay person's AIDS benefit? Makes no sense to me. Does the "State" pay my dental bill? Would it pay for someone's Cancer Treatments? Dialysis?

That is bull$hit...


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3088 times:

That's because you're a horrible and morally bankrupt person.

Just about every state in the union has an AIDS benefit fund established.

HIV treatment can easily consume every bit your insurance pays plus hundreds of thousands more over your lifetime. Without state benefits, almost nobody would get treated.

Its available for both straight and gay persons.

N


User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3086 times:

Why should the "State" pay for a gay person's AIDS benefit? Makes no sense to me. Does the "State" pay my dental bill? Would it pay for someone's Cancer Treatments? Dialysis?

Jeff, I understand your point, but could we please save it for another thread......


User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3079 times:

Civil unions are legal, to a fault, in California. Registered domestic partners in CA are treated muchly like a marriage. Recent expansions, signed into law by the Governator will require registered partners to get a divorce of sorts, and also will merge their assets just like any real marriage. Many partners are unregistering before that happens because it will affect their state-supplied AIDS benefits to have joint income that the government recognizes.

Wow, I had no clue about this...Do any other states have arrangements like this?

I'm not sure how the federal government recognizes them, if at all. Technically, they have to, since legal relationships are established at a state level. We would need a California gay person or attorney to comment.

Do they get tax benefits that married couples get?

Simple. States' rights. Marriage is a function of state government. Both candidates in this past election supported civil unions, but only if the states wanted them to have them.

And what is wrong with this? Sadly, many states are conservative and not cool with gay rights; these are the same states that weren't (some might say aren't) cool with black rights, etc. But as long as there are states like Vermont and California out there with civil unions, don't you think it's ok?

Its bigotry. This country has spoken with a unified voice - gay people are not welcome.

NO. How has the country spoken with a unified voice?! Banning gay marriage would never pass in many states.......The mere fact that a few states have civil unions is in direct contradiction to your argument that the country has spoken with a unified voice against gays.

[Edited 2004-11-05 05:21:58]

User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3069 times:

"That's because you're a horrible and morally bankrupt person."

Wrong. Under your scenario, I will just be fiscally bankrupt due to someone's indiscretion. You still didn't answer the question why I should pay for any gay person's AIDS benefit, regardless if the state has the fund or not. But I doubt you will come up with a serious answer.




User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 8, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3068 times:

Sadly, many states are conservative and not cool with gay rights; these are the same states that weren't (some might say aren't) cool with black rights, etc.

The federal government forced black rights on all states because it was morally the right thing to do.

The same thing applies to gay rights. Its morally the right thing to do, except that nobody believes that.

Banning gay marriage would never pass in many states..

You're wrong. It would pass in almost every state in the union.

California, despite civil unions, has banned gay marriage. 16 states have.

Trust me, most of the rest of them would given the opportunity.

N


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3065 times:

You still didn't answer the question why I should pay for any gay person's AIDS benefit, regardless if the state has the fund or not.

Yes, I did. My post made it clear. Without state benefits, nobody straight or gay would be able to afford treatment.

I suppose you want them all to die, don't you?

You're basically a third world citizen with no values whatsoever. You're a selfish and evil human being that doesn't deserve the benefits of being an American.

The fundamental values of this country are to help your fellow man.

N


User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3065 times:

Having the Gov't "force" any "right" on anyone is just plain wrong. And the majority of people in the U.S. agree that it is morally wrong.

Did the Gov't take over paying for Black medical problems because they were Black?

Any answer to my other question? Why should I pay for a gay person's AIDS treatment?


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 11, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3050 times:

Having the Gov't "force" any "right" on anyone is just plain wrong.

They forced black rights on people, and the majority of the US agreed that it was wrong.

Do you think that was a mistake?

Your whole argument is crap. The government "forces" your moral view of gay marriage on people. That's fundamentally against the fabric of the country, yet you support it.

Why should I pay for a gay person's AIDS treatment?

Would you pay for a straight person's?

I guess to you, the fact that they would all die without it isn't a reason.

You truly are the lowest form of life. I'm embarrassed to be from the same country as you.

N


User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3045 times:

"The government "forces" your moral view of gay marriage on people."

Wrong, the Gov't just enforced the majority's opinion. It is called a Vote.

"Would you pay for a straight person's?"

No.

"I guess to you, the fact that they would all die without it isn't a reason."

You make choices in your life, some make better then others, but you should pay for the consequences of your own decisions. Don't blame, or force someone else to make up for your poor choice.

I am embarassed that you think everyone should bail you out.



User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3041 times:

JeffM, do you support civil unions for gays?

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 14, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3041 times:

Wrong, the Gov't just enforced the majority's opinion. It is called a Vote.

If you and I have to agree on it, then its not freedom.

You feel the same way about black rights? You keep skipping that part.

Obviously, you do. You think darkies should count as 3/5s a person and have to sit in the back room, right? That's what the majority wanted, right?

You make choices in your life, some make better then others, but you should pay for the consequences of your own decisions

So kids that get it from their parents, or people that get it from transfusions or surgical procedures, or victims of rape deserve to die. That's basically what you're saying.

I am embarassed that you think everyone should bail you out.

I suppose you think the Red Cross is evil, and I bet you don't give a penny to charity, do you now?

Thomas Jefferson implored the people of America to help their fellow man. I guess he meant everyone but you.

N


User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 15, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3040 times:

Would you pay for a straight person's AIDS benefit JeffM?

Heck, would you help anyone with AIDS?



The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 52
Reply 16, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3034 times:

"If you and I have to agree on it, then its not freedom."

But I agree with it.

"You feel the same way about black rights?"

No, Their civil rights as a human should be the same as any other race. Overcompensation I feel is wrong.

"So kids that get it from their parents, or people that get it from transfusions or surgical procedures, or victims of rape deserve to die. That's basically what you're saying."

No, that is what you are implying. Their own insurance should pay for it. Not based on their sexuality alone, as you demand.

"I suppose you think the Red Cross is evil, and I bet you don't give a penny to charity, do you now?"

Wrong once again. I have been giving money from each paycheck for over 25 years to the Combined Federal Campaign. I do not designate any money to the Red Cross though. Lots of others.

"Thomas Jefferson implored the people of America to help their fellow man."

How true. But there are other ways to help then paying your bill.  Big grin

----------

"JeffM, do you support civil unions for gays?"

Sure, why not? They may not like everything that goes along with it, but I see no reason to prevent a legal contract between two people. I would just keep the term "Marriage" for unions between a man and a woman.




User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 17, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3023 times:

But I agree with it.

No you don't. You said that it was ok to force gays not to marry because the majority didn't want it.

If the majority has to agree with it for me to do it, then it isn't freedom.

Their own insurance should pay for it.

You don't read, do you? INSURANCE CAN'T COVER YOUR AIDS TREATMENT COMPLETELY. I said it in several posts.

Unless you're wealthy, you die.

Not based on their sexuality alone, as you demand.

I never said that. Every post I mentioned discussed that the benefit was available for both straights and gays. You were the one that inserted "gay person" in every sentence about AIDS.

You're specifically opposed to benefits for gay people.

I have been giving money from each paycheck for over 25 years

Why? Why would you pay to benefit someone who can't afford something themselves?

They earned their bum rap, right? Let them suffer!!

N

[Edited 2004-11-05 05:55:47]

User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3021 times:

Please stop the back and forth boys......Can anybody else answer some of the original questions in the post?

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 19, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3018 times:

Yes Reese. The whole country hates us, and we deserve no rights.

Does that answer your question?

N


User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 52
Reply 20, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3011 times:

"Why? Why would you pay to benefit someone who can't afford something themselves?"

take the time to look up the Combined Federal Campaign.... My money goes to help many other things other then people's medical bills.

"INSURANCE CAN'T COVER YOUR AIDS TREATMENT COMPLETELY. "

True. Insurance can't cover a lot of things completely, and guess what? Some people die. Unfortunate, but society cannot pay for everything. Be realistic for a change.

"But I agree with it."

Yes, I agree with the majority that do not want gay marriage, a legal union is different.


User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3005 times:

Yes, I agree with the majority that do not want gay marriage, a legal union is different.

What exactly is the difference between marriage and a legal union in your opinion? I'm fine with having legal unions, because in my eyes that is marriage.....What differentiates the two for you?


User currently offlineClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4626 posts, RR: 23
Reply 22, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3004 times:

You could always move if it doesn't suit you...

Rights for people is always going to be a sensitive issue. Some are going to be for it and some are going to be against it.

In time, things will change. A lot has changed from 20 or 30 years ago, and a lot will change in the next 20 or 30 years. Too much change too soon will just cause people to revolt. Gradual change works best.

I know it sometimes seems hard because of what is happening right now, but what is right will come about, even if it does take time.

Trent.




I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8502 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2990 times:

A state ammendment defining marriage as being between a man and a woman passed with a staggering 88% of Mississippi voters voting for it last Tuesday.

User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2987 times:

MD-90, do you support civil unions for gays?

25 Jasepl : You're basically a third world citizen with no values whatsoever. Hey Neil, don't insult us third world citizens!
26 Ejmmsu : For better or for worse, there is almost universal support in the southern states and strong majority support in more moderate states to pass this leg
27 Dtwclipper : I don't want to get married, I don't want special rights, I don't care if the half of the US accepts my life style or not. This is what I do want: If
28 Gigneil : Mississippi was one of the few states that didn't also bar civil unions. Civil unions were banned in even some liberal states, like Oregon and Michiga
29 Dtwclipper : Gigneil: I am convinced that although we lost Prop 2 here in Michigan, it will be proved to be in violation of the federal constitution. In the mean t
30 Gigneil : I don't think you're going to find that to be true. The issue of interpersonal relations is a matter of states' rights. The federal constitution would
31 Jaysit : Your answers: 1. Federal Taxes Partners must file individually as "single" (or "head of household," if qualified) on federal income tax returns. Indiv
32 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : Why should I pay for a gay person's AIDS treatment? Gotta agree with Jeff there Would you pay for a straight person's? No Heck, would you help anyone
33 Ejmmsu : "Too bad you're assuming all homosexuals support gay marriage...." I strongly doubt there is a meaningful portion of the homosexual population that su
34 ConcordeBoy : I strongly doubt there is a meaningful portion of the homosexual population that supports legislation outlawing gay marriage. Sorta like {best Sharpto
35 Dtwclipper : ConcordeBoy: Let us remember that there are thousands of people who are HIV positive that contracted the virus in the early 80's before it was known w
36 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : To deny "innocent" victims assistance is imho inhumane. ...sad for them, I'll admit. Sadly, their plight is incredibly overshadowed Let us also rememb
37 Concord977 : I think it is interesting that Gay activists such as the Human Rights Campaign have been relatively quiet in recent years. In the early 90's, hundreds
38 Gigneil : point being? The point being is that everybody except for you and Jeff M care about the plight of mankind. N
39 ConcordeBoy : ...and that's bad becauseee?
40 Jhooper : I doubt this has anything to do with "defense of marriage". The bottom line is that most Americans are against homosexuality, period. Against gay marr
41 Iowaman : Gay men should have the right to marry, it's they're choice, why should someone else control your sexuality.
42 ConcordeBoy : If people believed there was nothing wrong with homosexuality, then they wouldn't have a problem with gay marriage or the rest of the laundry list. It
43 Post contains images Cactus739 : Iowaman, don't forget women my friend. I know a couple lesbians that would love to get married.
44 Lehpron : >>"The bottom line is that most Americans are against homosexuality, period. Against gay marriage, against gay civil unions, against gay boy scouts, a
45 ConcordeBoy : the whole world has to feel exactly the same as you do. The "whole world" is irrelevant... he was speaking within the context of America
46 Jhooper : (BTW, the following does not contradict what you said, rather a lot of people live in a small world.) That's right; you can't condradict what I said,
47 Gigneil : Hence, the government should intervene and unilaterally establish gay rights. They did it for black rights... they can do it for us. Its FREEDOM peopl
48 MD-90 : If my plane crashed, I want my partner to be recognized and receive what ever compensation a married spouse would receive. I want to be allowed to vis
49 SegmentKing : DTWclipper, I'm trying to add you to my respected users list but I guess I have to pay & upgrade for that! I"m with you all the way. -n
50 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : That is up to the Catholic Church, or the Southern Baptist Convention, or the United Methodist Church, etc. ...ah, but not what sects/religions would
51 LH423 : I have to disagree with that (as regards the US, at least). Statistically, gay men are still the most likely to get AIDS by far, with druggies a dista
52 Jasepl : At least someone said it. This is what it comes down to. For all the HRC or "Straight but not narrow" bumper stickers you see, the overwhelming majori
53 LH423 : Exactly! The US has become nothing more than a perpetual hypocrisy! For all previous governments' harping about communist governments around the world
54 Post contains images MD-90 : Well, I never see any ads like LH423 mentions because hardly anyone gets AIDS in Alabama or Mississippi. ...ah, but not what sects/religions would ord
55 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : hardly anyone gets AIDS in Alabama or Mississippi. I sincerely hope for your sake that you're not banking your health on that And Concordeboy, you kn
56 MD-90 : I don't believe in having sex before marriage, so I feel quite confident that I don't have to worry about getting an STD. Tom W. Smith's much more rec
57 Post contains images ClassicLover : The above statistics immediately make me question the methodology of obtaining them. I somehow doubt the percentages would be that low. ConcordeBoy wa
58 SegmentKing : Trent, A pig flew first class on board a USAirways B757 from PHL to LAX about a year or two ago... I'd rephrase that statement. -n
59 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : That good enough for you, ConcordeBoy? ROFL, not by a longggggggggggshot. Let's see: "a full probability sample""has been exclusively homosexual""only
60 Gigneil : And Concordeboy, you know it ain't 1 in 10. That's just gay propaganda to try and make the cause seem more important. I actually think it to be more.
61 Pdpsol : RJpieces, The will of the majority over sexual minorities has been made abundantly clear by the dreadful results of last week's successful amendment v
62 PROSA : And Concordeboy, you know it ain't 1 in 10. That's just gay propaganda to try and make the cause seem more important. I actually think it to be more.
63 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : therefore making conclusions on the prevalence of homosexuality based on observations in underground dance clubs is highly misleading. Sorta like a co
64 Jaysit : "I fear the answer to this question, so I will do EVERYTHING I can to fight for the rights I deserve by speaking to as many people I can about our com
65 SegmentKing : Back in 2000, I was working for the Illinois GOP. Peter Fitzgerald, Senator, was having a fundraiser that I had helped setup. According to the "gay wo
66 PROSA : therefore making conclusions on the prevalence of homosexuality based on observations in underground dance clubs is highly misleading. Sorta like a co
67 767Lover : Not sure how it was done elsewhere, but here in GA, the majority of the language of the amendment was missing from the ballot. The ballot only asked i
68 PROSA : It's not so simple convincing everyone (including the government) of that-- particularly when you have such instances as the Gay Porn Industry, or Gir
69 Pdpsol : Hey Nate, Don't think that the Republicans HATE all gays I completely agree with you here, just as I completely believe we cannot rely on the Demos to
70 SegmentKing : On the other hand, the Democrats can't be trusted. In the late 80s and early 90s, Democrats appealed themselves to the gay & lesbian community and gar
71 Post contains images Lehpron : C-bro, was I wrong to assume that you knew what a metaphor was? What did you think I meant by 'small world', Disneyland? >>"That's right; you can't co
72 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : What did you think I meant by 'small world', Disneyland? ...considering some of your past tangents, do ya really wanna know?
73 Post contains images Cannikin : I don't know enough about the population itself, but for a country and a government that bangs on and on and on and on about being the beacon of freed
74 Thetuna : I don't know enough about the population itself, but for a country and a government that bangs on and on and on and on about being the beacon of freed
75 Jasepl : Yeah and most other countries have room to speak, that's also why more people try to get citizenship here than any where else in the WORLD!! Other tha
76 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : are in it for the money and not for the freedom or equality or democracy or whatever. ...course, what more-often-than-not, PERMITS them to attain/achi
77 Jasepl : ...course, what more-often-than-not, PERMITS them to attain/achieve "the money" which they seek---- Uhhh... I'm going to say No.
78 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : ...great attention to context
79 Jaysit : "9 out of 10 people seeking to move to America are in it for the money and not for the freedom or equality or democracy or whatever." But 1 out of 10
80 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : Well said Jaysit
81 Jasepl : I still enjoy more freedom as a gay man in the US, than say a gay man in India Whilst that may be true for you, it's entirely subjective. When I look
82 Jaysit : "Whilst that may be true for you, it's entirely subjective." True. But irrespective of my experiences, even if you were to compare the life of the ave
83 Flyboy1980 : Gay rights aren't so flash here in NZ either - the American Christian far-right has been dabbling in and funding other conservative groups here - a mi
84 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : Year after year, I was teased. Daily I was called "faggot", "poof", "girl", "homo" or any number of other names. Keep in mind that much of that was ou
85 Flyboy1980 : easy to laugh when it's not happening to you. do u not have empathy for others?
86 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : easy to laugh when it's not happening to you. nah, I'm quite familiar with both sides of that equation do u not have empathy for others? I'm gonna ass
87 Dtwclipper : Here is the basic issue people. We met with our lawyer today to make sure our wills, power of attorney, living wills, and medical power of attorney we
88 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : Why are we such a threat to some family that we never met? Because people like you mean that more whitebread mommies and daddies (who probably didn't
89 Gigneil : I was left with zero self esteem and zero self confidence. I actually have more because of it. N
90 ConcordeBoy : I actually have more because of it. Likewise, hence my comment.
91 Post contains images DeltaGuy : ...what gay rights? DeltaGuy
92 Post contains images ScarletHarlot : Wow, DeltaGuy, you're just a hoot, aren't you? Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, As long as they're straigh
93 MD-90 : It would be as if 15 years of common mortgage payments, taxes, community involvement never existed. Trust government to screw everything up. Your situ
94 Pdpsol : Hey MD-90, Same sex unions are really a government entity, not religious, which is why I don't care if they're enacted or not. But fundamentally they'
95 MD-90 : Because marriage supercedes government. It is something that government has no right or justification to mess with. However, given the government's un
96 777236ER : Because marriage supercedes government. It is something that government has no right or justification to mess with. However, given the government's un
97 Gigneil : Same sex unions are really a government entity, not religious, which is why I don't care if they're enacted or not. You should care. You're an America
98 Post contains links Cactus739 : Looks like its spreading to Arizona as well. Article in the Arizona Republic states that key state lawmakers wants to put an ammendmant on the Novembe
99 Jmc1975 : The federal government forced black rights on all states because it was morally the right thing to do. The same thing applies to gay rights. Its moral
100 Gigneil : The scope of the issue is different, yes. I was hardly comparing my plight to that of a slave. But the fact remains that the government intervened and
101 ConcordeBoy : You were never discriminated against in that way. Bullsh!t... and to add on that, Slavery/JimCrow goes back hella further than (still ongoing) legal a
102 Jhooper : Lehpron , You said exactly what I said, just in a different way... I said: "The bottom line is that most Americans are against homosexuality, period."
103 Gigneil : I don't think anybody can argue that most Americans aren't against homosexuality. What's simple to argue is that the majority opinion is patently unam
104 Post contains links ConcordeBoy : he bottom line is that most Americans are against homosexuality, period ...it's going to stay that way until it can be unequivocally proven that homos
105 Post contains images Avek00 : Well, voting GOP is a surefire way to ensure that no further rights will be forthcoming anytime soon. [Edited 2004-11-11 17:14:36]
106 Jaysit : "Well, voting GOP is a surefire way to ensure that no further rights will be forthcoming anytime soon" Well, the GOP got 22% of the gay vote. It got 2
107 Avek00 : "So, either the GOP will see the gay vote as instrumental in helping it achieve victory in 2000 and 2004, or see it as a bunch of patsies they can con
108 Avek00 : "I deserve equal protections under the law. Are you, as my fellow American, unwilling to fight for them alongside me?" While I am not necessarily oppo
109 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : Don't get me wrong... of course I'm very perturbed with the way the Republican party treats gays-- especially seeing as most of it is so disingenously
110 Avek00 : I'm not going to go on a tangent on foreign policy, except to say that the Democrats have traditionally been the internationalists who engage threats
111 Jaysit : "Even as a straight guy, I view gay Republicans as either misguided fools or the homosexual version of an Uncle Tom, but that's just MHO." I view the
112 NWAFA : Gay Rights in America, now that would be nice! I have been with my partner now 10 1/2 years. We are monogomous. We own two homes together. We have deb
113 SegmentKing : Homosexuality is no longer Democrat or Republican. Both parties take advantage of the gay vote in every way that they can. In this past election, both
114 Post contains images LH423 : Yes, he may have done that, but he's also trying to make an AMENDMENT to the Constitution that would forever ban gay marriage and civil unions. Now, a
115 MaverickM11 : " I view gay Republicans as either misguided fools or the homosexual version of an Uncle Tom, but that's just MHO." That's extremely closed minded. Wh
116 Dtwclipper : NWAFA I have been with my partner now 10 1/2 years. We are monogomous. We own two homes together. We have debt. We laugh. We cry. We nit-pick at each
117 SegmentKing : That's my point. Democrats ARE more gay friendly. But does that mean they're willing to pick up the bat and swing for us? No. Yes, the Republicans hav
118 Dtwclipper : SegmentKing: "but remember a Constitutional Convention has to be called" There are essentially two ways spelled out in the Constitution for how it can
119 Jaysit : Case in point: 1992. What happened? Clinton was put in office. Democrats controlled the house, senate, and most of the governorships & state legislatu
120 Jmc1975 : Jaysit, Your words suggest that you are full of hate and that intolerance is not one of your gifts. Will you be open-minded enough to accept new ideas
121 Gigneil : Brutus, is that you? N
122 Jaysit : Bush did push for FMA, but remember a Constitutional Convention has to be called, and I doubt he'll EVER get the votes to pass it. I think you're righ
123 MaverickM11 : "how close quarters would lead to orgiastic behaviour. " ...and honestly, who wouldn't enjoy that?
124 Jaysit : Just as an addendum, remember that Barry Goldwater in the 90s came out VERY heavily in favor of gay rights as did Alan Simpson (ex Senator from Wyomin
125 Post contains images Jaysit : "how close quarters would lead to orgiastic behaviour. " ...and honestly, who wouldn't enjoy that? Who wouldn't indeed ! And unlike Bob Dole staring i
126 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : That's extremely closed minded. Why would I, who agrees with the overwhelming vast majority of what the Republican party stands for, switch allegiance
127 MaverickM11 : "*sigh* Don't waste your breath." True. Maybe I should just give up, call myself a KKK/Nazi, and join the HRC.
128 Avek00 : Trying to change the GOP's stance on gay rights from the inside is little more than making a token effort in order to say you're fighting for somethin
129 Jaysit : Well said, Avek00. There are pro-gay members among Republican lawmakers in Congress, but those who head the GOP are staunchly anti-gay. Compare this w
130 Avek00 : Jaysit: Having worked on the Hill for some time myself, I assure you that the GOP leadership (especially on the House side) has more contempt for mode
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