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Being A Soldier, To Die For Your Country?  
User currently offlineLevent From France, joined Sep 2004, 1718 posts, RR: 5
Posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3617 times:

Seeing images on the news showing soldiers fighting, I wonder what goes through their heads at those moments. Well, obviously they´re trying to survive. But what makes someone join the army and go into battle?

I mean, did you live your life, growing up, going to school, experiencing life... to later join the army and be shot dead? Are these soldiers really thinking about defending their country and willing to sacrifice their own life for it?
It seems such a waste.

I personally never wanted to join the armed forces and luckily never had to. Surely there would be people calling me a coward who isn´t prepared to defend his country in times of war. Go ahead, but that´s a fact. I didn´t achieve everything I have now just to give my life for someone else.

If I die in a car crash, plane crash or get shot by some lunatic, bad luck, but that´s out of my hands. And if I want to kill myself, I´d prefer to do that my own way.


84 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3675 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3603 times:

I guess there are 2 types of soldiers:

- The one who are really ready to die for their country.

- The one who need a salary (probably the majority).


User currently offlineAGC525 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 989 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3602 times:

Love for their country and preservation of a way of life. Of course no one wants to die, but like Patton said you win by making the other poor bastard die for his country. I never joined the military, but had plans on it back in high school, today I wish I had joined. If my country needed me, I'd enlist in a heartbeat. You should fight so your children shouldn't have to.

"I didn´t achieve everything I have now just to give my life for someone else."

I'm a firefighter. Of course I don't want to die, but the risk is always there, I relay on my training, education, and the guys with me. I'm sorry you feel that way, that's pretty sad.



American Aviation: From Kitty Hawk to the Moon in 66 years!
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3594 times:

I'm sorry you feel that way, that's pretty sad

...it's also the overwhelming tendency of human nature  Insane


User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3586 times:

Why is this concept hard to believe? There are many people out there that have such a deep love for their country that they have no problem fighting for their country, their way of life, and if they die...then they gave the ultimate sacrifice for what they believe.

User currently offlinePacificjourney From New Zealand, joined Jul 2001, 2728 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3572 times:

Oh the 'concept' of self-sacrifice is easily believable but surely claiming such a thing and actually doing are 2 different things.

Love of country etc, just some phrases of the cereal box. It's a bit like telling people how good you are in bed - those who have to shout about it are usually full of shit.



" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
User currently offlineIakobos From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 3312 posts, RR: 35
Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3563 times:

Japanese ancestors KROC ?

Nobody joins the army with the clear understanding that killing and be killed is part of the job. It might be written down somewhere, but the possibility is extremely remote, a lot less in fact that being the victim of an accident.
Embracing a career in uniform is just that: a career.
The job is as safe as many others and the employer is guaranteed never to go bankrupt.

Dying for a flag ? dying for (the others) way of life ? ...even today's boy scouts' training has evolved from this archaic paranoia rethoric.

The world is in need of living heroes in the field of human advancement, not dead heroes in the field of arms. (@AGC...we need also more firefighters)


User currently offlineTechrep From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3554 times:

The degree of Esprit de Corps depends on your branch of service, history and mission. I was in Pararescue for 4.5 months before breaking my legs and was committed to the motto "The things we do so others may live".

At that point in time in my life, 18 years old, I was committed to saying life and aiding the injured. Proportionally other branches had the same motto about killing the enemy and service of nation.

Many kids do in fact join to get a paycheck and I was one of those puke kids. However, after seeing the importance of the job and those who died defending the nation before you, your views quickly change. Many however do join to defend the nation, especially marines and Army. These branches have precipitous history of defense and many join on those preemies. Kids these days do actually care but many discount them as misguided, I firmly disagree!

The “corporate culture” in the military is the defense of the nation. When hiring in you many misconceptions but after a short period of time the reality of mission is crystal clear. I was not a Marine, but damn it, these guys have my salute. Semper Fidelis means something to these guys, never surrender, never leave your dead buddy behind, and never let the odds sway you. Tell a Marine you’re just in for the money! Please, and check back with me.

Marines signify loyalty and once a Marine always a Marine. Marines out for 50 years will still celebrate Marine Corp birthday. I still get goose bumps when I see vintage military aircraft and tear up during the national anthem. If you don’t understand such things, you really should do a gut check. You’re alive today because the blood of others was spilt defended your freedom. If you do not respect such labors than you’re a heartless coward.

Guess what? Today is Marine Corp Birthday!!


User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3545 times:

Japanese ancestors KROC ?

Nope

Nobody joins the army with the clear understanding that killing and be killed is part of the job. It might be written down somewhere, but the possibility is extremely remote, a lot less in fact that being the victim of an accident.
Embracing a career in uniform is just that: a career. The job is as safe as many others and the employer is guaranteed never to go bankrupt.


Sorry, but thats a load of crap. When each and every person signs up for the military, they know that can be sent anywhere at anytime and that they could possibly die in service for their country. And yes, some people join for a "career" but others join for a career in service to their country.

Dying for a flag ? dying for (the others) way of life ? ...even today's boy scouts' training has evolved from this archaic paranoia rethoric.

Paranoia rethoric? For the hundreds of thouands that have died so I personally can enjoythe life I do...they did not fight and or die for paranoia rethoric.

The world is in need of living heroes in the field of human advancement, not dead heroes in the field of arms. (@AGC...we need also more firefighters)

The world is in need of more heros period.

The degree of Esprit de Corps depends on your branch of service, history and mission. I was in Pararescue for 4.5 months before breaking my legs and was committed to the motto "The things we do so others may live".

Great point, and to take it further, I still apply the Air Force Core Values I learned while serving to my every day actions. Commitment to Excellence, Integrity, and Service Before Self.

Many kids do in fact join to get a paycheck and I was one of those puke kids. However, after seeing the importance of the job and those who died defending the nation before you, your views quickly change. Many however do join to defend the nation, especially marines and Army. These branches have precipitous history of defense and many join on those preemies. Kids these days do actually care but many discount them as misguided, I firmly disagree!

I agree with this. When I joined, I was 19 and married. I was looking for someplace to start my life, and the military provided that. Thing is, I wasn't even out of Basic when I already felt the real reason I joined was to serve my country in what ever way they asked me. Field exersices, deployments across the globe, a tour in Korea it didn't matter. But like Rep said, you just don't join the Marines, or even the Army looking for a "career" in infantry. They join because they love their country and want to serve and defend it. And if anyone has gone through Basic Training or Boot Camp, it is made painfully evident of what your ultiamte sacrifice can be.

Marines signify loyalty and once a Marine always a Marine. Marines out for 50 years will still celebrate Marine Corp birthday. I still get goose bumps when I see vintage military aircraft and tear up during the national anthem. If you don’t understand such things, you really should do a gut check. You’re alive today because the blood of others was spilt defended your freedom. If you do not respect such labors than you’re a heartless coward.

Again, more great points. I tear up hearing the National Anthem as well. Whether on T.V., in a stadium, no matter. Hell, when I stand, my feet are together at a 45 degree angle. I celebrate the Air Force Birthday, and as a member of the VFW, I'll be celebrating Veterans Day (tomorrow) as well. And again the gut check is a perfect description...thing is, not many people have the ability to do that or understand that, and thats sad.




User currently offlineDl021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11446 posts, RR: 76
Reply 9, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3515 times:
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Perhaps Levent has not thought this completely through, and does not understand that freedom is not only won most often through force of arms, but maintained by the same. He may also be seeing through the skewed vision of a Europacifist who resents conscription. There are some things worth the hardship and risk, and even the death one might face as a soldier or serviceman.

No soldier is very interested in dying, but the ones in the volunteer services around the world typically joined not for the paycheck, which is usually pretty minimal, but in order to do their part to defend their values and freedoms. They are willing to take the risk, make the sacrifices and even die for what they believe in and their friends.

I can't say why every other soldier volunteered, but I did it knowing about the risks and probabilities and went in order to do my part in defending our freedom. Most of my friends while in were there for the same fundamental reasons. Service is typically easier for the young because we spend less time taking counsel of our fears, but to say that one cannot see themselves serving for fear of death and to justify ones inaction by saying that the ones who are serving and sacrificing are wasting their efforts and lives is less than honorable. Why doesn't he ask some volunteer soldiers who are currently serving whether their service is worth the risk.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineCaptoveur From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3500 times:

To Quote Patton:

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."


User currently offlineQR332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3486 times:

Why would it be not possible to die for your country? Many people are willing to give up their life for their country, me included.

User currently offlineDl021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11446 posts, RR: 76
Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3477 times:
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There is a difference between being willing to die for your country and actually committing suicide for your country as a matter of first resort.

Most real soldiers will express this view similarly.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineLevent From France, joined Sep 2004, 1718 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3448 times:

Thanks for all your responses. Please don´t understand wrong, I do have deep respect for the ones who go into battle and fight for a cause. And I do know that the soldiers who died during wars gave their lives for the freedom of others.

It´s difficult to explain my thoughts, but the reason I was asking this is more to know what goes on in the heads of soldiers who go into battle, knowing that there is a chance that they will be killed.

Ok maybe I´m referring more to life and death instead of the line of duty. As said here before, also firefighters, police officers etc. can be killed. But they are doing the job to save and serve people, respectively.
It´s just the thought of being in a battle and losing your life because of a bullet, fired at you by purpose.

Maybe my problem is that, having lived in seven different countries, I don´t have any special feeling or bond with a certain nation.


User currently offlineCommander_Rabb From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 771 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3436 times:

It seems such a waste.


Thankfully for most of us, there were those who paid the ultimate sacrifice that gives our lives, our freedoms and our amazing world we have today.

But what makes someone join the army and go into battle?

How about fighting for what you believe in?

What’s with these questions?!?


User currently offlineSASlover From Denmark, joined Mar 2004, 350 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3424 times:

Well i would never be a soldier and kill people just because a General commands you too do it.


Pilot how soon can you land this plane. I can't tell. Yes you can tell me iam a doctor
User currently offlineMiamiair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3419 times:

People are still enlisting, knowing there's a war on...doesn't that tell you something? The reasoning in the start of this post is exactly why Spain dropped their trousers after the 3/11 blasts and took it up the wazoo. IMO, if something would have happened here prior to the elections, all they would have accomplished is to stick their talleywhackers in a beehive. I joined the army right out of high school, was in the infantry and you know what, it changes you. It instills certain values in you that I apply to this very day. My best friends are from the other branches (no coasties, their boats have wheels on the bottoms) and sure we rag on the other branches, but it will always come down to this...we love our country, and we wore the uniform, and if we had to bleed while we were in, so be it. Freedom isn't free. Its been paid for in blood everywhere around the world.

User currently offlineDl021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11446 posts, RR: 76
Reply 17, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3419 times:
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saslover...You would if you felt threatened. Your limited exposure to the world means you have not yet left the safe and comfortable environment provided to you by soldiers who fought for your freedom.

levent...Think about the people who sacrificed to provide you with the opportunity to live your life being able to freely travel and live. It is not just about nationalism...its freedom.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineJeffM From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3266 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3419 times:

"Well i would never be a soldier and kill people just because a General commands you too do it."

You kill the guy trying to kill you.....does that make it easier for you? Or you can lay dead based on your stubborn ignorance to follow the order.


User currently offlineMiamiair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3409 times:

"It is the soldier, not the reporter,
Who has given us freedom of the press.

"It is the soldier, not the poet,
Who has given us freedom of speech.

"It is the soldier, not the campus organizer,
Who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.

"It is the soldier, who salutes the flag,
Who serves beneath the flag,
And whose coffin is draped by the flag,
Who allows the protester to burn the flag."

-- Father Dennis Edward O'Brian, USMC
(10 November 1775, a Corps of Marines was created by a resolution of Continental Congress -- Semper Fi!)

Excerpted from the Fedarlist Patriot, 10 NOV 04


User currently offlinePPGMD From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3405 times:

I think that there is also a misconception about death. Whether you join the military or not, you are going to die when the time comes for you to die, you will die.

That's my belief and the belief of many of the people that I know. You should still take reasonable precautions to protect your life, but there is nothing you can do to prevent your death.



At worst, you screw up and die.
User currently offlineLevent From France, joined Sep 2004, 1718 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3402 times:

But there is a big difference in enlisting and going to war and being killed, or dying in a plane crash. With the latter I believe it´s meant to be, but not with the first. Just my opinion.

User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8494 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3400 times:

I wouldn't be willing to die for Bush in his unconstitutional war.

The only just wars in American history have been the American Revolution and the War to Prevent Southern Independence.


User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3386 times:

You mean to tell me World War I or II were not just MD-90?  Insane

User currently offlineMiamiair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3382 times:

MD90:

You have blown an N1 disk. It works the other way around, the Commander in Chief issues the orders, and as crap rolls down hill, you get to do the dirty deed. You don't get to pick your CO. Then again you wouldn't know anything about the oath. Forget it, its like trying to teach a pig to sing...You would be cannon fodder.


25 RT514 : There are many people out there that have such a deep love for their country that they have no problem fighting for their country, their way of life,
26 Dl021 : md90 is speaking from a position of ignorance, and since he has some weird idea that the Civil War was a just constitutional act on the part of the so
27 Pacificjourney : You guys all joined up because you couldn't get another job and at the time it sounded like fun (... and they paid your otherwise unemployable hides).
28 PPGMD : You guys all joined up because you couldn't get another job and at the time it sounded like fun (... and they paid your otherwise unemployable hides).
29 L-188 : No poor dumb bastard ever won a war by dying for their country. They won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for theirs. I suppose you could
30 Post contains images AGC525 : MD90- "I wouldn't be willing to die for Bush in his unconstitutional war. The only just wars in American history have been the American Revolution and
31 Superfly : AGC525: But you would for Clinton, Ford or Carter, etc...? Nah he would only fight and die for Stonewall Jackson, Robert E. Lee and John C. Breckenrid
32 AGC525 : Why not, they were better commanders
33 Pacificjourney : PPGMD having been in the military myself absolutely I have said it and most of the honest ones would probably acknowledge the truth and then get the d
34 Dl021 : pacificjourney has amazingly developed the ability to make noises emanate from his 4th point of contact. You must have served with the retard squad ba
35 Pacificjourney : Wow a HS diploma or even ... gasp ... it's equivalent. Colour me impressed ! Some college, who doesn't have 'some college'. You are right about the pa
36 Post contains links MD-90 : The conflicts in Korea, Vietnam, and others all had resolutions passed in congress making them legal conflicts. But no formal Congressional declaratio
37 Commander_Rabb : You know P J you have some real issues don't you? You just HATE the fact that there are some who join the military because they feel a certain pride i
38 MD-90 : It sure beats teaching cow re-production rates and using fertilizer to it's greatest advantage. Hey, I've friends who take Animal and Dairy Science as
39 BN747 : Nobody joins the army with the clear understanding that killing and be killed is part of the job. It might be written down somewhere, but the possibil
40 Levent : Another striking effect of war: soldiers killing the enemy, full of hatred and trying to survive, and yet misusing their power to rape the enemy´s wi
41 BN747 : I wonder whether that has to do with humiliation... The very act of War ignites a vicious cycle of humiliation... and there is no end. BN747
42 TT737FO : First of all, I will wish all fellow Marines here a most happy 229th! A toast to all those who serve and prayers to those in Iraq--especially in Fallu
43 Post contains images KROC : I'm sorry KROC.. Lakobos is spot on with this statement! No one and I mean no one joins with that intent... if someone remotely has that kind of 'deat
44 Miamiair : KROC: Good point bringing up Pat Tillman and his brother; another professional sports figure giving up their lucrative professions to enlist in what t
45 Post contains links MD-90 : Anyone here ever read James Joyce's From Here to Eternity? I recently read it myself. It's about the Schofield Barracks in Hawaii just prior to and af
46 United4EverDEN : I have a job, plan on continuing my education, and all that good stuff, but I would be willing to put it all on hold to go serve in the army if necess
47 Levent : Newsflash: There is a war going on. Your President says it.
48 KROC : Newsflash - He isn't asking for anyone not in the military to fight it yet.
49 MD-90 : Necessary meaning that the United States has been invaded. Necessary for the expansion of the American Empire? No thanks.
50 RT514 : I have to say that Dl021 just spread Pacificjourneys chicklets all over the place. No he didn't. You must have served with the retard squad back when
51 Miamiair : MD-90: Maybe its time to change your username to TU-134 and a Registration of CCCP-whatever.
52 Yu138086 : The day i see both of George Bushs' daughters (or any other president's children) put on combat boots and steer tanks in Fallujah, is the day I'll joi
53 Techrep : We had that War already, it was called WWI (The War to end all wars). A lot of good that did huh? TechRep
54 Yu138086 : I read stories that come of the soldiers came back and found out that their homes were repossesed by the banks because the gov'nt, as a result of its
55 Slider : To coin a phrase, "If I had to explain, you wouldn't understand." To those who don't understand, or appreciate, or worse--choose to demean and ridicul
56 PPGMD : Necessary for the expansion of the American Empire? No thanks. Now that has to be the funniest thing that I have read all week. Since WWII America has
57 BN747 : That's what the citation says. Unfortunately people like PacificJourney and BN will never, ever understand it. It's horse-crap to them. TT737FO, you'v
58 Dl021 : The beliefs, opinions, thoughts contained in the above posts were made possible by the sacrifices of US servicemen and women in combat and peacetime o
59 RT514 : DI021, you once again disappoint me in that I had previously had an inkling that you would be provocative enough to give me some real food for thought
60 Dl021 : With the everlasting desire to avoid disappointing rt514, as well as desiring to engage in discussion rather than vitriol I would like to respond to t
61 PPGMD : DI021, I believe that the Navy still has a program for non-HS grads, though I hear that they still have to do half descently on the ASVAB, and are use
62 Post contains images RT514 : You must have served with the retard squad back when they allowed subpar intelligence individuals in the military to perform menial labor tasks. ...an
63 Dl021 : ppgmd I think you may be speaking of the navy practice of sending recruits to sea for a cruise doing manual labor, i.e. laundry on a/c carriers prior
64 RT514 : Your initial entry into this conversation sought to ridicule the intelligence of the US military by equating it to the level of the average McDonalds
65 BN747 : BN747, Pacificjourney, and others who served but left with hard feelings are entitled to their opinions. I think they are seriously wrong, but thats m
66 Dl021 : rt514 I can argue points with people, however I get irritated when I see people making points that denigrate the American serviceman. I feel free to m
67 RT514 : I don't apologize, but I wish to be clear. It is clear. The American military is obviously a subject to which you have an emotional sensitivity and th
68 Post contains images Northwest717 : War sucks. There is no winner in war. When war breaks out, everybody loses. Anybody that thinks war is the answer, doesn't have an ounce of common sen
69 Dl021 : Just for the record I can be rational in a discussion of the US military, and have laid out several cogent points that counter your post where you cam
70 BN747 : BN747 I am referring to two things.. One. your previous posts where you announced that only the stupid ones join the army, because they couldn't get i
71 Dl021 : BN747 Dude, I said you made the reference in an earlier post, perhaps I should have been more specific to say earlier thread, one where you were calli
72 BN747 : BN747 Dude, I said you made the reference in an earlier post, perhaps I should have been more specific to say earlier thread, one where you were calli
73 ClassicLover : I remember having a discussion about war and so on with some friends. Myself and another friend both said that we'd join the defence forces in the eve
74 Post contains links Dl021 : BN747 Before you accuse me of spending too much time doing this, remember that you demanded this two posts back. BN747 Dude, I said you made the refer
75 RT514 : Just for the record I can be rational in a discussion of the US military... Good for you. Keep telling yourself that. ...continued your damnation... Y
76 Dl021 : You took a while to explain why you are choosing to ignore that which you find difficult to justify or defend. rt514 I rarely attack anyone here, I do
77 Navymidn : To all those who seem to believe that the military is made up of idiots, a few facts. The second largest NROTC Unit is here at Purdue University, and
78 Post contains images Slider : Take a good look. Houston James, a Pearl Harbor survivor, embraces Marine Staff Sgt. Mark Graunke Jr. during the Veterans Day ceremony at City Hall in
79 BN747 : DI021: I said I served..you called me a liar and I gave my unit number and years served The actual statement made by me... " I don't brag about being
80 BN747 : Take a good look. Houston James, a Pearl Harbor survivor, embraces Marine Staff Sgt. Mark Graunke Jr. during the Veterans Day ceremony at City Hall in
81 Slider : Hmmmm... I wonder do you get that 'powerful image feeling' every time you see footage Sen. Max Cleland - who lost both legs and an arm in Vietnam- ..
82 Northwest717 : I'm glad to see that on a day that we should have been revering these people, all yall did is bitch. Real mature guys... -Tim ~~~****PEACE****~~~
83 Dl021 : BN Man, you are unwilling to face the truth. You pull a Clinton and say that you did not accuse soldiers of being stupid, merely dim or dumb...as if t
84 BN747 : Yeah.. and if you're getting paid as a military shrink.. judging by how well you think you read people... you're failing on a colossal scale! Your cus
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