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Kerry Crashed In Flyover Country  
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8502 posts, RR: 12
Posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1546 times:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/ocregister/kerry-crashed.html

Liberal activists and commentators need to get out a little more.

They should spend a week or more in Omaha, Biloxi or Bismarck. There they will find nice, normal people living their lives in nice, normal ways. They'll find nice, normal houses and nice, normal shopping malls. Yep, they've got indoor plumbing in flyover country. Nice downtowns. No burning of witches at the stake in the town square.

Lots of intelligent and decent people. More ethnic and ideological diversity than leftists imagine. People in those parts of the country tend to be more traditional in their values than coastal elites and they tend to be more religious, also. Because they are more likely to believe in God and in the original founding principles of the nation, liberals think they are mostly hate-filled Neanderthals.

I spent many years in what liberals deride as flyover country, having been a resident of Lima, Ohio, Des Moines, Iowa, Tullahoma, Tenn., and Reading, Pa. The sarcastic, dripping mockery from the left comes through loud and clear to the "rubes" in the cornfields. As the Democratic Party has embraced the values of Hollywood and has engaged in snarling putdowns and ludicrous stereotypes of Middle America, so has it lost the hearts, minds and votes of larger swaths of the nation.


The stereotype of the liberal elitist snob in New York City or Hollywood does not help the Democrats whatsoever in Tuscaloosa, AL or Kearney, Nebraska. A.net has scores of users with similiar views who feel that it is perfectly acceptable to look down upon the inhabitants of Mississippi's trailer parks.

By the way, the guy who wrote this article isn't your typical Fox News neocon. He's either a libertarian-leaning genuine conservative or a libertarian.

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCsavel From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1362 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1509 times:

Frankly I think the stereotype of the arrogant, "we know better than you" elite liberal ensconced on the coasts is just as incorrect and as outdated as the rube stereotype.

Maybe Barbra Streisand still holds those stereotypes (go to her Web site http://www.barbrastreisand.com It's a scream,) but hatred of the blue states as a bunch of social engineering Lesbian leftists fomented by Rove and company irritate me, especially since Rove and company are social engineers of the right, and frankly seem to be the new "we know what's good for you elites."



I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1482 times:

"People in those parts of the country tend to be more traditional in their values than coastal elites and they tend to be more religious, also."

More drivel.

In my years of living in the NorthEast, I have met thousands of blue collar workers, middle class office workers who are just as religious as their red state counterparts but believe that shoving religion in the civil framework of a pluralistic nation is antithetical to what being an American is, namely the ability to be inclusive, to live and let live, and to be tolerant of those whose lives are not dictated by a narrow view of God and country. I have friends and family all over the South and they don't prescribe to religious interference in public life. In fact, my visits to the South have shown me that there are plenty of religious liberals in the Jimmy Carter vein who share a very different religious ethic than that promoted by James Dobson and exploited by Karl Rove.

And lets not forget that of the 56 million who voted for Kerry, 44% live in those red states.

Enough of this mom and apple pie glorification over the supposed wine and brie set. As a matter of fact, the so called coastal elitist states have lower divorce rates, lower teen pregnancy rates, and higher levels of education achieved only by a dedication to investments in promoting a rich social fabric.


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1477 times:

And sadly enough that idiot commentator from Orange County PROMOTES a sharpening of the social divide. What a pathetic human being he is.

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1464 times:

Because they are more likely to believe in God and in the original founding principles of the nation,

People in states that voted to cast aside gay rights do NOT believe in the original founding principles of the nation.

Plain and simple.

N


User currently offlineRalgha From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 1614 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1444 times:

People in states that voted to cast aside gay rights do NOT believe in the original founding principles of the nation.

Well said. Very well said.



09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
User currently offlineSpinzels From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 328 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1419 times:

MD-90:

Can you give us even a single quote from a liberal activist or liberal commentator that disparages “red states”, “fly over country”, or “middle America”, in the manner you are suggesting?
I’m sure writing this made you feel better, MD-90, but this is a pretty crude characterization of how liberals feel about the states that went for Bush in 2000 and 2004 (“Bush States”).

They should spend a week or more in Omaha, Biloxi or Bismarck. There they will find nice, normal people living their lives in nice, normal ways.

That doesn’t surprise me. Some of my best friends live in Bush states  Big grin … Not to mention most of my family.

People in those parts of the country tend to be more traditional in their values than coastal elites and they tend to be more religious, also.

Can you explain to me what it means to be “more traditional in their values”? I would really love to know. We know that people in Bush states tend to have more divorces (1); and we know that more children are born out of wedlock in Bush States (2); and we also know that murder rates are higher in Bush States than in Kerry States (3).

So what exactly are those “traditional values”?

And what about the traditional value of self-reliance? Most Bush states don’t know anything about self-reliance, because they are dependent on federal budget transfers from the Kerry/Blue States. (4) Apparently, one thing about "Bicoastal elites" that Bush State people can accept, is their money. Is that a traditional value, too?

Because they are more likely to believe in God and in the original founding principles of the nation, liberals think they are mostly hate-filled Neanderthals.

Again, can you give me a single quote from a liberal supporting this? Is there any substance to this rant? You seem to have more than a little hate inside you.



(1) http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/03statab/vitstat.pdf, Table 126

(2) Id., Table 94

(3) http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/region.htm

(4) As determined by the conservative advocacy group, the Tax Foundation,
http://www.taxfoundation.org/ff/taxingspendingupdate.html



I've been to Paradise, but I've never been to me
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1384 times:

That article by that hate-filled neanderthal gloating about the divisive tactics used by Karl Rove and his hit men --- look I said it --- is full of rubbish.

He says for instance:

But it's more than that. Bush did surprisingly well even in those parts of the country that are the deepest blue. His numbers in California weren't that bad. He came close to victory in Pennsylvania, Minnesota and Michigan. He only lost New Jersey by 7 percentage points and "culturally left" Oregon by 3 percentage points.

Well, Kerry only lost Arizona by 3%, Ohio and Florida by 2 %, New Mexico and Iowa by 1%. His numbers in Florida were not bad: lost only by 5%, and he lost Missouri only by 7%. He also got 40% of GWB's home state ! So what's red today may well be blue tomorrow.

And, frankly, while I visit the red states often, there is a reason why I live in Blue America. I like real urban communities, I like the ability to walk to work, to meet and befriend people from all over America and the world. I like not having to explain my ethnicity, defend my sexual orientation, validate my own brand of spirituality.

If people like the author of that shameful article continue to perpetuate their hateful glee and their vision of divisiveness, I may join the ranks of millions of blue-staters who are justifiably pissed off that our federal taxes fund those very red staters hell bent on imposing their so-called moral values on the rest of us.

I'd much prefer to live in a lavender America (in more ways than one), but if hate mongers on the right want to bloody us, two can play at the same game.


User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8502 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1304 times:

As a matter of fact, the so called coastal elitist states have lower divorce rates, lower teen pregnancy rates, and higher levels of education achieved only by a dedication to investments in promoting a rich social fabric.

Now that's BS. "Promoting a rich social fabric?" What kind of crap is that? There is a single explanation that explains all three of the statistics that you mentioned. It's called WEALTH.


Poor Jaysit. He sounds upset.


Spinzels, do a search on trailer parks on this forum.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39709 posts, RR: 75
Reply 9, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1296 times:

I like visiting Minnesota, Wisconsin and parts of Michigan. I still kick around the idea of moving to those parts. I am originally from Indiana.
I know there are lots of great things the 'fly over states' offer.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineDc10guy From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 2685 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1286 times:

Well that may be true MD-90 but your right wing Christian "good people" will be getting lots of revenge on them left wing liberals now. Soon there will be no more teaching that liberal garbage about "evolution" and soon the public schools will force kids to pray too .... And those are only the beginnings.


Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8502 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1280 times:

I've always liked the area around Oshkosh, Wisconsin.

User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1269 times:

"Now that's BS. "Promoting a rich social fabric?" What kind of crap is that? There is a single explanation that explains all three of the statistics that you mentioned. It's called WEALTH."

Crap?
How is a low divorce rate related to wealth? Or vice versa?
Low divorce rates, low teen pregnancy rates, lower crime rates are ALL related to high levels of education and a willingness by society to promote social welfare, because both create wealth. People and the progressive politicians from both parties they elect create social systems that foster wealth. Thats what I mean by a rich social fabric.
Racism and homophobia and bigotry only create wealth for those who exploit such social banes.

There's more to life than shopping like a zombie at a Walmart and then nodding your head like yet another zombie while some fundamentalist preacher screams holy murder against gays and lesbians and immigrants.

The day Mississippi comes up with a viable competitor to Stanford or MIT or Harvard or the UC system, the day Mississippi comes up with a public high school that rivals Stuyvesant or Bronx High, the day Mississippi creates a Nobel laureate, then come and tell me that the social fabric that we dedicate our lives and our taxes to up here in the much maligned blue states are crap.

Until then keep following your preachers like sheep.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39709 posts, RR: 75
Reply 13, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1262 times:

Jaysit:
You're using too many fancy words. You're making there eyes glaze over.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineCsavel From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1362 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1245 times:

Jaysit,

while I'm a true blue stater (New Yorker) and proud, the divorce rate stat proves nothing.This is why in general one must take statistics with a grain of salt.
It is likely that the Northeast's low divorce rate is more to do with people living together before marriage,which I'm betting is still less prevalent in Dixie, those living together experiments that are successful often blossom into marriage, and those marriages have already been "test-driven" as it were. Those living together that break up don't show up in the divorce rate statistics.

The other two might, although crime rates definitely have a lot to do with wealth. Greater wealth lowers crime unless the wealth is unevenly distributed. There is a correlation, or as much of a correlation that there can be in social science stats.



I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1242 times:

"The other two might, although crime rates definitely have a lot to do with wealth. Greater wealth lowers crime unless the wealth is unevenly distributed."

Well, you got that right. Progressive social systems have always sought a stabe middle class.

"It is likely that the Northeast's low divorce rate is more to do with people living together before marriage,which I'm betting is still less prevalent in Dixie, those living together experiments that are successful often blossom into marriage, and those marriages have already been "test-driven" as it were."

I think its because folks in the NE marry at a later age, having had more years of formal schooling and work before marriage. Also, a higher percentage of women work in the NE. Both are testament to a. better education systems; b. a culture that fosters education; c. a culture that promotes women's education; and d. greater acceptance of women in the work force.


User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8502 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1209 times:

Mississippi creates a Nobel laureate,

Ever heard of our most famous Nobel laureate, William Faulkner? Big grin



Low divorce rates, low teen pregnancy rates, lower crime rates are ALL related to high levels of education and a willingness by society to promote social welfare, because both create wealth. People and the progressive politicians from both parties they elect create social systems that foster wealth. Thats what I mean by a rich social fabric.
Racism and homophobia and bigotry only create wealth for those who exploit such social banes.


Honestly, I feel embarassed for your ignorance. You need some Mises.org, and quickly!


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1203 times:

As a matter of fact, the so called coastal elitist states have lower divorce rates, lower teen pregnancy rates, and higher levels of education achieved only by a dedication to investments in promoting a rich social fabric.

I think you just gave me diabeties with the amount of sugar coating on that line.




OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineN312RC From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 2682 posts, RR: 16
Reply 18, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1170 times:

Explain it away all you want, but when Herb and Mary Commoner of Springfield, MO see this, what do they think? It sure as hell would offend me, and it does.



Frankly, Im proud to be a "middle American" (Who comes from the BLUE state of Michigan). I like to think Im more on an "even keel" than the person pictured above, but apparently he thinks his vote counts more than mine.. why? Simply because he thinks he's exposed to more "worldly" things than I am? Well guess what sonny, we get CNN here too, and I know this one's hard to believe, but we do drink Starbucks and by-golly, we have a Pottery Barn.

How can you even SIDE with someone who hoists a poster like that? It's just shameful. I think I speak for "Middle America" when I say that.

Now go ahead and tell me its his right, yadda yadda yadda, while completely bypassing my point.

EDIT:

Oh and another thing, I find it offensive that people consider "middle america" to be a bunch of right wing nut jobs. We arent. We're just like you, except we have different priorities and maybe things matter to us a little differently. Think about that next time youre "flying over" where I live. You arent the ONLY Americans who have a say, as much as you'd love that.

[Edited 2004-11-11 08:34:12]


Fly Delta's Big Jets!
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 19, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1152 times:

Michigan is on a major body of water. It gets exempted from the rule.

Unfortunately, GA, VA, the Carolinas, and Florida can't overcome, despite being on a major body of water.

N


User currently offlineAvObserver From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 2470 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1140 times:

"Because they are more likely to believe in God and in the original founding principles of the nation..."

I second Gigniel's take on this line. Since when was denying people rights, voting against allowing gays to marry, for example, part of "the original founding principles of the nation". It would seem these people either forgot or just ignore that the U.S. was supposed to be about FREEDOM. Freedom of religion shouldn't be carrying a mandate into the governmental process to single out any group of people for discrimination. That philosophy once permitted racism and slavery in a supposedly free nation. The supposed "morality" of any religion, Christian or otherwise, has no place in shaping government policy; that's why we've a Constitutional Amendment declaring separation of church and state. It's a copout to make it a states-rights issue because it's still discrimination on U.S. soil; what the hell are these 'God-fearing' people really afraid of?  Yeah sure


User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8502 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1111 times:

Such faddism as "gay rights" is the reason why the Democrats lost this election.

User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1095 times:

"Such faddism as "gay rights" is the reason why the Democrats lost this election."

Yep, much like the "faddism" that was civil rights that lost the Democrats the elections in 1968.

The more you post on this site, the more we're all convinced that Mississippi is a cesspool of stupid, ignorant, ugly, fat people.


User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8502 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1077 times:

That attitude doesn't help Democrats win elections, either.

So much for tolerance.


User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5365 posts, RR: 53
Reply 24, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1059 times:

Such faddism as "gay rights" is the reason why the Democrats lost this election.

And I'm sure you're just waiting for those other two fads - "minority rights" and "women's rights" to go away too.



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
25 Jaysit : That attitude doesn't help Democrats win elections, either. So much for tolerance. Yeah. I should be tolerant of your intolerance.
26 Spinzels : It is likely that the Northeast's low divorce rate is more to do with people living together before marriage,which I'm betting is still less prevalen
27 Post contains images Flyboy36y : The day Mississippi comes up with a viable competitor to Stanford or MIT or Harvard or the UC system, the day Mississippi comes up with a public high
28 Ejmmsu : The day Mississippi comes up with a viable competitor to Stanford or MIT or Harvard or the UC system Large Urban centers have been around in the NE mu
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