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End The Non-Av Forum?  
User currently offlineBlackbird1331 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1894 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2221 times:

There were quite a few suggestions that the "Non-Av" forum be eliminated from A.Net on a site related thread.

One major concern seemed to be topics that dealt with politics because it tends to lead to flaming and character assault.

As a member, do you want political discussions banned from the forum? Or see an end to the Non-Av Forum?




Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDan2002 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 2055 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (10 years 1 week ago) and read 2209 times:

That was the case about a year ago, first it closed down then went to first-class members only then back to normal, and the reason the warning is at the top of the page now.

-Dan



A guy asks 'What's Punk?'. I kick over a trash can and its punk. He knocks over a trash can and its trendy.
User currently offlineSkysurfer From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 1136 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (10 years 1 week ago) and read 2202 times:

I wouldn't like to see either one of them banned because in the case of the non-av forum there are some pretty good topics on there. However, the political threads do tend to get out of hand just like the A vs B ones do, so i think i'd lean more towards banning the political ones if i had to choose. It's just a shame that some people go way too far when replying to someone's comments or opinions about politics, or anything else for that matter!!

Cheers



In the dark you can't see ugly, but you can feel fat
User currently offlineEGGD From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 12443 posts, RR: 34
Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 week ago) and read 2194 times:

Whether you remove the forum or not there will still be vindictive, childish members on this site. I'd rather see the Non-av forum stay rather than be closed due to a small number of members.

User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 1 week ago) and read 2182 times:

There's been talk about ending this forum. A few people don't seem to like the fact that some of us don't want to talk aviation 24/7/365  Smile

I personally think it'll be mistake, but the decision is not up to me.


User currently offlineJuanr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 1 week ago) and read 2174 times:

Those things are a kind of censorship; if there is a non-aviation forum it is to discuss whatever we want on the rules, it there are childish, flaming, bashing comments it is because this is a community where people from all over the world gathers. There are moderators and rules, so if the non-aviation forum is going to be eliminated the only thing that it shows is the incompetence of those moderators to do his/her job.

On the other side, the closing of the forum may have some legal issues because this is a Payware site so if you don't get what you bought a reimbursement should be done, it is not that one day the owner decides to close it just because we woke up in the bad mood or because he hated something he read....

Juan
SKBO


User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 1 week ago) and read 2162 times:

Well, don't close the Non-Av Forum, but enforce the rules more...

User currently offlineSSTjumbo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 1 week ago) and read 2151 times:

I've mentioned this before, but I'm for a split in the Non-Av forum into a hot-button forum (i.e. politics, religion), and an all-else forum. This has been done on another large forum I participate in with marvelous results. However, a detailed explanation will be reserved for the site-related forum when the time comes around.

User currently offlineAirplay From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 week ago) and read 2142 times:

If you feel uncomfortable with the discussion in the non_av forums, then don't read them. If you have an uncontrollable urge to scold someone then do it elsewhere.

In my opinion its much more annoying to read inaccurate posts in the tech_op forum than discussions about politics here.



User currently offlineUSAirways737 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1026 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 week ago) and read 2128 times:

Why is it so hard for people to just not read the political ones if they don't want to? Don't ban it for the ones that actually conduct themselves with some decency.

Erik in MSN


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16335 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 week ago) and read 2115 times:

Since this is an AV site, I suggest the following:

No anet member can contribute MORE non-av than av related postings.

Perhaps this is impossible to manage/program. I do however see little value in any anet member who contributes 90% of their posts in non-av. WHy are these people on an av site?



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 1 week ago) and read 2101 times:

. WHy are these people on an av site?

Maybe because, in my case, I work for an airline, and I may find threads that inform me, or that I can contribute what knowledge I have. But since I don't feel like just talking "shop", it's nice to come over here, and discuss with people from around the world, different issues ,and seeing the different prespectives that I otherwise could never see.

To me, that alone is a good enough reason to keep it.


User currently offlineJasepl From India, joined Jul 2004, 3582 posts, RR: 39
Reply 12, posted (10 years 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2097 times:

End it? Of course not. What a stupid idea.

It's not as if anyone's being forced to read the posts on non-av, is it?


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16335 posts, RR: 56
Reply 13, posted (10 years 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2095 times:

Then why on an av-forum Alpha1? I would bet 98% of your posts are on non-av. Why not on a political blog site?

In response to the original question, I would also support removal of the non-av column, even though I do enjoy it. Or, as I suggested, limiting the non-av contribution on a per member basis.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineSchoenorama From Spain, joined Apr 2001, 2440 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (10 years 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2078 times:

I don't see any reasons at all to ban the political threads or to close the non-av forum all together.

I believe that when the forum-rules are applied in the same way by all moderators, the discussions on this board would not turn in to a flamewar by reply # 4! The rules on how to discuss and what can and what can't be said and done are there and are perfectly clear.

Perhaps adopting a more strict policy regarding temporary banning would help (eg. 3 posts completely off-topic = x days banned), but this can only be done when all moderators apply the existing rules equally.

I generally don't like the non-political threads, but I don't ask to ban them all together. I simply don't read them. Other people should try that.

Yyz717:

"No anet member can contribute MORE non-av than av related postings. "

That certainly is a way to lower the quality of the av-forums, as people would start to post just anything to be able to post on non-av. That's a ridiculuos idea and it would certainly annoy many on the av-forums who hardly ever read or post on non-av.



Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
User currently offlineCanadianNorth From Canada, joined Aug 2002, 3395 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (10 years 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2078 times:

Nooooooo dont end it!! If I remember right they closed the Non-av before, and it didn't go over all that well.

The problem wont be solved by ending the non-av. Putting more effort into making sure people follow the rules will definetly help, but just closing it up and pretending the problems never existed to begin with is a stupid idea.





CanadianNorth



What could possibly go wrong?
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16335 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (10 years 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2067 times:

"No anet member can contribute MORE non-av than av related postings. "

That certainly is a way to lower the quality of the av-forums


Yes, I see your point. I'm not necessarily advocating it, just a thought.

Realistically though, this is an AV site. To restrict it to av topics is not unreasonable, in theory.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (10 years 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2057 times:

Then why on an av-forum Alpha1? I would bet 98% of your posts are on non-av. Why not on a political blog site?

Because I genuinely like most of the members on here, even the ones I don't agree with. Is there a problem with that? I don't see one.


User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 47
Reply 18, posted (10 years 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2053 times:

I agree. The actions of a few shouldn't ruin it for the rest of us. As I said in a recent debate, the approach of "ban...ban....ban"....."more laws...more laws" is never the answer to any problem.

The only way to solve it is to better enforce the rules that are ALREADY IN PLACE and single out those who are creating the havoc.

The idea of closing Non-Av is a double-edged sword. On one hand, it IS Johans website and he can do whatever he wants.

But the flipside to that is that some of us are paying customers (First Class Membership) who pay for the use of this site, which includes the Non-Av.

If the general consensus is that we want to keep Non-Av open, maybe if all of us First Class members cancelled our memberships and Johan took a deep hit to the wallet, then maybe that would be a wake up call.

Of course, he IS from Sweden.....where Capitalism is not a high priority....

and the database is really the core of the site...so maybe he won't care.

But it is a suggestion.



User currently offlineMdsh00 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4128 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (10 years 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2047 times:

I came to this site because of my interest in aviation, and in process liked what I found on the non-av. I don't think that this forum should be closed down, even with its sometimes flaming political threads. Argument is a part of life and if the mods do their job and the people who don't want to read about politics don't read the thread, what is the problem?


"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (10 years 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2043 times:

Actually I like the Non Aviation Forum, here you can discuss about everything because here are members from (almost) all over the world who can answer your questions. Ok, a few (mostly racist) idiots are everywhere, so simply ignore them or press the "Suggest Deletion Button".

It seems that the "US political discussions" hype also slowed down (the elections are over), so no reason to close this forum!

Patrick


User currently offlineKYIPpilot From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1383 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (10 years 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2023 times:

Since this is an AV site, I suggest the following:

No anet member can contribute MORE non-av than av related postings.


That is not a good idea. I am an aspiring airline pilot. Although I know quite a bit about aviation, there is no way I could contribute what some others here know. I am here to learn as much as I can, and have some fun, too.

But back to topic, I really enjoy reading non-av. Where else can you interact with people around the world on a daily basis? There is a lot of great info in non-av, such as traveling info, etc. It is a great place to learn about anything and everything.

Please do not close the Non-av forum. Even though this is an aviation site, it would be a great loss to a.net.

And to those who want in closed, or to ban political discussion, I day this as nice as possible:

DO NOT COME IN NON-AV OR CLICK ON POLITICAL THREADS IF YOU DON'T WANT TO READ THEM. DO NOT RUIN IT FOR THOSE WHO ENJOY IT!!!!!!!!



"It starts when you're always afraid; You step out of line, the man come and take you away" -Buffalo Springfield
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21495 posts, RR: 53
Reply 22, posted (10 years 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2005 times:

If you close non-av, you´ll have non-av all over the place.

Similar effect as having a plugged sewer.

Still want to shut it down?  Wink/being sarcastic


User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3489 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (10 years 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2000 times:

I can't stand it when people complain about the non-aviation forum. If people don't like how heated the discussions get then don't come on. People shouldn't ruin it for those of us who enjoy it, like me.

Jeremy


User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (10 years 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1963 times:

I can't speak for anyone else, but I for one really enjoy the non-av forum, even more than the aviation one.

When I first started in the forums a year or so ago, I only knew of the aviation forum. After a while, it seemed like the same threads kept getting recycled, and after countless defending/explaining the United Airlines situation over and over again to no avail., I finally got burned out on the entire thread. Those "Peter Max" threads keep on going and going, ugggh...those and the NW DC-9's. Enough, already!  Nuts

I found the trip report forum, which I enjoy, but this forum allows me to "vent" on hot-button topics, but also learn and read about other members who I see posts from all the time. Nice to match a face/personality with a username. I also enjoy the "fun" topics, and the pictures that people post, especially those from eBaumsworld, just crack me up!  Laugh out loud Therapy after a tough day on a shitty job, trust me.  Insane And the emoticons...I love 'em! It really allows me to express my personality! (or lack thereof?  Insane  Laugh out loud )

I've always been respectful of others in this forum, despite how heated I might get on certain topics, and likewise...I've never been suspended for even a day.

Keep the forum. Enforce the rules. People who can't follow simple rules shouldn't be allowed to participate, period. It's as simple as that... Big grin


25 ConcordeBoy : don't close the Non-Av Forum, but enforce the rules more... ...you forgot "equally!"
26 Diamond : EQUAL ENFORCEMENT is exactly what it is all about. You cannot change the overall tone of this forum if rule violations are enforced selectively or inc
27 707cMf : I advocated in early 2004 to ban presidential threads from hte non av, as they were (already!) getting out of hand. The answer I received at the time,
28 Itsjustme : I'd be willing to bet that if you close the non av forum, you would see a significant drop in membership renewals. I, too, first signed on because the
29 J_hallgren : When I joined, it was because I had some AV questions that I needed answers to...which I got...I'm NOT a real AV person, just have some interest...so
30 ZKSUJ : Banning the Non Av forum is like taking Brisbane out of Australia. It is not the main forum (Civil Av is) but it is a big big part of a.net.
31 Post contains images OYRJA : most often they were from liberals in political threads...but I just put up with their lack of civility as I have to do with some people... LMAO!!! Ah
32 Ts-ior : The Non-Aviation forum should be kept. It is usual to see political and religious topics turning to disputes; users should keep a civilized manner of
33 Pelican : Don't eliminate it! If I don't like a topic I will avoid it. And not all political debates will end in flame wars. pelican
34 MerC : Of course, he IS from Sweden.....where Capitalism is not a high priority.... Care to back that up?
35 Virgin744 : Blah, blah....We've had this discussion countless times, and for those older members- they will remember the time when Johan closed the Non-AV forum.
36 7LBAC111 : Isn't this a funny place to post a thread wanting to end Non-Av when the vast majority of people in here kinda like to post in here? I'm thinking you
37 J.mo : Perhaps this is impossible to manage/program. I do however see little value in any anet member who contributes 90% of their posts in non-av. WHy are t
38 Ltbewr : I like the Non-Av fourm, especially as it does 2 functions: 1) all posts on subjects that may be on the edges of airline aviation can be put here, thu
39 Luv2fly : I have to agree with what both Diamond and what Falcon84 has already said. Though I wish this site had the ability to block the users that you did not
40 Logan22L : Hard to expand much on what has already been said, but it's nice to be able to develop a rapport with certain users with similar interests such as avi
41 Arcano : Why overruling a place if there's no actual need for that? I think all of us know what we can find here, which are the manners and sometimes things ca
42 Post contains images Thecoz : The system should be democratic. If more than a certain number of people suggest the deletion of a topic, and the moderator agrees, then the moderator
43 BN747 : I think that since there are some clearly divided camps that haunt (yes I'm in one of them) non-av... it would be pretty ridiculous to shutdown it bec
44 Dl021 : Here I am in 100% agreement with BN747....the non-av forum serves a beneficial purpose in keeping the arguments and non-aviation conversations off the
45 Itsjustme : Perhaps this is impossible to manage/program. I do however see little value in any anet member who contributes 90% of their posts in non-av. WHy are t
46 Aak777 : I have to disagree with the deletion cause it's one of the most active forums. Plus I see no harm in political discussions, as long as every one behav
47 Planespotterx : Ban political discussions in a NON-aviation discussion, and I thought this was the 21st century where people could freely air their political views wi
48 Blackbird1331 : I know Kerry and Bush wanted to post on the non-av forum but were in fear of being deleted. There needs to be a place where people can say what they w
49 AvObserver : NO, DON'T end the Non-Av forum but perhaps a separate forum for strictly political topics should be established to separate those often heated topics
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