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Theology And Medicine  
User currently offlineDavid b. From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3148 posts, RR: 5
Posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1353 times:

I was reading an article in the newspaper last night that a woman was denied her refill of birth control pills from her pharmacist in Fort Worth, Texas. Her pharmacist did not believe in "abortion", and was not dispensing the birth control pills. The woman had to wait to the next day to get the pills at another pharmacy and missed one day of her pills.

The article also noted that some pharmacists, in other states, were not refilling the birth control prescriptions, would not transfer the prescription to another pharmacy, and would not return the prescription to the women who had turned them into that pharmacist. A woman who heads an organization of pharmacists agrees with what the pharmacists are doing.

I can't believe that this is happening in this day. You would think people against abortion would make sure the birth control pill is being dispensed. I don't like the thought of abortion, but I don't think I am in a position to regulate someone else's life. It's getting pretty scary that pharmacists are being judgmental. What happens when doctors become judgmental over a patient's care-won't treat someone with STD's because of the person's supposed "lifestyle".

I noticed that Viagra wasn't listed as being one of the drugs pharmacists would not dispense. Viagra is usually covered in healthcare plans, and the birth control pill is not always covered.

I don't know what those people were thinking but it is not up to the pharmacists to decide what people do with their bodies.

What are you opinions on this?



Teenage-know-it-alls should be shot on sight
73 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAvt007 From Canada, joined Jul 2000, 2132 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1347 times:

I guess they don`t want condoms sold either? If that happened to me first I'd complain to the owners of the pharmacy, and depending on the mood I'm in I'd consider reporting him to the medical board that regulates pharmacists. It is extremely unprofessional behaviour IMO.

User currently offlineThecoz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1343 times:

That is 100% unprofessional. Any pharmacist who is insubordinate because of their beliefs needs to find another profession.

The doctor writes the perscription. The doctor is the one who must decide whether the person uses birth control pills; not the pharmacist.

If the doctor writes the perscription, it is the responsibility of the pharmacist to follow those directions excactly. They have no right to deviate in any way.


User currently offlineAir2gxs From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1330 times:

If the pharmacist is a religious person, whose religion forbids birth control, why should the pharmacist be required to fill the perscription? You are in effect asking the pharmacist to break faith with his or her religion.

I just read through the pharmacist's oath and code of ethics and could not find where it says the pharmacist must dispense any medication. In fact here's an excerpt:

VII. A pharmacist serves individual, community, and societal needs.

The primary obligation of a pharmacist is to individual patients. However, the obligations of a pharmacist may at times extend beyond the individual to the community and society. In these situations, the pharmacist recognizes the responsibilities that accompany these obligations and acts accordingly.

Anyone can read that and say that based on their belief system the dispensing of a certain drug would be contrary to what they feel is right for the community.

The pharmacist should return the perscription and refer the patient to a pharmacy that will dispense the drug.



User currently offlineSSTjumbo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1327 times:

I'm pro-life; however, the pharmacist upon accepting the job accepts the job description which includes dispensing legal perscription drugs to those who hold perscriptions, regardless of his moral beliefs. If it bothered me so much that I couldn't do the job, I'd quit. However, I see it as self-responsiblity for the one practicing birth control. If it doesn't affect their conscience, that's their business. To an extent, I can't get involved on that level (if I were in the pharmacist's shoes).

User currently offlineThecoz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1322 times:

If the pharmacist is a religious person, whose religion forbids birth control, why should the pharmacist be required to fill the perscription?


Many doctors are getting warnings from the DEA for perscribing controlled substances too liberally.

Notice how the DEA contacts the doctors to alleviate this problem, and not the pharmacist?


This crackpot should go to medical school if she's going to decide who gets a drug and who doesn't.

How can someone be so dense as to go through 5 years of school for pharmacology and not expect to be handing out drugs that are surrounded by controversy?

How does she feel about handing out perscriptions such as Oxycontin/Vicodin when there's proof that atleast 1% of the pills will be used recreationally? That wouldn't be very christian-like, would it.

The pharmacist who fills a medical marijuana perscription may not agree with the medicine, but it is simply not a part of their job to decide.




User currently offlineRedngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 45
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1310 times:

I've read several articles about this and here are my opinions:

Birth control pills
Refusing to fill a prescription: perhaps
Refusing to refer to another pharmacy: no
Refusing to give back the prescription: no

Morning After pill (RU-486)
Refusing to fill a prescription for the morning after pill: yes
Refusing to refer to another pharmacy: perhaps
Refusing to give back the prescription: no

OK, I am anti-abortion and all for personal responsibility regarding sexual intercourse. I'm not a pharmacist, but here's my logic:

Referring to another pharmacy: In my case, there are a half-dozen pharmacies within a 1/2 mile radius, so common sense tells me most people could walk out the door and find another place. If I was in a more remote area and didn't have a colleague available to fill the prescription, I might just have to bite the bullet and fill it.

Refusing to give back the prescription: A prescription is a doctor's order to a pharmacist according to what the doctor feels is in the patient's best interest, so if I refuse that order, I should allow the patient to seek another person for help. Holding on to or tearing up the prescription crosses the line in my opinion.


redngold



Up, up and away!
User currently offlineThecoz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1304 times:

Redngold, good point:

"Refusing to fill a prescription for the morning after pill: yes"

I could completely see the validity in that one.

tough call, it adds a lot of weight to the opposing agument...





User currently offlineMdsh00 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4124 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1304 times:

If the pharmacist is a religious person, whose religion forbids birth control, why should the pharmacist be required to fill the perscription?

B.S. A prescription is a written order from a doctor to fill a medication. It is the doctor's decision whether or not the patient. Even after that, the pharmacist refuses to fill the prescription he/she has no right to keep the patient from going to another pharmacist. Like other people said on here, if the pharmacist will let his/her personal beliefs keep others from getting the prescriptions they need, he/she is probably in the wrong profession.



"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
User currently offlineVneplus5 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1301 times:

I fail to see why the doctor can refuse to issue a prescription for any reason other than a purely medical one. I believe they can not refuse on their own 'moral' grounds. If I was a woman and a doctor refused me a prescription, I would see to it that he/she is struck-off by the regulating authority for gross misconduct.

Completely unrelated to that point, there are several reasons why a woman may need to go on the pill for non-contraceptive reasons. I personally know 3 ladies who take it to regulate their menstural cycles and reduce heavy/painful periods.

Two other colleagues of mine who are sailors take it because they spend many hours each day in dry-suits which increases the risk of toxic shock. The pill helps to reduce that risk.

The pharmacist doesnt know that. It's confidential between a patient and a doctor. The doctor is more qualified and knows the patient's whole story. The pharmacist simply has zero input into the process. There is the prescription. Give me the pills. I will give you money in return. Simple.


User currently offlineThecoz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1287 times:

That's true, the pharmacist often has only a vague notion as to what the medicine is being used for.

For instance, a doctor may perscrive Wellbutrin SR for depression. The pharmacist does not know if it is for depression or if it for smoking cessation.

What about RU-486? Does it have any alternative treatments other than "morning after"?


User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1272 times:

"B.S. A prescription is a written order from a doctor to fill a medication. It is the doctor's decision whether or not the patient."

My father is a pharmacist and he [as well as myself] is Christian Catholic [or Roman Catholic, if you want]. The prescription is NOT an "order". Only a Court of Law can issue an order. But in any case, if I admit that IS an order, is not addressed to an especific pharmacy or pharmacist. So she [or anybody else] may go to another pharmacy and get her refill.

If she missed "one day" of her "treatment", she may go two or three days before to see her doctor, obtain the prescription and the pills.

By the way. I'm a lawyer specialized in Private Law but according with my religious believes I can't divorce a couple previously married under the Catholic Church Laws. Why? Is a mortal sin if I do so, and I beleive in that.

If somebody don't like that, I respect his/her point of view, but I expect the same respect toward me.


User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1267 times:

Just an additional comment to my previous one.

The prescription is a written or verbal permit to sell some drugs. If the MD for any reason [e.g. error or whatever else ] state in the R/ a lethal doses, the pharmacist is obligated not to dispense such prescription.

Why am I saying that? Because is directly related with the patient's life. Otherwise, releasing a prescription with a lethal doses, that put in risk a human life, is a felony.


User currently offlineMdsh00 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4124 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1264 times:

By the way. I'm a lawyer specialized in Private Law but according with my religious believes I can't divorce a couple previously married under the Catholic Church Laws. Why? Is a mortal sin if I do so, and I beleive in that.

If somebody don't like that, I respect his/her point of view, but I expect the same respect toward me.


Okay, so you are right about the role of the pharmacist in not being obliged to fill the prescription. But like you just said about your beliefs with Catholics getting divorced, would it be right for you to deny them a referral to another lawyer?



"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (9 years 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1247 times:

If someone has moral qualms about some kind of act such as filling a perscription or participating in a civil divorce between two Catholics, the central questions that need to be asked are:

1. Is your direct participation necessary for the act to take place, or is it likely to happen regardless of whether you particpate or not?

2. If you do participate, are you certain that the person you help will use your assistance for immoral ends?

If you answer 'yes' to either one of these questions, then you are morally culpable for cooperating in the act.

In the first instance, By declining to do the act yourself but refer them on to someone else, you are not morally culpable because the act probably would have happend regardless of your participation. This, in Moral Theology, is called formal cooperation.

Or in terms of the second, would you give your car keys to someone you are sure is going to use the car to rob a bank? If that person uses your car to rob that bank, then under criminal law you are an accessory. This is known as material cooperation. Confulsed?

Hope this helps (really!)

Charles, SJ

[Edited 2004-11-24 18:08:21]


The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlineTeva From France, joined Jan 2001, 1869 posts, RR: 16
Reply 15, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1222 times:

This message is not about the pill, but related to the rights of women.
And it is not intended to start a battle, but to open eyes, minds, and hearts.
I can understand that some people are against abortion and will refuse it for themsleves.
However, if you call yourself a "pro-life" , Here are some statistics that you can think about.
Abortion has been legalised in france 30 years ago.
Before this law, there were around 300 000 illegal abortion. Because it was illegal, there was a lot of women dying, or losing the possibility of having a kid later. And a lot of women in jail.
During the discussion of the law, a lot of catholic deputies were affraid that there would be a boom in the numbers.
Where are we today? The number is only 200 000. And you don't have all those death, and woman can have a baby later.

In other words, it is not because something is legal that everyone does it. But be sure the day you make it illegal, problems will overcome benefits.
(on a different subject, look at the results of prohibition)

Now, for your topic: for me, a pharmacist has to execute a prescription made by a doctor, unless the doctor has made a mistake, such as 2 incompatible drugs. If he cannot do this, he does another job.
A doctor can not be forced to do an abortion. but if he accepts (and in France, some doctors accept, even if they don't like to do it), they have to be respected, because they protect life of women and future children.
Teva



Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1214 times:

"Okay, so you are right about the role of the pharmacist in not being obliged to fill the prescription. But like you just said about your beliefs with Catholics getting divorced, would it be right for you to deny them a referral to another lawyer?"

Definitely NO. I can refer her/him to a non Catholic lawyer. Or she/he can choose another one by him/herself.



User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 17, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1209 times:

If the pharmacist is a religious person, whose religion forbids birth control, why should the pharmacist be required to fill the perscription? You are in effect asking the pharmacist to break faith with his or her religion.

Ugh. Such utter crap.

If your religion prevents you from doing your job, you should do another job. Your religious interests are of no object to me if I've come to your licensed facility to receive the treatment my doctor wrote.

If you can't do it, make way for someone who can. This person should be stripped of his license.

N


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13804 posts, RR: 63
Reply 18, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1207 times:

I had a similar situation in rural western Ireland a few years ago, when I went to a village pharmacy close to the pilgrimage town of Knock to buy some condoms. The pharmacist told me he doesn´t stock ANY birth control devices because they were against his belief. Tough shit if it is the only pharmacy around and also pubs don´t have them.
Another story from a married German lady who used to live in Connemara, Co. Galway. She already had three children, being herself at the age of thirty and didn´t want any more. The doctor refused to prescribe the pill because it was against her belief and because "the lady was still young enough to have plenty more children". Only problem that she was the only gynaecologist within 20 miles.

Jan


User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1200 times:

If you can't do it, make way for someone who can. This person should be stripped of his license.

The role of a professional is not simply to fulfill the demands of their clients, nor is it appropriate to demand of someone a particular act or service that violates personal morality. The law does allow for personal refusal of certain acts such as performing abortions as a matter of conscience. If an individual cannot fulfill a request due to moral qualms they can refer to a colleague, and in most cases this is reasonable.

Or to put it another way, how would you feel if someone forced you to do something you cannot in good conscience perform?

'I want' is not and should not be the sole consideration. The point instead is to try and balance personal autonomy and personal morality. We don't always get it right, but that is, in essence the goal.

Charles, SJ

(Edit for clarification)

[Edited 2004-11-26 20:08:27]


The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 20, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1183 times:


Or to put it another way, how would you feel if someone forced you to do something you cannot in good conscience perform?


I would never put myself in a the position in the first place, and if I had for whatever reason, I would never allow my personal positions to interfere with my profession.

If an individual cannot fulfill a request due to moral qualms they can refer to a colleague, and in most cases this is reasonable.

It sounds as if this didn't happen. This person's goal was to enforce his beliefs on other people, not conscientiously object by referring their business elsewhere.

This is getting out of hand across America. Religious individuals are becoming more brazen in their attempts to enforce their system of belief as the only valid one, and the one by which all other Americans must behave.

It has to be put to an end. People need to start having their livelihood threatened if they insist on continuing this moral imperialism.

What if I had HIV, and had presented myself at the pharmacy because it was the only one in the area? What then, if the person disapproved of my lifestyle and refused to dispense the medication, and I missed an entire day? That could be permanently damaging to me.

If something like that were to happen, I would want that pharmacist held criminally negligent. There's only a very fine line between what I've depicted and what happened in the situation above.

N


User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1175 times:

I would never put myself in a the position in the first place, and if I had for whatever reason, I would never allow my personal positions to interfere with my profession.

Few people would. If you are forced to do so by a third party (say a government) that is when the problems arise.

It sounds as if this didn't happen. This person's goal was to enforce his beliefs on other people, not conscientiously object by referring their business elsewhere.

I agree. There is a difference between standing up for what you believe in, and trying to force others to do so. Even then it's not straightforward, and can get very murky.

Charles, SJ



The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7934 posts, RR: 54
Reply 22, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1171 times:

I'm going to bed now. But as I do so, it is with a sigh of relief that I live on this side of the pond, and these superstitious religious beliefs have been consigned to history over here. You Americans can keep fighting over god (actually I thought y'all went over there so you didn't have to fight over god, but anyway), but it makes you weak and divided.

This abortion thing has to be put aside - as Teva said, when abortion was legalised in France, the number of times it happened dropped by a third and safe medical procedures meant women were protected. No-one in the debate over there (USA) gives a shit about the living, or women, it's worse than the Taleban. The entire dialogue is between middle aged white men who look like John Ashcroft, they've probably had sex five times in their lives and never listened to a woman ever. They know nothing and care nothing for women or their society, it's only about them and their (made-up) god. Not what America is about, folks.

PS Gigneil, you made my RR list.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1162 times:

Cedarjet,

I lived in London for 8 years, and my conclusion is the British care more about their animals than they do about each other.

But then, we could both be wrong.  Big grin

Charles, SJ



The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7934 posts, RR: 54
Reply 24, posted (9 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1150 times:

Ctbarnes: actually, I think we're both right. The British can care for each other as little as they want, as long as they leave god and other superstitions out of it. And boy oh boy, is this a nation of dog lovers or what?

Cheers for lightening the tone, you're a funny guy.

Charles, London.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
25 Air2gxs : Cedar, A point: The early colonists came over so that the could practice religious freedom without government intervention (and to make a buck, let's
26 TACAA320 : "If your religion prevents you from doing your job, you should do another job. Your religious interests are of no object to me if I've come to your li
27 MD11Engineer : Air2gxs, Don´t forget that the pilgrim fathers came from Elisabethian England because she wouldn´t let them burn Catholic churches to stamp out "Pap
28 Gigneil : A point: The early colonists came over so that the could practice religious freedom without government intervention (and to make a buck, let's not for
29 Captoveur : The point that seems to be getting missed here is the fact that birth control pills are not always prescribed JUST for birth control purposes. Sometim
30 Ctbarnes : The doctor knows these reasons, the pharmacist does not, when pharmacists start thinking they are doctors peoples health and well being starts to be a
31 Mt99 : What about the attendant at McDonald who refused to give the Big Mac meal to the overweight man?
32 Bhill : This person should be fired. Yes, the Pharmacist can question or consult the Doctor if there are questions about the directions or dose..or to notify
33 Ctbarnes : So by this logic, if the physician perscribied a legal dose of amphetimines for assisted suicide purposes, the pharmacist would have to fill the persc
34 Bhill : Ctbarnes, Amphetamines are not the drug of choice for making someone terminally sleepy, it's a stimulant. Also, it's a moot point as "assisted suicide
35 Post contains images Ctbarnes : Amphetamines are not the drug of choice for making someone terminally sleepy, it's a stimulant. My bad. I meant barbituates. Also, it's a moot point a
36 Csavel : I think in all fairness, if an pharmacist has an issue with dispensing certain drugs, there should be a sign right at the counter. Then the customer c
37 Bhill : Ctbarnes, my bad you're right, I forgot about Oregon. Either way, if the Doctor and patient agree on a plan of care, and it's legal, there should be n
38 Post contains images Ctbarnes : Ctbarnes, my bad you're right, I forgot about Oregon. Guess that makes us even! Still, laws governing professions do allow for refusal to perform cert
39 Captoveur : I don't know about you guys, but I have had some pretty shitty jobs in my life. In the last one I was a telemarketer, I did not agree with anything I
40 Ctbarnes : Something just hit me about this: There is a difference between being an professional and an employee. Being a professional means you have been traine
41 TACAA320 : "BTW TACAA320, a prescription IS an order, please note: pre·scribe ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pr-skrb) v. pre·scribed, pre·scrib·ing, pre·scribes v
42 Whitehatter : Something just struck me about this... Her pharmacist did not believe in "abortion", and was not dispensing the birth control pills. um...birth contro
43 TACAA320 : Whitehatter I was not aware of that. But I tend to agree with you. There is no specific relation between "abortion" and "prevention with birth control
44 Solnabo : NO, absolutley NO doctor or nurse are to mix religion/medicine in their beliefs when it comes to abortions....period! Dont you have the day-after pill
45 TACAA320 : "This is my strong belifs in theology and medicine. I know it´s illegal to have abortion in many countrys, just becouse of ideolgy." Yes, is illegal
46 Yukimizake : "This is getting out of hand across America. Religious individuals are becoming more brazen in their attempts to enforce their system of belief as the
47 Post contains images Solnabo : You can discuss when life becomes life in a womb ´til U get blue in the face. And I say what Fay Dunaway said in Mommie Dearest: NO WIREHANGERS!! Jus
48 TACAA320 : If they sell their babies in Romania for a nickel how can they buy birth control pills ? Or are you talking about abortion?
49 Solnabo : TACAA320: They are too poor to buy the b-c pill, thats why this tragedy happends every day. This family was living in a shack w 15 kids outside Buchar
50 TACAA320 : Solnabo That's really sad. But even worst is the situation of thousand [maybe millions in Asia and Africa]. Children, women dealing with AIDS. No acce
51 Cha747 : Solnabo - being in the field, I agree with you but many of my colleagues do not and actually DO mix their beliefs about theology and medicine. A coupl
52 TACAA320 : Withehatter is correct. Abortion and control pills are not related. Or she takes her pills to avoid pregnancy, or she is pregnant and need an abortion
53 Post contains images Solnabo : What I mean is that NO man in a long cloak in a church are to tell women what to do, its entierly up to the girl / woman to have the choise what to do
54 TACAA320 : "What I mean is that NO man in a long cloak in a church are to tell women what to do, its entierly up to the girl / woman to have the choise what to d
55 Post contains images Solnabo : I dont know how you read theology in Costa Rica, or whatever you re living! X-use me, but what do you mean by "you MUST do it, or accept later youre r
56 Ctbarnes : We all seen what happends to abortionclinics and doctors in US: the getting bombed and shoot at by the anti-abortion lobby! Is that fair? Dont know ho
57 TACAA320 : "I dont know how you read theology in Costa Rica, or whatever you re living!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------
58 Solnabo : Do U got the pill or is that illegal too? Do they sell condoms? Thats good if you can get help the children, but if you´re risking youre life then so
59 Ctbarnes : I say that the christian anti-abortion lobby are criminals, murderers....you name it!!! In the name of God: spare me this cow manure, please! I think
60 TACAA320 : "Do U got the pill or is that illegal too? Do they sell condoms?" If a woman needs pills, and got a prescription, yes. Condoms, yes. But Catholics are
61 Captoveur : Are you suggesting all Catholics are in favor of bombing abortion clinics and shooting doctors? SOME may very well be. I don't think anyone can speak
62 Yukimizake : "If a woman needs pills, and got a prescription, yes. Condoms, yes. But Catholics are not supposed to use them as a contraceptive.' Not supposed to he
63 TACAA320 : "Not supposed to hence unwanted large families, what a bunch of losers. I forget who said it, but I heard this great quote; Religion gives hope when t
64 Yukimizake : "What a great quote and you don't even know the author. I simply find it pathetic." Err, well, the friend who told me this a few days ago wasn't sure
65 Post contains images TACAA320 : "You're a lawyer?, really? You're joking, right?" Guess what?
66 Post contains images TACAA320 : "Err, well, the friend who told me this a few days ago wasn't sure of who originally said this. But as you agree it is a great quote. So how is this p
67 Yukimizake : First you say this; "What a great quote and you don't even know the author" Then you say this; "But I still see that such quote is pathetic" Could you
68 TACAA320 : ". BTW TACAA320, a prescription IS an order, please note: pre·scribe ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pr-skrb) v. pre·scribed, pre·scrib·ing, pre·scribes
69 Post contains images Solnabo : Charles SJ: Read newspaper and TV news, I´ll promise you, many christians arent gods children....... Micke//SE
70 Post contains images TACAA320 : Solnabo, I bet you are a good kid between 76 and 85 of age [according to your profile].
71 Ctbarnes : I´ll promise you, many christians arent gods children What about the ones who are? What criteria should be be basing this on? Charles, SJ
72 Yukimizake : Hey Taca, until now you've been pretty quick to respond to and refute most people's posts in this thread. Aren't you going to respond to my reply #67?
73 TACAA320 : Sorry, when you said "Seriously, you are a lawyer?" I don't get it as question. I did it as an affirmation. My mistake. But yes. "Seriously, I'm a law
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