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Notre Dame Fires Willingham  
User currently offlineUsairwys757 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1216 times:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=1935138

After just 3 seasons ND fired Ty Willingham. Just goes to show the expectations of that school. He went 21-15.

ESPN reports that the frontrunner will probably be Urban Meyer of Utah to replace him.

42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSaxdiva From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2382 posts, RR: 42
Reply 1, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1210 times:

Man, I wish UCLA would get off the dime and grab him. But apparently, the A.D. isn't as tired of all the mediocrity as the fans...  Insane

-Leanne


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1200 times:

I disagree with his termination. I've been a fan of NF football for years and since he came to ND three years ago you could see a change in the team. The kids where playing harder, the students loved him and from what I was reading.. recrutment was increasing. They have a good young QB and lots of room to improve. They beat some good teams this year, and their losses where all to top teams.


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineTom in NO From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 7194 posts, RR: 32
Reply 3, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1190 times:

It'll be interesting to see who the Candleburners will come up who will get a greater support from his players and the fans. The list is likely very, very short.

Just goes to show that it's all about wins and losses. Apparently there's no margin for building a winner. The friggin' alumni wants their success now, not later.

Tom at MSY



"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
User currently offlineTYSGoVols From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 634 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1188 times:

What the heck. Ty was a dang good coach. He went through a tough rebuilding year last year and this year was pretty good. They beat some pretty good teams hint hint read my name. They beat some dang good teams and now they fire him. What the heck Notre Dame you are full of crap.

<>< Garen



Rocky Top You'll Always be home sweet home to me, Good ole' Rocky Top WOOOOO
User currently offlineDl021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 5, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1177 times:
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I think that Notre Dame should have given the guy another year to make the mark. He showed improvement and had done a good job with recruiting, which was an area ND has been losing ground in. Anyone else now will have to start from less than scratch with recruiting because parent will be less trusting of someone new when sending their kids off to school.

When you bring someone in to bring your program out of the doldrums you have to give the guy enough time to get the job done. ND alums are living in the past, and I think they fail to understand the new situation in college football.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1169 times:

Hey VOLS..

As a Notre Dame fan living in Nashville and being very anti UT, I was so thrilled when they beat UT two weeks ago. That was a game won on defense. But I agree with everything you said...... I would have liked to have seen that team next year with Ty.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlinePresRDC From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 661 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 1159 times:

As a Notre Dame Double Domer (Class of 1999 and Law School Class of 2002) I am 100% in favor of the decision to fire Ty. Without a doubt he was/is a class act who represented the Univeristy well. However, he has not improved -- the team has done worse (okay, we have a better record than last year, but 6-5 still is dismal).

Most of the discussion among alums that I've been privy to has focused less on Ty as a coach, but on the opportunity to get Urban Meyer, which may well not be there next year. Coupled with the poor record this season (beating Michigan and Tenn was great, but losing to Pitt, B.C. and Purdue at home in the same season was unacceptable), now was the time to act to ensure that the athletes, students, alums and subway alums have the coach they deserve.

As for us "friggin'" alums wanting success now, keep in mind that we have not won a National Championship since 1988 (although we should have won in 1993, but were unjustly robbed). We have lived through five seasons of Bob Davie and three of Ty. We have waited long enough. Notre Dame is a very special place that demands and expects excellence in everything from academics to community service to athletics. To be satisfied with a 6-5 season and blow-out losses would be going against the core values of the Univeristy.

As for Ty's support among students, there was supposed to be a large student rally this evening demanding Ty's removal.



[Edited 2004-12-01 01:09:48]

User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 1152 times:

...although we should have won in 1993, but were unjustly robbed...

You got that right......!!!!! That was the year Florida State and Notre Dame went tooth and nail all season....and Notre Dame 'BEAT' Florida State. Both teams finished with one loss. Because ND lost the next week to Boston College.. the Championship went to Florida State. Anyone that watched the ND-BC game saw a WAY better and harder fought then the Florida State game, with Boston College winning on a field goal with seconds left.

[Edited 2004-12-01 01:42:49]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineNDSchu777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 419 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1135 times:

I definitely think Ty is a great person and an excellent representative of the Notre Dame off the field, but his performance on the field wasn't at the same level.

Willingham had a great 8-0 start to his career in 2002 and it seemed like things were turning the corner, but things have changed for the worse since then. The team has gone 13-15 since then and suffered 8 blow-out losses by more than 3 touchdowns. And last year under Willingham was one of the lowest ranked recruiting classes in a very long time.

Like most ND fans, I was extatic for those first 8 wins, but in the back of my mind I was a little concerned with how close many of those games were, but I didn't care because we were winning. The flaws of the system were exposed near the end of the 2002 season and it's been down hill from there. At the beginning I was in denial, and trying to make excuses like a lot of people, that we just needed to give it time and wait for Ty's "system" and recruits to get into place. Last season was horrible with blow-out after blow-out and it was getting harder and harder to make excuses. Following that was the lowest ranked recruiting ND has brought in in decades. Prior to that we consistantly brought in top 10 recruiting classes.

This season was going to be the true test if this coaching staff could return ND to the school it once was. ND pulled a big upsets over Michigan and Tennessee and proved there is a talented team that could motivate itself to win big. However losses to easier opponents like Bringham Young, Pittsburgh, Boston College, and Purdue and then getting absolutely humiliated for the 3rd year in a row by USC showed that the coaching staff was making huge mistakes in play-calling and under-utilizing the potential of the talented players on the team. The team has appeared to regress under this staff and no end was in sight.

I also felt a lot more concern about the assistant coaches on the staff, namely Bill Dietrich the OC and Buzz Preston, the Special Teams Coach who had no special teams experience (as obvious from their performance). While I like Willingham, it was obvious these were some very weak links on the team last year, but he refused to replace him. And the only person you can hold accountable for the coaching staff selection is the head coach.

I think after the BC game this year I gave up on this staff. I thought that a coaching change was necessary but was shocked that the administration at ND actually went through and let the staff go now.

Unlike Bob Davie, people genuinely liked Willingham, and truly wanted to see him succeed at Notre Dame. But the performance wasn't showing it. Bob Davie at least followed his losing seasons with considerably decent seasons. A 6-5 season isn't much of an improvement over last year.

3 years is a good evaluation point of coaches too. Look what Pete Carroll did at USC and Bob Stoops did at Oklahoma in their first 3 years and compare that to Willingham. Look what Lou Holz and Ara Parseghian did in their first 3 years to turn around ND in the past. Look what Urban Meyer is doing at Utah now in his first 2 years there. Someone like him have great potential to do it at Notre Dame.

At the same time everyone's making a big deal about Willingham being fired after 3 years, where are the complaints about Ron Zook at Florida or Buddy Teavens at Stanford getting fired in their 3rd year. I don't remember USC being too sad to see Paul Hackett get fired in his 3rd year, especially after bringing Carroll in? Or better yet the complaints about Solich getting fired at Nebraska after a 9-3 season, much less a losing season followed by a mediocre 6-5 one?

Again, I wish Willingham could have been one of the great ND coaches, but in 3 years ND has regressed and run in circles. I wish him the best in his next position (I hear Washington is highly interested in him). And I hope ND finds the next Lou, Ara, Leahy, or Rockne in the coming days and weeks!

Hey, PresRDC it's great to see another Domer on the board. I just graduated this past May!

GO IRISH!
Nick


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1126 times:

I definitely think Ty is a great person and an excellent representative of the Notre Dame off the field, but his performance on the field wasn't at the same level.

Hard to tell when he didn't get a chance to see his first recruiting class make it to it's senior year.

Unfortunately, Notre Dame has become so full of itself that if a guy doesn't win all the time, he won't have a chance to grow the program. Who in their right mind would want to go to a program so quick to pull the plug on anything you try to do.

In the college game, you need at least 4 years to get the program in the direction you want it, with your kind of people. Notre Dame panicked, and they fired one of the best coaches in the nation. Ty will land a great job somewhere very soon (Florida?), and Notre Dame will continue to be stuck in mediocrity, because it can no longer attract the top players in the nation.

Just another reason to hate a program I already loathed.

Big mistake, Irish fan. You'll regret you let this gem go.

And yes, I was glad USC ran the score up on ND, even though I like Ty a lot.


User currently offlineArch89U From United States of America, joined May 2001, 188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1117 times:

As a current student at Notre Dame, the sentiment here is that Ty had his fair shot and just couldn't cut it.

The main problem I saw with Ty is that the players could motivate themselves for the big games such as Michigan and Tennessee, but were woefully flat when it came to games against such teams as Pittsburgh and BC.

As for the student rally that was planned for tonight, there was going to be a giving back of the "return to glory" shirts that were made before the 10-2 2002 season. We were going to lay down the shirts on the steps of the Dome to make our point.

The players are upset over the sudden firing, and not eager to have to prove themselves to a new coach and learn a new system, but it will be better in the long run to get rid of Ty and try for more success in the next few years.

Additionally, students in Morrissey and St. Ed's hall (two dorms on campus) had hung "Fire Ty" signs in their dorms starting after the loss to BC.

Everyone here also refers to the great coach Ara Parseghian when he said "if you can't get it done in three years, you will never get it done."

Lets start the Urban Renewal.


User currently offlinePresRDC From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 661 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1097 times:

As a former Manorite, it is good to see The Manor take the lead in the anti-Ty campaign. I also love the idea with the Return to Glory t-shirts, although I think they will be valuable collectors items (right up there with the "By George It's O'Leary" shirts).

User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1095 times:

As a current student at Notre Dame, the sentiment here is that Ty had his fair shot and just couldn't cut it.

A "fair" shot isn't 3 seasons. A college coach at a major program, unless he is winning only 2 or 3 games, should have at least 4 years-to see his first recruiting class reach it's senior season, and to fully impliment his schemes. Three years isn't enough time.

As for Urban Meyer, if he has to choose between ND and UF, he'll take UF, because it's inherently easier to build a winning program. Notre Dame's "mystique" died years ago, and no decent coach would go to ND, especilly with the hair-trigger administration there.

I still feel part of this is due to the fact that Ty wasn't their first choice, and that some old-fashioned types still prefer good old white, Irish-sounding coaches. Sorry, but that's the truth.


User currently offlineUSAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 53
Reply 14, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1092 times:

This is almost as bad as Nebraska firing Solich last year...college expectations for their coaches are getting a little ridiculous...

Greg



Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
User currently offlineArch89U From United States of America, joined May 2001, 188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1081 times:

Falcon84, I hate to say it, but you are completely and utterly wrong on two of your three points.

First, Urban Meyer's out clause involves three midwestern schools, Ohio State, Michigan, and Notre Dame. There is no SEC clause in his contract, leading me to believe that he wants to coach in the Midwest and not at Florida. Urban will take the job here, because Notre Dame will make the better offer.

Secondly, Ty was not fired because he was black or as you said to get back to good old Irish sounding coaches. Everyone here thought Ty was an excellent representative of the ideas of Notre Dame and as NDSchu777 said, people genuinely wanted him to succeed here. Ty was a great man off the field and people appreciated his good standing, but he could not get it done on the field.

Additionally, whether this decision was going to be made yesterday or two years down the road, it was going to be made. Ty was not going to resurrect the Irish, and it will be nice if Meyer can get the job done.


User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6818 posts, RR: 34
Reply 16, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1079 times:

We have waited long enough. Notre Dame is a very special place that demands and expects excellence in everything from academics to community service to athletics. To be satisfied with a 6-5 season and blow-out losses would be going against the core values of the Univeristy.

Come down off that high horse and smell reality.

The reality, that Paul Hornung stated and was nuked for it, is that ND can't recruit like the football factories because of their standards.

So do you want to have National Championships, or do you want to adhere to the true student-athlete model?

ND is finding out you can't have it both ways. I admire ND for keeping the bar high (which was lowered by Holtz BTW, or else the football program would have sucked long before now), but to demand "excellence" in every regard just isn't going to happen.

In this case, it is a zero sum game.


User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1077 times:

Excellent crackback Slider. That "we have waited long enough" crap is pathetic. I will touch up Arch too once I get some more time.

User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6818 posts, RR: 34
Reply 18, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1075 times:

Excellent crackback Slider. That "we have waited long enough" crap is pathetic.

Hehe....I couldn't resist.  Smile

I have friends, co-workers, colleagues who are all ND alums. Mostly good people, but there is a great deal of pretentious prickishness as if the whole damn world of industry, business, law, athletics, whatever should all bow down and worship almighty Notre Dame. Give me a break! I get tired of that "our shit doesn't stink" routine from the Golden Domers.



User currently offlinePresRDC From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 661 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1067 times:

The stakes in this are huge and just for ND. The issue is can a school maintain high academic standards and still be an elite football program. What a sad commentary on the state of college athletics if the answer is no. If the answer is no, then one must ask why. Do we really want to say that football players are not smart enough to survive at top academic schools? Are we comfortable with the racial overtones of that line of thinking?

Notre Dame is able to excel in sports other than football while maintaining its high academic standards. With the exception of basketball (which is improving each year), ND dominates the Big East. We have won National Championships in both women's soccer and women's basketball in recent years. Why can't football preform on the same level.


User currently offlineNDSchu777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 419 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1059 times:

The whole "Notre Dame Can't Recruit Top Players Anymore" thing is a big myth. Despite the more stringent academic standards, colder climate, or whatever other excuses people throw out there, Notre Dame has still managed to pull in some of the country's top recruiting classes. Last year was the first time in decades that the in-coming class was not ranked in the Top 10. Obviously the coaching staffs under Davie and Willingham over the past 10 years haven't been able to fully develop the top 10 raw talent and turn it into top 10 performers.

This fact proves that it's poor coaching and not poor recruiting that has been to blame for the last decade of mediocre performance. And again, this year's considerably lower ranked class shows (along with the way the next class is shaping up) that the recruits aren't pouring in mainly as a reaction to the poor performance on the field. With recruiting finally being affected negatively, the program was heading in a further downward spiral. And now ND is taking a stand and hopefully will fix it with a competent coaching staff that will get the players to live up to their full potential.

And if you don't believe me, here's a summary of numbers that someone compiled on an ND fan website.

-Nick

The data below represents volumes of hard data compiled on thousands of high school football players by Parade, SuperPrep, Lemming, Emfinger, G&W Recruiting Advisor, Prepstar, AND Rivals over the past 5 years, with no thought to bolstering anyone's argument for this Saturday's ND-USC game.

OFFENSE

ND - SC
QB Quinn (12) - Leinart (9),
BACKS Walker (13)/Grant (25)/P-Neal (36) - White (7)/Bush (5)/Webb (253)
WR Stovall (4)/McKnight (9)/Holiday (8)/Samardzija (22) - Smith (3)/Buchanan (23)/McFay (76)/Jarrett (4)
TE Fasano (8) - Holmes (5)
OL Sullivan (3)/LeVoir (4)/Morton (14)/Harris (18)/Stevenson (19) - Lutui (4)/Matua (12)/Baker (15)/Kalil (34)/Drake (113)

DEFENSE

DL Abiamiri (1)/Pauly (4)/Landri (5)/Tuck (16) - Cody (1)/Jackson (6)/Patterson (140)/Rucker (Unranked)
LB Goolsby (4)/Curry (25)/Hoyte (29) - Grootegood (3)/Santz (23)/Tatupu (Unranked)
CB Campbell (18)/Ellick (Unranked)/Jackson (69) - Wyatt (25)/Nunn (165)
S Zbikowski (9)/Burrell (21) - Bing (4)/Leach (29)

As expected USC ranks very well in the rankings for their overall recruit classes over the last 5 years (based on a composite of these same top 6 recruiting services, including Rivals) that comprise their 2004 squad = 11, 13, 7, 1, 1 for a very low total of 33 recruit points or an average of 6.6 per year. Very few teams in the country could match such impressive numbers. Surprisingly however, ND is one of those teams. In fact ND had an even lower 6, 5, 5, 3 (for a best-in-the-country average of 4.8) prior to Ty's last #17 ranked class that brought the 2004 team total recruit points up to 36 - for a still very low average of 7.2.


User currently offlineUsairwys757 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1055 times:

Poor coaching??? He didnt have the damn time to coach HIS team that he recruited. You ND alums and fans are just delusional. A football team is not built overnight, it takes 4-5 years. He improved his record this year over last.

It wasnt poor coaching that was the problem, Tyrone Willingham is a first class coach.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1043 times:

First, Urban Meyer's out clause involves three midwestern schools, Ohio State, Michigan, and Notre Dame. There is no SEC clause in his contract

So? I don't thnk that means much of anything. If that were such a big deal, his name wouldn't keep coming up for the UF job. But it does keep coming up, and I think if he was courted by UF, he'd take it in a heartbeat over the flailing fortunes at ND.

Urban will take the job here, because Notre Dame will make the better offer.

On what level? In recruiting players-hell, UF has all the talent in the world in it's backyard. On the likelihood of winning championships? ND hasn't been a player on the national scene in a decade. UF is consistently in the top 25, and a major player. In salary? Don't bet on it. UF has deep pockets, and they'll make an offer as good or better than ND.

Ty was a great man off the field and people appreciated his good standing, but he could not get it done on the field.

That's a joke, sorry to say. On a top-tier progam, as I said, you cannot give a coach anything less than at least 4 or 5 seasons to see how he can shape a program. You just can't. And now you'll never know what a good thing you let go.

Had Ty not gotten any further by the '06 season, then yes, I can see getting rid of him. But, in 3 years? On a progam that hasn't done anything in a decade? Come on! That's just ludicrous.

And I love ND Fan and Administration saying what a great representative of ND that Ty was-what a class act he was. And you got rid of him? ROTFL. The laughs on Irish fan, no one else.

The whole "Notre Dame Can't Recruit Top Players Anymore" thing is a big myth.

The record over the past decade speaks to the contrary. One reason they can't, and in a way I hope they don't change this, is they keep higher acedemic standards. That is THE primary reason-because a lot of kids can't cut the grade, literally, at South Bend.

Face it Irish Nation, you guys blew it, and blew it big time. And you won't get Urban, either. He's going to UF or somewhere else. If he ends up at ND, I wish him well.


User currently offlineMdsh00 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4125 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1039 times:

As for us "friggin'" alums wanting success now, keep in mind that we have not won a National Championship since 1988 (although we should have won in 1993, but were unjustly robbed). We have lived through five seasons of Bob Davie and three of Ty. We have waited long enough. Notre Dame is a very special place that demands and expects excellence in everything from academics to community service to athletics. To be satisfied with a 6-5 season and blow-out losses would be going against the core values of the Univeristy.

Yes well us at UCLA haven't won a Basketball championship since '95 (and BBall means a lot here) but there is no reason to be impatient and get rid of someone with potential. This stuff takes time but apparently ND just can't wait. In the end, it might take Notre Dame longer to become big again since it will take a new coach about 2-3 recruiting classes to actually have an effect on the team.



"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8507 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1033 times:

Just another football factory:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=grant/041201

Rudy II:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=caple/041201


25 Post contains images KROC : Falcon84, I hate to say it, but you are completely and utterly wrong on two of your three points. Falcon is usually wrong with about 66% of his opinio
26 PresRDC : "And Notre Dame dominence in the Big East? Does someone actually believe that?????" There are other sports in the Big East than basketball. My point w
27 KROC : Yeah, you also mentioned Soccer as a "sport". You lost it there, and lets face it, basketball, baseball and especially football are the main college s
28 Arch89U : One final point. Two years down the road, when this decision would have definitely been made, ESPN.com and the like would be saying that Ty had been g
29 Post contains images Falcon84 : One final point. Two years down the road, when this decision would have definitely been made, ESPN.com and the like would be saying that Ty had been g
30 Post contains images Slider : I've updated my resume. Signed, George O'Leary
31 Srbmod : I've updated my resume. Signed, George O'Leary I was wondering how long it would take for him to get mentioned. In some ways, there really was not muc
32 PresRDC : It's more than a few down years, that's the problem. Ty was the victim of bad timing. He took over program after a bleak five year stretch under Bob D
33 Slider : What pisses me off is that Willingham rocked his first season- the Golden Domers were all jacking off and talking smack about how ND football was back
34 NDSchu777 : Still, ND people need to realize the glory days are over and probably aren't coming back. People were saying the same thing in 1964 and in 1986 after
35 Falcon84 : Ty was the victim of bad timing. He took over program after a bleak five year stretch under Bob Davie FIVE YEAR STRETCH! Exactly my point! You guys ga
36 Arch89U : You people are quite possibly the most pessimistic people that have ever walked the face of the planet. Notre Dame will certainly return to glory at s
37 Falcon84 : Notre Dame will certainly return to glory at some point, because the health of the school depends on it. If the healh of the entire universlty hinges
38 PresRDC : "FIVE YEAR STRETCH! Exactly my point! You guys gave a stiff like Davie 5 full seasons, and Ty didn't even get to finish his third? Now, tell me again,
39 Slider : People were saying the same thing in 1964 and in 1986 after ND was in extended down periods. But right afterwards when ND got the right coaches in pla
40 Post contains images Falcon84 : Hey Irish Fan: yoohoo? Where are you? So Urban was smart and said no to South Bend, and yes to Tallahassee! ROTFL. You guys blew it BIG TIME, and I fo
41 Post contains images Usairwys757 : Falcon, way to ruin it. Urban is going to Gainesville, not Tallahassee.
42 Post contains images Falcon84 : I didn't ruin it, man: I called it.
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