Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
U.S. Soldier - Taking Refugee Status In Canada?  
User currently offlineSKYSERVICE_330 From Canada, joined Sep 2000, 1419 posts, RR: 5
Posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1575 times:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1102355940950_97765140?hub=Canada
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2004/12/06/deserter-refugee041206.html
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2004/12/06/768430-cp.html

I don't know how much press this has been getting anywhere else, but in Canada I have seen it on the news a few times. Really puts the Cdn. gov't in a bind. Should be worth watching to see how this gets resolved.

Regards.

38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16259 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1558 times:

We should accept them. We seem to accept so many refugees anyway from the 3rd world, many of them bogus. What harm is a few US draft dodgers?

Educated, English-speaking American draft dodgers would not be a burden at all -- they would require no language training, skills training, or sponsorship. They would become productive right away. Let em in!




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineWrenchBender From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1779 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1540 times:

THEY ARE NOT DRAFT DODGERS.

COWARDLY DESERTERS, Yes. Draft Dodgers, No.

Send them back directly to a military court. They all volunteered to join the military and they understood that there is a price to pay for the benefits. Running away as soon as they may have to go in harms way, is the chicken way out. If they didn't want to play they shouldn't have joined.

If Canada accepts these claims as valid, it will do irreparable damage to our relationship with the US and will just open the gates for more of this.

One of my instructors a long time ago in boot camp told me this. 'You're here to defend democracy not to take part in it' and its true, take away the discipline and all you have left is a mob.

WrenchBender



Silly Pilot, Tricks are for kids.......
User currently offlineJamesag96 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2095 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1516 times:

I agree with WrenchBender.


Why Kate, You're not wearing a bustle. How lewd.
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1513 times:

We seem to accept so many refugees anyway from the 3rd world, many of them bogus.

AMEN!

These guys have a far more legitimate fear of persecution than a big chunk of the refugees that Canada admits every year solely on the basis of their nationality. Gee, if you're from xyz country you must be persecuted so come on in and help yourself to some welfare money. Heck, Canada grants pretty much blanket refugee status to deserters from any country that has mandatory military service.





User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3376 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1481 times:

We should probably send him back to not make our US relations worse than it is but if we let this guy stay he won't be able to return to the US without getting in some serious military trouble.


Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlineNwajetset From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 139 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1476 times:

Ummm, there is no draft to dodge any longer.

User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3376 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1472 times:

Ummm, there is no draft to dodge any longer.

And you will never need one again, in the event of a military shortage make the war supporters go and fight.



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16259 posts, RR: 56
Reply 8, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1464 times:

If Canada accepts these claims as valid, it will do irreparable damage to our relationship with the US and will just open the gates for more of this.

No, it won't. Canada-US relations were not damaged by the thousands of draft dodgers that came here in the late 60's/early 70's.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineNwajetset From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 139 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1459 times:

military shortage ha-that's an oxymoron down here toots

User currently offlineDl021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 10, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1412 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

YYz The difference is that this clown joined the military voluntarily and was not drafted. Not that I supported the draft dodgers (I do respect a genuine conscientious objector, as long as they serve somewhere, look at the Quaker medics).

This guy deserted seeking to avoid hazardous service and should be returned to US military custody by our NATO ally and neighbor, and then he should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, and forced to serve his time in Iraq (if, that is, they don't shoot him for cowardice...not likely since they kind of swore off that after Slovik).



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 11, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1402 times:

Being against the war in Iraq myself, I can see where he's coming from, but on the other hand he did join the military of his own free will knowing the risks that would be taken. According to Radio-Canada (the French language arm of the CBC), he fleed the US because he felt that the war was "immoral and illegal". While I completely agree with him on that, joining the military isn't really something that you can just leave when you're asked to do something you don't like.

I'm still riding the fence on this one, but I lean towards sending him back to face a military tribunal.

LH423



« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16259 posts, RR: 56
Reply 12, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1396 times:

This guy deserted seeking to avoid hazardous service and should be returned to US military custody by our NATO ally and neighbor

Perhaps, but there is another side.

Maybe he joined up to fight for his country, not for Iraq's freedom. There is a difference.

Secondly, GWB himself was able to avoid Viet Nam because of his family connections. So why shouldnt middle class or poor kids have the same right to avoid service by coming to Canada?




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1393 times:

Educated, English-speaking American draft dodgers would not be a burden at all -- they would require no language training, skills training, or sponsorship. They would become productive right away.

Great.
Want some of our educated, english-speaking Vietnam war and Gulf war vets? The streets of San Francisco and Washington, DC and Boston and Houston, TX have more than their share of these sad men who America seems to have forgotten.

In any case, Jeremy Hinzman has a clear-cut case here.
He WILL face REAL persecution should he be returned to the US.
Would the US have returned a deserter from Saddam Hussein's army to Iraq to face a military tribunal? I think not.


User currently offlineB757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1404 times:

He needs to be returned to the U.S. and then sent to Leavenworth for the rest of his life. Desertion in time of war is actually a capital offense but as Dl021 pointed out, we haven't executed people for that since WWII.


"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1388 times:

Desertion in time of war is actually a capital offense but as Dl021 pointed out, we haven't executed people for that since WWII.

You just made a compelling case for granting Jeremy Hinzman political refugee status in Canada.

His lawyers just have to cite your call for capital punishment.

And then, of course, send you a thank you note.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16259 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1388 times:

Educated, English-speaking American draft dodgers would not be a burden at all -- they would require no language training, skills training, or sponsorship. They would become productive right away.

Great.
Want some of our educated, english-speaking Vietnam war and Gulf war vets? The streets of San Francisco and Washington, DC and Boston and Houston, TX have more than their share of these sad men who America seems to have forgotten.


The US draft dodgers in Canada are considered one of Cda's most successful immigrant groups.

He needs to be returned to the U.S. and then sent to Leavenworth for the rest of his life. Desertion in time of war is actually a capital offense

There is no war. Just an internal Iraqi conflict. Not an American war. Besides, GWB deserted Viet Nam, so what's the difference?





Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1385 times:

There is no war. Just an internal Iraqi conflict. Not an American war. Besides, GWB deserted Viet Nam, so what's the difference?

Nice argument, but I suspect that our political Mullahs and assorted GWB cheerleaders would find some macchiavelian way to paint Mr Hinzman as a commie pinko child molester worthy of the death penalty and GWB as a true war hero.

The US draft dodgers in Canada are considered one of Cda's most successful immigrant groups.

I have no doubt about that. How many "draft dodgers" did Canada accept? Are there any Canadian legislators from this demographic group today?


User currently offlineDl021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 18, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1342 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Even if yyz was correct in his characterization of President Bush's service as a fighter pilot being desertion (and he is not) that would not make Hinzmans actions legal or correct.

The plain fact of the matter is that he deserted in an effort to avoid hazardous service when he could have claimed conscientious objector status and faced the consequences of his convictions like a man instead of running away. If he does not return he should be stripped of his citizenship. If Canada grants him sanctuary there should be repercussions to the relationship.

He will not be sentenced with the death penalty, and any lawyer who tries to use that dodge will just be looking for publicity.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16259 posts, RR: 56
Reply 19, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1334 times:

The plain fact of the matter is that he deserted in an effort to avoid hazardous service when he could have claimed conscientious objector status and faced the consequences of his convictions like a man instead of running away.

I see no difference between desertion and getting Daddy to pull some strings to get you out of fighting in Viet Nam. It's all combat avoidance. GWB had an out -- why can't this kid? I hope we (Canada) accept him.

How many "draft dodgers" did Canada accept?

I keep hearing "tens of thousands". I have never heard an exact number.

Are there any Canadian legislators from this demographic group today?

Not federally. There is an American in the House of Commons with dual cit, but he's not a draft dodger.






Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineYVR2SAN From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 62 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1323 times:

"effort to avoid hazardous service when he could have claimed conscientious objector status"

He did apply and was denied.

However I do not think Canada should allow him to stay, the guy joined a voluntary military and now he does not want to be in it. Sorry but he should not have joined.

If you join the military on the premise of fighting for your country thats just crock since most of the recent actions the US military has done really had nothing to do with protecting the US from harm.

This guy wants the benefits of the military but when the time came to do the job he volunteered for he chickened out and fled, that he should be punished for.

If he does get to stay in Canada then he should be arrested if he ever attempts to cross the US border.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1319 times:

Coward

Deserter

Traitor

Period


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16259 posts, RR: 56
Reply 22, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1316 times:

Coward
Deserter
Traitor
Period


Are you talking about GWB or Jeremy Hinzman? They both avoided combat.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1312 times:

Yyz717: "Are you talking about GWB or Jeremy Hinzman? They both avoided combat"

I didn't think Dubya ran off to Canada to avoid his obligations as a man? I think he could have done things differently, but he isn't a deserter, coward or traitor.

Nuf said . . .


[Edited 2004-12-07 16:43:12]

User currently offline707cMf From France, joined Mar 2002, 4885 posts, RR: 29
Reply 24, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1312 times:

Maybe he just wanted mapple leaf syrup ?

Cheers,

707


25 Jaysit : I think he could have done things differently, but he isn't a deserter, coward or traitor. He had a rich Daddy to get him out of deep doo-doo when the
26 SlamClick : First off everyone there are two important definitions you need to understand: Persecution is harassment that causes suffering esp. because of princip
27 Jaysit : Prosecution is the application of legal action against a lawbreaker. I see. So when an Iraqi soldier showed up at the door of the INS, say circa 1991,
28 Yyz717 : I didn't think Dubya ran off to Canada to avoid his obligations as a man? I think he could have done things differently, but he isn't a deserter, cowa
29 SlamClick : Since I'd rather not tempt the moderators to ban me, let me just say that Jaysit uses words in a less-than-truthful way to discredit statements he can
30 WrenchBender : SlamClick, Canadian Military Law states- Desertion Offence 88. (1) Every person who deserts or attempts to desert is guilty of an offence and on convi
31 SlamClick : Thanks WrenchBender it sounds pretty much like our laws on the subject, minus, of course our allowance for the death penalty. As has been mentioned ab
32 Jaysit : Slamclick: You have a major chip on your soldier. Get rid of it. And don't assume anything about anyone. I graduated as an ROTC officer and I believe
33 Jaysit : There is not an issue in the world that cannot be muddied by dragging endless (and meritless) "yeah but" objections into it. As you cannot expect a la
34 SlamClick : Jaysit be advised that the law Wrenchbender posted was in response for my request for exactly that. I asked just out of curiousity; US and Canadian cu
35 Jaysit : Now, as to your demand that I answer your question: I should just say no because the question was, once again, a cheap shot, an attempt to muddy an is
36 ANCFlyer : Jaysit: "If you're so concerned about the loss of this American soldier to Canada, I have a suggestion: Sign up for Uncle Sam and put your own butt on
37 L-188 : Sorry but I have absolutely no sympathy for this guy, and can only hope that the Canadian goverment gets him the hell out of their country at the earl
38 Ual777contrail : Send the deserters to Leavenworth, Liberals to Canada. They all want to go, SO? Let em' go.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
US Deserter Denied Refugee Status In Canada posted Fri Mar 25 2005 00:01:41 by Yukimizake
VWs In Canada/US posted Wed Nov 1 2006 00:59:07 by ZBBYLW
3 Year Exile In Canada? posted Tue Oct 24 2006 23:09:39 by WrenchBender
Passport Needed To Travel In Canada From The US? posted Tue Aug 1 2006 02:56:26 by FutureSDPDcop
Only In Canada? posted Tue Jun 20 2006 06:12:58 by SKYSERVICE_330
Vonage In Canada posted Sat Jun 3 2006 17:21:43 by QB737
Mandatory Minimum Crime Sentences In Canada posted Thu May 4 2006 18:29:00 by Lutenist
Golden Corral 500 On In Canada Tommorow? posted Mon Mar 20 2006 01:06:36 by NeilYYZ
Sikh's Can Bring Kirpans To School In Canada posted Fri Mar 3 2006 13:50:13 by Ilikeyyc
Two Weeks In Canada: Travel Tips! posted Sat Feb 25 2006 20:45:35 by AOMlover