Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Your Gut Feeling On Iraq?  
User currently offlineThecoz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1061 times:

I'm not looking for facts or answers. Just write down your gut feeling on the direction of the country.


I feel cautiously optimistic. I'm very cautious about thier future, but very optimistic. I feel like the Iraqi people will make the right choices.

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2539 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1050 times:

i think the people will make good choices, but execution of these choices will be difficult. I think in about 5-10 years it will be a bit more stable, i still think 1000s are going to die, regardless of nationality  Sad


The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
User currently offlineDl021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 2, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1049 times:

I think that the people will eventually see that the path of democracy offers them hope and a real future, and that the radical fundamentalists offer them nothing but fear and hatred.

The more the terrorists keep killing innocents the more resistance will arise against the terrorists, especially when more clerics gather their courage and call down the terrorists and lead the people in resisting them.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlinePilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2539 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1043 times:

i am sure iraq will be fine one day, it has oil, but i am worried, that insurgents wil move over to another country and base there over time...and the cycle starts again...


The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1036 times:

I think that Iraq will spinter into 3 nations in about 4 years: the southern Shia, the northern kurds, while the Sunnis will continue to battle the beleagured US for decades while forging an anti-US force with the Shia.

Basically, Iraq is F---d.

The Kurds have the best chance at success, and given that Turkey wants to be a part of the EU, it will duct tape its mouth and give in to an evolving concept of Kurdistan.


User currently offlineShawn Patrick From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 2608 posts, RR: 16
Reply 5, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1026 times:

When all is said and done, I think we're going to step back and wonder what the whole purpose was, and regret the whole thing, regardless of the outcome.

Honestly, the world and the U.S. still hasn't recovered from the shock of 9/11. The fear is still there, the word "terrorist" still evokes a deep emotion and fear in most of the people, and everyone still wants to "go git 'em." That's why it still seems like our "moral duty" to "spread democracy around the world" or some lofty fluff like that.

But come on people! We are clearly in an irrational state of mind now. Most people don't even have a level of common courtesy. Most people couldn't care less about a murder seen on the 5PM news. Most people couldn't care less if that jackass driver in front of them dropped dead right now. Most people wouldn't be very fazed if one of their neighbors dropped dead. Yet we care about something as lofty as giving Iraqis freedom, people we have never met and know nothing about??? You can't even say "hi" to someone passing you on the street but you want to give some ragheads their freedom, and pay for it with thousands of American lives - that's right, people of your own kind. Obviously, that is not rational at all.

But this lofty, highly moral platform is going to come crashing down one day. When the fear of terrorism and muslims and middle easterners dies down (meaning, when the world re-learns how to evaluate threats rationally), we're going to see the Iraq war as very costly and just plain stupid, regardless of the outcome there. The moral face is a hard one to keep up - inevitably, we'll slip back into our self-centered human tendencies...

Humans are inherently self-centered, and Americans are certainly not exempt from that fallacy. So, when the world regains its senses, we're going to say, "who the hell cares if some small desert country is free and democratic? My (insert family member) is dead so some ragheads can be free?" "Who the hell cares if Iraqis are free? Gas prices went up all during the war and I couldn't buy that gas guzzling Land Rover, I couldn't afford it. Stupid ragheads."

Sounds at lot like Vietnam. "Who the fuck really cares if some slanty-eyed country is communist? I don't want my children dying for their democracy."

Mark my words.

[Edited 2004-12-07 05:44:55]

User currently offlineMarco From United Arab Emirates, joined Jul 2000, 4169 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1024 times:

Jaysit let's not forget the Assyrians who also have a small chunk of Northern Iraq.


Proud to be an Assyrian!
User currently offline57AZ From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2550 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1014 times:

Word from the Discovery/Times Page One is that the information that is being given to the White House is very pessimistic. Doesn't sound good at the moment. Arizona is still digesting the latest reports from the Army-evidently Tilman was killed by friendly fire.


"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
User currently offlineVafi88 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1012 times:

My gut feeling?

It's complete and total bullsh!t - we should've never gone in, then maybe a whole lot more people would have been alive - on BOTH SIDES.



I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
User currently offlineB757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1011 times:

Despite what the Lame Stream Media, such as the New York Slimes, want us to believe, the situation in Iraq will continue to improve. The terrorists know that their time is limited and because of that they're going to try and cause as much death and destruction as possible while they still have time. The Iraqi people know that they have a chance for a better future and most will not let a bunch of thugs and foreign terrorists ruin it.


"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
User currently offlineShawn Patrick From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 2608 posts, RR: 16
Reply 10, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 998 times:

Right, B757300, and what makes you care about Iraqis so much?

User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39898 posts, RR: 74
Reply 11, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 994 times:

I have always been against the war in Iraq and it's a problem Bush has to deal with.
Jenna Bush and her sister should be dragged off to Iraq also.
All who voted for Bush should have there kids sent off to Iraq to fight in that war.

That's my gut feeling.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offline57AZ From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2550 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 993 times:

Much as I hate to say it, Iraq is fast becoming my generation's Vietnam. I had a very interesting discussion with a friend of mine who spent his career in the Air Force, did time as a SAC missile commander and then worked for the Army as a civilian contractor. His general observation was that the quality of our military leadership has steadily declined at the top and we both were afraid that while Iraq was and is a valid fight, our leadership would make the same mistakes they did in Vietnam. There we went in with a broad, poorly defined goal and no exit plan. Not only did our leadership choose to do the same in Iraq but they chose to do so at a time when it would potentially overextend our military resources. Worse, it has allowed Al-Quaeda to reorganize since we have not been able to focus our attention 100% on them, as we should have. Iraq was nicely contained by the Saudis and its other nations and should have been left in that situation until we had the upper hand with the Al-Quaeda problem. Our intelligence was never geared towards a major conflict in the Middle East, the terrorists knew that and we are paying for that now. I do belive that things will eventually improve for the Iraqi citizens. The only question is how long it will take and what our situation will be in the end of the long haul.


"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 992 times:

Despite what the Lame Stream Media, such as the New York Slimes, want us to believe, the situation in Iraq will continue to improve.

Why thank you, Dr. Brothers.

Will J.Lo and Ben Affleck reunite in 2005 as well?
Will the Olson twins be recaptured by aliens and sent off to the planet Zog?


User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 992 times:

I also remain cautiously optimistic.

That said, it will all come down to the people. Do they want to take the chance that an extremist could once again take control and face torture and genocide again, or do they want to take a chance at stability and have a shot at a real future?

Remember that before Saddam started raping the country's natural resources, Iraq was a first world country...they were doing well and the people were educated. Then, Saddam came in and everything went downhill in the course of 8 years. He had to go...anyone who gasses his own people is justification alone for regime change and an invasion to accomplish that purpose. It was because of the (always) weak UN that there wasn't enough courage to do it in 1991. Bush Sr. wanted to do it, but knew other allies weren't brave enough to take on the challenge, so he had no choice to back down. Imagine if we had taken the same liberal, anti-war attitude in 1941 and allowed the Nazis to remain in power?

It will take a while...5-10-15 years, if not longer. Another mid-east dictatorship needs to fall very quickly...namely Iran...in order for people to get the message that extremism can't and won't be tolerated.



User currently offlineYukimizake From Japan, joined Mar 2004, 529 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 990 times:

Lets say they have their elections and they choose an Iraqi government, this government will always be viewed as a puppet of the US and insurgency will continue. In the future, the moment an Iraqi administration takes an anti-US stance and threatens the stability of the flow of oil they will be demonized as a rogue nation and the US move in again.

Actually, there's no reason why Iraq should continue to exist. It was created by the British, French and Americans after WWI, colonial powers simply drawing lines on a map then announcing this new country Iraq. It would make more sense, as Jaysit suggests, for 3 countries to emerge, one for the Kurds, the Shi'a Muslims and the Sunni Muslims. Also, after the US abandoned the Shi'a Muslims, leaving them to the mercy of Saddam after the first gulf war, their hated of the US will remain for years to come.



'Opfer müssen gebracht werden (Sacrifices must be made)' - Otto Lilienthal
User currently offlineDragon-wings From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3986 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 987 times:

My gut feeling on Iraq right now is that we will be there for a very very long time.


Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 987 times:

Remember that before Saddam started raping the country's natural resources, Iraq was a first world country...they were doing well and the people were educated.

Iraq was NEVER a First World country.

If anything, the Baathists under Saddam liberated Iraqi women of Islamic modes of dress, behavior, etc. The liberation of women was up on the Baathist agenda because they were nominally secular rulers.


User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 974 times:

It was never a superpower, no....but it was in MUCH better shape economically and socially than it was at the time Saddam was justifiably forced out of power.

Quality of life in Iraq took a huge hit during 8 years of war and from Saddam's pillaging of the country. It's estimated he STOLE $21 BILLION from the country during that time.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 904 times:

Well, the CIA is telling Bush what it thinks, so next time you hear Bush or Cheney or Condi telling you how good Iraq is, you now they're lying, becuase the intel their receiving paints a different picture:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/12/07/iraq.cia/index.html

Bush has put in motion a disaster, and his administration can't find a way out.

I think that the people will eventually see that the path of democracy offers them hope and a real future

I think you've been drinking way too much GOP-flavord Kool-Aid. They don't WANT democracy as we have it. They want an Islamic government, and that's what will end up there. Stop this pie-in-the-sky fantasy that Bush is feeding you.

Despite what the Lame Stream Media, such as the New York Slimes

Typical B757300. He can't discuss anything like an adult, and everyone he doesn't agree with, he slurs. Maybe you'll grow up someday, but I doubt it.

... the situation in Iraq will continue to improve.

CONTINUE? It isn't improving at all, and you believe all the shit Bush feeds you, don't you? The CIA is telling Bush the exact opposite, so why don't you start calling them names, too?

All you conservatives who believe the tripe you hear from Bush, if you're so damn optimistic, you go there and help them, and then tell me how optimistic you are then? You're being fed a line of bull, and like good little conservatives, you believe what your master tells you, without question.

This is a nightmare in the process, and we've virtually destroyed that nation, and you want us to be optimistic and proud of what's been achieved? Not in this lifetime.

But keep your blinders on, if it makes you feel better about this damn war. Over a thousand of your countrymen have lost their lives, and lost them for absolutely nothing.


User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5644 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 896 times:

My gut feeling is that there will be some type of partition. It is less and less likely that Iraq can stay together as a cohesive nation, indeed it's only been a single nation for a relatively short time. The upcoming election will probably make this clear, with most people in the Sunni areas boycotting the vote.
I see two possible alternatives. The first, which has been mentioned earlier in this thread, has the Sunni, Shiite and Kurdish regions as separate countries. While that's possible, I believe it's more likely that the Shiite and Kurdish regions will find enough common ground to stay together as the (reduced) Republic of Iraq. The restive Sunni region will be odd man out, and given its higher degree of Islamic militancy and lack of oil resources it probably will be a very nasty place indeed, dirt-poor and full of angry Islamofascists. Moreover, this partition will require massive relocations, as the populations are not wholly within their own regions, with a great deal of human misery as a result. American troops will stay for another year or so and then leave.
I guess you could say this is a "half-full/half-empty" result. It won't be a total disaster, as the Kurdish and Shiite regions (or the union of those two regions) may end up reasonably prosperous and stable, though Iranian meddling in the Shiite zone is a concern. But as mentioned, the Sunni region is likely to be an impoverished hotbed of militancy and terrorism.



"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4491 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 890 times:

I think you've been drinking way too much GOP-flavord Kool-Aid. They don't WANT democracy as we have it. They want an Islamic government, and that's what will end up there. Stop this pie-in-the-sky fantasy that Bush is feeding you.

Hell, I'm Republican and I know Alpha has a good point with this. They don't want democracy and they never will. Individual freedom, democracy, and all that bruhaha is NOT the Islam way. Societal freedom is, and that's what should ultimately be in place in Iraq. We'll continue getting our asses kicked until this happens. That's my honest opinion.

We need to get out of our narrow-minded utopian idea that democracy is perfect and should be the only accepted form of government. Since WHEN in history has that idea ever worked? Try never.



I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlineBahadir From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1794 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 884 times:

When I told people about my concerns before the war I was called Anti-American. But, unfortunately , my predictions have seen the daylight; the idea of prospering Iraqis hasn't  Sad) A year ago, when I was at work people were watching the TV at work (it's day time here in US but it was night time in Iraq) as if they were wathing the Monday Night Football..

My gut feeling is that this is going to be worse than Vietnam; not just from US' perspective, but from the stability of entire region.

To make a aviation reference to it, we are spending $6Bil/day in Iraq; it's the entire loss of the airlines in US in a Quarter.. Something to think about..

Let us not forget about the people who died in the conflict as well..

Just thinking about it makes me sad..  Sad



Earthbound misfit I
User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3381 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 875 times:

All who voted for Bush should have there kids sent off to Iraq to fight in that war.

Superfly I have to agree with that but leave the Bush girls here because they are good to look at Big grin



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlineVafi88 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 17
Reply 24, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 867 times:

Could the spread of democracy be the next spread of Christianity???

I mean, look at what we colonized with christianity - now it seems Democracy this, that and the next - sure it's a pretty good way to run things, but it's not in any way perfect, and it surely isn't one size-fits-all... meaning it won't work for every nation...



I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
25 Yyz717 : GWB did the Iraqis a favour by deposing Saddam. Now bring the US boys home and tell Iraq: "You are a grown up country, prove to the world you can demo
26 Jaysit : Iraq is a distant slab of sand. Uh, huh. With the world's largest reserves of oil after Saudi Arabia. That's some really expensive sand. So, if you th
27 Falcon84 : GWB did the Iraqis a favour by deposing Saddam. Now bring the US boys home and tell Iraq: "You are a grown up country, prove to the world you can demo
28 GKirk : It was good getting rid of Saddam Hussein but since that day and when we saw the pictures of the statue of Saddam in Baghdad being pulled down, it's a
29 Scbriml : Iraq is a total mess. I'm starting a book on how long it will take for one/most/all of the "freely elected" Iraqi Government to be assassinated. The "
30 StarAC17 : Iraq is a distant slab of sand. Not one American life is worth it. Let Iraq sink or swim on its own. Iraq will almost certainly sink. But if the US do
31 KYIPpilot : My honest feeling is that this war was a total mistake, and I never supported it from day one. Thousands of people on both sides do not deserve the ho
32 Jaysit : You cannot force democracy on a nation, the people have to want it bad enough to get it themselves. Democracy isn't just a code word pulled out of a p
33 Aloges : My gut feeling is that terrorists are going to blow the country to pieces, the int'l community is going to feed its people and in the end, some "democ
34 Superfly : StarAC17: I agree, the Bush twins are hot. Perhaps if they get blown to pieces then support for the war would dwindle and there Papa's administration
35 Xpat : Isn't it strange that prior to the US invasion of Iraq, probably a very minor part of the population actually knew where it was nor gave a damn about
36 Pilotaydin : i find it strange that the usa can support saddam against Iran, and then dismantle him 2 decades later when they see he didn't stay loyal to the usa..
37 JGPH1A : Re: It was good getting rid of Saddam Hussein but since that day and when we saw the pictures of the statue of Saddam in Baghdad being pulled down, it
38 Airplay : Gut feeling? The invasion in Iraq is a disaster. Bush is a liar. The Bush family and associates are just low-life profiteers who will use their power
39 Post contains images Solnabo : My gut feeling on Iraq: It´s gonna be a Vietnam 2, it gonna go on for years and years and years........ Sad, very sad! All those young girls n boys i
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Koran Prophecy On Iraq/9.11? posted Sun Nov 12 2006 19:58:38 by PPVRA
Woodward: Kissinger Advising Bush On Iraq posted Fri Sep 29 2006 18:34:21 by Falcon84
Would You Transport Your New Car On This? posted Fri Sep 15 2006 21:24:37 by Alberchico
Screen Of Your Actual Wallpaper On Monitor? posted Sun Aug 13 2006 23:13:04 by Yirina77
US Military Hearing On Iraq Rape Case Begins posted Sun Aug 6 2006 19:16:46 by Rammstein
Your Annoying Moments On London Transport posted Mon Jul 10 2006 22:02:47 by Express1
Pure Pacifists On Iraq: Kind Of Clueless posted Sat Mar 18 2006 12:20:44 by AerospaceFan
Blair Says God Will Judge Him On Iraq posted Sat Mar 4 2006 14:21:01 by Scotty
War On Iraq - An A.net Opinion Poll posted Wed Dec 21 2005 02:34:41 by Jean Leloup
Democrats: Dishonest On Iraq. posted Wed Nov 16 2005 03:16:06 by SFOMEX