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The Rising Wave Of "Islamophobia" In Europe  
User currently offlineCommander_Rabb From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 771 posts, RR: 7
Posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2067 times:

"Since the end of World War II, Western Europe has been widely viewed as a bastion of internationalism, moderation and social progressiveness — a haven of affluent, eco-conscious citizens in stark contrast to the perceived unilateralism and parochialism of the United States."

Guess there is a new lightning rod of hate. Interesting observations and thoughts in the following article.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=289575&page=1

Hate certainly has no borders these days.


60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16335 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2050 times:

But across Western Europe, immigrant and civil rights experts say a xenophobic, anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim wave appears to be gripping a region once famed for its tolerance.

Oh please. Europe was kind enough to let these people in. If Europe was truly "xenophobic, anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim", there would have been no immigration at all.

There is fault on all sides. Europe is guilty of letting in too many Muslims at once without a plan to integrate them. Muslims are guilty of not doing enough to integrate and secularize.

Perhaps the answer is to stop Muslim immigration into the EU to give the current Muslim minorities a chance to integrate.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineIakobos From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 3316 posts, RR: 34
Reply 2, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2023 times:

Islamophobic wave ???
more like two ripples in the bathtub, but if it helps the carrier make sell its advert time, why not.

Interesting development in France (well over 5 million Muslims and some 1,685 mosques):
the government has taken some radical measures, in conjunction with "moderate" Muslim organizations, in order to put some order in the mess (my words) and eradicate the unchecked preaching of radical Islam.
(Salafists of Wahhabi obedience, reported to be active in 40 mosques)

- it will create a Foundation for Islam in France, an organ comprising both local administrators and members of (French) Muslim organizations
- the Foundation will oversee the formation of future Imams AND control and channelize the foreign funds (i.e. from Morocco, Algeria, Saudia, Gulf States)
- Imams (presently a little over 1,200, of which 75% are foreigners and 33% do not speak French) will have to follow a cursus at a French university
- the theologic formation will be done in France by one of the 2 or 3 approved Muslim organizations.

...séparer le bon grain de l'ivraie...
The idea, and this is an innovation, is to actively control their resources and make sure that no hothead ever gets close enough to a microphone.

An initiative to follow ?





User currently offlineSchoenorama From Spain, joined Apr 2001, 2440 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2017 times:

Ironic how of all people, it's 'our very own' Commander who posts this article.

The title of this thread is misleading. Even the article linked doesn't reach the conclusion the title suggests. Tell me Commander, couldn't you at least have added a question mark to the end of the title?



Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
User currently offlineCommander_Rabb From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 771 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1990 times:

Absolutely top-hole, sir, with a ying and yang and yippiedeedoo and a question mark too!

Happy (?)


User currently offlineSchoenorama From Spain, joined Apr 2001, 2440 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1973 times:

Not really. The title hasn't changed. Why don't you delete it and start all over again?

The board rules are pretty clear about false or malicious statements. The title of this thread clearly falls into the first category and possibly even the second!



Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
User currently offlineCommander_Rabb From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 771 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1961 times:

Then suggest deletion. If you dive into the article you will see that there must be some sort of increase of "Islamophobia" to have a report posted by abcnews.com. I realize that the topic is a touchy one for those who feel that Europe is clean from this type of thing but honestly, the article has some merit. And I stand by the title of this thread based on the content of the article.

Now, care to offer something tangible on the article? Out is it too stinging a subject that would rather be swept under the rug? Like actions of decades past?


User currently offlineCommander_Rabb From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 771 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1956 times:

"There is definitely a rise in Islamophobia across Europe," said Liz Fekete, deputy director of the London-based Institute of Race Relations. "Muslims collectively are being blamed for the attacks on the World Trade Center, and there is a general punitive climate toward Muslims. This has manifested itself in a variety of ways. On the ground, there has been a rise in racial violence on Muslim targets across Europe. And the biggest problem is that the scale of the problem has not been acknowledged."

I will just let this quote from the report back up the appropriate title of my thread.

And of course the last sentence is a very alarming one which I agree with.


User currently offlineMr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1952 times:

Who Cares???????????

Let's play spin the wheel ..... shall we?

The wheel has each and everyone of the countries that support terrorism on it.

This wheel just happens to be full of countries in the Middle East! ... and other parts of the planet. Imagine that!

Other countries on the planet Earth that have had enough of those who want to harm North America, Europe, etc, ....."THE FREE WORLD" get to spin the wheel.

What ever country the wheel lands on .... GETS BOMBED!!!!!

It doesn't matter whether or not they were responsible for an act of terror or not .... they still GET BOMBED!!!!

Untill they're all gone .............

Oops, what were you saying????


Chris  Smile



"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
User currently offlineIakobos From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 3316 posts, RR: 34
Reply 9, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1944 times:

It is always risky to believe everything you read, especially if it makes you feel happy and tempts you to spread it around under a hot rod title.

In this particular case, the article is titled "is Islam endangering Europeanness ?"
In a few lines, the article goes from London to Paris to the Netherlands to Belgium and back, covering 4 years of "events", without actually reporting anything of substance, but unfortunately coming up with blatant mistakes, if not straight lies.
How would you rate an article like that CRabb ?

Is journalism still teached in the US of A nowadays or is the access to the profession totally free ?





User currently offlineHamfist From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 614 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1932 times:

Maybe there is, maybe there isn't.

Whatever is the case, there are not many within Islam who are giving the rest of us much of a reason to embrace them! I've spent a few months in the region and I know that the radical-minded terrorists are the minority, however, I also realize that the vast majority of the good people are too apathetic to do anything about those giving their religion and culture a bad name.


User currently offlineSchoenorama From Spain, joined Apr 2001, 2440 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1929 times:

""There is definitely a rise in Islamophobia across Europe," said Liz Fekete"

That's the opinion of one of the persons interviewed, Commander. Even ABC News hasn't simply copied that statement into their title. They have been much more cautious, as you should have been.

Now, care to offer something tangible on the article?"

Fellow user Iakobos described it perfectly; ripples in a bathtub, that's all it is.

"And of course the last sentence is a very alarming one which I agree with."

What is really alarming is that someone who works for the Pentagon believes this bullshit!

Wasn't there any islamophobia in the U.S. after 9/11? Of course there was! Now this doesn't mean that it is a good thing, but these things always happen when someone from a minority commits a political murder or terrorist act. But we shouldn't give it too much attention. 14 Muslim schools and buildings attacked in Holland might look like a real big thing, but do you know how many people it takes to actually perform such an attack? Just one. With just one lunatic, crazy teenager with raging hormones or a "White Power" right-winger one can perform an attack on either a Muslim school, a Jewish Cementary or a Gay bar!

Do incidents against Muslims take place in Europe? Of course! Is there a rise? Probably. Is there a "Rising Wave" as your personal title suggests? Certainly not!



Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
User currently offlineMr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1928 times:

Guess who don't have a "Phobia" .........

A Lot of us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Like Me.


Read between the lines ............. and you will find ..................


The Giant Has Been Woken UP!!!


Chris  Smile



"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
User currently offlineSchoenorama From Spain, joined Apr 2001, 2440 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1926 times:

Mr Spaceman:

"The wheel has each and everyone of the countries that support terrorism on it."

You might be into a 'little' supprise regarding one particular country's name on that wheel of yours!



Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
User currently offlinePilotaydin From Turkey, joined Sep 2004, 2539 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1924 times:

what do u want us to do? the entire us military is in Iraq and can't stop them...what the heck am i supposed to do as an unarmed muslim? come on....... dont call us apathetic, if an innocent muslim didn't cause the problem, you can't go expecting them to HAVe to do something about it, and if they choose not to, bc i dont know what i can do, then that gives u no right to just write us off as apathetic....

embrace us as PEOPLE, dont presort us by religion and wait for us to do something that gains ur approval concerning my religion, to approve me for embrace... when i lived in the us, black, white, cubans, i was everyone's friend, i didnt expect different performance from different people based on their religions....nor origin.... so why should i stand to have that done against me??




The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
User currently offlineCommander_Rabb From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 771 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1923 times:

There is "probably" a rise? "Probably"?

Perhaps you may not know what a rising wave is? But there is most certainly a rise in "Islamophobia". Wave, ripple, rising, sprouting, which ever word suits you.

Spliting hairs over semantics won't wash away the hatred or the numerous examples stated in the report will it?

Thanks for confirming a lot of what the report says. Especially the last sentence.

Just turn your heads away. God help us.


User currently offlineMr Spaceman From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 2787 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1914 times:

Hello Schoenorama,

I agree. My eyes are wide  Wow! open ................ but, that country is a free country, and they have the power to kill those who are really "F" UP!!!

My friend. I Hate ...with all my heart!!! How this planets is covered by killers of freedom. I really do hope that one day ..... "THEY DROP THE BOMB!!!" Again, and again, and again.

Do you believe that the giant will ever stop hunting for peace???

Those who want to kill others, while being watched by the wrath of power at it's most ....... will all die!! You wait and see ...... Freedom will kill evil!


Chris  Smile



"Just a minute while I re-invent myself"
User currently offlineIakobos From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 3316 posts, RR: 34
Reply 17, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1903 times:

If God there is, I guess he must be seriously wondering what to do with some in his flock. Help him.

The "wave" is your invention CRabb, a special effect to make it more savoury.

The so-called article is an amalgam made of truncated opinions taken out of context, events that have no correlation not even chronologically, and a lie or two (at best unverified tips) and only one brief report of an actual and verified event.

I cannot believe this has been written by a journalist sane in his mind.
Who knows, perhaps there are readers for this kind of trash.

There is another and in this case interesting thread on the subject, where decent human beings share their differing opinions in a convivial way.







User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16335 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1886 times:

embrace us as PEOPLE, dont presort us by religion and wait for us to do something that gains ur approval concerning my religion, to approve me for embrace...

The West is already embracing Muslims, courtesy of massive Muslim immigration. However, I don't see any non-Muslim immigration into Muslim nations. Hence, it appears it's Muslims who need to do some embracing.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineBahadir From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1824 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1880 times:

Aydin,
it's already too late.. Look at how scared EU is to let Turkey in.
At least US is consistent in terms of the policies they follow, wrong or right. Europe has been the biggest supporter of radical Islam and PKK.

Don't get me started on the Cyrus joke, where the Greek Cypriots were the uncooperative ones in the latest poll, but they got into EU anyway.

Let's see what kind of criteria Romania and Bulgaria will have to satisfy compared to Turkey.




Earthbound misfit I
User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5741 posts, RR: 19
Reply 20, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1868 times:

If you dive into the article you will see that there must be some sort of increase of "Islamophobia" to have a report posted by abcnews.com.

Since when does Commander_Rabb believe anything written by the liberal media??? I thought The Truth is to be found only on gop.com, the White House press releases... and the Bible of course.

Amusing, that concerns over hatred against Muslim are coming from a die-hard supporter of Bush "The Crusader".


User currently offlineCommander_Rabb From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 771 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1825 times:

Amusing, that concerns over hatred against Muslim are coming from a die-hard supporter of Bush "The Crusader".

That's pretty arrogant of you. Guess you don't know me afterall. None of you do. You just assume.

And we all know about the letters in the word assume.



Got pins?



User currently offlineLHSebi From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 1049 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1822 times:

it's already too late.. Look at how scared EU is to let Turkey in.
At least US is consistent in terms of the policies they follow, wrong or right.


What the hell?! You think that the EU is "afraid" to let Turkey in because the majority of its population is muslim? Gimme a break...Perhaps if the economic situations were a bit similar to the other nations in the EU, then they wouldn't be so scared!  Insane

So you are basically saying, it's better for the US to keep bombing nations that aren't "free" and that are a "direct threat" to the US, as opposed to admitting that a mistake has been made and they should stop to clean up the mess? Wonderful.....

Sebastian



I guess that's what happens in the end, you start thinking about the beginning.
User currently offlineQR332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1820 times:

The West is already embracing Muslims, courtesy of massive Muslim immigration. However, I don't see any non-Muslim immigration into Muslim nations. Hence, it appears it's Muslims who need to do some embracing.

Open your eyes wider then. The UAE has a very small percentage of Emiratis, most are Expats, same in Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi, Oman and Kuwait. There are hundreds of westerners here in the Middle East, all working to get money, and living a lifestyle that they are happy with. Gulf states do not even embrace their fellow Arabs to become citizens, why would they invite non-Arabs and non-Muslims?


User currently offlineTs-ior From Tunisia, joined Oct 2001, 3489 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (9 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1812 times:


I wish have been living in Europe. Believe me, i could live my faith better than in many other Arabic, said to be Muslim countries !!!



25 OYRJA : it's already too late.. Look at how scared EU is to let Turkey in. Hey there Yank. Do you even know what it's all about? It has nothing to do with rel
26 Schoenorama : Commander_Rabb: "Perhaps you may not know what a rising wave is? But there is most certainly a rise in "Islamophobia". Wave, ripple, rising, sprouting
27 Galaxy5 : I would have thought it to be the other way around, all the times i go to Europe it seems the Muslim influence is spreading by leaps and bounds, i wou
28 Iakobos : Bahadir, If your skewed and primitive vision of politics had to be applied to physics, I am quite sure with half a wing you would never have left the
29 Post contains images Scbriml : Commander Rabid, Do you believe everything you read in the press? We are so intolerant of minorities here in the UK We let an Islamic extremist (Abu H
30 Post contains images QR332 : Ts-ior, I wish have been living in Europe. Believe me, i could live my faith better than in many other Arabic, said to be Muslim countries !!! Im inte
31 Vneplus5 : Guys, why do take Rabb's bait every single time? Haven't you learned yet? He just says these things so the Europeans, and to a lesser extent our Arabi
32 Yyz717 : There are hundreds of westerners here in the Middle East, all working to get money, and living a lifestyle that they are happy with. Gulf states do no
33 Yazoo : I got a question for everyone here! How to deal with people who come from, Supposedly "Muslim" Countries, but who are not really religious (Young Stud
34 Post contains images Mr Spaceman : >> Schoenorama ........... So you hate, with all your heart? And you hope 'they' will kill them? Doesn't that put you in the same position as 'them' w
35 Bahadir : LHSebi, no I am not claiming that Turkey is being singled out because it's a Muslim country. There are other factors of course, but being Muslim and h
36 LH526 : in my eyes society and politicians nearly all over euoper fear the same inevitable facts: They all want to close their countries for immigrants .. the
37 PROSA : I grew up in an extremely ethnic environment in Istanbul; went to school with Armenians, Greeks and Jews. Armenians living in Turkey? I'm rather surpr
38 Pilotaydin : "Armenians living in Turkey? I'm rather surprised, isn't there tremendous animosity between the groups?" those were the older days, Turks and Armenian
39 QR332 : Then why won't the UAE allow non-Muslim Arabs to take citizenship? This is racism. No it isnt. They dont allow anyone to take citizenship, period. Not
40 Yyz717 : Then why won't the UAE allow non-Muslim Arabs to take citizenship? This is racism. No it isnt. They dont allow anyone to take citizenship, period. Not
41 Commander_Rabb : Clearly what we have here is "shoot the messenger." When the subject is unconfortable you squirm and call names. Pleasant. Very pleasant. And as I sai
42 LHSebi : you squirm and call names Where is anyone squirming?...The name calling began after you made your opinion on the article, and other users pretty clear
43 QR332 : Yyz, Wow, that's a convenient way for the UAE to remain 100% Muslim. It's a racist policy and you should denounce it. Why is it racist? Its got nothin
44 Commander_Rabb : LH, if you have anything to add to the discussion keep it on topic. You always seem to pop up with nothing substantive.
45 Post contains images LHSebi : Rabb...I think my post above was very much so on topic. It was a direct response to what you wrote. You thought that (us Europeans mainly) were trying
46 Commander_Rabb : I am always happy. Though there seems to be quite a few here that sure are bitter about a few things when their own 'vaulted" Europe comes under discu
47 Schoenorama : Mr Spaceman: "No it doesn't. I'm not the Jealous one!" So you seriously believe terrorists attack out of jealousy? "My world was attacked on 911, and
48 OYRJA : Though there seems to be quite a few here that sure are bitter about a few things when their own 'vaulted" Europe comes under discussion by a reporter
49 Avek00 : It was easy for Europe to pretend that it was more cosmopolitan on diversity than the US when visible minorities were few and far between. Now that Eu
50 Yyz717 : Wow, that's a convenient way for the UAE to remain 100% Muslim. It's a racist policy and you should denounce it. Why is it racist? Its got nothing to
51 Sayem55 : I do not know if there is a rise in "Islamophobia In Europe", but certainly this forum is islamophobic and Anti-Muslim. Every time there is a thread a
52 L410Turbolet : Sayem, I don't think people on this forum have to disgrace Islam. It's those extremists like Bin Laden, Atta, Madrid bombings perpetrators, Somali ima
53 Iakobos : Pilotaydin: If you think the military runs things in Turkey to where people have no rights, you are ever so wrong. President Erdogan is taking power a
54 Sayem55 : "Sure Kurds can go to school, but can they also been teached (even partially) in their language and by a Kurd teacher ?" I do not know the exact refer
55 L410Turbolet : Sayem, it was in no way my intent to offend you (or anyone else). I'm deeply convinced that what one does or doesn't believe in is everybody's private
56 Commander_Rabb : The article used by our commendable centrist model and well balanced fellow CRabb is a bad piece of pseudo-journalism. Bad because it is supposed to h
57 Iakobos : Worry for what ? Even you, supposing you would condescent to open both eyes, could realize that after an event like 9/11 (which for your information w
58 Post contains images Ts-ior : QR332, You can't say other thing when some Arab-"Muslim" countries close mosques in-between prayers, prosecute vailed girls and try as much as possibl
59 Sayem55 : "Sayeem, why should there be only one language in any particular country ? A country is a political construction which may include different cultural
60 Iakobos : Sayem, what you say would be consistent with a nationalistic approach, where the voice of the authority dictates. In most of Europe this is something
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