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Dioxin Poisoning, Terrible Effects  
User currently offlineGalaxy5 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2034 posts, RR: 24
Posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2014 times:

Man, i never realized how bad dioxin poisoning affects the body (of course death is a bad side effect) but i didn't realized how it dramatically affected the skin and outside appearance.

http://apnews.myway.com/image/20041211/AUSTRIA_UKRAINE_YUSHCHENKO.sff_FRA103_20041211105303.html?date=20041211&docid=D86TOJHO0



more info on Dioxin. http://www.ejnet.org/dioxin/


"damn, I didnt know prince could Ball like that" - Charlie Murphy
31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 29
Reply 1, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1992 times:

Is that skin condition permanent, or will it go away eventually? A shame to see someone poisoned like that.  Sad


Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineBtblue From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 578 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1974 times:

It will go away after time according to his Austrian doctor who is quoted on the BBC news website saying so.

Looks really bad - he wasn't bad looking before hand. Imagine having to cope with it? Yikes. Poor fella - wish him well.



146/2/3 737/2/3/4/5/7/8/9 A320 1/2/18/19/21 DC9/40/50 DC10/30 A300/6 A330/2/3 A340/3/6 A380 757/2/3 747/4 767/3/4 787 77
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 977 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1957 times:

It will go away after time according to his Austrian doctor who is quoted on the BBC news website saying so.

A long time... it will be several years before he looks 100% normal, if he ever fully recovers. That is nasty stuff....


User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1906 times:

That is really sad right there... No man should have to cope with that. What did he do that made him deserve this?

User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8453 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1901 times:
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He had opponents in politics, which as we all know is a nasty business to be in.


After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16281 posts, RR: 56
Reply 6, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1876 times:

Things like this just don't happen in civilized countries.


Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 977 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1862 times:

Things like this just don't happen in civilized countries.

No...they only throw pies and eggs in eachothers faces....

http://www.turkishdailynews.com/old_editions/08_18_00/for2.htm#f28


User currently offlineRussophile From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1843 times:

Can anyone show me the evidence which proves without a doubt that Yushchenko was deliberately poisoned, and furthermore that he was deliberately poisoned by political opponents?

I am not so naive to think that political motivations may not be behind this, but at the same time, dioxins are especially prevalent in foods such as fish (one of the most common sources of dioxin poisoning).

Just because Yushchenko, and his Vienna-based doctor (who happens to be a Ukie supporter of Yushchenko), scream attempted assassination does not make this the truth.

Additionally, as I mentioned in the other thread, it is also quite possible that what Yushchenko had was some type of viral infection. Except his doctors did not test for any viruses -- claiming that he arrived in Vienna too late for this -- a claim debunked by a US medical professor.

In this instance, it was necessary to have an independent examination. For all we know, he could have had a virus and also eaten some bad food. But this we won't know now, so everything is mere speculation.

[Edited 2004-12-12 22:39:20]

User currently offlineIakobos From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 3313 posts, RR: 34
Reply 9, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1805 times:

Russophile,

Many thanks for reminding us of an often eclipsed fact of life:
beware of the fish !

Asterix and Obelix do remind us occasionally, still we should pay much more attention.

Following Russo's pertinent notice, the EU commission has already reacted and is preparing a bill for debate in parliament. It is hoped that by Q2 2005, every fish sold in the EU will have to bear the label "fish can kill you" on the left side and "consuming fish can cause cancer or poison you in a way your mother would not recognize you" on the right.

To emphasize the high level of danger, the notices will be printed in superimposition on an hologram representing a skull and bones.

Fish and fish products from the Black and Caspian Seas, and all rivers debiting into these will be prohibited for import into the EU.

Similar measures concerning sea mammals, shells and lobsters are awaiting the conclusion of separate studies.




User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5644 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1790 times:

of course death is a bad side effect

Well, uh, yeah  Smokin cool



"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16281 posts, RR: 56
Reply 11, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1781 times:

For all we know, he could have had a virus and also eaten some bad food. But this we won't know now, so everything is mere speculation.

Yeah right. I guess the 50M people that Stalin killed maybe just had a virus also. The degree to which you will support anti-democratic pro-Russian activity is astounding.

Let the Ukrainian people choose their own leaders, without Russian interference.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1776 times:

I am not so naive to think that political motivations may not be behind this, but at the same time, dioxins are especially prevalent in foods such as fish (one of the most common sources of dioxin poisoning).

As a rebuttal, how many occurrences of fish-based dioxin poisoning has the Ukraine reported over the past year? How may has Russia reported? If eating fish was so dangerous, then we would see more of these awful scenarios.



User currently offlineRussophile From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1755 times:

Yyz717, this is not about democracy or anything like that. For Yanukovich, it is about keeping the oligarchs in 'power'. For Yushchenko, it is about nationalism. As far as I am concerned, nationalism is just as bad as corruption.

I do not want either Yanukovich nor Yushchenko in the President seat in Ukraine. It is all a case of same shit, different smell. I am all for the Ukrainian people deciding who they want to elect, without interference from Russia and without interference from the EU/US.

But I will go on the record with this. I now unequivocally support Yushchenko in his Presidency attempt.

Jaysit, it isn't a case of this. It is a case of how many cases (however many there are) around the world in the last year garner media attention such as this one. And it isn't just fish, but a whole range of foods, as is mentioned on the website in the link. And it isn't just food it is possible to get it from.

It is also possible it was a virus, as already mentioned, in conjunction with other factors.

What was needed in this particular case, because of the consequences, was a totally independent medical examination and testing. And before anyone says it was independent because it was done in Austria, this is not the case. You will have noticed media reports on this issue quote a Dr Michael Zimpfer, who is the director of the Rudolfiner clinic in Vienna, however, Zimpfer is not his doctor. His doctor's name is a Mykola Karpan -- Mykola is Nikolai in Ukrainian (Mykola is used mainly within the western part) -- and he has gone on the record on quite a few occasions saying he supports Yushchenko's bid. Hardly the most independent medical opinion.

Who do I believe in this case? Yanukovich, who has political capital to gain from poisoning Yushchenko? Or Yushchenko, who has political capital to gain from claiming Yanukovich poisoned him? Again, it is a case of same shit, different smell.

And I think it is quite foolhardy to categorically state what the cause was, one way or the other.

On a sidenote, anyone know what The Coz's post was deleted?


User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7957 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1684 times:

The Doctors did provide evidence (and it wasn't only one but rather a group of physicians) that Yushchenko was poisoned but it's simply not their business to proof the poisoning was deliberate. A hospital is a hospital and completely different from a court, nor can doctors speculate over who was behind the poisoning.

was a totally independent medical examination and testing

Exactly that had happen. The hospital has an excellent reputation.

For all we know, he could have had a virus and also eaten some bad food.
Source, please? The concentration of Dioxin is 1,000 times higher than it should it. Bad food and a virus do not cause such a concentration of Dioxin in your liver.

Edit: And all the blackmailings the doctor received came from the fish dealer (or the virus, maybe)?

[Edited 2004-12-13 23:21:05]


I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineSinlock From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1647 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1663 times:

I truley feel a deep sorrow for Yushchenko, He will most likely have health effects for many years if not for the rest of his life.

As someone who's father died (painfully) from Agent Orange, I truly hope things go for the best in his future.



My Country can beat up your Country....
User currently offlineUnattendedbag From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2328 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1628 times:

"What was needed in this particular case, because of the consequences, was a totally independent medical examination and testing. And before anyone says it was independent because it was done in Austria"


Im sure he didn't just run down to the local free clinic to get a general test. He probably has the finest doctors (in his area) looking after him and treating him.

Either that, or he was in a fish eating contest and he was the only on to contract the toxin.



Slower traffic, keep right
User currently offlineRussophile From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1598 times:

unattendedbag, have a read of my post in which I name his doctor, and what his doctor went on the record with long before the results were even known.

noufo, the hospital might have a reputation, but that reputation is called into question when the resident Ukrainian pro-Yushchenko doctor speaks out about what I just wrote. And 1,000 times? So far I have seen reported 20 times, 50 times, 100 times, and now 1,000 times. Which is it?

and a source? what source? I am merely providing different scenarios -- of course, not presenting anything as fact or not.

http://www.onlinelawyersource.com/dioxin/poison.html

Because dioxin is so pervasive in the environment and our food supply, everyone is exposed to some degree of dioxin poison. People who are at particular risk for developing health problems caused by dioxin poison include young children, people who work or live near industrial or contaminated sites or products, and people who rely heavily on dioxin laden foods as their main source of sustenance. Dioxin poison takes years to be broken down in the body, allowing for the ill effects of this toxin to pose a threat to human health for most, if not all, of the human lifespan.

And additionally, this information:

http://slate.msn.com/id/2110979/

Another feature of the poison is that it takes a long time for the symptoms to show up—one reason Yushchenko's malady was not diagnosed earlier is that his chloracne took several weeks appear. The long onset time, however, means it is less likely that Yushchenko could have been poisoned only one night before he fell ill, when, as has been widely noted, he dined with the head of Ukraine's security service.

Why is the media (generally) reporting in such a way that they imply (either directly or indirectly) he was poisoned that night, when information available says that dioxin poisoning takes weeks for you to fall ill? Remember, Yushchenko himself claims that it was this night he was poisoned, because his own wife is on the record as saying that after kissing him that night she tasted the poison on his lips -- which also begs the question, if this poison was so strong as to cause you to be that ill, why did his wife not get the least bit sick? Surely she would have ingested trace amounts of it also?

Something smells somewhat, well, fishy here.



User currently offlineRussophile From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1597 times:

And one more thing in addition. Yushchenko has claimed that his political opponents tried to kill him by poisoning him.

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1634911,00.html

In Russia, which strongly supported Yanukovich, a health ministry official questioned the conclusions reached by the Austrian doctors.

"Dioxin is not a poison with an immediate effect, its toxicity builds up over years, dozens of years, and it is impossible to receive a dose one day that would poison you the next," said Yuri Ostapenko, head of the Russian health ministry's poison centre.


And

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20041212/news_1n12ukraine.html

"All the signs look like the last deliberate poisoning I saw," said Dr. Arnold Schecter, a dioxin specialist at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas. "It's perfectly consistent."

Unlike the immediate reactions caused by more common poisons such as arsenic or cyanide, dioxin's symptoms are delayed from two days to two weeks after exposure, no matter what the dosage, Schecter said. A single drop on food would be enough to have sickened Yushchenko, he said.


and

Olaf Pepke, a chemist in Hamburg, Germany, who has studied thousands of cases of dioxin poisoning, said he knows of no one who has died of dioxin poisoning itself.

"People will die as a result of dioxin, but this may be years later of a cancer," he said. "Until this day, we don't have a single instance where we can say that dioxin contamination resulted in an immediate death."


So why would his 'opponents' try to kill him by using a poison in which death has never resulted (quickly) as a result of its use? If they really wanted to kill him they could have staged a car accident or the like, and get the immediate result, because I am sure that 'whoever' 'poisoned' him would have known what this Olaf Pepke knows.

And to go back to what I wrote in my last post. This Arnold Schecter says that a single drop would have been enough to make him sick. 'Whoever' 'poisoned' him would have had to use a largish amount of this poison to get the '1,000' times result which is being quoted, so why didn't his wife get sick?


User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7957 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1557 times:

Russophile, with only very little common sense and a small number of reports on the poisoning, you can answer all the questions and respond to all the doubts you have raised by yourself.


I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineRussophile From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1477 times:

Russophile, with only very little common sense and a small number of reports on the poisoning, you can answer all the questions and respond to all the doubts you have raised by yourself.

I know that the answers being reported in the western media are a load of horseshit.

Yushchenko himself is claiming that the Ukrainian secret service poisoned him on the night of 5 September 2004.

However, he ate crawfish and salads (from a common bowl), and also drank beer, with 2 of the top secret service personnel and his campaign manager.

Better post the link to non-Russian media for 'fear' of being told I am rubbishing on:

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/10458512.htm?1c

So here it is. Why was he the ONLY one to fall sick that night? Why are NONE of the other 3 sick like he is? This would be the case if the 'poison' was contained in that food?

Why is Yushchenko still proclaiming that it was the secret service who poisoned him that night, when he is being shown to be a liar?

Why is Yushchenko turning the poisoning into an election issue, BUT yet doesn't want any investigation done into this issue until after the election? Why are the relevant Ukrainian authorities who are investigating the case receiving their information not from Yushchenko, but from the media? Could it be because the lies he is now telling might be exposed for what they are, and hence hurt him at the polls?

I hope that the lying scumbag Yushchenko does get elected. Because then, for once and for all, when Ukraine goes to total shit, people can't blame their usual scapegoat (i.e. Russian Federation) and will instead have to pin the blame squarely on Yushchenko, the EU and the US for what results from him being railroaded into office.


User currently offlineRussophile From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1473 times:

http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?ID=35103

I also have to laugh at this comment:

"The poison given me was hundreds of thousands of times stronger than cyanide,"

Viktor, old chum, if the poison was as strong as you say it was, I can guarantee that you would not be alive today to tell to make such idiotic comments. Big grin



User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5712 posts, RR: 18
Reply 22, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1469 times:

Russophile,
I thought the Russians had nothing to do with the poisoning of Yuschenko so why do you act here like Putin's chief trial lawyer?

Because then, for once and for all, when Ukraine goes to total shit, people can't blame their usual scapegoat (i.e. Russian Federation)

You meant usual suspect, right? I seriously doubt it could be any worse than being fuc*ed by Moscow for three quarters of a century... Refresh my memory, Russo, who was in charge of Ukraine 1917-1991???



User currently offlineRussophile From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1459 times:

Refresh my memory, Russo, who was in charge of Ukraine 1917-1991???

Refresh my memory, who was in charge of Ukraine 1991-2004? Can't scapegoat the Russians for this. Remember, under Yushchenko the economy floundered. Under Yanukovich the economy is rebounding.

I remember in another thread that Slawko made a point that people in western Ukraine are better off financially than their eastern Ukrainian counterparts. This may or may not be true, but consider that if it were to be true, a MAJOR reason for this is that around 30% of the population in western Ukrainian is working in RUSSIA at any given time. The Europeans don't want Ukrainians working in their countries. This will come to a halt if Yushchenko gets in. What then for the western Ukrainians? They think Europe will all of a sudden open up their doors?

Sorry, but Ukraine, particularly western Ukraine, doesn't know what it is getting itself in for. And none, I repeat none, of it will be the doing of Russia.

I thought the Russians had nothing to do with the poisoning of Yuschenko so why do you act here like Putin's chief trial lawyer?

Relevance to the discussion at hand? Zilch.  Insane  Insane  Insane

Maybe you could try commenting on what seems to be lies being put out by Yushchenko instead?

[Edited 2004-12-20 16:15:17]

User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21467 posts, RR: 53
Reply 24, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1440 times:

Russophile: Viktor, old chum, if the poison was as strong as you say it was, I can guarantee that you would not be alive today to tell to make such idiotic comments.

Wrong. Dioxin is one of the most toxic substances known, far more toxic than cyanide. In this case, its "benefit" was that the amount they had to use was much smaller than with cyanide.

As always, please think before posting...  Insane


25 Post contains images Russophile : Klaus, who is "they" as in "they had to use"? And for info. Dioxin is 1000 times more poisonous than cyanide. Not 100,000 times as Yushchenko claims -
26 777236ER : And for info. Dioxin is 1000 times more poisonous than cyanide. Not 100,000 times as Yushchenko claims -- so my comment does hold true in the case of
27 Fritzi : noufo, the hospital might have a reputation, but that reputation is called into question when the resident Ukrainian pro-Yushchenko doctor speaks out
28 Flyboy36y : But, I will go on the record with this. I now unequivocally support Yushchenko in his Presidency attempt KIEV, Ukraine, Dec 20th - A major development
29 Russophile : maybe you should have given another source other than 'one of the top Russian medical institutes'. Firstly, why should I? Nothing wrong with Russia's
30 Post contains images Russophile : Funny, Flyboy36y, but hey, what can I say? Fucking typical of Reuters, reporting news from that part of the world some SEVEN days after the event.
31 777236ER : Firstly, why should I? Nothing wrong with Russia's medical institutes. Yes there is, when Russia has a history of interfering with Russian scientists,
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