Jaws707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 708 posts, RR: 1 Posted (10 years 4 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 759 times:
I was looking at some cars online at pontiac.com and I noticed that the 2005 Pontiac Grand Prix used the 3800 series 3 engine, while the 2005 Pontiac Bonneville uses the 3800 series 2 engine. I mean its basically the same engine, with the series 3 obviously being the updated version, so I was wondering why doesnt GM just put the series 3 into both cars? It would definately be more cost effective to do that. Anyone have any ideas what GM's rational for using the older series and the newer series is?
57AZ From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2586 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 746 times:
Perhaps there is a supply issue involved. Either that or there is something about the new engine update that makes GM hesitant to switch over entirely until they have some base information on how the motor will perform in real life. GM's Electro Motive Division builds diesel electric locomotives using a similar principal. When they build a new locomotive or develope an improved powerplant, a set of demonstrators are put on the road visiting numerous railroads and operating under varying conditions. This is both to sell the product and collect real world performance data using test cars with onboard testing equipment. This may be an adaptation of that philosophy to new car technology.
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
DeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 728 times:
I believe the Grand Prix GT (or is it the Grand Am GT?) uses the 3800 Supercharged...not bad for it's displacement (3.8L), but is still a stinkin V6 lol.
Good question though....if you want a fun Pontiac car, get the new GTO...5.7L V8 LS1 engine standard (350 base at the flywheel, same engine as in the 97-04 Vette/my 2000 Camaro), or wait till next year and get the LS2 equipped GTO (same engine as the 05 Vette), with 415 base at the flywheels
Cptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3220 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 717 times:
Last I heard (before I retired, and also from a couple of "current" GM guys) is that it is a situation with not only capacity (60 deg V6 vs. 90 deg V6 tooling and outflow) but also percieved customer demand. Actually, the current 60 deg pushrod V6 is a highly refined powerplant (shit, it should be after a zillion years), but one would hope that all V6s will be null and void in the future because of inherent counterbalancing issues, but I digress).
To compound the production-run installation is the added expense of certification of every vehicle/engine/weight class formula for the government.
When I was @ GM, the in-house figures for an engine upgrade/degrade for any one car line was approx. 20 - 35 million dollars. By now, I am sure that the costs are appreciably higher. If a line exec doesn't feel that the costs will reap a benefit in customer appeal, the idea won't fly.
Further to actual vehicle production expenditures, there are certain formulas throughout the platform that must be upgraded; these include brakes (caliper pressures, rotor thicknesses), shocks (usually McPherson assms), spec dias on CVs, half-shafts, and so on. Every item is an added expense.
Most folks don't even realize why there is a speed governor on a Camaro Z28 convertible. It's because the extra 16 lbs weight of the Z-rated tires would put the convertible production car into a "gas-guzzler" category via US government criteria. Therefore, the corporation elected to lower the weight by installing a lighter, lower speed-rated tire and deferring several weight-sensitive accoutrements available on the glass 'T-top' model to save the customer the extra G-G tax. We initially did this by staggering the Hall-Wheel readouts to fake the computer control of fuel pressure, but I'm not entirely sure how the latest speed governor was put into production. Guyz'nGurlz in the know how to re-chip (and hopefully install an upper Z-rated set of treads if they want to get close to 150mph on their way to work). The bottom line is that if you can save a buck at The Autos, you are a king and will get closer to the top even if you are an asshole (see most of GM current management).
Sorry I got off-topic, but to answer your question, somebody with a calculator didn't see the benifit for the bottom-line. Have faith, though; there are some GM mid-sizers coming out in the near future that have healthy V8s and RWD. Regards...Jack