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Vermont, Canada?  
User currently offlineYukimizake From Japan, joined Mar 2004, 529 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 9 months 4 hours ago) and read 4022 times:

These people in Vermont want to secede from the United States and join Canada. They're pretty damn serious about it too, they even have bumper stickers and T-shirts.

http://www.vermontcanada.org/

Would anyone else be interested in becoming part of Canada? We'd like California and Hawaii to join.


'Opfer müssen gebracht werden (Sacrifices must be made)' - Otto Lilienthal
35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBravo7e7 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1840 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (9 years 9 months 4 hours ago) and read 4016 times:

No thanks. i don't like socialism. Whether they are serious or not it will not happen.

User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 2, posted (9 years 9 months 4 hours ago) and read 3997 times:

"i don't like socialism."

Yadda yadda yadda... What exactly made you think Canada is socialist? Judging from your signature, maybe you were too "God damn liberal" at an earlier time, you know.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineSKYSERVICE_330 From Canada, joined Sep 2000, 1419 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (9 years 9 months 2 hours ago) and read 3968 times:

SOCIALIST!!??? ..... wowzers, you're more far gone than I ever thought. Actually our two main parties are centre right and centre left with the party holding government being the latter of the two in a minority position. However, depending on which political scientists you talk to some say that Canada does not have a conservative party and both are actually on the left of the spectrum, just like some would say that the USA doesn't actually have a liberal party and both are on the right of the spectrum, however I would say that that is open to interpretation. Out of curiosity ... if Canada is socialist, then what is Sweden? ... or better yet what is the USA?

Cheers!


User currently offlineBravo7e7 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1840 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (9 years 9 months 2 hours ago) and read 3969 times:

Sweden is also socialist. U.S is capatilistic.

User currently offlineSKYSERVICE_330 From Canada, joined Sep 2000, 1419 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (9 years 9 months 2 hours ago) and read 3959 times:

I am curious to know the main differences between the two countries (Canada and the USA) that you are drawing to make such a distinction between the two. Care to elaborate...?

User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 6, posted (9 years 9 months 2 hours ago) and read 3941 times:

Thanks for making my day, BushCheney04!  Laugh out loud I figure all countries except the US are socialist?


Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (9 years 9 months 2 hours ago) and read 3933 times:

Bravo7e7: Praytell... please provide an explanation as to what your understanding of socialism is. Compare and contrast with the sociopolitical system we have in America, and then provide reasons as to why you don't like the Canadian system.


This should be interesting...



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineThecoz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 9 months 2 hours ago) and read 3933 times:


SOCIALIST!!??? ..... wowzers, you're more far gone than I ever thought.


I've easily spent in upwards of 3 years living in Nova Scotia, Canada. Everyone I've talked to (including Canadaians) says that Canada is a socialist country.


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 9, posted (9 years 9 months 2 hours ago) and read 3927 times:

Who the hell have you talked to, then?


Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineThecoz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 9 months 2 hours ago) and read 3925 times:

People who grew up there who were 60+ years older than I was. Whom have you talked with?

User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 11, posted (9 years 9 months 2 hours ago) and read 3921 times:

Well, mostly books "talked" to me and described a planned economy as a vital (or rather mortal) ingredient of any socialist society. As well, history has proven that true socialism cannot exist in a human society, and those countries who tried ended up with communist dictatorships.

Is "socialism" used in a way as different from the European one as the way you use "liberal"?



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineThecoz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 9 months 1 hour ago) and read 3911 times:

That's a hard question. I'm gonna verify with people I know up there to see what their opinons are. I've never heard anything but socialist though.  Confused

User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 13, posted (9 years 9 months 1 hour ago) and read 3907 times:

Well, if they define "socialist" as "with an eye on comparable standards of living", then I could agree on it, but that's in no way socialism as it's defined in Europe. The most important part of socialism is an entirely state-controlled planned economy which therefore cannot work, close to absolute control of every individual by the state and "equalised" standards of living everywhere, meaning that a professor earns just the same as a factory worker. In other words, trash everything that might make people want to work and you've got socialism.


Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineSKYSERVICE_330 From Canada, joined Sep 2000, 1419 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (9 years 9 months 1 hour ago) and read 3899 times:

Its frustrating when people throw terms around when they don't truly know the meaning. This has been demonstrated beautifully in this thread with respect to peoples understanding (or lack there of) of what socialism is. Aloges, you hit the nail on the head with respect to a state controlled economy which is one of the main tenants of any truly socialist state. This hardly pertains to Canada. Canada is concerned with the social welfare of its citizens however, this does not by any means make it a socialist country. Furthermore, history has proven that socialism has actually/technically never occurred in its true sense as Marx wrote the doctrine of the ideology to dictate because, as Aloges pointed out, it has resulted in totalitarian dictatorships. Heck, when Marx died he is documented as saying "I am not a Marxist" as his original idea had been changed and manipulated in ways he did not approve of. However, I digress...

BC2004/Bravo7e7, you have been asked twice to substantiate your points as to what the basis is for your argument. Now, as a student I am sure you know that any good thesis argument/statement needs to be backed up with empirical evidence, so, I ask you again... What is the basis of your claim that Canada is a socialist state, and furthermore, can you draw comparisons to the USA as to where you see the main distinctions being for your aforementioned claim.

I look forward to your reply.

Edited for a typo.

[Edited 2004-12-24 02:45:39]

User currently offlineArrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2676 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (9 years 9 months 1 hour ago) and read 3888 times:
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This is getting ridiculous. We're talking about degrees of socialism. To all you red-blooded capitalists out there who think the US doesn't have socialism, take a look at the Social Security system. What's that if it isn't socialist? How about public education? That's socialist, too. Unions? Yup, flagantly red. You guys are worried about Bin Laden, but the commies have already corrupted you irretrievably.

On a global socialism scale of 1-10, the U.S. is zero and Canada is 1. And I wouldn't have it any other way.




Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
User currently offlineThecoz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 9 months 1 hour ago) and read 3881 times:

On a global socialism scale of 1-10, the U.S. is zero and Canada is 1

You're talking about degrees of socialism too.


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 17, posted (9 years 9 months 1 hour ago) and read 3877 times:

"You're talking about degrees of socialism too."

If someone said, "Well, I'm physically and technically able to kill someone." would you send him to death row, too? Please, degrees are degrees - every country is a bit of everything; it's a bit of a democracy, a bit of a dictatorship, a bit socialist, a bit capitalist, you get the point.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineArrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2676 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (9 years 9 months 1 hour ago) and read 3875 times:
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"You're talking about degrees of socialism too."

No, I'm making a smart-ass remark to point out that Canada and the U.S. are both on the "capitalist" side of the spectrum. Anyone who spurns Canada solely because it's "socialist" clearly has no idea what that means.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
User currently offlineRT514 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3811 times:

I've easily spent in upwards of 3 years living in Nova Scotia, Canada. Everyone I've talked to (including Canadaians [sic]) says that Canada is a socialist country.

What's your point, theCoz?
I've spent 5 years living in North Dakota, USA and everyone I've talked to (including Americans) says that North Dakota is a lousy place. That does not mean, however, that "everyone" is correct in their conclusions, nor is it what I've necessarily concluded.

Perhaps you're inclined to follow and believe what "everyone" says.
I'm not.


User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 20, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3803 times:

Bravo7e7, why don't you grow up a little before you start spurting off big words that you don't know the meaning of.

Canada...I repeat...CANADA is NOT a socialist country. Having universal healthcare a socialist society does not make. That's the problem with the right of America. They see any sort of government aid to their people as a form of socialism. Here, they'd rather spend the money on unnecessary wars.

I hope to GOD that Vermont decides to join Canada. I'd be a citizen of Vermont so fast!

LH423



« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User currently offlineDuke From Canada, joined Sep 1999, 1155 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3801 times:

Well, Canada is probably more socialist on the whole than the US. Better medicare, for example. And the province of Quebec IS very socialist IMO.

By the way, I am very pro-socialist. I am not a communist, nor do I believe in free handouts to those who won't get off welfare etc. I am however still a socialist.

And if Vermont or any other state were to wish to join Canada, that would be great. Canada is IMO a more democratic, less polarized, less pompous country.


User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 22, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3792 times:

Duke: I agree. Canada has the perfect balance of social programs (something many Americans immediately take to being socialism) and a liberal, capitalistic society.

We need more people like you to educate Americans on what Canada is REALLY like

LH423 <====Hopeful Canadian



« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User currently offlineQb001 From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2053 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3779 times:

The previous posts escape the real debate, which is : should Vermont join Canada ?

Personally, I don't know, yet. But I do like the debate though.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good theory.
User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 24, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3780 times:

Qb001: Here's what you gain from Vermont.

1. Some damn fine ski resorts

2. Cows

3. Ummm...well, skiing and milk are still good!

Seriously, Vermont is a beautiful state with some very friendly people. It's also extremely rural and a great way to escape from the city.

LH423



« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
25 Qb001 : I know Vertmont is great. I've always said that if ever I was to move south of the border, for whatever reason, that's the only place I could live.
26 Post contains images Blackbird1331 : LH423: I wish they would join New Jersey.
27 Post contains images Slawko : Bring them on....the bigger the better They will have to be number 12 though, im still hopfull that the Turks and Caicos will be number 11 Says a lot
28 Thecoz : RT514: Perhaps you're inclined to follow and believe what "everyone" says. I'm not. That makes absolutely no sense. If I'm not supposed to listen to
29 JetMechMD80 : Says a lot about your country when people from other countries want to leave and join you... Well, since millions of people the world over have tried
30 BOEING747-700 : " im still hopfull that the Turks and Caicos will be number 11" Me too, I hope that they do become part of Canada, it will be good for everyone.
31 Post contains images UN_B732 : Last I knew Canada is still a free capitalist market, that wasn't "planned". I'd vote for this if it was on the ballot. We've always been free-thinker
32 KLM672 : Living in VT, usa 5 MINUTES from Canada, this is the first time I have heard of such a thing..
33 RT514 : TheCoz: If I'm not supposed to listen to Canadians about their country, then who do I listen to? I suggest research. That way, you can make your own c
34 Airplay : I would welcome Vermont to our glorious people's republic of Canada. Come on in! Don't worry about anything. The government will take care of everythi
35 Lowrider : Vermont is a beautiful area, but its loss would not devistate the US. Maybe some sort of trade can be worked out. We give you VT and get Toronto and a
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