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What Makes Something Living?  
User currently offlineJfkaua From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1000 posts, RR: 3
Posted (10 years 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3132 times:

This is a question I have always asked myself... What exactly makes something living... Obviously you think you and I are living... Most likely you think a dog and cat are... What makes us really have our own body of thought and not just a bunch of atoms stuck together? If I have my entire body transplanted one piece at a time... At what point am I no longer myself? If we make a perfect replicate human from scratch.. Is it real? Is it really thinking? At what point does something that's just a bunch of molecules become something that can think, love and feel? Just remember there is no answer.. Just opinions...

[Edited 2004-12-27 04:06:02]

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8775 posts, RR: 42
Reply 1, posted (10 years 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3117 times:

Biologically, I'd say it lives if it shits. That is, if it has a metabolism.


Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineThecoz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3115 times:

Well, how about if it is capable of dying, then it is living.

User currently offlineJfkaua From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1000 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (10 years 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3112 times:

so if mankind makes a humanoid robot that charges itself and can live automonotsly .. its it alive? is it thinking like you and me?

User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8775 posts, RR: 42
Reply 4, posted (10 years 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3110 times:

That's whern we'd get into serious ethical trouble - would this "Data" be a form of life? Biologically yes, if it fed on things growing around it and left behind nothing but degradable, well, "stuff". Ethically? No way to tell (yet), we don't really know if plants have a conscience, but we do consider them to be forms of life.


Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineJfkaua From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1000 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (10 years 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3105 times:

exactly.. when does something have a consceince... what in your body makes you something that thinks?

User currently offlineAerobalance From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 4686 posts, RR: 46
Reply 6, posted (10 years 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3092 times:

The ability to fog a mirror or maintain a pulse.


"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
User currently offlineThecoz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3086 times:

I think the presence of a central nervous system is mutually exclusive for consciousness to be present as well.

What about plants? They may not be conscious, but most people would say they are alive.


User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5427 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (10 years 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3080 times:

Well if I remember correctly from Biology 101, something's alive if it demonstrates the following characteristics:

Growth
Metabolism
Motion (either external or internal)
Reproduction
Response to stimuli



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineJfkaua From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1000 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (10 years 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3071 times:

yea I know what catagorizes something as living.. but what about when does something actually become a thinking body? If one created a human robot.. that eats food like us... breathes like us has a pulse like us... Is it something that can feel? Would you feel bad throwing it off a building.. or was it just a machine? What I am basically getting at is do you believe that there is something that has not yet been discovered that makes something actually exsist... Because if you break it down.. all you are is a bunch of molecules that interact in different ways with hormones and other things in your body... I honestly think its a question that is impossible to answer..

User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3067 times:

The ability to function in some capacity...whether it be a plant doing photosynthesis, or a baby kicking in it's mother's womb....both those have the ability to die as well....you can't die if you were dead from the getgo.

I think it's rather simple really....plants don't have heartbeats/brainwaves, but you find people protecting their rights more than you have people protecting unborn children's rights.

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineJfkaua From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1000 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (10 years 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3056 times:

so is a robot a concious thing? would you feel bad pushing it off a building?

User currently offlineEspion007 From Denmark, joined Dec 2003, 1691 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3055 times:

but you find people protecting their rights more than you have people protecting unborn children's rights.

better quit now before we turn this thread into a political war.



Snakes on a Plane!
User currently offlineKyleLosAngeles From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 214 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (10 years 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3055 times:

" ... plants don't have heartbeats/brainwaves, but you find people protecting their rights more than you have people protecting unborn children's rights ... "


Ah, and there we have it. Someone took the bait, and this becomes a soapbox for unrelated conservatism.



Happy 2006
User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3051 times:

HOORAH

I have officially managed to highjack a thread  Big grin

And no, I don't feel one bit bad when I disable robots...it won't hate me whenever we decide to give it back it's motherboard  Laugh out loud

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineJfkaua From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1000 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (10 years 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3048 times:

now what if that robot runs of a human brain... would you feel bad then?

User currently offlineKyleLosAngeles From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 214 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (10 years 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3042 times:

DeltaGuy - your hijack has been hijacked.

instead of discussing what makes something "living", we are now discussing what makes something "human", thanks to you and Jfkaua.  Smile



Happy 2006
User currently offlineJfkaua From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1000 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (10 years 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3040 times:

Hey I started this thread ... no this is what I am getting at.. he stated as most people would that no they wouldn't feel bad killing a robot.. its just a machine... now what If the robot uses a human heart to pump blood... would you feel bad yet? what about if the nerves are all those just like a human.. what if it has a brain thats an exact model of a humans brain... Would you feel bad yet? At what point is something not just a bunch of matter... but its something that actually feels?

User currently offlineXJRamper From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2473 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (10 years 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3035 times:

your original question was not about AI, but what makes something living. to that i say nutrients. everything needs nutrients to survive, if not...drum roll please...it dies. there are no man made parts involved. sorry robot poster.

At what point is something not just a bunch of matter

everything is matter, to our human brains do we assign value.

xjr



Look ma' no hands!
User currently offlineJfkaua From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1000 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (10 years 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3034 times:

ok maybe I worded the initial question wrong... when does something have a soul... when would you feel bad killing something... what gives it its soul, and not just a body of matter that does a bunch of computations..

this quote kind of shows what I am talking about..


------
There’s little doubt that by the year 2035, you’ll be able to buy the compute power of a human brain for the price of a lunch. That’s right: a chip with the processing power of that gray CPU in your skull will cost no more than a single bill out of the ATM machine.

Now admittedly, there are some who believe that, despite such capability, machines will never be capable of human-style intelligence. But that suggests that there is some sort of unfathomable miracle going on between our ears.
-------

[Edited 2004-12-27 07:58:13]

User currently offlineXJRamper From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2473 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (10 years 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3028 times:

But that suggests that there is some sort of unfathomable miracle going on between our ears.

Nope...just some gray matter.

XJR



Look ma' no hands!
User currently offlineJfkaua From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1000 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (10 years 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3027 times:

oh screw this I give up lol.. i think i'll have better luck posting this at deepphilosophers.com or something

Isn't there anyone out there that understand what I am saying??? Your brain does computations and so does my computer... But for some reason i feel bad throwing you off a building but i couldn't give a sh*t about my computer.. What is it inside us that makes us able to decipher things that even the most powerful computers and best programmers cannot, even though computers can handle so much more raw information then us.

[Edited 2004-12-27 08:04:33]

User currently offlineXJRamper From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2473 posts, RR: 51
Reply 22, posted (10 years 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3021 times:

We are only as smart as the computers we build...when they start thinking for themselves we are screwed.

XJR



Look ma' no hands!
User currently offlineJfkaua From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1000 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (10 years 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3020 times:

well obiously a computer can see if you add a camera lense... hear with a microphone and i'm sure you could make a computer that has all the senses a human does.. but no matter what you do.. it just won't have the same "common sense" if you will, that a human does..

User currently offlineXJRamper From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2473 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (10 years 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3018 times:

Well then I am safe, I do not have a mic nor do I have a webcam.

And have you seen I, Robot...If you have then the computer will have the three laws.

XJR



Look ma' no hands!
25 Jfkaua : uh oh.. i got a mic /webcam.. I see the 3 laws are # A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm. #
26 BNE : What Makes Something Living? WHEN ITS NOT DEAD
27 Diamond : Jfkaua, Hey, don't get frustrated if your point is being missed. You are asking your own question on several different levels. If you type "define:ali
28 Aloges : Jfkaua, I think you'll never get a definite answer to that question, when ethics are concerned. Why? Because there is no definite answer. As for me, I
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