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Inauguration Prayer Ban Decision Expected Friday  
User currently offlineStowAway From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 640 posts, RR: 4
Posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1146 times:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,144261,00.html

This is bull. The tradition has been around 200 years! So what if they want to start with a prayer? The Presidency needs a prayer with as much heat as he takes nowadays!




A monkey's ass always talks crap.
63 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13556 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1134 times:
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Y'know what though - who is the judicial branch going to get to enforce a "no prayer" ruling, should one come out? If the President decides he's going to have it done - as the head of the executive branch - who would stop him?


"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineXJRamper From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2460 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1127 times:

You know they might as well knock out the 1st ammendment. Pretty soon there will be a book taught to the school children about what they can say, how they can say it, when and where they can say it, and to whom they can say it to.

If you are an atheist, don't listen to the prayer, be respectful to the people who will listen, and then redirect your attention back to the front when the prayer is done.

XJR



Look ma' no hands!
User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1126 times:

If I were Bush, I would say my own prayer at the inauguration, courts be damned. As a religious man, he should be able to say a prayer at his own presidential inauguration if he wants.

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineXJRamper From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2460 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1125 times:

as the head of the executive branch - who would stop him?

He has control of 1/3 of the US branches. That is why there are three different branches...so they have checks and balances.

XJR



Look ma' no hands!
User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1123 times:

If you are an atheist, don't listen to the prayer, be respectful to the people who will listen, and then redirect your attention back to the front when the prayer is done.

Exactly. But instead of this, they try to inconvenience the rest of us by telling us what we can say. Special interest groups in this country are horrible, and we are turning into a country of minority rule.

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1119 times:

StowAway,

I hate to correct you, and I know you ditto heads just hate when fox and rush are wrong, but the phrase "under god" was only added to the pledge in the 1950's.

Secondly, there have been presidents, I can't remember right off hand which ones, who took their oaths without mention of God.


Also, please remember, that the "founding fathers" were really closer to being diests then contemporary conservative Christians.

And please, get over it. There is no persecution of Christians, and Christian values in the US.

dtwclipper



User currently offlineB757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 23
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1121 times:

Y'know what though - who is the judicial branch going to get to enforce a "no prayer" ruling, should one come out? If the President decides he's going to have it done - as the head of the executive branch - who would stop him?

As Andrew Jackson said "John Marshall has made his decision. Now let him enforce it."



"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13556 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1114 times:
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as the head of the executive branch - who would stop him?

He has control of 1/3 of the US branches. That is why there are three different branches...so they have checks and balances.


Yes, and that's also why there are separation of powers, too. Meaning the President could effectively ignore such an order if he wanted, since the court lacks ENFORCEMENT authority.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineNewark777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 9348 posts, RR: 30
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1106 times:

I hate to correct you, and I know you ditto heads just hate when fox and rush are wrong, but the phrase "under god" was only added to the pledge in the 1950's.

When did we start talking about the pledge? People think that they can just drop this fact in here, when it has absolutely nothing to do with what we are talking about, and it instantly means that separation of church and state is necessary. Either way, I still pledge allegiance to one nation, under God.

Harry



Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
User currently offlineStowAway From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 640 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1105 times:

I hate to correct you, and I know you ditto heads just hate when fox and rush are wrong, but the phrase "under god" was only added to the pledge in the 1950's.

This country was founded under the belief of God. Just because it wasn't included in our pledge until 1950 is irrelevant.

Secondly, there have been presidents, I can't remember right off hand which ones, who took their oaths without mention of God.

That is certainly their right. By that same token, it would be President Bush's right to say a prayer, yes?

Also, please remember, that the "founding fathers" were really closer to being diests then contemporary conservative Christians.

Honestly, I was not aware that the founding fathers were close to being diests. Which founding fathers are you speaking of? The article mentions that this tradition dates back to Washington's days.

And please, get over it. There is no persecution of Christians, and Christian values in the US.

I disagree. We have people trying to take away Christmas. We have atheists like the one mentioned above who want "under god," removed from the pledge. Now this? Let's not even get into the radical and offensive remarks that are made against Christians on this board alone! BN747 serves as a good example of that. Christian values are being persecuted in our current culture war.

You know, it is a lot easier just to ignore the prayer.



A monkey's ass always talks crap.
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1088 times:

"Christian values are being persecuted in our current culture war."

Right!

You know what, this is not a Christian country....period. I am not Christian, and I am an American and not a traitor, as you people like to call all non-believers. I feel that you people are trying to turn this country into a radical fundamentals state no better than those in the middle east!

"Also, please remember, that the "founding fathers" were really closer to being diests then contemporary conservative Christians"

Read your history, of Jefferson, Franklin, et al. I would be more than happy to recommend a few books, though they are most likely not sanctioned by FOX.

My grandfather fought in WWI, my father in WWII, and my brother in Viet Nam, we are just as American as the Christian conservatives!

I am a patriot who hates the direction this country is going in. No one is trying to take away Christmas, but buddy, you don't need to ram it down the throats of everyone.


[Edited 2005-01-14 03:25:17]

User currently offlineStowAway From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 640 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1081 times:

You know what, this is not a Christian country....period. I am not Christian, and I am an American and not a traitor, as you people like to call all non-believers. I feel that you people are trying to turn this country into a radical fundamentals state no better than those in the middle east!

You are right. This is not a Christian country. This is a free country, and all are permitted to worship whoever they please. Listen to yourself. "You people." I never called you a traitor. Somebody else might have, but I didn't. To group me in with them is asinine, and just proves my point for me.

Read your history, of Jefferson, Franklin, et al. I would be more than happy to recommend a few books, though they are most likely not sanctioned by FOX.

I know my history pretty well. I never heard of those people practicing those beliefs. That is why I asked you. Will you be enlightening me, or will you be spouting off venomous statements as the one above?


My grandfather fought in WWI, my father in WWII, and my brother in Viet Nam, we are just as American as the Christian conservatives!

I agree, 150%

No one is trying to take away Christmas, but buddy, you don't need to ram it down the throats of everyone.

I am going to have to throw the B.S. flag. It is no longer a Christmas tree. It is now a "Holiday Tree." All over the country different groups are trying to take Christmas out of the holidays. It is fine if you don't want to celebrate Christmas. However, some of us really do take it as a religious holiday. Please don't ruin it for us. I ,for one, hate the commercialism of Christmas, as well.



A monkey's ass always talks crap.
User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1081 times:
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Well, to be accurate, yes....people are trying to take away Christmas. The Holiday is continually being removed from the public eye, and not just in government. Department stores instructed their people to avoid saying Merry Christmas during the Christmas season that provides them their biggest buying period of the year. It seems they are spitting on the hand that feeds them.

The founding fathers were mixed in their religious beliefs, some were deists, notably Jefferson and Franklin, but others were rather devout in their religious beliefs.

The observance of religious rites and ceremonies does not establish a religion of the state, any more than my wishing a Jewish person "Happy Hanukkah" makes me a Jew.

This person who is attacking religion through the courts obviously has some outside help behind him. His desire to harm organized religion seems to be moving into the realm of obsession, and will work to limit the rights of others.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1068 times:

The US is a largely Christian nation, whether devout or secular. Any non-Christians came to the US as a Christian majority nation and shared in the bounty that the Christian majority created so no one should be offended by a Christian prayer. Anyone who is, is a whiner.

This political correctness has got to stop




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineStowAway From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 640 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1058 times:

Yyz717, Talk about short,simple,and to the point! Nicely put.  Big thumbs up

DL021,
The observance of religious rites and ceremonies does not establish a religion of the state, any more than my wishing a Jewish person "Happy Hanukkah" makes me a Jew.

You pegged it on the nose! Our country is about embracing all religions!



A monkey's ass always talks crap.
User currently offlineScottieprecord From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1363 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1049 times:

Happy Christmahanukwanzaka...

I think this says it all.

-Mike


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1049 times:

As Andrew Jackson said "John Marshall has made his decision. Now let him enforce it."

Dammit, B757300, you stole my thunder!  Laugh out loud

Again, the Constitution guarantees freedom OF Religion, not freedom FROM religion.


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1045 times:

Any non-Christians came to the US as a Christian majority nation and shared in the bounty that the Christian majority created so no one should be offended by a Christian prayer. Anyone who is, is a whiner

What absolute drivel! Shared in the bounty...shared in the bounty! You people need to take some history lessons!

Let's just look at the Jews in colonial America!




The first Jews in the United States came from Portuguese-ruled Brazil. In 1654, twenty-three adult Spanish-Portuguese (Sephardic) Jews arrived in New Amsterdam. In 1655, more Jews arrived from Holland. Nine years later, the British took over what would become New York and the situation regarding freedom of worship improved from that time.

In colonial times, Jews settled along the Atlantic coast and in several southern states. The Touro Synagogue, built in 1773, still stands as a memorial to the patriot and philanthropist Judah Touro

And what about:

Haym Solomon, backer of the revolutionary war!

He was an astute merchant and banker and succeeded in accumulating a huge fortune, which he subsequently devoted to the use of the American Government during the American Revolution. For example, he negotiated all the war aid from France and Holland, endorsing and selling bills to American merchants.

He was the paymaster-general of the French military forces in the early times of the United States. It is asserted that over $100,000 he advanced was never repaid. He lent the young United Sates government about $600,000, and at his death about $400,000 of this amount had not been repaid. This was irrespective of what he had lent to statesman and others while performing public duties and trusts.

He was a brilliant financier and one of George Washington's personal friends. At one point he was sentenced to death by the British, but he bribed his jailer and escaped. During the American Revolution, Solomon went to France and raised an additional 3.5 million British pounds from the Sassoon and Rothschild banking houses and families. He spoke eight languages. When Solomon was in France he passed himself off as a French diplomat.

[edit]
Historical legends about him
Solomon supposedly wrote the first draft of the United States Constitution according to some historians. Some claim that he designed The Great Seal of the United States , which is why it has what some believe resembles a Jewish Star above the eagle's head design, and it is also on the back of every American one dollar bill. He believed the United States would become a world power. At war's end, many in the Continental Congress were desperately poor and ironically Solomon too died completely bankrupt.

[edit]
Jewish pride
He was involved in Jewish community affairs, being a member of Mikveh Israel Congregation in Philadelphia, and in 1782 made the largest individual contribution towards the construction of its main building. In 1783 Haym Solomon and other prominent Jews appealed to the Pennsylvania Council of Censors urging them to remove the religious test oath required for office-holding under the State Constitution. In 1784, he answered Anti-Semitic slander in the press by stating: "I am a Jew; it is my own nation; I do not despair that we shall obtain every other privilege that we aspire to enjoy along with our fellow-citizens."

[edit]
Early death
The gravesite of Haym Solomon is at Mikveh Israel Cemetery in Philadelphia , it is unmarked, and two plaques memorialize him. The following obituary was printed in the Independent Gazetteer: "Thursday, last, expired, after a lingering illness, Mr. Hyam Solomon, an eminent broker of this city, was a native of Poland, and of the Hebrew nation. He was remarkable for his skill and integrity in his profession, and for his generous and humane deportment. His remains were yesterday deposited in the burial ground of the synagogue of this city." He is commemorated by a marble tablet on its east wall installed by his great-grandson, William Salomon. A granite memorial is set inside the gate of the cemetery.

[edit]
Honors, testimonials, and memorials
In 1893 a bill was presented before the 52nd United States Congress ordering a gold medal struck in recognition of Solomon's contributions to the United States. In 1941 the writer Howard Fast wrote a book "Haym Salomon Son of Liberty". In 1941, the George Washington-Robert Morris-Haym Salomon Memorial was erected along Wacker Drive in downtown Chicago. In 1975 the United States Postal Service issued a commemorative stamp honoring Haym Soloman for his contributions to the cause of the American Revolution. This stamp was uniquely printed on the front and the back. On the glue side of the stamp, the following words were printed in pale, green ink:

"Financial Hero - Businessman and broker Haym Salomon was responsible for raising most of the money needed to finance the American Revolution and later to save the new nation from collapse."

Many Historians have said that without his contribution to the cause "there would be no America today".

[edit]
1975 stamp issued by USPS: First day cover honoring Haym Salomon


User currently offlineStowAway From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 640 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1035 times:

Outstanding, DTW. That only proves the point that religion has a big place in America.


A monkey's ass always talks crap.
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1024 times:

Let's just look at the Jews in colonial America!

Oh please. No offense to US Jews but they were, and are, a tiny minority. Never more than 2% of the population. Their contribution to the US is tiny as it is with any 2% minority group.

The Christian identity in the US eclipses the Jewish identity by a factor of 40 or 50 to 1 based on demographics. It always has.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1013 times:

StowAway & Yyz717,

You missed the point of my example. The US is not a Christian Country, we do not have a state religion, nor should the values of the majority be forced on others. This is not (yet) a theocracy.

Secondly, YYZ, you said everyone else shared in the bounty that the colonial Christians (I paraphrase) created. That's just not so, and is basically revisionist history.

"Oh please. No offense to US Jews but they were, and are, a tiny minority. Never more than 2% of the population. Their contribution to the US is tiny as it is with any 2% minority group"

The Jewish contribution to American society is proportionately far greater then the numbers of its citizens, that is a fact.

History is not black or white, but has many different facets.


User currently offlineStowAway From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 640 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1007 times:

The US is not a Christian Country, we do not have a state religion, nor should the values of the majority be forced on others. This is not (yet) a theocracy.

I did not miss your point. I agree that we have no state religion. All religions are welcome to be practiced. However, you are 110% wrong when you say that the values of the majority are being forced on others. YOU are YOUR own person. It is YOUR job to think for YOURSELF. If people want to celebrate a religious holiday, or open with a prayer at their presidential inauguration, so be it! That is the beautiful thing about freedom.



A monkey's ass always talks crap.
User currently offlineXJRamper From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2460 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1000 times:

Ok....YYZ show me the numbers from a credible source and then I may believe you.

Not sure how Christmas was brought into this, but I may need to remind you that Christmas barely relates to Christianity. Back in the late 1800s there was a man by the name of Saint Nicholas who went around his hometown orphanages and placed presents in all the children's shoes. This was the beginning of Santa Claus. Presents (pagan) were put under a spruce tree (pagan) that was decorated (pagan) with lights (pagan) ornaments (pagan) and the occasional Candy cane (pagan). Since then, every December 25, (pagan...actual birth and death of Christ happened in spring time) Christmas morning children would awake at the crack of dawn to find presents awaiting them under this tree. That is what we people see when it comes to Christmas today.

Now, I want you to find Saint Nick and Santa Claus and everything else that I listed there anywhere in the Christian bible. What?!?!?!? Not there?!?!?!?!? Its gotta be somewhere in Christian doctrine. NADA people. Its not Christian...Christmas is pagan not Christian(if you don't know what pagan means...Id suggest you look it up...or everything that preceded pagan will have no meaning)

And the phrase...In God We Trust:

Almost everyone has a god...it doesn't say In Jesus We Trust, In Yaweh We Trust, In Buddha We Trust....It says In God We Trust...with the God part interchangeable. And for those non-believers, Its called Freedom OF SPEECH and Freedom OF RELIGION.

XJR



Look ma' no hands!
User currently offlineStowAway From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 640 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 995 times:

XJR,

I had actually never heard where the story of present day "Christmas" stems from. Pretty interesting!

actual birth and death of Christ happened in spring time)

Last I heard the birth was believed to be in August. Those who believe really don't know the actual time, and Christmas is used as the time to remember the birth by those who choose to. BUT, Your are definitely right that Christmas can mean so many other non religious things.

Almost everyone has a god...it doesn't say In Jesus We Trust, In Yaweh We Trust, In Buddha We Trust....It says In God We Trust...with the God part interchangeable. And for those non-believers, Its called Freedom OF SPEECH and Freedom OF RELIGION.

Well said



A monkey's ass always talks crap.
25 Post contains links LOT767-300ER : "Ok....YYZ show me the numbers from a credible source and then I may believe you." Theres about 5.5 million Jews in the USA, and about 160 million of
26 XJRamper : Thank you for correcting me LOT. I was under the (wrong) assumption that there were a lot more than that. Apprectiate it as always: XJR
27 MaverickM11 : "Never more than 2% of the population. Their contribution to the US is tiny as it is with any 2% minority group" You need to move that decimal one pla
28 Pendrilsaint : I don't understand where the need for a prayer at the innaugeration comes up? We are an incredibly diverse nation and there are more than practicing C
29 StowAway : Pendrilsaint, Bush is a man whose faith is very important to him. It changed who he was. Why shouldn't he have the right to lead his inauguration with
30 Kalakaua : The constitution does NOT separate church and state. The constitution PREVENTS government from establishing and sanctioning one religion over another.
31 Kalakaua : Should we also ban the "Before Christ, Anno Domini" calendars, too?
32 SKYSERVICE_330 : This debate should not be focused on Christians being persecuted or freedom of religion or freedom from religion. This debate is about one thing only
33 Post contains links Rjpieces : Oh please. No offense to US Jews but they were, and are, a tiny minority. Never more than 2% of the population. Their contribution to the US is tiny a
34 StowAway : There should be no mixing of any religion, Christian, Jewish, Catholic etc., with the states functions. Not a possibility if you are looking to lead a
35 SKYSERVICE_330 : Interesting ... care to elaborate though? Is it fair to assume that you believe that to develop or lead a civilized society there needs to be a strong
36 Falcon84 : I don't understand where the need for a prayer at the innaugeration comes up? We are an incredibly diverse nation and there are more than practicing C
37 ANCFlyer : Dtwclipper Secondly, there have been presidents, I can't remember right off hand which ones, who took their oaths without mention of God Prove that. D
38 StowAway : Interesting ... care to elaborate though? Is it fair to assume that you believe that to develop or lead a civilized society there needs to be a strong
39 777236ER : I believe in order to lead a civilized society; one has to have some sort of spiritual core. Britain is civilised, and doesn't have a spiritual core.
40 ANCFlyer : Britain is civilised, and doesn't have a spiritual core. Church of England? Did I miss something? Archbishop of Canterbury? Maybe I watch too much TV
41 777236ER : The Church of England isn't actually the church of England, it's merely a denomination of church. The Archbishop of Canterbury isn't the archbishop of
42 Newark777 : Getting off the topic of England's religious affiliations, the fact remains that many opinion polls during the election showed that a majority of Amer
43 StowAway : 777236ER,as usual, you miss the mark. I was not talking about a country have AN OFFICIAL RELIGION. I was saying that a country MUST EMBRACE ALL RELIGI
44 777236ER : No, the country embraces NO religions, but ALLOWS people to embrace religions. Britain doesn't have a 'national' religion, nor a national spiritualism
45 XJRamper : Harry, Altho a presidential candidate has a religious background...its only part of the equation. Mainly, the man has to have a family. Look at the Ma
46 Dtwclipper : ANCFlyer: I just love proving you guys wrong! Presidents have appealed to the deity in their oaths since the inauguration of George Washington.[159] W
47 XJRamper : No, the country embraces NO religions, but ALLOWS people to embrace religions Thats the point he is trying to make. Britain doesn't have a 'national'
48 Post contains images Newark777 : Kerry tried to portray his faith due to the overwhelming American say that a leader needs to have faith. Another one of his many, many facades. That i
49 StowAway : 777, __________ This is the level that this conversation is on _________ You are here** If the country allows freedom of religion, then it EMBRACES AL
50 Post contains images Newark777 : I hope you don't mean this 777. Harry
51 StowAway : Sorry, I meant 777236ER.....
52 Jmc1975 : The truth is, we need God's blessing on our country, period. President Bush's prayer is merely seeking God's wisdom, guidance and protection for our c
53 Post contains images Newark777 : Well, we know what the outcome is now, so we can all go to sleep happy. Harry
54 SKYSERVICE_330 : Stowaway, Ok, I THINK I agree with you, LOL, if I understand what you are saying properly. "I believe in order to lead a civilized society; one has to
55 777236ER : If the country allows freedom of religion, then it EMBRACES ALL RELIGIONS. Geese,man No, it doesn't, there's a clear semantic difference. A country th
56 Post contains images StowAway : Spirituality, whatever religion it may be, has a very powerful presence in an individuals life and through their beliefs they can add to then enhancem
57 XJRamper : If the country allows freedom of religion, then it EMBRACES ALL RELIGIONS No, it doesn't Really? If you have freedom of religion, you embrace all reli
58 Yukimizake : If GWB wants to have a prayer then fine, he can have it, no one is harmed by this. The lawsuit was all about Michael Newdow seeking attention 'Preside
59 Post contains images Newark777 : If GWB wants to have a prayer then fine, he can have it, no one is harmed by this. The lawsuit was all about Michael Newdow seeking attention For once
60 SKYSERVICE_330 : "We can recognize religion without setting our policies strictly based on ONE religion." Definitely agree with you there, however I would be tempted t
61 Post contains images StowAway : Skyservice, Ok, Yeah, I am kind of with you. Religion should be kept out of the states functions, but the presence of spirituality in the government s
62 SKYSERVICE_330 : Stowaway, Sounds good...LOL! Wow... if only all the debates on this board were as civilized as the one you and I just had ... imagine the possibilites
63 StowAway : Skyservice, It is definitely a rare thing on these boards! I really respect you for that.
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