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Hotel Rwanda Film  
User currently offlineCaribb From Canada, joined Nov 1999, 1637 posts, RR: 8
Posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1891 times:

I saw this movie last night - very emotional and tense.. quite an amazing film.. anyone see it yet? If so what did you think of it?

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17494 posts, RR: 45
Reply 1, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1865 times:

Haven't seen it yet but I asked the same question on this forum about two weeks ago; no one responded:-(. Regardless, I really do want to see it. Is it worth it? No one is playing the movie in the Denver area yet which is odd though.


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineCaptoveur From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1853 times:

I stayed there for a few nights last year. It was nice but there was a place down the street I liked better.

Signed,
AAplatnumflier


User currently offlineCaribb From Canada, joined Nov 1999, 1637 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1847 times:

MaverickM11 - sorry I didn't see your earlier post. Is it worth it? Yes I thought it was a very powerful movie. Hard to watch but yet you have to see it to believe it. It's amazing how the "West" pretty much writes off Africa. The film focused on the hotel manager, a Canadian general, Sabena employees in Brussels and a Red Cross social worker as the only people who really stood up for them in the end. Quite an amazing story and kinda shakes you to the core when you realize in the end a minimum of 500,000 people were killed and the world barely noticed.


[Edited 2005-01-17 22:48:33]

User currently offlineIakobos From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 3313 posts, RR: 34
Reply 4, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1835 times:

800,000 actually, and since then approximately 1,000 per month in the subsequent clashes in the NE of RD Congo.
About 5 times more than the Asian tsunami.

...and the world still barely notices...


User currently offlineAio86 From United States of America, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 928 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1818 times:

I saw the movie last night. I thought it was excellent. Showed enough violence and terror to get the point across but it was watered down enough for an American audience. I wish that Western leaders would watch this movie and be inspired to take action in Sudan, but somehow I don't see that happening.

User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (9 years 8 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1780 times:

Aio86,

Agreed. Just when you think you have a handle on what really went on over there... this film does a fantastic (and enteratining) job of explaining just how this unfortunate event occured and how much you DON'T know! It's one of those flicks that put you to the 'What I would I do if I was in this situation' test... unbelievable!

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineAerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7188 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (9 years 8 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1779 times:

It sounds well worth a look. I wonder if it is playing here yet?

User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29799 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (9 years 8 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1779 times:

Sorry, not going to a lot of movies, until I find another job.




OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 9, posted (9 years 8 months 3 hours ago) and read 1739 times:

I saw this movie last night. The plot was interesting. Basically, it followed the travails of a wealthy mixed Rwandan family (father Hutu, mother Tutsi) seeking refuge in the hotel where the father is a hotel manager, as the mass carnage of Tutsi's engulfs the capital Kigali. The hotel becomes a refuge for Tutsi refugees.

The movie though was also just a big sickening propaganda piece. Despite an estimated 1.2M Hutus who actively sought out and killed (mainly with machetes) over 1M Tutsi's, the Hutu's were still painted as "innocent victims" of white racism and colonialism from centuries ago. In other words, whites are somehow responsible for 1M blacks mass killing another 1M blacks.  Insane Gimme a break!

I live in the real world. This movie confirmed to me that this genocide was nothin more than black Rwandans killing black Rwandans. Black racism at its worst, in other words. No non-Rwandans were even remotely responsible for this carnage.

As bad as this genocide was, I still say let Rwanda (or any African country) solve its own damn problems. African genocides need to be stopped by Africans. Here in Canada we solve our own problems. So should Rwanda.








Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineFlyboy36y From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3039 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1680 times:

ACtually, I did not see the plame placed on whites much. Sure, it was whites who caused the schism, but those Rwandans are responsible for the genocide...

User currently offlineIakobos From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 3313 posts, RR: 34
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1676 times:

Sure, it was whites who caused the schism

For your information, the fight between Tutsi and Hutu ethnies is ancestral.
It dates back from times where there was nothing such as a white man in black Africa.
When the region was colonized (200 years ago) the scenario was already in place.
The country was a Tutsi Kingdom and they were ruling the Hutu (their slaves).

The Germans and later the Belgians did not want to change the scenario, it is after independence that they had a free rein to fight each other openly.


User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1675 times:

Well said Flyboy36y

The movie though was also just a big sickening propaganda piece. Despite an estimated 1.2M Hutus who actively sought out and killed (mainly with machetes) over 1M Tutsi's, the Hutu's were still painted as "innocent victims" of white racism and colonialism from centuries ago. In other words, whites are somehow responsible for 1M blacks mass killing another 1M blacks.   Gimme a break!

I live in the real world. This movie confirmed to me that this genocide was nothin more than black Rwandans killing black Rwandans. Black racism at its worst, in other words. No non-Rwandans were even remotely responsible for this carnage.

As bad as this genocide was, I still say let Rwanda (or any African country) solve its own damn problems. African genocides need to be stopped by Africans. Here in Canada we solve our own problems. So should Rwanda.


Yyz717, your 'real world' apparently doesn't comprise of very much 'real world' history. When WWII was over a hordes of frenchmen took revenge against fellow frenchmen who had ingratiated themselves with the Nazis. The difference in Rwanda is .. the damaging impact of the former colonial power lasted far longer than Nazi reign over France (Vichy). So what would you call the french situation? French propaganda? French racism at it's worse? Either the confines of your 'real world' are willfully restricted (or selective) when it comes to actual historical accounts or previous historical occurences have no meaning whatsoever to you.

BN747

[Edited 2005-01-24 10:36:33]


"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1671 times:

So what would you call the french situation? French propaganda? French racism at it's worse?

I'd call it a topic for another thread. This topic is about RWANDA, not the French after WW2.

The difference in Rwanda is .. the damaging impact of the former colonial power lasted far longer than Nazi reign over France (Vichy).

So says who? As mentioned above, the Hutu-Tutsi conflict existed long before the Belgians arrived. The Belgian colonial impact in Rwanda, if anything, was minimal.

Either the confines of your 'real world' are willfully restricted (or selective) when it comes to actual historical accounts or previous historical occurences have no meaning whatsoever to you.

Or, perhaps you're one of those bleeding heart liberals who can't see black racism even when a genocide happens.








Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1665 times:

So says who? As mentioned above, the Hutu-Tutsi conflict existed long before the Belgians arrived. The Belgian colonial impact in Rwanda, if anything, was minimal.

Says history if you care to check it out.. Leopold, in particular was notoriously ruthless over all belgian colonies!

What the hell does liberal/conservative have to do with historical fact? instead of wasting your time on a.net making crap up.. you may want reseach the subject or just stay stupid about it... and it seems you've made your choice.

BN747




"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineIakobos From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 3313 posts, RR: 34
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1664 times:

It was and still is tribalism, and the concept is still alive and well.
An African has two identities, tribe (the root) and country (superficial).



User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1662 times:

Says history if you care to check it out.. Leopold, in particular was notoriously ruthless over all belgian colonies!

Leopold's focus was in the Congo, not Rwanda.

instead of wasting your time on a.net making crap up.. you may want reseach the subject or just stay stupid about it...

1.2M Hutu's (African blacks) killed over 1M Tutsi's (African blacks). Blacks killing blacks. Black racism at its worst. It's factual. Can you handle black-on-black racism? Well.....it happened.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineIakobos From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 3313 posts, RR: 34
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1659 times:

Leopold, in particular was notoriously ruthless over all belgian colonies!

Congo was Leopold II 's personal property for a rather long time before it became a Belgian Colony, and the only colony at that.
Ruanda and Urundi were protectorates (under administration of) "inherited" from the German East African territories after the WW.


User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1650 times:

Blacks killing blacks. Black racism at its worst. It's factual. Can you handle black-on-black racism? Well.....it happened.

And pro-Nazi french kiling anti-nazi frenchmen is white-on-white racism, muslim serbs vs non-muslim serbs white-on-white racism? Shiite vs Sunni is it arab-on-arab racism?... NOT! The word racism coming out of your mouth is like a4 year old trying to discuss sex-- he has no clue what the hell he's talking about. At best is simply, tribal warfare. Racism is the oppression of one race over another, not within itself. Yyz717, you woudn't know 'black-on-black racism if it 'leaped up and bit you in the ass!' And apparently it did.

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineGREASESPOT From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 3084 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1650 times:

Read the book "Shake hands with the Devil", by Romeo Dallaire. He is the Canadian General who was in charge of the UN mission during that period. In typical hollywood fashion Nick Nolte played a character losely based upon him and they made it well "Hollywoodish". Dalaire does not have a lot to say about the movie other than it is very losely based upon events.

Shake Hands with the Devil is a really heavy book and takes a lot to read it. But in the end you see how the world Fucked up at that time. I wonder have we learned anything since?




GS



Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
User currently offlineCaribb From Canada, joined Nov 1999, 1637 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1646 times:

Ok guys, lighten up, I just asked if you liked the movie. I don't want to start a war here LOL...

User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 21, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1640 times:

Racism is the oppression of one race over another, not within itself.

The Hutu's and Tutsi's are different in appearance. The Hutu's are dark, short & muscular. The Tutsi's are tall, lighter skinned and slim. The Tutsi's were hacked to death on site based on their features. Roving gangs of Hutu's were killing anyone who looked Tutsi. THIS is racism. Within one race.

Yyz717, you woudn't know 'black-on-black racism if it 'leaped up and bit you in the ass!'

Just go see the movie. You'll learn alot about black-on-black racism.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineIakobos From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 3313 posts, RR: 34
Reply 22, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1632 times:

"....within one race..." yes and no, among blacks yes.
Hutus are Bantu in origin (bushmen), probably originating from West Africa, the Tutsis are Ethiopoïds originating from Abyssinia. The only historic natives are the Twa (1% of the pop.).
Both Hutu and Tutsi settled in Rwanda and Burundi somewhere between the 10th and 12th century.

When the Germans colonized the place at the end of the 19th, the situation was already as we know it, Tutsi king and their elite running the place.
When the Belgians got the mandate in 1922, they did not change anything to the local system, and this until just before independence ('59) when they realized that the transition from a country run by a minority (18%) to a system where automatically the 80% Hutus would take not only the power but also a long awaited revenge would be catastrophic.
Catholic missionaries are directly at the origin of Hutu emancipation.

There was already a massacre in '59, described (by the Pope) at that time as the biggest genocide in modern times apart from WW2.

Though, it not that simple, nor is it simply one ethny against the other.
Quite a lot of Hutu were politically moderate and thereby close to the Tutsi, too close in the eyes of extreme Hutu elements who easily manipulated the population. So, if there is undoubtedly an old recurrent ethnic factor, petty politics played their role as well, regardless of ethnic appartenance.

Hutus killed about as many Hutus as they killed Tutsis.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17494 posts, RR: 45
Reply 23, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1614 times:

" As mentioned above, the Hutu-Tutsi conflict existed long before the Belgians arrived. The Belgian colonial impact in Rwanda, if anything, was minimal."

True, but colonial powers oftne used the divisions to their ends and exacerbated the problem.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1595 times:

The post above this says it all...

Tribal warfare has been going on in Africa since the 1st two groups went their separate ways. However the clashes never reached the scale of the Hutu/Tutsi conflict, wholesale slaughter by the likes of Idi Amin aside.

... but colonial powers oftne used the divisions to their ends and exacerbated the problem.

The continent with it's century long skirmishes was functioning within reason on it's own until the colonial powers moved in and went absolutely beserk, raiding, raping, looting, kidnapping, murdering and occupying the place. When political correctness kicked it and colonialism was recognized by a more enlightened global society as the brutal, barbaric system that it was... the powers all left. Colonialism was the equivalent of a rape of a woman, you take what you need and maybe.. just maybe you leave her barely alive. The body traumatized and in complete shock. After the Colonial powers packed their ill-gotten gains, years of playing one tribe against another and simply left... just what do you think was left in it's wake? A vaccum.. it's like if the US left Iraq right now... what would happen??? The same net effect. Absolute mayhem would rule this day and every single day thereafter until the biggest bully with biggest stick (aka most guns) lays down the most bodies... then there is order.

The only positive to emerge from the colonial period -- and it kills me to say this-- is the Roman Catholic Church and other religious organizations. They at least stayed and began to formulate some type of organizational structure (albeit the most basic services) to the millions of shattered pieces left behind by the powers, giving the survivors some semblance of order and direction. As bad as 'believe in god or starve' is... a hungry belly has no conscious.


BN747




"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
25 Yyz717 : When political correctness kicked it and colonialism was recognized by a more enlightened global society as the brutal, barbaric system that it was...
26 Caribb : Ahem... Don Cheadle has just been nominated for an Academy Award as Best Actor for this film. Good for him, he was excellent. He's been so good in so
27 Iakobos : Sorry BN but your post is so far from field reality that I have to react. Agreed that greed and power were the initial factors of colonization, with a
28 BN747 : Lakobos, nice try... but that's all yak and no 'shaq'... But our forefathers were not stupid, they knew that a balance had to be found, local hands we
29 BN747 : Lakobos, Recently PBS aired an experiment where several people volunteer to live for 1 month or so people did 200 years ago.. it was called 'Frontier
30 Jaysit : THIS is racism. Within one race. Actually, the Hutus and Tutsis are different races. This business of lumping people together as one race because of s
31 BN747 : Thanks for the input J. but as Yyz717 puts it, then every anglo/slav war or saxon/slav conflict is then 'white-on-white racism' and so on. Sure there
32 Yyz717 : Yyz717 was simply attempting stealthly interject his own racist perspective as subtle as possible in an effort whitewash and absolve the far reaching
33 Iakobos : Observing that all of the Rwandan people in authority appeared to be Tutsi, the German settlers concluded that the Tutsi, who were typically tall and
34 BN747 : Just go see the movie BN747. You'll see vicious black-on-black violence and genocide. It happened in 1994, and fellow African countries, despite havin
35 Yyz717 : In the 1950s there were only 2 independent African states. The rest were virtual gigantic modern day plantations. Umm no. The "rest" were largely rura
36 Jsnww81 : I don't normally participate in Non-Av discussions, but this one is pretty compelling. I haven't seen the film yet, but I'm eager to. I'd argue that o
37 Iakobos : The name is iakobos, no offense, the capital I is confusing. You have climbed two steps at once, I have missed the sentence where I said that coloniza
38 MaverickM11 : "Zimbabwe in 2001-2002, the government even took steps to eliminate colonial infrastructure that was vital to the economy. " Which has worked really w
39 BN747 : Yyz717 is correct, however, on a few points. When the European powers pulled out of Africa in the late 1950s and 1960s, they left most of their territ
40 Iakobos : BN, Where did you find the model that helped you build up that "vision" ? Tarzan in Hollywood ? A long time before the 60's it was clear TO the coloni
41 Yyz717 : The void they created and left behind was not one condusive or fertile for cohesion, unity and self-reliance. It left a hungered people wanting the be
42 BN747 : It was not quite like this. All the European colonists trained many blacks to work in the bureaucracies and colonial governments effectively training
43 BN747 : Iakobos, just saw your post... There was no systematic segragation, society was naturally divided into classes according to education, profession or p
44 Iakobos : Simple, try to find a native who is over 55 years old and ask him. Just avoid asking present day native politicians and major businessmen, aka the one
45 BN747 : Tell me another place on earth were the vast majority of its inhabitants went from tribal life in the village (including anthropophagy) to modern day
46 Komododx : As bad as this genocide was, I still say let Rwanda (or any African country) solve its own damn problems. African genocides need to be stopped by Afri
47 BN747 : Agreed Komododx... The westerners created that mess, they broke it... you own it ... now put back the way you found it. Even if it means grass huts fo
48 BN747 : Seriously though, I just saw the movie and was deeply moved by it (but not shocked). As an African it's easy for me to blame the West for the problems
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