Aloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8358 posts, RR: 47 Posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 845 times:
Hi everyone!
Especially in recent times, I've noticed a stunning fact on a.net: I find myself, a native German speaker, correcting loads of spelling mistakes made by native English speakers. Yes, most of them are American.
I'm not talking about cultural differences ("color" or even "gotta") nor am I on about sloppiness leading to mistakes like switched letters ("toomrrow"); nobody's perfect. I'm rather concerned about a pattern of incorrect spelling. For example, many confuse the letters i and a as in "definately". Maybe you pronounce it like that, but please spell it correctly. It's a nuisance and I think it's detrimental to your credibility. Here's a short list with some avoidable mistakes, it would be much appreciated if you gave avoiding them a thought:
mixing up "they're", "their" and "there"
mixing up "its" and "it's"
mixing up "who's" and "whose"
confusing the letters i, a and o as in "definately" and "tomarrow"
shortening "would have" to "would of" instead of "would've"
In addition to that, I think it's weird that some people show support for or disagreement with people they can't even spell; I just read the name "Giulianni". Please, he's no al-Zarqawi who could also be spelt "al-Zarkawi" but a well-known American politician whose name at least his supporters should get right.
Again, I'm stumped that a non-native speaker like me is more bothered by these mistakes than native-speakers. I hope I can contribute a little bit to the quality of the language used here, and if you find any mistakes in this post, feel free to correct them - except for the topic, of course.
best regards
[Edited 2005-01-23 16:54:27]
Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
Air2gxs From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 829 times:
I agree. Spelling and grammar are my biggest pet peeves. In fact, I was attacked on this site because I asked someone (what appeared to be a native American speaker, who had lucid and correct posts in the past) to check his grammar before posting.
I can understand the non-English speakers, but those of us that speak and write English as a first language should be more careful. I tend to blame Microsoft Office and its fairly comprehensive, though annoying, grammar and spell checker. We've become too lazy.
Scorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 4934 posts, RR: 47 Reply 5, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 806 times:
I agree 100%. I tend to disagree that it's just the Americans, though. I've noticed that quite a few of our UK members are even worse than the Americans. I'm not sure whether it has to do with the level of education in these countries, or because it's just no longer 'done' to mind how you write something.
I teach English to 14 - 15 year-olds, and I dare say that their spelling is, on average, better than that of many of the native speakers here. And these kids are learning English as their third language...
Thecoz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 801 times:
Considering our president isn't too great with his first language...or any language for that matter...I don't suppose Americans value proper language and grammar. That's pathetic if you ask me.
Capital146 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2003, 2125 posts, RR: 49 Reply 7, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 788 times:
Not everyone has the same level of education and ability to communicate perfectly in written form, just as some people are not so good at maths or sports. Whilst there may on occasions be a degree of laziness with the standard of grammar, in most cases it is down to ability.
To suggest a temporary ban on offending users is way over the top. People don't make the errors on purpose, so why should they be punished? Maybe pushing more for people to use the spell check would be more effective.
On a side note, a few years ago there was a quiz show on British TV called 'Going For Gold' which had 6 contestants from different European countries who had to buzz in with the answers to questions read in English. It always amazed and somewhat embarrassed me that the the British contestant never seemed to win, even though they didn't have to understand a foreign language like the the rest of them!
Aloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8358 posts, RR: 47 Reply 8, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 779 times:
I think I should add that every time I'm not sure about the spelling of a word, I look it up. Same goes for translations, I think the internet easily qualifies as the biggest of all dictionaries. I may be biased because you need a dictionary if you want to write perfect German, but looking up words you don't know exactly doesn't seem like too much work to me.
Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
British767 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 284 posts, RR: 23 Reply 9, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 776 times:
I do think that some of the time, native speakers will make more mistakes than people learning the respective language. I feel that this is mainly down to the fact the people who are learning the language, are paying more attention to grammar and spelling, as these may be essential to get right in an exam, which they need to take, or they are simply trying to get it right first time.
For some native speakers, it probably isn't as important, because they already feel they speak the language and therefore there is no need to go into detail with the grammar and spelling (with the exception of primary school, and some secondary education). People don't normally see it like this, but that is basically what is going on.
Well, that's my opinion anyway.
I am in agreement with what Capital146 said:
To suggest a temporary ban on offending users is way over the top. People don't make the errors on purpose, so why should they be punished?
I think it is unfair to punish someone for incorrect spelling, as it may indeed be down to their ability. After all, aren't forums, such as the one here on Airliners.net, about spreading information, rather than critisising somebody's ability to spell?!
Skysurfer From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 1134 posts, RR: 14 Reply 10, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 756 times:
Hey, if some people can't spell then i guess they can't spell.....but there's also other people that purposely spell things incorrectly to shorten their time spent typing. It makes you wonder what their grades in school were though!However, it does make me shake my head with the amount of spelling mistakes made, but then again i'm not a judge and i get some words wrong from time to time. My biggest problem is that i like to shorten words down when i'm on the computer, but then if i have to handwrite a message at work i find myself making all kinds of mistakes due to my computer 'shorthand'. Give it a few years and people will no longer be able to spell correctly or write anything by hand...we'll be carrying around our pocket pc's with us! hehe
Cheers
In the dark you can't see ugly, but you can feel fat
SlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 71 Reply 11, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 752 times:
Thecoz you wrote: "Considering our president isn't too great with his first language...or any language for that matter...I don't suppose Americans value proper language and grammar. That's pathetic if you ask me."
If you are suggesting that the people who spell badly on this forum went through their schooling, grades K-12 under the administration of George W. Bush you overlook one thing - kids who could complete 13 years of school in just over 4 years ought to be pretty damn smart.
If you are not suggesting that, then your utterly baseless blaming of their spelling on the current President would suggest that perhaps critical thinking is lagging behind even spelling in our school system.
Hint: It is not ALL about partisan politics all the time.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
NKP S2 From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1714 posts, RR: 6 Reply 13, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 733 times:
S&C:
If you are suggesting that the people who spell badly on this forum went through their schooling, grades K-12 under the administration of George W. Bush you overlook one thing - kids who could complete 13 years of school in just over 4 years ought to be pretty damn smart.
If you are not suggesting that, then your utterly baseless blaming of their spelling on the current President would suggest that perhaps critical thinking is lagging behind even spelling in our school system.
Hint: It is not ALL about partisan politics all the time
Bingo. 100 thwacks of a ruler over the knuckles to those who make this political. ( and a bit of salt for good measure )
Back to the subject at hand though:
Since being online ( geginning in '99 ) I've found myself both annoyed and dismayed at bad spelling, and have become somewhat of a stickler; Quite ironic, given that spelling and grammar were my absolute least favorite subject K-12.
I've also noticed how many try to mitigate their poor spelling by blaming it in typing ability, or lack thereof. Sorry, but "breaks" for "brakes", "rummer" for "rumor", "dribble" for "drivel" are NOT typos. Let's not forget the #1 ranking offender, "loose" for "lose". I see those, and the poster, in my vision, is some knuckle dragging, mouth breather with a room temperature IQ.
Ready4Pushback From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2004, 364 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 724 times:
Hmm, I think this is a troubling subject (responding to the original post), and I think that you are too harsh. I have lived in a number of countries in my life and the one thing that I have come to understand is that, quite often, people who are learning a second language are sometimes better at the grammar and spelling than their first language (and therefore a German speaking English can probably spot these mistakes better than an American or Briton). Maybe it is because they didn't necessarily learn their first language in a school, but picked it up. In fact I went to university with a German, and his English was better than my [strong geordie accent] English!
I give you an example. I have seen quite a few people (mostly Americans, though I'm not attacking them) use the word "gotten". Now, I have never used this word before, but I have seen a number of people being corrected, and told that there is no such word, "gotten" (as in, "having gotten home, ..."). However, it seems to me that this is the type of word that can be manufactured given the rules of the language. I used the word "tret" the other day instead of "treated". To me, the word "tret" (to be "treated" in some fashion - past tense) sounds natural, but it's not I suppose.
What is more troubling, I think, is that young people nowadays completely disregard whole words and use another word that sounds similar. I heard a boy use the word "brought" instead of "bought" the other day. I asked him about it and apparently it's commonplace. This is terrible!
BTW, my personal hate, and it REALLY bugs me is the incorrect usage of "there", "their" and "they're".
Gary.
ps. I have just spell-checked this post and the word "gotten" was not found to be incorrect. Perhaps it is an accepted American addition to the language!?
707cmf From France, joined Mar 2002, 4885 posts, RR: 32 Reply 17, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 702 times:
I should of known that the aircrafts were prolly parked in the hangers.
Mind you, this A380 seems alot bigger then the A300. Oh, by the way, are you an athiest ? That's wierd...
Sorry, I cannot remember all of my grammatical ans spelling pet peeves (am still a bit sick right now...) but I guess you got the story right. Right ?
MD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8418 posts, RR: 13 Reply 18, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 698 times:
It's because the federal and state governments control the state schooling and steal money from every family, regardless of whether they have children or not, to pay for the massive jobs program.
If there were more private schools and more homeschooling, this shameful trend would be reversed.
State schoo*coughindoctrination*ling should be ended. Immediately.
Aloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8358 posts, RR: 47 Reply 19, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 689 times:
"State schoo*coughindoctrination*ling should be ended. Immediately."
I understand why you have a problem with state schooling, but care to enlighten me how e.g. a single mother with no high school degree working two jobs to feed her three children would be able to teach them what it takes to enter college? I don't think there's a viable solution to this besides state schooling.
Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
Sk902hvy From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 64 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 666 times:
Ready4Pushback:
“Gotten” is indeed a real word. It is the past participle form of the verb “to get” in American English. Can any Canadians confirm if it is accepted/used in Canada today?
Both got and gotten are standard past participles of get. Of the two gotten is older, but both date from the Middle English period. By the seventeenth century the forms were about equally common.
American and British English have a common root back in the days of the Pilgrim Fathers. At the time, American was very much the same as that spoken back in Britain, but from that point on the two languages started to diverge. This has led to a accusations of some words and grammar being Americanisms, when in fact they're far from it - they are true to their origins, and it is British English which has been changed, sometimes under foreign influence.
…
Of course, some of these words have long been considered unacceptable in British English. Gotten is a good example. Americans continue to use it (although it isn't always considered good grammar), but it has long been out of use on the other side of the Atlantic. Yet the gotten and getten are both words from early British English. Shakespeare uses the word, as does Henry Fielding, Oscar Wilde and Walter Scott, and it is retained in the expression ill-gotten.
So Brits started using it first and Americans just continued the trend.
Regards,
sk902hvy
P.S. -- Note that the error in the second italicized paragraph is as it appears in the original.
AsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 659 times:
My peeve in stores and shops are people who write: .50¢ instead of $.50 or 50¢ . Every now and then I grab ten .50¢ candy bars, walk up to the cashier, toss down a nickel, and walk out. The cops can't arrest me because I'm paying the posted price.
MD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13343 posts, RR: 64 Reply 24, posted (8 years 4 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 635 times:
It is hangar, not hanger!
Jan
25 Sovietjet: Lol, I'm surprised someone hasn't written "nucular" instead of nuclear yet. Considering how Bush says it like that all the time....
26 MD-90: I understand why you have a problem with state schooling, but care to enlighten me how e.g. a single mother with no high school degree working two job
27 StowAway: Considering our president isn't too great with his first language...or any language for that matter...I don't suppose Americans value proper language
28 Ready4Pushback: Sk902hvy: Very true - I stand corrected. I did, however read that the word was adopted by the Americans after the British/Amercan split, but the evide
29 Scorpio: But still, why should other people pay for a woman's kids whose education she can't afford? Because the KIDS can't help it that their parents are poor
30 Oly720man: It is the PC "taking part that counts" attitude that pervades society that's to blame. Don't do it right, just do it however you can. People just don'
31 QANTASFOREVER: MD-90 - What nonsense. What sweeping statements. You seriously believe that a person can only truly be well educated at a private school? I don't beli
32 Lurch: Public School as in a paying Establishment I never went to one of those what's even more Interesting none of my fellow UK Spotters/Photographers I kno
33 Ready4Pushback: Clearly, the spell checker doesn't pick up on lack of commas and full stops (periods)!
34 Jaspike: Ready4Pushback: and random capital letters. That's another thing that gets on my nerves Tom
35 Saxdiva: I've been avoiding this thread because I knew that reading it put me at risk of going on a full-blown rant, which is something I don't have time for a
36 GKirk: Aye, thon text message type spellings r a wee bit annoying. NE1 else think so?
37 Saxdiva: Kirk, you're giving me hives. Stop it!
38 Logan22L: Saxdiva: Actually, you restrained yourself rather well, I thought. Spot on. Also, the computer, for all its advantages, has seriously depersonalized u
39 Lucky727: It's true that native anglophones make more mistakes...perhaps because they learned English aurally as children, and a lack of 'enforced literacy' in
40 MD-90: Saxdiva, TV plays a huge role as well. It literally does rot your mind. And I believe that a lot of people don't read very much because they can't rea
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