Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
White House Turns Tables On Former American POWs  
User currently offlineMattCLE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 994 times:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...%2Cprint.story?coll=la-home-nation

Very interesting! I wonder how this will play out?  Confused

-Matt

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSv7887 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1025 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 978 times:

Hi All,
SO much for Bush being Pro Military..I can't believe people buy into all the rhetoric he spews...He's cut benefits for disabled vets and plans on gutting the Air Force and Navy while pissing away money on a Missile Defense System that can't even get an Intercepter missile off the ground..Pathetic..I hope the Military can recover from all of the abuse..

SV


User currently offlineFtrguy From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 358 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 943 times:

A Billion dollars for these people? Come on. Maybe a more reasonable amount would be considered, but this is like $58 Million a piece. These guys were only in enemy hands for something like 60 days. What about the Vietnam POW's who were in captivity for 7 years? What about all the American POW's that were in Japan during WWII. What do they get? I am on active duty and I accept the fact that with my job I have the potential to be captured and most likely tortured by today's enemies. I have had training on how to deal with it and I know it can and will be a horrible and painful experience. If anything, I expect my own government to compensate me for not doing enough to get me out and letting me get captured in the first place.

I hope this lawsuit was filed to make a symbolic statement against Saddam's regime. If these people thought they were actually going to collect they are out of their mind. I don't think the NEW Iraqi government should be held responsible for the decisions of a ruthless dictator. And yes, I do agree with the Bush administration that the money could be better spent. I think a $1 Billion would be better spent helping hundreds of thousands of people than making 17 people rich.


User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11446 posts, RR: 76
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 939 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

One billion dollars in personal war reparations against a regime that no longer exists. THe next thing you'll see is survivors of WWII, Korea and VIetnam suing those governments for reparations, as well as every other conflict we've had POWs taken. Will that be justified since those wartime governments are gone, and the current governments are allies?

This sucks for those pilots, but this is a money grab for the frozen Iraqi funds, and with the liberation of the Iraqis I think they ought to seek compensation within the new Iraqi court system. For us to demand reparations from the new government would be politically damaging to us, as well as unjust.

The pilots endured physical abuse and imprisonment, true. I have very deep feelings about that, but we all took the risks voluntarily and capture was one of those risks. What they're doing now is beyond military reparations, it goes to personal wealth building for them and their lawyers.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 922 times:

Sorry, DL021, but I have a problem when Bush is trying to protect his pet project in Iraq over the asiprations of Americans who were tortured in that country. I think that's reprehensible. Seems he's taking his fight to limit lawsuits beyond American borders.

Bush, in many ways, seems to care more about Iraq these days than the folks back at home. He's now bordering on the obsessive with Iraq, and I don't think many Americans will be symathetic to Bush on this one.


User currently offlineSlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 68
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 912 times:

One might argue against taking money away from a blameless current regime in Iraq to compensate these people. There is some sense to that, but what happened to the vast amounts of assets siezed from Saddam Hussein? Who pocketed that money? Saddam was Iraq. Iraq was Saddam. He, or his estate should be accountable.



Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11446 posts, RR: 76
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 882 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Falcon, First let me say that since 1986 I've had the bracelet for SSG Charles Huston, an SF NCO who disappeared in Laos on an operation in 1969. I hold the sacrifices of our servicemen and women, especially the ones who have given their full measure or been captured and endured captivity. I've known some of these folks and can refer anyone interested to the appropriate websites for information and more for charities benefitting family members and survivors. Here's one for POWs.
http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/

I'm pretty torn over this issue, but I think that the point of the current regime needing the money is the critical one here. Our veterans who were held in captivity, and we aren't talking about all of them, only the 17 in this group, were compensated by our government in the same way all others have been. It is never enough, and we will always owe these people for what they endured on our behalf, but the situation in Iraq is now different and we aren't talking about Saddams money anymore.

It is Iraqs money, not the US's and not Saddams. The money we froze here won't be used to finance US military operations, it'll be released to Iraq for their uses.

I like Slams idea, except that Saddam stole everything he had from Iraq or the UN. If that money is recovered it should go back to its rightful place. There really isn't a good answer to this.

The President is not holding up veterans for budgetary reasons. This lawsuit will be discouraged as long as it is in murky legal waters and can harm progress.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 879 times:

I'm pretty torn over this issue, but I think that the point of the current regime needing the money is the critical one here.

Screw them having the money! WE caused the current situation in Iraq, so let Bush make up the $1 billion. After all, he's only thrown about $200 billion at Iraq, I think they can afford the 1 billion. That's bullocks, my friend. I don't give a shit about this government next to Americans. It's not even a choice to me.


User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11446 posts, RR: 76
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 878 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

This issue isn't about whether our former POW's deserve the money, its about who will pay it. If you think we ought to raise a special POW tax to benefit former POW's and their families as well as the families of MIA's (not the ambulance chasers who are pushing this forward)....then I'm all for it.

Lets draft a letter and I'll be happy to put lets see, 130 million or so taxpayers in the US, and they want a billion dollars so that means we all agree to a one-time additional tax collection of say $7.60 per taxpayer....I'm all for it, no BS about it. Hell, lets make it real money and include every former POW and the living survivors of dead POWs and MIAs and make it $100 per taxpayer.

I'll even draft the letter, and my $100 is sitting in the wallet as we speak. I was going to blow it on blackjack in Vegas next week for our anniversary, but this is better. I donated to veterans charities last year, and will do it again this year, but this is something special. I agree with Falcon, we owe it to all the former POW's and MIAs and their families. Lets do it.

Lets just avoid an international legal dispute about the Iraqi money that will do no one any good other than the lawyers. This is not about divisive politics, and the issue deserves more than that.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29705 posts, RR: 59
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 871 times:

Traditionally US POW's I don't belive have been able to sue former captors.

I think there where some guys from Hanoi Hilton and the Japanese camps that got told no.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineJalto27R From United States of America, joined May 2004, 857 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 863 times:

Falcon,

I can understand giving money, but millions a piece? That's ridiculous. They don't need that much money..for any reason. I respect their sacrifices, and they deserve recompense, but that much money is good for nothing.


User currently offline11Bravo From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1717 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 859 times:

I must say that I find the Bush administration’s proclivity of meddling with the Judiciary very troublesome. If the legal standing of the plaintiffs or the scope of the civil finding are at question, that is a matter for the courts to decide, not the Executive.

This is just the latest example, in my opinion, of this administration’s disregard for Due Process and the Separation of Powers. I seems more than a bit hypocritical to me for the United States to so strongly advocate the Rule of Law and democracy abroad, while the current administration increasingly fails to recognize those same concepts.




WhaleJets Rule!
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29705 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 856 times:

Now that I think about it, it might have been some US POW's in Germany that where sent to work for BASF and other german companies.

But they where denied the right to sue to.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 852 times:

I don't think these airmen deserve a dime from Iraq. From the old regime or the new regime. I realize this stand will make me unpopular - even with folks with whom I usually agree.

They volunteered to go in harms way, and understood the myriad risks in doing so. Part of that risk involved the possibility of torture at the hands of their enemies should they become captured.

While I am in no way attempting to lessen the impact of that torture, I understood when I deployed - during the same war - that if I became a POW I stood a good chance of not surviving. Not because I wasn't strong in mind and body but because I would be tortured or killed trying to escape.

What do we do now? Do we let all of the prisoners from WW2 sue the Japanese and German governments for reparations if they were tortured at the hands of their captures? Do we let the POWs from Korea sue the North Koreans (as if that would do any damn good). Do we go back to Vietnam and tell the new government we want countless billions of dollars for folks the likes of John McCain who endured years of torture at the Hanoi Hilton? I think not. This issue is no different.

Simply put, "Hazards of the Occupation". Sorry ladies and gents. Thats the bottom line.

Quoting DL021 (reply 6):
Our veterans who were held in captivity, and we aren't talking about all of them, only the 17 in this group, were compensated by our government in the same way all others have been. It is never enough, and we will always owe these people for what they endured on our behalf,


As for Dubya and his attempted meddling, well, the only meddling I'm really currently pretty disturbed about is his new budget and the serious reduction in Veterans benefits therein. But this country is good at that - and consistent, be it republican or democrat in the White House, the end result - the veteran gets fucked by our own government, period, end.

DL021, I got a $100 to match yours, no sweat.


[Edited 2005-02-17 20:12:43]

User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11446 posts, RR: 76
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 812 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

$200 up...any more givers? Once we get $1,000 pledged I'll get my lawyer to set up an account and a non-profit so we can start a fund.

ANC....I wouldn't change my mind on this, as I thought hard about it, but just the same I'm glad some other vets I've spoken with today have felt the same way I have on this. One didn't, he said he'd want the money, and screw Iraq, but the rest were a little taken aback by this. It's tough to talk about, though. I remember meeting LTC Rowe when I graduated from SERE school and then I read his book. How do you tell a guy who endured all that he can't seek compensation from his enemy when they violate international law.

Of course the answer is, you go through the process and don't let up.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 803 times:

Veterans get shortsheeted in this country plenty . . . usually by our own government. Like I said earlier - it matters not whether a democrat or a republican is sitting in the White House.

One factor that causes this . . . well, most of the Senate and House have never served in uniform these days. They are career politicians. Perhaps on one of the Senate or House field trips to a combat zone the next time they can live like the common GI for a week or so. Let them see what it's really like. Doubt that will happen, but hey, it's a thought.

I'm going to be very interested to see what happens with this current influx of wounded/disabled veterans from this current conflict. Just how much time will the military spend repairing the damage. And for those that are permanently disabled, I wonder how good their health care will be?

As I managed to retire without any major disabilities save bad knees, lousy hearing and a screwed up elbow, I consider myself lucky. I often wonder what it would be like had things been different . . .would my care be adequate? Could I get a decent job? Would that job be something besides a "Welcome to Wally World" gig? And I wonder also what will happen when I really de need care in the future? Again, will it be adequate?

Our government keeps hacking away at military retirement and veterans benefits - but they sure don't mind sending us away for a year or so at a crack. Unexcusable.

I've had this conversation with two of the three federal legislators in Alaska. The Hon. Ted Stevens is a tremendous advocate for veterans and consistently backs veterans benefits. Sen Lisa Murkowski wouldn't know a veteran if she got run over by a whole squad of them (she's prety much useless on all other accoutns as well). Rep Don Young never answered my mail. Typical of our senate and house these days.

Enough of my rant.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
False Alarm Puts White House On Alert posted Wed Apr 27 2005 19:36:57 by Aa777jr
The Race For The White House Has Begun! posted Tue Oct 31 2006 00:42:15 by Falcon84
Blair On Anti-American Feelings In EU Politics posted Thu Sep 14 2006 05:18:49 by 787
White House Welcomes Another Brutal Dictator posted Mon Jul 17 2006 05:19:24 by Tbar220
W Twins @ White House Correspondent's Dinner posted Tue May 2 2006 07:46:01 by BaylorAirBear
Chinese Pres Arrives To Protests At White House posted Thu Apr 20 2006 05:00:34 by RJpieces
White House Chief Of Staff Resigns posted Tue Mar 28 2006 15:30:38 by Itsjustme
Moussaoui: White House Was My 9/11 Target posted Mon Mar 27 2006 23:20:47 by Bushpilot
House Passes Cuts On Health For Poor & Elderly posted Thu Feb 2 2006 07:21:06 by Centrair
Gay Families At White HOuse Easter Egg Hunt? posted Fri Jan 20 2006 16:17:54 by Greasespot