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The Ironic Events Of Iraq Yesterday  
User currently offlinePlanespotterx From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3653 times:

Anyone else find it "ironic" that the fact a woman can be held hostage by Iraqi "terrorists" armed with guns and whatever else they have, to be held there for so long with the US doing nothing.
In the end the Italian army decide to do something, go in and rescue her, drive her to "safety" only to be fired upon by US trigger-happy troops.
Sort of "funny" in a way, the fact she can be held by terrorists and be relatively unharmed and yet the people who should be out there who claim there still there to "protect" people like her open-fire on a armed escort.
Is it me or are the yanks just plain-dumb.

121 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7957 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3630 times:

They didn't "go in and rescued her". Her release is the result of negotiations between the terrorists and the Italian government. It's likely ransom was paid.

How do you know the Americans were "trigger-happy". Right for now, both sides say completely diffierent things. The Italians say they had easily passed all security posts before, Americans and Italians were well informed and that they didn't even have time to tell the "trigger-happy" soldiers who they are.
The Americans say they warned them by shooting in the air and what not but the driver didn't react.

It seems the Italians are right, as one Italian politican could listen to what happened live on his phone. But it's still too early to draw any conclusions.

[Edited 2005-03-05 18:10:41]


I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineSATL382G From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3622 times:

...or perhaps the Italians simply failed to coordinate their rescue operation with the appropriate agencies....

User currently offline11Bravo From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1718 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3621 times:

Quoting Planespotterx (reply 0):
Is it me or are the yanks just plain-dumb.


That's definitely just you. The Italian Army rescued her? Where in the world did you get that bit of rubbish? The car she was in approached a check point at a high rate of speed and refused to stop, so the vehicle was engaged by the soldiers. That isn't being trigger happy. That's what they're supposed to do in that situation. You may want to go read a few news stories about this incident before you post more mindless stupidity.



WhaleJets Rule!
User currently offlineSebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3681 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3601 times:

Quoting SATL382G (reply 2):
...or perhaps the Italians simply failed to coordinate their rescue operation with the appropriate agencies....



The secret services NEVER communicate between one another in these situtation. The line is "don't trust anyone".
And it seems the Amercians were very fast to shoot ... Time will tell.


Quoting 11Bravo (reply 3):
The car she was in approached a check point at a high rate of speed and refused to stop, so the vehicle was engaged by the soldiers.


Well, the hostage explained that this version (the American one) was wrong. The car was running slowly, as the Italians know perfectly what to do at the checkpoint, at least that's what was reported.


User currently offlinePlanespotterx From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3595 times:

That's definitely just you. The Italian Army rescued her? Where in the world did you get that bit of rubbish? The car she was in approached a check point at a high rate of speed and refused to stop, so the vehicle was engaged by the soldiers. That isn't being trigger happy. That's what they're supposed to do in that situation. You may want to go read a few news stories about this incident before you post more mindless stupidity.

Ok so lets say what had that car been full of civilians wanting hospital attention, or a pregnant mother giving birth.
The US wonder why theres so much collateral-damage, if they go firing at the first thing they see then of course theres going to be injuries.
The soldier (s) who open-fired on a unidentified target need re-educating military style on the types of threats in that situation, you cant just go firing on a target you "think" is hostile, thats why the RAF Tornado was downed in the first days of the war, the US didnt know the fighter was British but shot at it anyway, just like the Italian woman.


User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3585 times:

Planespotterx, so if a car is speeding through a checkpoint, you expect the soldiers to flag it down first for check if it a carbomber or a woman in labor first? Are you kidding?

The US wonder why theres so much collateral-damage

No not really. Only you and a few others seem to have this unrealistic expectation of a sterile war.



"Shaddap you!"
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3587 times:

Quoting Planespotterx (reply 0):
Is it me or are the yanks just plain-dumb.


Spotters, I can't say exactly what's on my mind - I'd rather not get banned from here. Your statement is elementary and juvenile - which is just about normal for you.

Quoting Planespotterx (reply 0):
In the end the Italian army decide to do something, go in and rescue her, drive her to "safety" only to be fired upon by US trigger-happy troops.


A) She wasn't rescued - she was released.

B) The American's weren't trigger happy - as far as I can tell, and if you'd bothered to read and listen to the news you'd know this too - the Italians made no coordination with the US Forces guarding the airport, failed to stop as ordered, and attempted to run a road block. I'd have fired their asses up too.

Typical Planspotterx bullshit ramblings . . . useless, tiring, ignorant.


User currently offlineSolarix From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3580 times:

Is it me or are the yanks just plain-dumb.

No. The only person who was "plain dumb" is the driver of the car for not stopping at the military checkpoint.

It's very unfortunate that this happened but what did they expect? Iraq is filled with scum blowing up cars and civilians. The security personnel thought this was another daily car bomb and took action to protect themselves. Better to be safe than sorry.


User currently offlinePlanespotterx From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3601 times:

LOL I never claimed to be the commander of the US forces, this site is a site of free-speech and regardless of what YOU may think I too am entitled to this speech.
Im only stating the obvious, imagine had this happened anywhere else, if it was the British forces there'd be uproar, but just cos its the US army it somehow makes it "acceptable" that theres going to be collateral damage.


User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3571 times:

This site is not free speech. this post could get deleted. Its a private forum. Who says your not entitled to your opinion? Are you begrudging us our opinion of you? don't cry. If you state absurd things, expect to be challenged. and British forces aren't immune to collateral damage. No one is. Again, war is not sterile (sorry to burst your bubble). Maybe you should focus your outrage on insurgents intentionally targeting Iraqi civilians. In fact, why aren't you? There are much more senseless deaths from that. Or is it not as fun?


"Shaddap you!"
User currently offlineSolarix From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3559 times:

JetService, It's because they are moslem and would be accused of being a racist if he were to condemn them.

So as it goes...

Americans accidently killing Moselms = EXTREME OUTRAGE
Terrorists intentionally killing Americans = NO BIG DEAL ... WE DON'T NEED TO SAY A WORD
PS: DEATH TO AMERICA! DEATH TO ISRAEL!

Signed,
The Arab Media


User currently offlinePlanespotterx From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3559 times:

lol JetService and anyone else whos American, your all so full of yourselves your even starting to believe you rule the world, no wonder Iraq is as Fucked-up as it is.
Are the Iraqi "terrorists" actually terrorists or freedom-fighters

I'll let you lot decide that.


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3556 times:

Quoting Planespotterx (reply 9):
LOL I never claimed to be the commander of the US forces, this site is a site of free-speech and regardless of what YOU may think I too am entitled to this speech.


It sure is - free speech site - that's why you're allowed to spew that ridiculous drivel from your ignorant ass. And exactly why I'm responding - very delicately for me actually - at the stupidity and ignorance of your post.

Quoting Planespotterx (reply 9):
Im only stating the obvious, imagine had this happened anywhere else, if it was the British forces there'd be uproar, but just cos its the US army it somehow makes it "acceptable"


This unfortunate incident is neither common nor acceptable - not at all. It would be just as tragic had it been UK forces. (By the way, they've never had any problems like this have they).

I'm not going to debate this with you further - it's unfortunate. The US was not trigger happy. The Italians did not rescue anyone. When you grow up, get back on A-Net and lets see if you learned anything It's a waste of time to talk to you.  talktothehand 

[Edited 2005-03-05 18:49:39]

User currently offlineSolarix From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3552 times:

Quoting Planespotterx (reply 12):
Are the Iraqi "terrorists" actually terrorists or freedom-fighters


What freedom fighters? Oh... you mean the ones that kill innocent people and give their own people a bloodbath from homicide car bombings?


Quoting Planespotterx (reply 12):
I'll let you lot decide that.


It wasn't a hard decision.


User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3547 times:

Oh... you mean the ones that kill innocent people

The US have killed more Iraqis than Iraqi insurgent forces have.


User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3545 times:

Are the Iraqi "terrorists" actually terrorists or freedom-fighters

I'll let you lot decide that.


I already made my decision. It is based on the nationalities of the insurgents (Syrian, Sudanese, Moroccan, etc) and the nationalities of the victims (Iraqis). Couple that with the protests of the terrorism by the Iraqi population (you HAVE been watching the news, correct?). Its a no-brainer. These are far from freedom fighters. These are people trying to take Iraq away from the Iraqi people and enforce an radical Islamic regime. What's your take?

OK, now back to your original concern.

So tell me your solution, smart guy.
Should soldiers verify ID before they engage an unidentified vehicle coming at them? How do they do that before the car gets within the blast radius of a carbomb? I'm really dying to here the solution to that one.

Also, do you think if British soldiers were manning a checkpoint, would they've blown the vehicle away too? From my understanding the British military is quite formidable, so I'm guessing the answer is yes.

All that's left is the soldiers being notified of friendlies coming through. But that the responsibility of the occupants and that doesn't fit into your agenda to well.



"Shaddap you!"
User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3539 times:

The US have killed more Iraqis than Iraqi insurgent forces have.

Good! That's because they're tactically ineffective. Would you feel better if they kill more?



"Shaddap you!"
User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3534 times:

Quoting Solarix (reply 11):
Signed,
The Arab Media


For such an intelligent generalisation, you should be praised:  praise 


User currently offlineSolarix From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3525 times:

The US have killed more Iraqis than Iraqi insurgent forces have.
That fact you even call them "insurgent forces" is disgusting. They are savage satanic animals who deserve to meet that 500 pound bomb dropped by an F-16.

For such an intelligent generalisation, you should be praised
Instead of posting little smiley faces why don't you convince me to change my opinion then?

The Arab World goes apeshit when a US marine puts womens panties over the head of a prisoner but they don't make a peep when an Arab slaughters US civilians with a machete.


User currently offlinePetertenthije From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 3369 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3515 times:

Quoting JetService (reply 17):
The US have killed more Iraqis than Iraqi insurgent forces have.

Good! That's because they're tactically ineffective. Would you feel better if they kill more?


The question is, do the terrorists kill fewer people becuase they are tactically ineffective, or does the US kill more Iraqis because some of their troops are tactically incompetent.

Either case, your remark is just disgusting.



Attamottamotta!
User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3503 times:

Either case, your remark is just disgusting.

What's dsigusting about being glad the insurgent scumbags are not able to kill a lot of people? Nothing. That's a GOOD thing.



"Shaddap you!"
User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3499 times:

Quoting Solarix (reply 19):
Instead of posting little smiley faces why don't you convince me to change my opinion then?


I don't think there is a chance people like you can be convinced of anything but the things you want to see. I guess you haven't yet thought about the meaning of an expression like "The Arab Media" - using such generalisations and stereotypes is the same bull as the often heard "The Americans".  ill 


Quoting Solarix (reply 19):
The Arab World goes apeshit when a US marine puts womens panties over the head of a prisoner but they don't make a peep when an Arab slaughters US civilians with a machete.


First of all, I doubt that the whole "Arab World" would ignore a civilian being killed. You guys see some cheering insane Arabs and burning American flags on Fox TV and automatically you point the finger at millions of people.  thumbsdown 

And the difference is, American soldiers are in Iraq to fight for democracy, they should be an example for the values your country is preaching. They have to stick to the rules. Well, terrorists are terrorists, people who do not have values and do not care about anything. Actions of terrorists should not be taken as an excuse to cover own misbehaviour.


Regards
Udo


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14026 posts, RR: 62
Reply 23, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3492 times:

Planespotterix,

You run a roadblock in Northern Ireland, you´ll get yourself shot up by the British Army. I´ve got it from a friend who served in the British Army in Northern Ireland that they usually have two teams with GPMGs hidden in the bushes about 200 to 500 yards from each end of the road block. Anybody crashing through a road block will find himself under fire from a 7.62 Nato machine gun. This was experienced by a few teenagers who were driving a stolen car and thought they could get away with it.
If you are in a country with terrorists (I can say the same about Spain or Germany back in the mid 70s) crashing a road block is at your own risk.

Now concerning the situation in Iraq, IMO at the moment there is a three sided war. On one hand you´ve got the Americans and their allies, plus the elected government (BTW, the party that won was not the American choice), the old Baathists, mostly secular Sunnis, who want to get back into their old positions because they suddenly find themselves in a minority in a place they ruled for decades, and last, Al-Qaeda, radical fundamentalist Wahabite Sunnis, who try to install a Taliban like rule, to make Iraq what Afghanistan was before 9/11.

I think most suicide attacks are done by Al-Qaeda supporters, since the socialist influenced Baathists rather want to stay alive to harvest after their victory.

Add to this private armies and militias loyal to regional political and religious leaders, each craving for absolute rule and you´ve got the mix.

Jan

[Edited 2005-03-05 19:49:41]

User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3491 times:

And the difference is, American soldiers are in Iraq to fight for democracy, they should be an example for the values your country is preaching. They have to stick to the rules.

What rule are you referring to? Don't engage a carbomber until you check his ID?

Well, terrorists are terrorists, people who do not have values and do not care about anything. Actions of terrorists should not be taken as an excuse to cover own misbehaviour.

Nor should their behavior be ignored. But again, denoucing the insurgent murderous way goes against the underlying agenda here. Oh well.



"Shaddap you!"
25 QR332 : That is the biggest load of shit I have ever read. Terrorists killing Americans is not made into a big deal? You have completley reversed things: Ira
26 Petertenthije : Sorry, I should have been more clear on that I suppose. I find it rather disgusting that the US kills more Iraqis and that you do not seem to mind.
27 Post contains images Udo : I was referring to the torture against prisoners. I did NOT question actions against car bombers or whatever. Did I suggest terrorists' actions are i
28 L410Turbolet : US ambassador to Italy talking about that killed Italian secret service guy being a "hero"...if it wasn't for his stupid trigger-happy compatriots who
29 ANCFlyer : SOURCE! Prove your statement. You're exactly right Udo. And the US and Allied world should go apeshit over this as well. Solarix, if you think this i
30 Banco : To be honest, it would quite probably not be. It's a delicate thing to say, because we really don't know the full truth of this case, and I really do
31 Post contains images Solarix : That is the biggest load of shit I have ever read. Good. I’m glad you feel that way. I have my opinions and you have your own. I can respect that. S
32 QR332 : Prove my statement? I'll give you two examples I can remember off the top of my head: the first is the attack on the Al Jazeera building by US forces
33 Commander_rabb : Good! Nothing like a good body count to prove the results of killing bad Haji's. Are you having a bad century? Or are you just a little pissy today?
34 Post contains images Gkirk : SSSHHHHHHH, you're not allowed to have your own point of view You must share George Dubya Bush's and Republicans or you are considered the enemy
35 174thfwff : Wrong. As an official of this website, I need to make things clear. It is a common misconception that you should be entitled to free speech on the Ai
36 Gary2880 : OK couple of things, first I would not have done what the Italians did, driving away from my captors maybe a relief and you want to do it as quickly a
37 Post contains images Newark777 : I guess this is the only argument that you have anymore. Just complain that you are being portrayed as the enemy. Grow up and come up with some real
38 British767 : It was an Italian woman, not an American. Why should the US sort out Italy's problems?
39 Post contains images Gkirk : I take it you never noticed my smilies Although perhaps I should have put in the sarcasm smilie also
40 Newark777 : Do you know how irrational and ignorant you sound? I would have liked to see what you would have done if you were those soldiers in that situation. S
41 Gary2880 : yes as usual everyones ignorant appart from you arnt they newark if you wish to scroll back up and find out how the british handle checkpoints you`ll
42 Newark777 : Shooting at civilians = BAD Shooting at cars that approach their checkpoint without stopping = GOOD The fact is, US troops can't ID cars until they s
43 Gary2880 : Well I would rather see the soldiers die that want to be there and lay their life on the line than civilians having to die to protect themselves. e.g.
44 Newark777 : Want to be there? Having to die to protect themselves? You are twisted words around again to prove your point. This is a case of people breaking the
45 N5176Y : Well, Sir, we don't have a very high opinion of you either.
46 Gary2880 : i thought you won the war? yes those dumb people running for freedom, to saftey, not surprised the italians didnt tell america they were trying to fr
47 Solarix : If we yanks are so dumb why are we the worlds only super power? If we Americans are so dumb why the hell are you using American products every day of
48 Gary2880 : fair enough, like an anthill then. few smart ones then a couple of hundred thousand drones doing what there told... your either with us or against us
49 Solarix : Somebody tried a couple times but we "dumb yanks" kicked their arse in return. If the US were to disappear as a super power, who would you like to se
50 SATL382G : Well if that's the case the U.S. troops at the checkpoint did exactly what they were supposed to when a car speeds towards the checkpoint and refuses
51 ANCFlyer : Probably true - Saddam would still be gassing Kurds, his two gangster children would be raping women in their palaces, people would still be tortured
52 Post contains links Schoenorama : That's a lousy excuse. The fact of the matter is that Iraq, as Bush has told us repeatedly, no longer is a war-zone where civilians have to be very c
53 Sv7887 : Oh boy, the Armchair Military Commanders are out in force..Okay, you're a US Army soldier who is attacked daily by carbombs, insurgents dressed as CIV
54 Newark777 : There is a very big difference between the two scenarios. Attacking the speeding car is an act of defense, and you can't give the passengers the bene
55 MD11Engineer : Actually , if I were a soldier at a road block in a country where car bombs driven by suicidical killers are the norm, I would also shoot first., if I
56 Schoenorama : You seem to be unaware of the fact that cars always speed at roads. You are taking for granted that the persons in the car knew they were approaching
57 Commander_rabb : So you are an expert? Where you there? Have you even set foot in Iraq? Please, leave out the mindless speculation. And I do mean mindless. You don't
58 MD11Engineer : Schoenorama, Can I remind you that back in the 1980s I´ve been searched at gun point by Spanish police officers in both Barcelona and the Basque coun
59 ANCFlyer : Look, did you READ the entire report? Did you WATCH anything on the news? Short answer: NO. Let me sum this up for you in plain, non-vulcan english.
60 Post contains images MartinairYYZ : Is it me or are the yanks just plain-dumb. Ofcourse they're just plain, dumb, and more! They first went into Iraq, reelected bush, and if you go to US
61 Commander_rabb : MartinairYYZ I was going to respond to your rant but I looked at your profile and saw your age, 13-15. Enough said.
62 Post contains images ANCFlyer : Oh, goooood, more inane bullshit from the little Teenager in Bulgaria . . . . didn't have the freedom to say this kind of shit 10 years ago - but wat
63 Commander_rabb : He's in Canada, which makes it worse! Teenagers who don't know Jack about the world. LOL
64 Post contains images Newark777 : Hey, don't put me together with this fool. At least I try to make intelligent conversation. Harry
65 Captaingomes : Nice one. There goes your credibility too! Next?
66 Solarix : The poor boy must get picked on by Americans so he comes onto this forum and talks trash about them so he can feel manly.
67 Russophile : Has anyone even bothered to listen to or read reports which quote the actual 'hostage'? She has stated in no uncertain terms that the car she was in w
68 L-188 : Hell, I screwed the hell out of my international logistics/economics professor the other day. He's from Canada and didn't figure anybody here would ha
69 L-188 : Back seat, at night, probably not looking at the speedometer, probably talking to that escort that got killed. No I don't think she was paying partic
70 Ovelix : I thought that Iraq is no more a warzone. Mission Accomplished, remember? Also I don't recall any elections being run in warzones. The US problem in I
71 Gary2880 : 'hey thanks mr terrorist for letting me go, oh yeah would you mind if we stayed till the morning because the americans will shoot us if we try to dri
72 Pelican : The most important question is indeed which version of the story is true. If the car was speeding and didn't stop at signs from the US-troops the acti
73 CURLYHEADBOY : Well, Mrs. Sgrena today says the US soldiers shot to kill her on purpose. This is bull***t of course, she's a communist dripping with anti-American fe
74 QR332 : Touchy touchy - if America handled the entire situation properly, none of this shit would have ever happened. I am happy that Saddam is gone, but lik
75 Sv7887 : I watched that video and it was said that the Marines were securing an area that they'd had taken enemy fire from. It was clear the guy was an insurge
76 NumberTwelve : Very strange - and some people think it wasn't an accident, it was planned , same as a Palestinian Journalist who got killed while while he reported f
77 Post contains links Newark777 : Sgrena, who was kidnapped outside a mosque in Baghdad on February 4, said her captors treated her well and took her to meet the Italian security agent
78 MD11Engineer : Actually Mrs. Sgrena was also writing for the German weekly "Die Zeit" which is a well respected centrist to conservative newspaper. Have you ever he
79 NumberTwelve : Newark, is this sort of justification what the US soldiers did? Very interesting - so shoot her because she is critizising US politics? Eih, they sho
80 Post contains images QR332 : Not a single beheading has been ignored by the Arab media. Again, how much Arab news do you watch? I never tried justify any other events, all of the
81 NumberTwelve : Quoting Sv7887 (reply 75): Obviously Al Jazzera doesn't want to put their friends in a bad light now do they? QR332: Al Jazeera has never supported th
82 Newark777 : No, but I feel the Stockholm syndrome MD11 speaks of may be playing a part in the whole fiasco. Think about it, you are with your captors for a long
83 Post contains links Schoenorama : Are you an expert? Where you there? Have you ever set a foot in Iraq? Are you aware of the fact that this isn't the first incident in which people ar
84 Post contains links Horus : Just found an interesting article on yahoo http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...50306/wl_nm/iraq_italy_shooting_dc ROME (Reuters) - Italian hostage
85 QR332 : Aljazeera is actually one of the very few news stations that is free of government censorship and control here in the Middle East - they have basicall
86 NumberTwelve : QR, when I was in Qatar in 2004 our tour guide said that the US admin contacted toe Qatari government and asked them to inform Al Jazeera to be caref
87 MD11Engineer : Schoenorama, I also made shure that I didn´t do anything which could have bee considered to be threat or provocation. For example, I held my jacket
88 Mham001 : That might have some merit, except that the people who would know whats happening more than anybody, the Iraqis, were the one who kicked AlJazeera ou
89 NumberTwelve : Jan, they didn't have the chance to do anything SLOWLY, they got attacked. And the position from US military that the car drove very fast is denied fr
90 N5176Y : What do you expect? Every Italian I know is a lead-foot and denies it.
91 MD11Engineer : Numbertwelve, I already posted that I heard from friends connected to the British Army, that the British Army doesn´t hold the majority of American t
92 NumberTwelve : Ooooh, great argument: Italians always drive fast and so it's ok to kill them? MD11 - did You also see the friendly fire movies on German TV? They we
93 QR332 : Do you even know which Iraqis kicked them out? Baghdad Bob, aka Mohammed "we won the war because we shot down a plane" Al Sahaf. He kicked them out b
94 Flyboy36y : I have driven is Israel past several military checkpoints. You must STOP. That is Israel, a safe place to drive (yes it is, despite what ppl think not
95 Mham001 : Say what? You do know that they have been shut down at least twice by the Iraqis since then(may still be, I don't know) Or isn't Al Jazeera telling y
96 Newark777 : ROFL, "critical Italian journalists"! Give me a break, and stop glossing over the facts by making it seem as though they knew it was her and shot on
97 Mham001 : If the reporter is claiming she was ambushed, they will soon be finding the big holes in her story. If they wanted her dead, she would be dead. Withou
98 Post contains images L410Turbolet : As if Pentagon, with its track record of lies, is any guarantee of finding what really happened...
99 Schoenorama : Good, although I question whether the Spanish police at that time would have had the authority to empty their guns into your body in case you did any
100 MD11Engineer : Schoenorama, I think it depends less on the authorisation (though it might increase or decrease trigger happiness), but on the level of threat perceiv
101 Post contains links Schoenorama : Unfortunately, we never ever hear the results of these "investigations". Note the date of the article. I completely agree with you on what could have
102 Newark777 : You can't just appear to ignore signals. They either stopped, or they didn't. Harry
103 11Bravo : You have said this over and over again in this thread. It seems to be a central part of your argument. Now I'm no fan of the Bush administration, but
104 Commander_rabb : QR332, I see that you are a teenager and a student. So you are the expert here eh? Learn a little more about the world and then chime in. Your post on
105 Post contains images Schoenorama : To the soldiers, they (the people in the vehicle) obviously appeared to be ignoring the signals, but that doesn't mean that the people in the car act
106 Newark777 : Exactly. The car appeared not to respond, so the Americans were forced to take defensive actions. Explain what is at fault with defending yourself. A
107 11Bravo : It does indeed. I will not defend that idiotic political media show on the USS Abraham Lincoln because it was, well, indefensible. You have indicated
108 N5176Y : Yes it does ring a bell. However you forget to mention (or more likely refuse to mention) that that sign was in reference to the USS Abraham's missio
109 QR332 : My apologies Mham, I honestly forgot about those. Al Jazeera did report them, and even if they hadn't, there are many more news sources in the Middle
110 Post contains links Schoenorama : There's nothing wrong in defending yourself as long as one is absolutely sure the alleged attacker has actually noticed your presence and is willingl
111 N5176Y : Perhaps you should read your own link.
112 11Bravo : You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. None. I can tell you from personal experience that ROE definitions and protocols are changed d
113 Post contains links Schoenorama : You said, in reply # 108 that " that sign was in reference to the USS Abraham's mission, not the US Armed Forces" and I gave you the link to the Whit
114 N5176Y : Again... I think you should go reread your link.
115 Schoenorama : I have re-read my link. I have even copied parts of it which clearly undermine your statements. Why don't you simply point to those parts in my link
116 N5176Y : Nowhere in that statement did Mr. Bush say that the operation in Iraq was over. Nor that it was accomplished. You interpreted that from warped sense o
117 Schoenorama : So on March 1, 2003 Bush has a speech on an aircraft carrier just of the Californian coast and he tells the people present + the rest of the world th
118 FDXMECH : Russophile wrote I'm not so sure. Wouldn't you deny going 100mph in a 25mph zone? I sure would. And telling hizzoner I was the best person to judge my
119 Newark777 : Syntax of a speech does not determine ROE or the current status of a war. You are really reaching if you think using past tense in a few sentences of
120 Turin_airport : Quoting the Italian foreign Minister: "On the way to the airport, where the car has been attacked, there was no check-point", "The Italian car was mov
121 Post contains links Schoenorama : Of course syntax of a speech doesn't determine the Rules of Engagement nor the current status of "the war". But it certainly is indicative of the gre
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