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So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?  
User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5578 posts, RR: 5
Posted (9 years 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1594 times:

Now that Terri Schiavo has died - or, more accurately, now that her body has died - the question remains as to why Michael Schiavo fought so doggedly for removal of the feeding tube. I don't for a minute question the fact that he sincerely believed that Terri had no consciousness remaining and was without any hope of recovery. He also asserted only those rights which he had under Florida law. Even so, under the circumstances, I cannot understand why he didn't just let Terri's parents take over her guardianship and try to provide her with some type of therapy.
Millions of people now consider Michael Schiavo a murderer, and no doubt there are some who'd like to murder him. He'll have to be concerned about his safety, and the safety of his partner and children. At the very minimum, he's lost any semblance of privacy that he once had, and it may take years before things quiet down. If he had agreed to the transfer of guardianship, none of this would have happened. It's not as if he had any financial motive in hastening Terri's (physical) death, the malpractice settlement having been long since spent, and I would highly doubt he particularly cared that keeping Terri's body alive cost the taxpayers $80,000 a year. Compassion for Terri sounds logical but doesn't hold up under review; if Michael believed that Terri had no higher brain function, as seems pretty much uncontrovertable, she wasn't suffering from being sustained on the feeding tube.
In short, Michael Schiavo's actions were legal, and at least in my opinion morally correct, but from a sheerly practical viewpoint they didn't make sense. I'm left with the impression that Michael was more stubborn than logical.


"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNWAFA From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1893 posts, RR: 16
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1588 times:

He is a man of his word..he kept the word of his wife. That was the motive. If he wanted an easy way out he would have given the parents the right to keep on abusing their daughter like they wanted to.


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User currently offlineJdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1580 times:

Quoting NWAFA (Reply 1):

He is a man of his word..he kept the word of his wife. That was the motive. If he wanted an easy way out he would have given the parents the right to keep on abusing their daughter like they wanted to.

My only problem with that is when he went to court to get his money years back he said that the reason for the amount was that he needed to give her care for the next 50 years or so, because that is how long she would live. Also since then he has taken a common law wife and has had 2 children with her. The last time I checked having two spouses is illegal in this county, thus negating one of the marriages. The right decision may have been made but I do not see why she had to die so quickly when there were so many unanswered questions dealing with this case.


User currently offlineNWAFA From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1893 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1568 times:

He waited 5 years before he became invloved with another woman...thats a long time since his wife was brain dead!

The bottom line, he kept the word of his wife. The parents were abusing their daughter.

She has been dead now 3 hours, wonder how many law suits have been filed



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User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8494 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1557 times:

If they're Christians, then letting her die would be mercy. It is understanding that the soul cannot be separated from the body except through death. Thus, even if she is brain-damaged and cannot function, she is still very much alive. But now in death, she will go to her eternal reward and not be lying in bed for years at a time.

I think that his main motive would be closure, followed by wanting to keep her wishes not to be kept alive on life support for over a decade.


User currently offlineJdwfloyd From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 837 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1549 times:

But according to any Dr. that wasn't under Mike's payrole, Terry was far from brain dead, just brain damaged. Before she went into the Hospice she was eating on her own and semi communicating. It is only after she was denied rehab by her husbands order did she slip into the condition we all saw her in. Like I said before something did'nt smell right about this. I am not saying old Mikey wasn't right but too many questions were left unansered.

User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7387 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1537 times:
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Quoting PROSA (Thread starter):
So What Were Michael Schiavo's Motives?

Money.



Made from jets!
User currently offlineDvk From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1058 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1526 times:

You're wrong, Jdwfloyd. The court appointed physicians agreed that Terri was in a persistent vegetative state. She was not denied rehab by her husband. She spent several years after her cardiac arrest being evaluated and given therapy in multiple facilities around the U.S. Michael should not be blamed for Terri's parents' inability to accept their daughter's condition. The few physicians who've disputed her diagnosis never even examined her directly. They've only looked at tapes of her, and that's not sufficient for them to make a diagnosis.

No, she was not technically brain dead. Brain death is defined as "electrocerebral silence", which means that an electroencephalogram shows no evidence of brain activity. In the setting of technical brain death, even the brainstem is no longer functioning, and the person cannot breathe without mechanical ventilation. In the setting of brain death, there is little controversy about discontinuing life support. Terri's brainstem still functioned, which is why she could breathe independently, but all the higher functions of her brain had ceased. The Schindlers' claims that she tried to talk, interact, etc., are the claims of desperate people who don't understand the condition, and/or are in complete denial.

From the standpoints of compassion, reason, AND faith, Michael Schiavo's actions were justified, and I believe the vast majority of ethicists would support him.



I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1519 times:

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 5):
But according to any Dr. that wasn't under Mike's payrole, Terry was far from brain dead, just brain damaged.

Not true. In fact, no doctors reached that conclusion except a recent one commissioned by the parents with strong ties to the right to life movement.

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 5):
Before she went into the Hospice she was eating on her own and semi communicating.

No, she wasn't. Ever.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 6):
Money

And what money did he get?

Come on people. If he just wanted to be clean of her, her parents had been standing by for 10 years to take over. They had the money and desire to support her.

She wanted to die. She had no desire to live 15 years of her life like this. He wanted her to have what she wanted.

I can only hope my partner is so diligent if something like this happens to me.

N


User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5327 posts, RR: 53
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1514 times:

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 6):
Money.

Which is why he turned down the $10 million he was offered if he would sign over guardianship to her parents, right? Consider that there is no money. The money from the malpractice case is gone and the money from the life insurance will be gone soon to pay off her care. When Terri Schiavo died she was on Medicaid - not a lot of money there.

Quoting PROSA (Thread starter):
Even so, under the circumstances, I cannot understand why he didn't just let Terri's parents take over her guardianship and try to provide her with some type of therapy.

PROSA, because he believed Terry's parents would only prolong Terry's life for the sole purpose of the fact that they couldn't cope with the notion of losing their daughter. Read this excerpt from the court appointed guardian ad litem describing his interview with the Schindlers:

Testimony provided by members of the Schindler family included very personal statements about their desire and intention to ensure that Theresa remain alive. Throughout the course of the litigation, deposition and trial testimony by members of the Schindler family voiced the disturbing belief that they would keep Theresa alive at any and all costs. Nearly gruesome examples were given, eliciting agreement by family members that in the event Theresa should contract diabetes and subsequent gangrene in each of her limbs, they would agree to amputate each limb, and would then, were she to be diagnosed with heart disease, perform open heart surgery. There was additional, difficult testimony that appeared to establish that despite the sad and undesirable condition of Theresa, the parents still derived joy from having her alive, even if Theresa might not be at all aware of her environment given the persistent vegetative state. Within the testimony, as part of the hypotheticals presented, Schindler family members stated that even if Theresa had told them of her intention to have artificial nutrition withdrawn, they would not do it.

Think about this...they would hack off all of her limbs to ensure her survival - not her recovery, but just to maintain her at the level she was, they would have had her limbs amputated. At what point would they have stopped, left well enough alone, and let her pass?



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7387 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1514 times:
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Quoting Dvk (Reply 7):
Brain death is defined as "electrocerebral silence", which means that an electroencephalogram shows no evidence of brain activity.

The last full-scale diagnosis she had was in 1994

Quoting Dvk (Reply 7):
The Schindlers' claims that she tried to talk, interact, etc., are the claims of desperate people who don't understand the condition, and/or are in complete denial.

And what are you basing this on?



Made from jets!
User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3505 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1506 times:

Court awarded nice sum of money for doctors negligence in her case. He took his part few years ago and made his life with a new woman.

Now he will take also Terry's part.


User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9237 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1501 times:

Quoting PROSA (Thread starter):
$80,000 a year.

That's $80,000 a month.

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 2):
Also since then he has taken a common law wife and has had 2 children with her. The last time I checked having two spouses is illegal in this county, thus negating one of the marriages

Commonlaw is far different than "law."

What would you JD? Sit around and jerk your carrot for the next 50 years hoping for a miracle, or try to move on and get on with things? Get a grip.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 6):
Money.

Even if so, he's entitled to every last penny. The loss of her and her income plus the initial fees from her heart attack and then into the hospice care center.....WEREN'T CHEAP.



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7387 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1501 times:
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Quoting Gigneil (Reply 8):
And what money did he get?

The book deal he's going to get.

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 9):
The money from the malpractice case is gone and the money from the life insurance will be gone soon to pay off her care


Wrong, Velos is working pro-bono on this case. Micheal Shaivo will get a large portion of the life insurance, in which he will most like give to his wife so the gov't can't touch it.



Made from jets!
User currently offlineDvk From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1058 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1491 times:

Jetjack...People do not recover from a persistent vegetative state, regardless of what some of the Schindlers and their supporters claim. That she was diagnosed repeatedly with PVS is still valid, even if the last official evaluation was in 1994. This is a condition from which a person does not recover.

I base my statement about the Schindlers on my own, direct, professional observation of patients with PVS over the years. I have seen family members desperate for some evidence of interaction claim that non-purposeful reflexes, noises, etc. were attempts at communication. Because the physicians who've evaluated Terri over the years concurred on her diagnosis, I am confident in my assessment.



I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.
User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7387 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1487 times:
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Quoting Dvk (Reply 7):
From the standpoints of compassion, reason, AND faith, Michael Schiavo's actions were justified, and I believe the vast majority of ethicists would support him


So why don't we just pull the feeding tube on the Pope while we're talking about faith. The bottom line is, that he went and had kids and built a life with another woman, hadn't been to see her since 1995. I'm extremely skeptical this guy is sincere about his wife best wishes and more concerned about his own.



Made from jets!
User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3505 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1486 times:

Quoting Dvk (Reply 14):
Jetjack...People do not recover from a persistent vegetative state,

Sometimes they do. There were many unexplained cases in the world where people just woke up after many years that is one.

Two - there were serious doubts whether she was in persistent vegetative state.


User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5327 posts, RR: 53
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1485 times:

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 13):
Wrong, Velos is working pro-bono on this case. Micheal Shaivo will get a large portion of the life insurance,

Again, why not just take the $10 million and run?



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12883 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1480 times:

Some have pointed out that Michael Schiavo did a 180 on keeping Terri alive after receiving the malpractice claim judgment of about $300,000 for him and about $700,000 in trust for Terri. At or about that time is when the split as to the continued artifical feeding support occured between him and the parents occured. Until the judgement, he apparently did try to help Terri in various ways, actively gave here attention on a regular basis, including attempts to use unconventional and experimental therapies. Perhaps the failure of those and other therapies, the inability to cope with her condition, his belief that she expressed not wanting extensive life support and perhaps expressing his desires for what he would want done if it were him, then finally getting some compensation from the doctors, all led to the decisions to use his power of guardianship to remove the feeding tube life support.

User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5327 posts, RR: 53
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1477 times:

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 15):
The bottom line is, that he went and had kids and built a life with another woman,

Which the Schindler Family actually encouraged, going so far as to meet his lover. As for "not being to visit her since '95..." proof?

Quoting Danny (Reply 16):
There were many unexplained cases in the world where people just woke up after many years that is one.

You're confusing "coma" with a PVS. One doesn't just "wake up" when they're missing a sizeable chunk of their cerebral cortex.

Quoting Danny (Reply 16):
Two - there were serious doubts whether she was in persistent vegetative state

Legally there wasn't and medically there wasn't. The only doctors who raised doubts were ones who viewed short segments of videotape and who hadn't done a full eval of Schiavo - like Bill Frist for instance. Speaking of, I need to send him a video of a mole I have so he can determine if its cancerous....



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7387 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1476 times:
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Quoting Dvk (Reply 14):
Because the physicians who've evaluated Terri over the years concurred on her diagnosis, I am confident in my assessment

And the medical professionals that the Schindlers hired, didn't concurr with the professionals that Shiavo has hired. You can find anyone who will tell you what you want to hear. All it takes is money. Only another medical professional can disagree with it.



Made from jets!
User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5327 posts, RR: 53
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1471 times:

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 20):
You can find anyone who will tell you what you want to hear. All it takes is money. Only another medical professional can disagree with it.

And the physician appointed by the Court in the initial guardianship hearing, perhaps the most neutral party involved in the mess, concurred with Schiavo's doctors.



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3505 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1465 times:

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 19):
Quoting Danny (Reply 16):
Two - there were serious doubts whether she was in persistent vegetative state

Legally there wasn't and medically there wasn't.

Legally there wasn't - because the judge disallowed all evidence contrary to his point of view.

Medically - there were many. Videotapes showing her head following a balloon, audio tape with responses to her father. The problem was that her "husband" and the judge did now allow for full examination by independent doctors.


User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5327 posts, RR: 53
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1456 times:

Quoting Danny (Reply 22):
Videotapes showing her head following a balloon

Ah the infamous videotape. Shame you didn't see the whole length of it, as apparently they tried repeated times to get her eyes to follow the balloon and only succeeded once. According to the court:

At first blush, the video of Terry Schiavo appearing to smile and look lovingly at her mother seemed to represent cognition. This was also true for how she followed the Mickey Mouse balloon held by her father. The court has carefully viewed the videotapes as requested by counsel and does find that these actions were neither consistent nor reproducible. For instance, Terry Schiavo appeared to have the same look on her face when Dr. Cranford rubbed her neck. Dr. Greer testified she had a smile during his (non-videoed) examination. Also, Mr. Schindler tried several more times to have her eyes follow the Mickey Mouse balloon but without success. Also, she clearly does not consistently respond to her mother. The court finds that based on the credible evidence, cognitive function would manifest itself in a constant response to stimuli.

Quoting Danny (Reply 22):
The problem was that her "husband" and the judge did now allow for full examination by independent doctors.

Actually, the lynchpin member of the 5 doctor panel who examined Schiavo was an "independent doctor" who had been appointed by the court.



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1452 times:

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 10):
And what are you basing this on?

Facts?

Quoting Danny (Reply 16):
There were many unexplained cases in the world where people just woke up after many years that is one.

Not after 15 years there arent. Coma patients and vegetables are completely different, as well.

Quoting Danny (Reply 16):
Two - there were serious doubts whether she was in persistent vegetative state.

No, there weren't. Not by anybody but her parents.

N


25 Dvk : Jetjack74--I am another medical professional. I've been board-certified in internal medicine since 1988. I'm not a jack-leg making an assessment on th
26 Jetjack74 : Tha't hearsay. That's what Shaivo said on Larry King, not the Schindlers. Terri's sister and brother CNN, that's who. But nobody can be sure, the cou
27 Post contains links and images EA CO AS : So why don't we just pull the feeding tube on the Pope while we're talking about faith. The phrase "glittering jewel of colossal ignorance" comes scre
28 Damirc : Incorrect. He was in his 2nd longer relationship 2 years after Terri had her cardiac arrest. 5 years after he met his current girlfriend (I am not su
29 Jetjack74 : The state found evidence that the diagnosis could be flawed. If she was in a PVS and can't feel or react to anything, than why is she given morphine?
30 Damirc : She did? How do you know? Because Michael said it? One of his former girlfriends made an affidavit stating that regarding her wishes he told her "Wha
31 Damirc : Maybe George Felos worked pro-bono on this case, but he sacked in $396,000 of Terri's money back when Michael Schiavo sued the doctors ... D.
32 Gigneil : He was her HUSBAND. This isn't petty childish crap that happens between friends. The decision was his. He made it. N
33 Damirc : Where did you hear that? From what I've read, he won $1,200,000 and approximately $550,000 were spent by the end of 1993 - mostly lawyer bills, some
34 Damirc : So now it wasn't Terri who wanted to die, but it was Michael who wanted her to die? D.[Edited 2005-03-31 21:50:57]
35 Jetjack74 : So starving someone that you feel is not quite there, is some kind of heroic act? It seems the "right to die" folks want to yank the cord from every
36 Jetjack74 : That's exactly what it is, if this alledged conversation ever really took place. That's why only a living will could ever justify this, dude!
37 Jetjack74 : Sums it up right there.
38 Gigneil : I would want my partner to make these sorts of decisions on my behalf, which is how the legal "institution of marriage" in this country works. If Mich
39 Jaysit : The state found evidence that the diagnosis could be flawed. If she was in a PVS and can't feel or react to anything, than why is she given morphine?
40 Danny : I think it is obvious. There was absolutely no evidence that she wanted to die.
41 Gigneil : Again, what possible motivation could he have? You don't need evidence, except to the contrary. He's her husband, his word on her wishes is law. Perio
42 Damirc : Problem being the fact that Terri wanted to divorce him and the day before (February 24th) they were fighting all day - it's all too convenient for h
43 Gigneil : And where the hell did that come from? That is such a random and ridiculous story. Conspiracy theorists of the world unite! You're the one that shoul
44 Dvk : Yeah, too convenient that she suffered cardiac arrest from documented hypokalemia (low potassium)...Sorry, but her husband couldn't make Terri's potas
45 Damirc : I've posted a couple of links 2 days ago ... suggest you read some of those. Her brother is on record with saying she wanted a divorce and her best f
46 Damirc : Oh, and Gigneil ... Before you say her brother and her best friend commited perjury ... Neither of them have a history of commiting perjury .... Micha
47 PROSA : I heard that she developed the condition as a result of bulimia.
48 Pe@rson : Presuming she was on some form of life-support machine, I would have preferred that to have been switched off rather than her feeding tube be removed
49 PROSA : She wasn't on a respirator or other form of life-support machine. Starvation probably wasn't painful given her lack of any higher brain functions. In
50 Aerorobnz : Who cares? the ordeal is over now. Leave the post-mortems to the coroners.
51 SFOMEX : How do you say money in English? Oh yes, money. I hope he enjoys every penny.
52 Aerorobnz : So do I. He deserves every cent for what he has had to put up with.
53 Gigneil : I agree. He's been put through hell at the hands of Terri's psychotic parents, and deserves whatever he can get. N
54 Falcon84 : Motives? He was with her through this for FIFTEEN YEARS. She's been basically brain dead that whole time. But unlike Mr. Hypocrite Tom DeLay, he didn'
55 Sprout5199 : This getting crazy, F^ck all the right to lifers, and F^ck all the right to deathers.As I posted on another topic, till you walk a mile in his shoes,
56 J_Hallgren : Saw the press conference that his lawyer did this afternoon...he is a real piece of $%^&! Even said that the lack of food and water would not cause he
57 Aerorobnz : absolutely. That's the whole crux of the situation.
58 Texdravid : The furious reactions on both sides of this issue hide almost completely the following: 1). The Schindlers were over the top in trying to hold on to a
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