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What Are Catholics Against?  
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19233 posts, RR: 52
Posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1688 times:

What things, besides the following, are Catholics - perhaps especially the extreme - against?

1) Contraception, including condoms

2) Homosexuality

3) Abortion

This thread has not been created to bash the Pope, but rather to understand the Catholic religion a bit better. So please refain from moaning and groaning.

[Edited 2005-04-01 19:18:11]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
93 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1683 times:

Female clergy

Married clergy


User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1675 times:

Perhapse a better question might be, what are Catholics for? We get so locked into the idea of "you're encroaching on my absolute freedom" that we sometimes forget that Church law is not meant to restrict but to liberate. It seems counterintuitive on the surface, but it is the intent, despite the fact it will inevitiably rub some people the wrong way. It's also something that does not neatly fits into a soundbite.

Charles, SJ



The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19233 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1669 times:

Quoting Ctbarnes (Reply 3):
Perhapse a better question might be, what are Catholics for?

No, I am interested, for now, on what they do not believe in.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1657 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 4):
No, I am interested, for now, on what they do not believe in.

Why?

Charles, SJ



The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19233 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1651 times:

Quoting Ctbarnes (Reply 6):
Why?

Because I am. It is easier, I think, to look at one side first and then the other, instead of having confusion and uncertainty when both sides are mixed together like a cocktail.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1647 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 7):
Because I am. It is easier, I think, to look at one side first and then the other, instead of having confusion and uncertainty when both sides are mixed together like a cocktail.

With the added benefit of yet another Church bashing thread. Give it a rest!

Charles, SJ



The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19233 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1639 times:

Quoting Ctbarnes (Reply 8):
With the added benefit of yet another Church bashing thread

If you care to read a couple of sentences found in my opening thread you will realise that this is not meant to be an anti-Catholic thread. I will, for your benefit, copy it below.

Quoting Pe@rson (Thread starter):
This thread has not been created to bash the Pope, but rather to understand the Catholic religion a bit better. So please refain from moaning and groaning.

Now, if you have nothing to add to help answer my question, please do not reply again.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1629 times:

Please don't insult my intelligence, Pe@rson. If you read the replies, guess what looks like? Flamebait.

Charles, SJ



The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 43
Reply 9, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1613 times:

Quoting Ctbarnes (Reply 10):
If you read the replies, guess what looks like? Flamebait.

One, maybe two replies could be taken as "flamebait". So why attack the entire thread and, more importantly, the one who started it?



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineAGC525 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 989 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1612 times:

wow, an anti catholic thread while the Pope in on his deathbed. Typical a.net


American Aviation: From Kitty Hawk to the Moon in 66 years!
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19233 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1609 times:

Quoting Ctbarnes (Reply 10):
If you read the replies, guess what looks like? Flamebait.

I can't help what people reply with. Of course such a topic will result in debate, but that per se is not at all bad. If people get wound up about it, then that's their problem. My intention was not to wind people up. Everyone seems to be wanting not to discuss the things Catholics are against. Why? Have something to hide, perhaps because it's illogical, inhumane, immoral? I just don't know, hence my genuine thread to reach the truth.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 43
Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1589 times:

Quoting AGC525 (Reply 10):
wow, an anti catholic thread while the Pope in on his deathbed. Typical a.net

So Pe@rson can't ask a question concerning the things the Roman Catholic Church opposes because the Pope is dying? I bet that if you asked that same Pope this very same question, he wouldn't be in the least offended.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1580 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 11):
Why? Have something to hide, perhaps because it's illogical, inhumane, immoral?

Because we have more important things to do.


By the way, between heaven and earth there is nothing hidden.


User currently offlineLogan22L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1576 times:

Pe@rson: Add the Ten Commandments to your initial list and the two tossed in by AsstChiefMark and you've got a pretty good list. From an ethics standpoint, and depending on your perspective on the matter, some of these positions can be fairly well justified.

I can't help but think, though, that the very three you mentioned, all have one and only one outcome: more potential Catholics. Sure, it's cloaked in ethics, but the outcome is still convenient. One of the major problems I have with organized religion is that it has become a competition. We've got more members that you do; ours is the "right" religion, so you are going to hell, and I am going to heaven. This ties directly to my fundamental concept of religion: it has done far more to divide people than it has to bring them together. The UK is a great example, the Middle East is a great example; Serbia-Croatia is a great example; Soviet Armenia is a great example...


Logan

[Edited 2005-04-01 20:32:35]

User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 43
Reply 15, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1575 times:

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 13):
Because we have more important things to do.

Such as?

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 13):
By the way, between heaven and earth there is nothing hidden.

So please tell me, what's with the miracles?



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19233 posts, RR: 52
Reply 16, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1570 times:

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 13):
Because we have more important things to do.

Then I will ask you in a couple of days.

It certainly seems that people aren't willing to talk about it. It really begs the question: why? Your argument that you have "more important things to do" is an inadequate answer, for you are posting on A.net so must not have "more important things to do." You are avoiding the subject and trying to avoid answering my question. This begs the question: why? The most logical explanation is that you are trying to hide something.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19233 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1561 times:

Thanks, Logan. See, that was a reasoned reply!


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineDvk From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1058 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1539 times:

4) Masturbation--because it "violates the essential completeness of the act", if I remember the wording from the official pamphlet on sexuality I received as a teen. Want to guess what the most frequent rule violation among Catholic men is?

Other than basic, universal taboos based on the golden rule and the Ten Commandments, my experience with Catholicism is that most of the additional "thou shalt nots" relate directly, or indirectly, to sex. The hierarchy of the church adheres strongly to the negativity toward sex that is fostered by Paul in the New Testament ("better to marry than to burn...", but best not to have sex at all is the gist of Paul's teachings).



I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.
User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1536 times:

Quoting Aloges (Reply 15):
Such as?

I think that if you are a Med Student and have a RR of 54, you're smart enough to answer that question without my help.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 15):
So please tell me, what's with the miracles?

Only God do miracles. But to experience a miracle, the person must have faith.

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 16):
Your argument that you have "more important things to do" is an inadequate answer, for you are posting on A.net so must not have "more important things to do."

The problem is not the answer. The problem is the question.


User currently offlinePacificWestern From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1531 times:

Catholics are basically against anything that is not Catholic.

My mother's side of the family are Catholic and my father's side are Protestant. We were raised as Protestants, as were another bunch of cousins who where from a Catholic mother and Protestant father. Growing up, the Catholic side of the family looked down upon us non-Papists. It was made quite clear on MANY occasions that my Catholic cousins were somehow better, more worthy, blessed, than were were.

Where did such attitudes come from? Why....it was all a part of their Catholic upbringing of course. Catholics good....everyone else outsiders, tolerable, to a point, but bound for Hell.


User currently offlineLogan22L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1522 times:

Quoting Dvk (Reply 18):
4) Masturbation--because it "violates the essential completeness of the act",

Good catch, Dvk. That one also ties in with abortion, contraception, and homosexuality, as it prevents the creation of more Catholics.

Logan


User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 22, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1465 times:

OK, Pe@rson. You've convinced me. Here's my constructive 2 cents:

There's basically two ways of looking at laws in general: Freedom from and freedom for. Both are operative at the same time so it's incomplete to say what the Church is against without looking at what the Church is in favor of. There are several places in the Bible, both in the Old and New Testament where law is treated, most famously in the 10 Commandments. Yet there are additional laws in the New Testament that must be taken with the 10 commandments at the same time, namely the Beatitudes in Matthews Gospel as a positive statement of what must be done. (the Thou shalts, if you will). Add to this Jesus' use of the Greatest Commandment (which he actually quotes from Deuteronomy): "Love God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind and all your strength, and your neighbor as yourself"

How does this translate into theological ethics? The central thing operative in Church law is that our own formed conscience is paramount in dicerning the relative morality of a given situation. This is done by prayer, reading scripture, and prayerful reflection. It's not a licence to do what you will, nor is it "cafeteria catholicism" as some have characterized it. Nor is everything the pope says considered infallible, as some say. Church law differs from secular law in that it is not simply a list of laws and precepts that we follow or be damned (literally). If it were reduced to that than the Church becomes everything people criticise it for being. It may seem on the surface like a list of do's and don'ts, but the reality is more complex and nuanced.

Charles, SJ



The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlineLogan22L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1446 times:

Quoting Ctbarnes (Reply 28):
This is done by prayer, reading scripture, and prayerful reflection.

Charles, I knew you'd break down and provide something to hang one's hat on. A Question or two, and I hope this isn't too far off-topic:

Do you consider prayer to be analogous to meditation as described in eastern religions? As background, both include repetition (e.g., five Hail Mary's, etc., vs. a repeated Mantra), apparently designed to dominate the minds vision and remove wandering thoughts. This can allow for complete concentration on whatever is the goal of the prayer or mediatation.

The problem arises in that, in eastern thought, the goal is to focus on nothingness, whereas in western religions, it seems as if the goal is to communicate with God, or Jesus, etc. One way I have of reconciling this issue, or difference, is in my conception of God. I view God as the collective power of all sentient beings. We mediatate (or pray, as you wish) to see our part in all of this. I personally feel that too many westerners (and many others) pray for good things to happen to them, rather than for the strength to deal with life sends their way.

Thanks,

John

[Edited 2005-04-01 21:53:40]

User currently offlineNWADC9 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4897 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1445 times:

How the heck did this thread turn into Pe@rson bashing the Pope?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!??! What I read here, and what I'm comprehending, is that he's just curious as to what Catholics believe in and what they are against.


Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
25 AJBUS300 : @Pearson It is very obvious that you are against the Catholic religion, and not just from this thread but other posts I have read. So, with that said.
26 Aloges : Do I have amnesia or something? Let me check, name, address, phone number... I still remember all of that, now how come I don't remember saying there
27 Pe@rson : No. I am against all religions. Fair enough. I look forward to receiving good arguments from you in the coming week, then.
28 787 : Yeah sure! Now we know your true stated reason for posting this at this time. You hate Catholicism and want to drag it in the mud in a back handed wa
29 Post contains images Pe@rson : LMAO. No, I will post exactly the same question on all religions in the next few weeks. I will also post questions concerning all the 'for' things, to
30 Post contains images Jasepl :
31 787 : You want to learn about Catholicism yet you feel the way you do? Give me a break. Pe@rson=Flamebait. Nice try. End of your story.
32 Pe@rson : LOL. I don't understand why you have a problem with someone expressing opinion. Is freedom of speech not permitted in Italy? Of course you won't like
33 787 : Allow me to quote you..... Feet can taste good no? End of your story.[Edited 2005-04-01 22:57:23]
34 SFOMEX : In a regular, normal day I'd more than happy to share my thoughts with Pe@rson and other fellow A.netters who like to discuss or bash (take your pick)
35 777236ER : Only one person has managed a decent answer. Perhaps that tells us a lot about Catholics.
36 JUANR : Pearson: the mourning for the Pope's death will take at least 3 weeks, until the new Pope is elected; we already know how much disrespect you have tow
37 Post contains images Pe@rson : See, I can understand that, SFOMEX. That was a fair post. And for your info, I am interested in beliefs both for and against of ALL religions, not jus
38 Post contains images Aloges : 2nd! Wow, someone wants to learn about a thing he doesn't like... must be a bad, evil pe(@)rson! Oh come on. He isn't insulting anyone just because h
39 Ctbarnes : How are you able to understand Catholicism better if you are filtering it through your biases? If you want to do what you set out to do, you need to
40 787 : What a ridiculous statement when you consider his beliefs. You need to rethink how people can insult others just by saying what they believe in is ev
41 Pe@rson : Which are two of the main things religion creates.
42 TACAA320 : Thanks for the advise, but I feel perfectly ok. The only one here who claimed to be sick is YOU. That is an impossible task with your intervention...
43 Post contains images 787 : I guess you are religious after all! And you didn't even know it. (Or anything else for that matter! Nice try but you have been . hee hee
44 Pe@rson : Not at all. As a matter of fact, my grandad (when he was alive) was a senior religious person and we were extremely close. I gained a lot of insight f
45 Pope : Fundamentally, we Catholics believe that Jesus Christ was the son of God. That he is completely human and completely divine at the same time. That by
46 Pope : Thank you for those kind words.
47 Post contains images Ctbarnes : That's news to me... Charles, SJ
48 DfwRevolution : Modern Catholic theology recognizes that homesexual feelings are typically not a choice and are simply felt by the individual. The Catholic Church te
49 Post contains images Aerorobnz : - Personal Choice. - Anything that's any fun at all. Such as Sex before marriage. All this reminds me of Rowan Atkinson's "Welcome to Hell" Skit. It's
50 Ctbarnes : Christians over there, please... I don't know how to tell you this: The Jews were right! RLMAO! That sketch is hysterical! See you at the barbecue, C
51 Aa757first : I went to nine years of Catholic school and evolution was taught when it fit into that year's science curriculum. AAndrew
52 NWAFA : Birth control Choice Love Teaching responsibility
53 ContnlEliteCMH : Oh baloney. This is an intellectual cop-out. There are plenty of people of all religions which are neither ignorant nor intolerant. And trust me, I c
54 Falcon84 : And the Pope/Catholic bitch-fest from NWAFA continues. The Church is definitely not about the last three you mentioned, which shows not only are you
55 NWAFA : Does not teach birth control Does not allow people to love You can't have a choice. Enough your swearing. you need to be banned from the system!
56 Falcon84 : NWAFA, you can get hysterical all you want. I'm a Catholic, and I can tell you, without equivocation, that the Church DOES teach love, DOES teach that
57 NWAFA : Honor all you want. I even said a prayer for him today..but enough of 24/7 reporting on news.
58 NWAFA : There must be other news to report for the news channels..but this must be the ONLY event going on in the world.
59 Jetjack74 : Does anyone remember, way back when Terri Shiavo died? Ohhh, what was it 3 days ago.
60 Falcon84 : You trying to compare the Terri Schiavo fiasco with this, JetJack?
61 TACAA320 : Can you be more specific?
62 Post contains images Jetjack74 : Why? Wanna make somethin of it?
63 Falcon84 : If you think the Schiavo case is as important as the Pontiff dying, I think you have some serious problems, that's all.
64 Jetjack74 : No, someone was complaining about how much is too much coverage for the Pope. I was just pointing out that just a few days ago, it was Schiavo, 24/7.
65 TACAA320 : As a Catholic, I can assure you that both are equally important, since behalf the eyes of God, both were equal in dignity. Even more, if we can ask J
66 Falcon84 : As a Catholic, I can assure you that the Schiavo case pales in comparison with the death of the Holy Father. Not even close. And as a Catholic, I hav
67 NWAFA : Even as a non catholic, the Schiavo case pales in comparison to the Pope's death.
68 Yyz717 : I don't see NWAFA bitching. He is raising legitimate issues that many people have with the teachings of the Catholic church. You may be Catholic Alph
69 NWAFA : Very well said YYZ! But if you disagree with someone on this board they start the personal attacks. But I guess some are allowed to break the rules he
70 JCS17 : I think there are times (well, any other time than this) when criticism of the Catholic church is warranted. But, even as a Catholic who is very unhap
71 787 : Catholics are against sin. Sin. Plain and simple. Having said that, you can now lock this thread.
72 NWAFA : What is sin? A woman not submitting to her husband is counted as sin to some.
73 Falcon84 : Yyz, as usual, you miss the mark by a mile. He's welcomed to his views, but he makes it sound like every station on the planet is broadcasting about t
74 AJBUS300 : For all those who are sick and tired of watching the coverage on the death of the Holy Father and claim there is NOTHING else on TV....go rent a movie
75 TACAA320 : Everything a person do against God's will.
76 787 : LOL. What else can I do but laugh a that.
77 PacificWestern : God's actual will, or someone's interpretation of God's will??? (And I am not specifically referencing the late JP II.)
78 NWAFA : Love is not against gods will.
79 Falcon84 : 1. Having the audacity to be non-union. 2. Not paying enough for an airline ticket. 3. Not paying enough for said ticket, and then daring to ask NWAF
80 787 : Is that a can of pop or a can of poop? I can't tell the difference from his serving tray.
81 TACAA320 : Of course not. God [with cap] is love. I. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. II. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image. III. Thou shal
82 TACAA320 : I really don't know to whom you are referring to. But God was very clear when left us His commandments.
83 SFOMEX : I intended to stay away of some idiocy you see all the time in the forums, but this gem needs to be addressed. NWAFA, be clear. What you call "love"
84 MD-90 : 787, that was uncalled for. I considered responding to this thread when it was first started, since I have some idea of what non-Catholics might find
85 Mika : No. I am against all religions. I am not taking a stand for or against catholicism or any other religion here but the human being needs something to b
86 Post contains links TACAA320 : If you really want that, you must study some documents before. It's really hard to "understand" better a religion in a chat like this without such do
87 TACAA320 : God's will has always be the same. From the beginning of times until the end. So you can't say "actual will" as it is different from other time. In o
88 SSTjumbo : Above all else, the Catholic church is supposed to be against selfishness, exclusion, and anything else that impedes on unconditional love and charity
89 TACAA320 : Only God IS perfect. The CC, as human, is fallible and commit errors as ANY other Church on earth.
90 Post contains images JGPH1A : Oh dear, well Pe@rson is no longer among us (temporarily) - clearly the Inquisition got to him ! ("Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition !") Or maybe
91 MD11Engineer : Ok, I´m not a Roman-Catholic, but having been married to one, having a daughter raised in Roman-Catholic faith and being practically engaged to anoth
92 TACAA320 : You can't expect a thread like that from him.
93 TACAA320 : After 92 replies to this thread, my personal conclusion is that they are completely useless "to understand the Catholic religion a bit better." To un
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