Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Republicans Are Out Of LIne Concerning Schiavo  
User currently offlineTbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7013 posts, RR: 26
Posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2206 times:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...401/ap_on_go_co/schiavo_politics_4

Some quotes from the article:

"The actions on the part of the Florida court and the U.S. Supreme Court are unconscionable," Sen. Rick Santorum (news, bio, voting record), R-Pa., said Thursday"

"This loss happened because our legal system did not protect the people who need protection most, and that will change," House Majority Leader Tom DeLay added... "The time will come for the men responsible for this to answer for their behavior," said the Texan."

" Asked later at a news conference about possible impeachment proceedings against judges in the case, DeLay said, "There's plenty of time to look into that."

DeLay complained of "an arrogant and out of control judiciary that thumbs its nose at Congress and the president."


There is a sane Republican commenting on this though:

" Republican Sen. John McCain rejected DeLay's characterization of federal judges on Friday. "I don't agree with it," he said on CBS' "The Early Show."

***

This makes me so mad on so many levels. Hypocrisy at its worst.

1. They talk about a "culture of life" and the value of life, and yet we still have the death penalty in our country. Bush and Delay fought so hard to save this woman's life, and yet their state of Texas carries out more executions than any other.

2. They are supposed to be the party of less government. Conservatives are supposed to be against government interference, which is the opposite of what happened here.

3. They bitch and whine about "liberal judicial activism" when they don't get decisions in the court they wanted. They scream of injustice, when it was the courts themselves, the justice system itself that soundly rejected appeal after appeal. They should accept this as part of the system, its why we have a court system in our country so that the legislative branch can't dominate and shape the laws as they see fit. Its a balance that is written in the constitution.

4. Tom Delay needs to be very careful what he says. Answer to their behavior? Is he threatening judges? These aren't liberal hippie judges down in Florida, just think back to the 2000 elections. Impeachment? I highly doubt that is legal in this situation. I don't believe you can impeach a judge because you disagree with his/her judicial ruling. What they are talking about is worse than the "liberal judicial tyrants", this is trying to forcefully shape the judicial system outside of their congressional limits.

5. Why is Tom Delay making such a fuss about this now? I find it very suspicious that he has jumped onto the Schiavo case during a time when he is facing increasing ethics questions.

Ultimately, this makes me so mad because this is a personal matter which the government (outside of the courts) had no right to intervene. The parents had the right to appeal the decisions, and it went through the courts. This was in the hands of the court system, and because Congress disagrees with the decision... well too bad! The decision was appealed to the Supreme Court, the highest court in the land. They rejected the case, and that is it.

If this goes further, if Congress or the Republicans dare to take action against these judges, I will be infuriated.


NO URLS in signature
50 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17824 posts, RR: 46
Reply 1, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2205 times:

It's a whole different brand of conservative to which I, or any self respecting conservative, do not subscribe.


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineTriStarEnvy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2265 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2196 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 1):
It's a whole different brand of conservative to which I, or any self respecting conservative, do not subscribe.

Indeed. That's TWO of us.



If you don't stand for SOMETHING, you'll fall for ANYTHING.
User currently offlineNYCFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1388 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2192 times:

hell, three of us. I have lost so much respect for the right wing of this country through this affair. The irony is that after Jeb Bush & Co. made asses of themselves trying to "adopt" Terri as a ward of the state, the demonstrators outside the hospice start demonizing Jeb and GWB for "not doing enough." So I guess these people expect rule of law and the Constitution should be suspended? Unbelievable. This country scares me.

User currently offlineLogan22L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2178 times:

I'm glad to see some conservatives here who see this as it is. I have both liberal and conservative views, but overall I'm a liberal, and I've lost respect for just about everybody in DC and State Government banghead . Certainly many conservatives have switched their perpective to suit their convenience on this one, but liberals have done the same thing on past issues.

I'm glad to hear what John McCain said. I have always liked him, and would even consider voting for a reasonable man such as this Wow!.

It's probably an over-played position, but whatever happended to working together to just get things done?

Logan


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8766 posts, RR: 42
Reply 5, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2161 times:

And FINALLY, the right-wing nuts make the mistake that might enable those who voted for them to see right through them. Remember, it's your PRESIDENT and the MAJORITY leader you're talking about - not some random extremist from far, far out there in the Great Plains.

I guess that's what you get when you let religion interfere too much with the state.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3516 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2150 times:

They are damn right about judges though. A judge can rule anything he/she wants, even something completely out of mind, ignore all evidence and there is no way to stop this.

User currently offlineAC320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2142 times:

Quoting Danny (Reply 6):
and there is no way to stop this

I thought that's why there's an appeals process?


User currently offlineTriStarEnvy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2265 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2140 times:

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 4):
It's probably an over-played position, but whatever happended to working together to just get things done?

The fact that Jesse Jackson sat down w/Jeb and seemed to have a conversation, blew me away. Hey, maybe something GOOD can come out of this sad mess. Two different points of view, talking about ways of doing something together.

Hell, it's like the OLD Republican Party was, when I cast my first vote, back in 1980. I think the rancor and animosity of the last two elections just have polarized us all, a little too much.



If you don't stand for SOMETHING, you'll fall for ANYTHING.
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8766 posts, RR: 42
Reply 9, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2139 times:

Quoting Danny (Reply 6):
A judge can rule anything he/she wants, even something completely out of mind, ignore all evidence and there is no way to stop this.

I heard there are those little things called "laws" they have to take an occasional look at. Additionally, has anyone counted the courts the Schindlers lost in? There was more than just one judge ruling against Terri Schiavo's physical existance.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2137 times:

They are damn right about judges though. A judge can rule anything he/she wants, even something completely out of mind, ignore all evidence and there is no way to stop this.

What bunk.

A majority of these judges were all conservatives who were applying the law rigidly, just like Republicans like it.

Your reaction is just indicative of how easy it is for despots like Delay to sway the minds of the ignorant.


User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5426 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2136 times:

Quoting Danny (Reply 6):
A judge can rule anything he/she wants, even something completely out of mind, ignore all evidence and there is no way to stop this.

I seem to recall these things called "appeals courts" existing at both the state and federal levels?



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3516 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2136 times:

Quoting AC320 (Reply 7):
I thought that's why there's an appeals process?

Really? So why all courts in Chiavo case refused to look into the matter of the case. There was NO second consideration of the case. Only rullings "we will not look into that".


User currently offlineDvk From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1058 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2130 times:

Yes, there are ways to stop that. It's called the appellate court, and it actually has quite a good record of preventing or correcting abuses in the judicial branch of government. The ones who are currently most often "out of mind" are predominantly in the legislative branch, e.g., DeLay, Frist, and the rest of those who propagated Congress's unjustifiable intrusion into the Schiavo case.


I'm not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information.
User currently offlineAC320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2122 times:

Quoting Danny (Reply 12):
So why all courts in Chiavo case refused to look into the matter of the case.

Probably because they saw no significant grounds to reexamine the case.


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8766 posts, RR: 42
Reply 15, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2120 times:

Quoting Danny (Reply 12):
Only rullings "we will not look into that".

OK, point taken. However, the judges stated with those rulings that the first ruling was legitimate.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40070 posts, RR: 74
Reply 16, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2120 times:

Danny:
Were you hoping Terry Shiavo would come back to life and say; "Those liberal Democrats tried to kill me!"?

Quoting TriStarEnvy (Reply 8):
Hell, it's like the OLD Republican Party was, when I cast my first vote, back in 1980. I think the rancor and animosity of the last two elections just have polarized us all, a little too much.

You played a part in getting that guy elected?
Shame on you!  Sad  ashamed 



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2117 times:

Really? So why all courts in Chiavo case refused to look into the matter of the case. There was NO second consideration of the case. Only rullings "we will not look into that".

They did.

After a decision is made by a lower court, it can then be appealed to a higher court (usually a Court of Appeals). This was done repeatedly. If all legal standards of review were met, a higher court will generally not review the case again, just for the hell of it.

There is a process here. You can't just keep appealing ad hoc, ad nauseum, and ad infinitum if you don't like the ruling you've received by the Court.


User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3516 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2110 times:

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 17):
After a decision is made by a lower court, it can then be appealed to a higher court (usually a Court of Appeals). This was done repeatedly. If all legal standards of review were met, a higher court will generally not review the case again

That is the whole point. Unlike is other democratic countries the US appeal is a fiction since appeal court does not reconsider a case.


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8766 posts, RR: 42
Reply 19, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2104 times:

I guess they only NOT reconsider it when they judge the first ruling legitimate?


Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3516 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2100 times:

How can the judge it without looking into the case???

User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2100 times:

That is the whole point. Unlike is other democratic countries the US appeal is a fiction since appeal court does not reconsider a case.

Rubbish.

Where do you conjur up this junk from? The butthole of Tom DeLay?

An appeals court reviews the case, its facts, the legal analysis used by the lower courts, and then applies the law as it deems fit.

Why else do you think that many appeals courts, including the Supreme Court, reverse decisions made by lower courts?


User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3516 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2093 times:

Yeaaaah, they carefully reconsidered Chiavo case within hour and a half.

User currently offlineAC320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2082 times:

Quoting Danny (Reply 22):
Yeaaaah, they carefully reconsidered Chiavo case within hour and a half

As far as I understand, court of appeals do not reconsider the entire case, but only arguments that there were errors in a trialÂ’s procedure or the judge's interpretation/application of the law. Therefore we can infer that the parents' attorneys were not able to convince the judges via their briefs that there were such problems in the case, and so the court refused to hear them.


User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5426 posts, RR: 52
Reply 24, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2076 times:

Quoting Danny (Reply 22):
Yeaaaah, they carefully reconsidered Chiavo case within hour and a half.

After which appeals attempt by the Schindlers? Appeal #5? If the facts of the matter didn't change between Appeal #1, which the Court heard and found no problems with the trial court decision, and Appeal #5,234,981 then gee, maybe the Court can reconsider the case in an hour in a half as they already heard it.



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
25 Phxairfan : "It's a whole different brand of conservative to which I, or any self respecting conservative, do not subscribe." That makes 4 of us, as I have recent
26 TriStarEnvy : Yes. But, I'm proud to say that even though I consider myself fairly middle of the road conservative, I would happily sit down with the "most out the
27 Aloges : TriStarEnvy, if I didn't already have you on "that list", you'd be going there. Nice to see that there are in fact people who don't let party politics
28 Post contains images Superfly : TriStarEnvy: I know your not from the crazy wing of the GOP. I was just giving you $h!t for voting for Reagan. R.I.P. Terry. It's too bad that her ill
29 Post contains images Mir : "The actions on the part of the Florida court and the U.S. Supreme Court are unconscionable," Sen. Rick Santorum (news, bio, voting record), R-Pa., sa
30 Post contains images Superfly : Mir: Excellent post! I agree with you 99%. However I'd take TriStarEnvy off that list. He is a smart independant minded conservative that express disa
31 Post contains images Mir : That's exactly the kind of person who I intended to be on the list. Most of the Republicans on here are intelligent people who just have different po
32 Post contains images KiwiNanday : Because Michael had that whole sanctity of marriage thing going for him! Remember, gay marraige would damage that, so you have to overrule it here to
33 TriStarEnvy : No argument w/most of that post Mir. I am sad for what my party has suddenly seemed to become. Thanks for the shout-out, 'Fly, I owe ya a beer.
34 TriStarEnvy : Thanks, Achim. And you already were on my list!
35 Jaysit : Well, come 2008, all this GOP divisiveness over Terry Schiavo will end. Some new paleolithic divisive social issue will be trotted out by the GOP in l
36 Post contains images Tom in NO : ...and no doubt continued Democratic party election ineptitude will lead to another Republican victory. Tom at MSY
37 Boeing7E7 : 1. You don't see the difference between taking the life of someone who has done no harm and someone who has harmed someone? 2. They only stepped in a
38 Falcon84 : In fairness, it's not just Republicans that are "out of line", as it were, in this instance. Jesse Jackson and Ralph Nadar have chimed in on behalf of
39 Mir : When the judges make decisions that you like, it's proper interpretation of the law. When they make decisions that you don't like, they're activists.
40 Boeing7E7 : So let me get this straight. Hearsay that a person wants to die should be taken over hearsay that they want to live? I hope you aren't on a table wit
41 Post contains images ATLhomeCMH : There was nothing further to look into...all legal efforts had already been exhausted, and any new justiciable information was not available to chang
42 Mir : When it comes from their legal guardian, yes. And it's not really just hearsay, it's testimony from him that Terri told him that she would not want t
43 Lowrider : While I do have a lot of sympathy for Terry's family and can't imagine what they are going through right now, I can't help but wonder how long it will
44 ATLhomeCMH : Where are you getting this from? Who said you're supposed to assume life? Your local pastor? And actually, your version of this is a rhetorical quest
45 Tbar220 : In this case, yes. Since the husband has the legal voice here, yes.
46 N229NW : Completely agree. Good arguments. There are so many things like the death penalty and Iraq that have already been pointed out here when it comes to t
47 Post contains links Tbar220 : Well today Bill Frist, leader of the Republicans in the Senate said that the courts in the Schiavo case acted appropriately and fairly. http://news.ya
48 SCCutler : Help me out here, homes, I can't find that purported law in the Texas Codes and Statutes. Favor us with a citation to the law, if you will. I'll gran
49 SCCutler : Only law *I* find remotely on-topic is this: TEXAS STATUTES AND CODES ANNOTATED BY LEXISNEXIS(R) *** THIS DOCUMENT IS CURRENT THROUGH ALL 2003 LEGISLA
50 Post contains links N229NW : SCCutler, FROM THE TEXAS HEALTH & SAFETY CODE: CHAPTER 166. ADVANCE DIRECTIVES See http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statu...ontent/htm/hs.002.00.000166.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Okay I Was Out Of Line... posted Tue Feb 26 2002 16:17:48 by GunFighter 6
Are The Bugs Out Of ITunes 7 Yet? posted Thu Sep 28 2006 05:12:47 by Da man
Names That Are Going / Have Gone Out Of Fashion posted Tue Jan 24 2006 20:55:24 by AerospaceFan
I’m A Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here posted Mon Nov 13 2006 22:04:14 by 9V
Launch A Firework Out Of Your Ass? posted Thu Nov 9 2006 15:11:32 by Kieron747
Where Are Some Of The Memorable People? posted Sun Nov 5 2006 09:10:56 by Shinkai
Why Democrats Are Confident Of Winning posted Thu Nov 2 2006 18:31:33 by UALPHLCS
Mafia Gangs Out Of Control In Naples... posted Wed Nov 1 2006 18:10:44 by Beaucaire
"Grey's Anatomy" Star Comes Out Of Closet posted Fri Oct 20 2006 18:59:53 by 727LOVER
British Army Chief Wants Out Of Iraq posted Fri Oct 13 2006 10:04:40 by Braybuddy