Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
John Paul II Was Not Embalmed  
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2461 times:

VATICAN CITY - Departing from tradition, Pope John Paul II was not embalmed, only "prepared" for viewing by hundreds of thousands of mourners, the Vatican said Tuesday.

Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls did not elaborate on the procedure, but an embalmer in Rome said it appeared John Paul's remains were only touched up with cosmetics.

Massimo Signoracci, whose family embalmed three other popes, said he could not be certain what had been done without examining the body.

http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews/pm3603_20050405.htm


Glad it's not hot in Rome right now!

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2445 times:

Hundreds of thousands of mourners prepared his body for viewing? Wow... must have been hard work.  Wink

(That first sentence is poorly written.)



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineSunking737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2040 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2436 times:

WOW and the Holy Father wont be buried until Friday.

Oh Boy.......



Just an MSPAVGEEK
User currently offline22right From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 420 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2418 times:

Sorry to be insenstive here, but isnt that kind of gross to keep a dead body around that long without necessary precautions to arrest the natural decomposition process?? What about the smell and other related results from decomposing flesh?

I have never quite understood the (predominantly Western/Christian?) practice of keeping dead bodies around for a week or more. In Hinduism they generally cremate the body within a couple of days at most (usually......though there may be exceptions for VIP types). I am not saying that Hinduism is better, I am just trying to understand the cultural (or other) reasons behind burying the dead so long after death.



"I never apologize! I am sorry, but that's the way it is!" - Homer Simpson
User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2412 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I think the premise of the thread is based on one persons stated opinion rather than a reliable press release from the Vatican.

I am fairly certain that the body was well prepared for the multiple day viewing.

This is somewhat morbidly gross.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5643 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2407 times:

I remember that when Pope Paul VI died in the late 1970's, the embalming didn't "take" too well and his body began to deteriorate visibly even before the end of the viewing period.


"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlineRedngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 44
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2390 times:

From the degree of cyanosis (blue color) apparent in high-quality photographs, I'd have to concur that he was at least not embalmed to what are considered *normal* standards -- that is, they didn't use pink embalming fluid to enhance his skin tone.


redngold



Up, up and away!
User currently offlineB4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2637 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2390 times:

Well, this is weird, because I've been looking @ the pictures on CNN and wondered IF PJ2 was embalmed!

I can't imagine that you can't get close enough to smell/notice. Maybe the Swiss gaurds and the individuals who do the prep from 2 AM to 5 AM or something like that.

On top of that, again, I'm not being insensitive, but St. Peter's has a peculiar smell as it is. There are many buried in the building. When I was there, I was awed by the architectual beauty of the facility - but didn't get that part of it all.



B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
User currently offlineQANTASforever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2331 times:

What I seriously don't understand is this whole "viewing of the body" thing - and not just with the pope, with anyone.

I much rather remember people when they were alive than when they are a corpse - I seriously am baffled why people feel the need to see a corpse.

QFF


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 968 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2323 times:

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 8):

I much rather remember people when they were alive than when they are a corpse - I seriously am baffled why people feel the need to see a corpse.

It frequently brings closure to people. Rather than seeing them in a state of pain and suffering, as we did with the pope for years, you see their body in a state of peace and serenity. It's also one last chance to see their physical self. The pope's last public apperance was waving from a window, not easy to say goodbye when that's the last time you see him then he's put in closed casket and buried.


User currently offlineCorey07850 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2527 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2245 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 9):

It frequently brings closure to people. Rather than seeing them in a state of pain and suffering, as we did with the pope for years, you see their body in a state of peace and serenity. It's also one last chance to see their physical self. The pope's last public apperance was waving from a window, not easy to say goodbye when that's the last time you see him then he's put in closed casket and buried.

Of course if they didn't have the viewing there will always be conspiracy theorists who will deny his death because they didn't have proof.  indifferent 


User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2213 times:

Quoting 22right (Reply 3):
I am just trying to understand the cultural (or other) reasons behind burying the dead so long after death.

Is just a tradition.

Quoting B4real (Reply 7):
St. Peter's has a peculiar smell as it is.

Did you use deodorant that day... (just kidding).


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13073 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2184 times:

In many religions, including Jewish and Islam, burial is to be by the next day, unless that day of obligation (Saturday for Jews, Friday for Islam or in both faiths other holy days in their calandars). There is no viewing but rather a time of up to a week for mourning and visits to the family to console them (by Jews, 'sitting shiva').
In Christian traditions, the passing of several days is to allow people to as noted above, to honor the deceased and their family and to allow for a revival of the person in the days before modern medicine and the person had gone into a coma and still alive. There is no doubt that in the case of the Pope or any Christian, it was also to prove the person was truly dead, and to publicly prove it.
The lack of 'embalment' may be a tradition. His skin and the outside of his body may have been treated with old formulas of oils and herbs to temporarly preserve it.


User currently offlineTheGov From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 414 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2164 times:

Just from looking at the various pictures, it was pretty clear to me that he was not embalmed. Oddly, we were discussing this very topic in the office today.


Always a pallbearer, never a corpse.
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2141 times:

Just from looking at the various pictures, it was pretty clear to me that he was not embalmed

Do you think they've used some alternate interim means by which to prevent decay of his remains at least until the viewing period is over?


User currently offlineFlybyguy From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1801 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2127 times:

Quoting TheGov (Reply 13):
Just from looking at the various pictures, it was pretty clear to me that he was not embalmed. Oddly, we were discussing this very topic in the office today.

Shivers.... that's pretty gross. What is the Vatican thinking? Do they want him to start turning weird colors in front of millions. If they keep maintaining him with just makeup, he'll have makeup 1/4 inch thick by Friday and look all putrid. That isn't a dignified death at all. I would think that they would at least keep the body in a temperature controlled glass coffin.

Those pictures on the front of newspapers better stop coming, I don't want to see the Pope decaying over a week, my stomach can't take it.



"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
User currently offlineSFOMEX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2121 times:

Actually, they are going to cover his face during the funeral Mass this Friday. When I heard this I thought it was odd, but now it makes sense.

I wonder why he wasn't embalmed.


User currently offlineSK A340 From Sweden, joined Mar 2000, 845 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2098 times:

Dagens Nyheter, a Swedish daily, wrote that popes haven't been embalmed since the beginning of the 20th century. Formaldehyde is injected in the body.

/Micke


User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5694 posts, RR: 18
Reply 18, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2086 times:

I don't want to be disrespectuful, however: Have you heard about the request that came from Poland asking for JPII's heart to be buried in his home country since his body will remain in Vatican? I find this just morbid and I always thought "R.I.P." stood for "Rest in Peace" not "Rest in Piece(s)"  no 

User currently offlineTanyaluvs2fly From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 351 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2077 times:

Well on cnn they were stating that it was amazing to see him laid in state so soon, usually they said its a full day after someone passes that you see them, but they said it was not even 16 hrs after death and they had him for people to view. hummm interesting


Live, Laugh, Love!
User currently offlineBA380 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 1466 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2070 times:

John XXIII is in a glass coffin in the Vatican. Looks pretty pale and waxy, but still. How is that possible if he is not embalmed?


cabin crew: doors to automatic and cross-check...
User currently offlineGdabski From Poland, joined Oct 2001, 423 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2042 times:

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 18):
Have you heard about the request that came from Poland asking for JPII's heart to be buried in his home country since his body will remain in Vatican?

The word request is too strong here. The people were more like wondering if John Paul II left a wish to have his heart buried in Poland as was the case with Chopin, for instance.

/Gdabski


User currently offlineB4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2637 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1954 times:

Quoting BA380 (Reply 20):
John XXIII is in a glass coffin in the Vatican. Looks pretty pale and waxy, but still. How is that possible if he is not embalmed

Is he the one with the silver shield over his face?



B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1945 times:

Quoting Gdabski (Reply 21):
Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 18):
Have you heard about the request that came from Poland asking for JPII's heart to be buried in his home country since his body will remain in Vatican

This is not all that unusual, ask any Austrian were the Hearts of the Hapsburgs are, or the hearts of the French Monarchy....they are not with their former owners, but kept in separate vaults.


User currently offlinePSAjet17 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 330 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1940 times:

Quoting BA380 (Reply 20):
John XXIII is in a glass coffin in the Vatican. Looks pretty pale and waxy

I read somewhere that there is a wax mask over the face of John XXIII. He was embalmed when he died in 1963. When they removed him in 2000 to move the body new location, officials were amazed at how well the body looked.

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 16):
Actually, they are going to cover his face during the funeral Mass this Friday

Part of the traditions for the burial of a Pope is that his face is covered with a white silk cloth. His body will be in a simple wooden casket for the Funeral Mass on Friday. The coffin will be brought into St. Peters after the Mass and placed into a second coffin made of lead, which is hermetically sealed. Then it is placed into a third coffin made of wood and placed in the marble crypt in the lower levels of St. Peters Basilica.


25 Highpeaklad : According to The Guardian newspaper this week, a Pope who died in the '50s, his nose went black and fell off before his funeral. And a long time ago (
26 Santosdumont : Guess it just goes to prove the Biblical refrain that we are dust and to dust we shall return -- no matter how good an elbalmer you get.
27 Scbriml : Holy exploding Popes Batman!
28 JGPH1A : Euww ! Maybe they just used clingfilm.
29 MD11Engineer : Did you guys see the platform he was laid out on? I suspect that beneath the fabric under it was a cooling plant and the body was being kept cooled do
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
One Year Without His Holiness John Paul II posted Sat Apr 1 2006 21:29:01 by SFOMEX
Pope John Paul II - The Superhero Comic. posted Thu Apr 7 2005 14:39:01 by Thom@s
"This Message Was Not Written" posted Sun Aug 6 2006 07:08:15 by AerospaceFan
New Orleans, Gulf Coast Was Not Ready. posted Wed Aug 31 2005 02:37:01 by FlyMIA
Grenade Thrown At Bush Was Not A Dummy posted Wed May 18 2005 16:59:47 by Falcon84
Why India's N Tests In 1998 Was Not Forseen posted Thu Feb 10 2005 13:14:11 by HAWK21M
WW2...In Case Russia Was Not Invaded. posted Thu Feb 12 2004 12:42:43 by HAWK21M
What If The U.S. Was Not A Superpower? posted Fri Oct 3 2003 09:32:54 by Cfalk
Albert Einstein Was Not A God, Okay? posted Thu Mar 7 2002 20:28:05 by Lehpron
'We Will Not Be Silent' T-shirt, JetBlue Saga II posted Sat Sep 2 2006 10:31:33 by Bravo45