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Mac System Vs. Windows  
User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1981 times:

Hello all,

Yes, yet another thread from me .

At the moment I am close to buy a new notebook and I really consider an Apple iBook (14").

Many people told me (here on the forums and when I talked personally to friends/colleagues/etc.) that Mac's are far better than regular (Window's based) computers.

At the moment I am sick of the following:

In the last hour I got 3 pop ups like:

(quick translation)

  • "Media Player caused an error in unknown, unknown must be shut down, you want to send a report"


  • "Unknown caused an error in WinMx, WinMx must be shut down"


  • WordPad caused an error......


  • Furthermore, when I clicked on more than four or five PDF documents today (and in the past), my PC shut down itself.

    Sorry, but I am sick of this, it happens not the first time and it is annoying!

    Is the Apple system better and more stable? If yes, I will really consider to buy an Apple iBook!

    Another question, are Apple notebooks as quiet as Intel Centrino notebooks or are they as annoying as Pentium IV Mobils or Celeron's? One member already told me that they are very quiet but I want to hear a few more opinions from Mac & other users.

    Are Macs compatible to everything? Is Safari working like Internet Explorer here on the forums and on all other internet sites?

    Anything what is different with a Mac?

    Thanks for your replies/tips!

    Patrick

    Edit: Will I get MS Word/Office for free when I buy a Mac?

    [Edited 2005-04-08 03:06:55]

    95 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
     
    User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20487 posts, RR: 62
    Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1971 times:

    Have you ever stopped by this site?

    http://www.apple.com/switch/



    International Homo of Mystery
    User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
    Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1967 times:

    Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 1):
    Have you ever stopped by this site?

    http://www.apple.com/switch/

    No, because I usually prefer the Apple websites in German language. Thanks a lot for this link, I will read it now!

    Any personal experience from people who prefer Apple/regular PC's?

    Patrick


    User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20487 posts, RR: 62
    Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1961 times:

    Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 2):
    Any personal experience from people who prefer Apple/regular PC's?

    Even though I own 3 Macs and a Dell, I'm hard pressed to tell you specific reasons why one is better than another, because I really can't find anything useful to do with my Dell. It sits there and sends/receives faxes, and I stuck an extra hard drive in it to host my shared internal iTunes music files and process video files. Yes, Macs are supposed to be "better" doing a/v work than a Winbox, but in my experience, an idle Winbox doing nothing other than gnawing on video bits, then transferring it across my network to do the creative part, works out better for me, since it keeps the CPUs in the Macs freed up.

    It really all boils down to what you want to do with your computer. Any advice offered without knowing what that is is just stabbing in the dark.



    International Homo of Mystery
    User currently offlineHawaiian717 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3190 posts, RR: 7
    Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1952 times:

    Quoting Sabena332 (Thread starter):
    Is the Apple system better and more stable?

    Definitely more stable. Better is a more subjective issue, but count me among those who would say "Yes."

    The Safari browser is pretty good, though for a few reasons, I prefer Mozilla Firefox, which works virtually the same as its Windows counterpart. It's extremely rare that I run into a web site that doesn't work properly with Firefox.

    I don't have much to compare it to noise-wise, but I find my 2001-era iBook to be sufficiently quiet. It's certainly much lighter and smaller than many PC notebooks I've seen (such as the Dell Inspiron line; I'm more impressed with their Latitude series in the size department).

    You will not get Office for free. You'll get a "Test Drive" version, along with AppleWorks, an integrated suite that is roughly comparable to Microsoft Works. It handles Word files, but if you'll have to deal with them on a regular basis, you'll probably be happier if you just purchase Microsoft Office outright.

    Like AeroWesty said, the more we know about the kinds of things you do (or want to do) with your computer, the more advice we can offer.

    David / ABQ


    User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13985 posts, RR: 62
    Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1950 times:

    Waiting for Klaus to show up! Big grin

    Jan


    User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
    Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1942 times:

    I just bought an Apple....let's just say, "Once you go Mac, you never go bac!"

    UAL


    User currently offline174thfwff From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
    Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1937 times:

    Listen,
    You don't want the iBook 14''. The resolution is the same for the 12'' and 14'', and that's not a good thing. Look at the 12'' iBook, 12'' Powerbook, but the 14'' iBook is a waste because of the screen.
    -JP


    User currently offlineJfkaua From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1000 posts, RR: 3
    Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1925 times:

    Quoting Sabena332 (Thread starter):

    # "Unknown caused an error in WinMx, WinMx must be shut down"

    Windows basically is not immune to the bad apple theory. There are so many more programs built for windows that your going to have some bad apples somewhere. Now one could say you wouldn't get this error on an apple... true.. but only because you cant run winmx on an apple  Smile . If your going to use your pc to listen to music check your email and web surf, sure get an apple. If you want more flexability and be in control more get a pc... thats what it boils down to...

    With the mac OS its greatest strength, its ease of use, is also its greatest weakness in that it doesnt have as much versability.

    I have been running the same 3 ghz P4 system I got for a total of 800 bucks for over a year and it is still in tip top shape. I bought a top of the line tower for 800 bucks when you could barely buy the cheapest mac for that. I have maintained the OS well and it still has amazing speed.

    Once a week ill take 15 or 20 mins out to clean everything up. Clean the desktop, run adaware, a virus program, maybe clean up the registry a bit. Its all very simple stuff and my 800 dollar pc is still running top of the line.


    User currently offlineContnlEliteCMH From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1458 posts, RR: 44
    Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1914 times:

    Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 3):
    Even though I own 3 Macs and a Dell, I'm hard pressed to tell you specific reasons why one is better than another, because I really can't find anything useful to do with my Dell. It sits there and sends/receives faxes, and I stuck an extra hard drive in it to host my shared internal iTunes music files and process video files. Yes, Macs are supposed to be "better" doing a/v work than a Winbox, but in my experience, an idle Winbox doing nothing other than gnawing on video bits, then transferring it across my network to do the creative part, works out better for me, since it keeps the CPUs in the Macs freed up.

    It really all boils down to what you want to do with your computer. Any advice offered without knowing what that is is just stabbing in the dark.

    Well, I'll chime in from the other side. I hold multiple Microsoft certifications, so I have no Macs. I own several Windows PC's (surprise!), but I'll be the first to admit there won't be much difference.

    Seemingly, the Macintosh has become the new Amiga -- really good for video and audio editing, graphics, etc.

    As for total power, there won't be much difference either. In fact, you might get more total power with the Wintel platform. My latest purchase was an HP zd7000, fully loaded: P4 3.4 GHz HT, 2 GB RAM, the best video card, and 7200 RPM hard drive. The thing is a ROCKETSHIP. If you examine supercomputer lists, that laptop has more computing power than supercomputers did ten or eleven years ago.

    Stability is an interesting thing. In 1989, I took four quarters of calculus at Ohio State on a Mac IIcx. It was light-years ahead of its PC counterparts. But man, was it unstable. If you blinked at it wrong it crashed. It ate my first quarter final exam three times. But things have matured since then, so I doubt either platform will be substantially more unstable than the other.

    Stability is usually an issue of software you have installed on the O/S. There is so much software available for the PC (far more than for the Mac) that you simply can't predict what is going to happen with any possible combination. Microsoft's .NET will greatly reduce this, but it will be a while before a majority of apps use the .NET platform and avoid DLL hell.

    My Windows machines are very, very stable. How stable? I had *never* had a problem with Windows 2000 and later until a few months ago when my first laptop (running XP Home) had a registry hiccup. It was easily repaired; no reinstall was necessary.

    Want something to do with your idle processors? Join distributed computing projects! Several now use a common client called BOINC. My favorite is ClimatePrediction. http://www.ClimatePrediction.net. This project runs on all four of my machines, nearly 100% of the time, including my laptops. (It's running right now on the very machine used to compose this message.) In six months I've powered my way into the top 600 users globally, and usually move about eight places per day up on the list.

    How's this for stability? On October 30, 2004 I started crunching CPDN on my Dell Poweredge 400SC at home. Checking the CPDN website this evening, I see I have 99.876% uptime since that date. The figure would be higher, but I'm on the road five nights a week, and my house lost power in the middle of one week. That's a Windows 2000 server, running at 100% processor utilization day and night. CPDN is heavy computing, consisting of roughly 1/2 million lines of FORTRAN code. In other words, it uses all the FLOP capabilities of the modern microprocessor.

    To put the power discussion in perspective: my zd7000 (I only own HP/Compaq laptops; they're heavy, noisy, and hot, but they're the feature-for-price leader and they're battle tanks) with hyperthreading enabled will crunch *two* CPDN work units faster than the other laptop (P4 2.66 GHz) can crunch one. I'll put that monster up against a Mac anyday for raw computing power.

    Buy whatever you will make you happy. You want a Mac? Get one! You want a PC? Get one!



    Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
    User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20487 posts, RR: 62
    Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1912 times:

    Quoting Jfkaua (Reply 8):
    If you want more flexability and be in control more get a pc

    Hrm, I'm not sure if I agree with that statement since the Mac OS is based upon Linux. Could you explain a bit which features you feel give greater flexibility and control on a Winbox?

    And I don't mean to gloat, just to state, there aren't any adware or spyware apps for Mac that I know of, since we don't get infected by such things. The last real virus for the Mac I ran across was in 1987. I leave one of my Macs on 24/7, and when I opened up Windows access to it from the 'net, I found an IP address trying to break into it within 15 minutes. I let it run its attack app for 2 weeks before I finally blocked it. It never broke in.



    International Homo of Mystery
    User currently offlineContnlEliteCMH From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1458 posts, RR: 44
    Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1899 times:

    Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 10):
    Hrm, I'm not sure if I agree with that statement since the Mac OS is based upon Linux. Could you explain a bit which features you feel give greater flexibility and control on a Winbox?

    Neither give increased stability, really. While the Mac O/S is based on Linux, it's not Linux. Even if it were, I'm not sure that really matters. Eventually people will be forced to realize that O/S's are commodity items. As one of the most mature software items on a computer, they are usually not the cause of most problems experienced by users.

    For example, I've lots of people who are *sure* that Linux is more secure than Windows. It's practically dogma for some. And yet, when pressed, nearly none of them can tell you *why* it's supposedly more secure. They can't even tell you at which layer most security vulnerabilities exist, or how they are countered. And yet, they are sure.

    A recent survey released by the Yankee Group showed that businesses don't really distinguish between Linux and Windows -- for anything. A vast majority of the respondents said that the cost of their Linux platforms is no lower than their Windows platforms.

    But it gets more interesting. Most of them claimed they used Windows because Visual Studio is so stinkin' good, and getting even better. You can develop applications very, very fast on the .NET platform. For me, programming is a new pursuit (I've been doing data) and I am astounded at how quickly a novice like me can develop secure, well-written code. It's a far cry from my college days writing numerical analysis programs in FORTRAN.

    Finally, the security issue: Windows was rated nearly as highly on security as Linux, a shocking closure of a gap which was much larger just a short time ago. This is happening for several reasons:

    (1) Microsoft's systematic approach to fixing security flaws inspires a great deal of confidence. Fact: Microsoft patches a higher percentage of its known flaws than any other manufacturer.
    (2) Microsoft's emerging security tools make it easier and easier to patch individual machines, and machines across the enterprise. The same set of tools are making it easier to scan the network and find flaws.
    (3) Microsoft's focus on secure code writing has really helped Windows and it's other retail products, like Office. A secure O/S is useless if you write apps which can easily be hacked.
    (4) .NET enforces best practices for writing secure code. It reduces one variable in the security equation -- developer ineptitude. That means that you can have confidence in the code you write for your Windows platforms.

    You may take what I'm about to say as my opinion, and only my opinion. I think that the day approaches quickly when security (as a perceived deficit) will vanish for the Windows platform. In fact, the factors above lead me to believe that they will eventually not only be more secure, but just plain secure.

    I love to chat with Microsoft-haters. Their attitude is pathological, and usually devoid of reason. I can always stop them with a single question: What must Microsoft provide for these "issues" to be eliminated, and are you willing to give them due credit if they fulfill your goals?"



    Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
    User currently offlineLAS757300 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 261 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1896 times:

    Yes, they are more stable. I've had mine since December and its Wunderschön! Never had any problems, no issues with Safari, and no software conflicts. Mein Apple Komputer gefält mir!


    KMSP
    User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20487 posts, RR: 62
    Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1896 times:

    Quoting ContnlEliteCMH (Reply 11):
    I love to chat with Microsoft-haters. Their attitude is pathological, and usually devoid of reason.

    LOL, well I hope you don't take me for one. The questions I've asked are indicative of what's euphamistically known around these parts as "an open mind". (And if you re-read my post, I definately said the Mac OS was "based on Linux" and made no other claims other than to relate my personal experience with it, which the OP had asked us to do.)



    International Homo of Mystery
    User currently offlineContnlEliteCMH From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1458 posts, RR: 44
    Reply 14, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1894 times:

    Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 13):
    LOL, well I hope you don't take me for one. The questions I've asked are indicative of what's euphamistically known around these parts as "an open mind". (And if you re-read my post, I definately said the Mac OS was "based on Linux" and made no other claims other than to relate my personal experience with it, which the OP had asked us to do.)

    Oh, not at all! There was nothing at all in your post that was unreasonable. Frankly, I doubt anybody is really in a position to judge the relative stability of either platform. And I think it's a moot point. On the whole, they are both pretty stable, and getting more stable. That's what happens when companies with smart people try to improve their products, and I think that accurately describes both Apple and Microsoft.



    Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
    User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20487 posts, RR: 62
    Reply 15, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1888 times:

    OK then, out of my post you quoted, I asked where the poster saw greater flexibility and control with the Windows platform. You didn't address either issue. Would you like to now?  Smile


    International Homo of Mystery
    User currently offlineContnlEliteCMH From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1458 posts, RR: 44
    Reply 16, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1880 times:

    Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 15):
    OK then, out of my post you quoted, I asked where the poster saw greater flexibility and control with the Windows platform. You didn't address either issue. Would you like to now?

    Sure. He won't. Since we are talking strictly about *desktop* usage, we can define some very basic categories for flexibility and control:

    (1) Video and audio. Pretty much the same on both. Video and audio are becoming commodities.

    (2) Desktop configuration. Again, the same on both. You can set up multiple independent (and simultaneous) users on a Windows XP machine; I would assume you can do the same on a Mac.

    (3) System control. Pretty much the same. It's not like the vast majority of Mac users want to control threading, disk access times and methods, or memory allocation. Neither do Windows users. This is the point of an operating system: it abstracts you from the hardware, and acts as a go-between for what you want to do, and the way the hardware must do it.

    I definitely disagree that Windows offers more flexibility and control, because I doubt that there's a serious difference between either. (Now, if we're gong to talk about servers or coding, the discussion will change *quite* a bit.)O/S's are becoming like cars. Does Honda offer more flexibility and control than Chevy? Nope.

    In fact, I'll ratchet up the rhetoric a little. I believe strongly that any given task should be performed consistently regardless of the specific application. For example, when you want to save a file in Word, or in Windows Media Player, or in a graphic design application, you should be able to do it the exact same way, all the time. My point here is that "control" is usually a word substituted for "consistency" and "works well" by people who don't trust what other people are doing. You don't need "flexibility and control" if the people who write the software underneath are doing their job well.

    Like I said, our thread starter should buy whatever will make him happy.



    Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
    User currently offlineF9Widebody From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1604 posts, RR: 10
    Reply 17, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1873 times:

    Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 2):
    No, because I usually prefer the Apple websites in German language. Thanks a lot for this link, I will read it now!

    Here's the same site. In German

    http://www.apple.com/de/switch/

    I agree with most of the above posters. Apple is more stable, and has a "wow" factor that PC's don't. It remains incredibly functional while looking good. I've been a PC guy all my life, I've built them, and I would like to think that I am pretty advanced when it comes to a technical problem, and I just ordered my first mac.

    Regards



    YES URLS in signature!!!
    User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20487 posts, RR: 62
    Reply 18, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1873 times:

    Well I pretty much agree with you on that, which is why I asked where the flexibility and control issue came up.

    My experience has been that the Mac and a Wintel box have intuitive differences (that I pick up on quickly when using side-by-side doing the same tasks).

    I find I have more "control" over the entire system, more configuration options, more flexibility on how I use it than on a Windows machine. That could be due to familiarity, however, when I try to do some of the same things on the Winbox, it either doesn't have that feature or doesn't do it nearly as well--and I'm not talking about the differences in Word for PC vs. Word for Mac, etc., I'm talking about master configurations, networking issues, general access, etc.

    I still have an open mind about what Windows can do, however, I don't always think it's a "buy whatever will make you happy" situation until one knows what will make a person happy. That's why I solicited from Patrick how he'll be using his machine.

    Cheers.



    International Homo of Mystery
    User currently offlineContnlEliteCMH From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1458 posts, RR: 44
    Reply 19, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1867 times:

    Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 18):
    I'm talking about master configurations, networking issues, general access, etc.

    Got some examples? I'd love to hear them, since I'm not a Mac user.



    Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
    User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20487 posts, RR: 62
    Reply 20, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1861 times:

    Quoting ContnlEliteCMH (Reply 19):
    Got some examples?

    Networking is one. My lord, I struggled for 6 months to use the Dell as a general server/print server to take that load off one of my Macs, and everything I wanted to do wasn't available in XP Home, I'd have to upgrade to XP Pro. Windows wants to default to setting everything up via wizards, that don't always lend themselves to plugging in what you want to do and going on about your business. Forget about reliably connecting to a WebDAV. Just forget about it, LOL.

    There's a little-known setting in the Mac OS that let's you mimic the workgroup for Windows, and you instantly have access to any PC workgroup you want, in addition to servers on the Macs.

    Want to share a printer? All the printers on the network automatically appear in the print dialog box on a Mac. No configuration needed. Rendezvous on the Mac is something that Windows can only dream about.

    Want to video conference? I can do it with all the built-in software I already have, and there are no burps or hangs in the system. I can even broadcast to others what's playing on my VCR or what I'm watching on TV.

    Want to burn a disc? On the Mac, I can share the DVD/CD burner on another machine. One just sends an image file over the network to the other machine, and then it sits there and burns uninterruped without anything else I'm doing interferring with it. The Dell doesn't even see the burner on the Mac, let alone burn to it.

    Want to read/write e-mail? With the built-in Mail.app, I can simultaneously connect to IMAP, POP *and* AOL e-mail.

    Want to keep your contacts and bookmarks synchronized and backed up? iSync will store all the latest info from Safari and iCal and update each machine either manually or every hour.

    Want to watch a DVD? The Mac has built-in DVD reading software. I don't have to go spend $30 on an app just to play DVDs.

    Want to click on a window in another app? Just click on it. You can see them on a Mac. Windows has that crazy thing where it puts all the windows for each app in it's own master window. Drives me up the freakin' wall.

    I could go on and on and on.  Smile What the PC does well, is crunch data. I can send video files over to it, or load them directly, and it will sit there and munch right through them in no time. It's impressive. But for anything else I want to do, it takes moving mountains to have an inferior computing experience.

    But that's just my personal experience, having given the Dell 3 years to do something as good or better than any of my Macs. Of course, YMMV.  Smile



    International Homo of Mystery
    User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7949 posts, RR: 12
    Reply 21, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1827 times:

    Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 20):
    Want to watch a DVD? The Mac has built-in DVD reading software. I don't have to go spend $30 on an app just to play DVDs.

    Neither did I have to. And the built-in application on my PC works MUCH better than that on my Mac.

    Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 20):
    Want to click on a window in another app? Just click on it. You can see them on a Mac.

    Which drives ME crazy. I'd like to see the application I'm working with - and nothing else. If you don't need it, don't show it. Yeah, I know it's "doable" on a Mac as well.

    Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 20):
    Windows has that crazy thing where it puts all the windows for each app in it's own master window.

    Sorry? Wasn't that a "feature" (burden) of Win 3.1/3.11?

    Yesterday evening, I needed to do some work on my Mac and launched Flash which caused a system crash. Tried again and again and again, deleted the prefs, searched the hard drive for damaged spots - and finally reinstalled Flash.

    A colleague of mine (and a long time Mac evangelist) ordered a new titanium Powerbook plus a "free external hard drive" - which arrived MONTHS later. In the meantime (the time between delivery of the Powerbook and the external hard drive) she had to return the Powerbook twice, because MacOS X shut down for whatever ominous reason and because the processor run hot.

    The max. screen resolution of iBooks is a joke - at least if you plan to plug in an external monitor.

    Know a company with a service far worse than Deutsche Telekom? Right, it's Apple - as it has always been.

    Copy some files from a PC formatted disk, such as a Zip-Disk and the Macintosh will capitalize most of the filenames. Bad luck if those files were part of a website.

    Flash for Macintosh is notoriously slow and buggy, Authorware is nonexistent. Adobe and Macromedia have always been strong supporters of the Mac platform - and even they had thinned out their Mac development division. Now their software for MacOS is either buggy, appears late - or doesn't appear at all.

    Is a PC better than a Mac? No, but a Windows PC can be as stable (depending on the number of games and downloaded crap you have installed, not available for Macs). In fact, Macs are great, but they are computers, meaning they WILL crash, they WILL drive you crazy, they WILL put you in an awkward position.

    Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 3):
    Yes, Macs are supposed to be "better" doing a/v work than a Winbox,

    Video: For beginners: Yes. For professionals: No. Multimedia (Flash, Director, Authorware, Dreamweaver): No. Audio: Yes, although I have heard Logic Pro became unreliable. Print: Yes

    Quoting UAL747 (Reply 6):
    I just bought an Apple....let's just say, "Once you go Mac, you never go bac!"

    Well, after years of working almost entirely on a Mac, I'm now back to using a PC most times.

    Consider buying a Powerbook (rather than an iBook), you won't be disappointed as long as you don't kid yourself.

    [Edited 2005-04-08 16:17:13]


    I support the right to arm bears
    User currently offlineHawaiian717 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3190 posts, RR: 7
    Reply 22, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1816 times:

    Oh man, lots of misinformation in this thread to correct...

    Mac OS X is not based on Linux. It is derived from FreeBSD, another open-source OS that isn't as well known by the general public.

    I actually agree with the comments that the relative stability of both OS's is similar. Classic Mac OS (OS 9 and before) is roughly comparable to the MS-DOS based Windows (up through ME). Mac OS X and Windows NT kernel (2000 and XP) are also about the same as far as stability goes. However, Windows falls apart much easier, especially with all the malware which can flood the system.

    Which brings me to the security argument. Windows is less secure than Linux or Mac OS X. Part of this is poor default configurations, which seem to be slowly improving with XP SP2 and Server 2003. But part of this is design flaws, particularly in applications that are too closely integrated with the core OS. Internet Explorer/ActiveX is the obvious example, as the various malware exploits are able to do far too much. No site on the internet should be able to just install stuff on your machine.

    Yes, you can have separate accounts for different users with Mac OS X, just like with Windows 2000 and XP.

    NoUFO, I'm curious about the DVD player thing. You said your computer has a built in DVD player that is better than the one included with OS X. Can Windows Media Player play DVDs? If so, why then did eMachines bother to include a bundle-licensed copy of PowerDVD with my PC? Being the bargain priced manufacturer that eMachines is, you'd think they wouldn't include something if they didn't have to cut costs. I asked because I haven't really tried, and I'm not really in the mood to turn the PC on to check.

    Putting windows for an application inside a single master window, which is called Multiple Document Interface is alive and well in the Windows world, and I've seen it with Linux apps as well (Adobe Reader comes to mind). It's virtually non-existent on Mac OS X. Ultimately it's a design decision, but it can take some getting used to if you're coming from Mac OS X and not used to seeing it. I think the most trouble I've had with MDI is from Access, where windows seemed to move around a lot with part of them moving outside the visible area. Worse though is the inconsistency, where some Windows apps use MDI while others use SDI, where each window in an application stands alone.

    Service worse that Deutsche Telekom? DT must be pretty good then, since Apple is usually rated to have among the best customer service by Consumer Reports -- not to mention having the least problems to begin with, especially compared to the big PC manufacturers (HP/Compaq, Gateway/eMachines, Dell, etc).

    I use a FAT32 formatted USB drive regularly with my Mac. All-caps filenames don't seem to be an issue, unless it came from a Linux machine that had the drive mounted with type msdos rather than vfat (mount -t msdos rather than mount -t vfat. I do recall this being an issue with older versions of Classic Mac OS. There are rumors that Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger) will even be able to write to NTFS disks, right now NTFS is read-only.

    There are reasons to get a 14" iBook over a 12" iBook. The processors are a bit faster. Also, even though the screen resolution is the same, some people might prefer everything on their screen to be a bit larger. I have a 17" LCD monitor at home, and a 19" LCD monitor at work, both run at 1280x1024, and I can see the difference.

    Video on Mac is only for beginners? Somebody better tell the people who make the NBC TV show Scrubs, since all the video work on that show is done on Macs with Apple software, Final Cut Pro. http://www.apple.com/pro/video/scrubs/

    Flash, Director, Authorware, Dreamweaver. Wrong on every count, though I'll give you half credit for Authorware (which needs Windows for creation, but playback can be done on Mac OS X). Flash, Director, and Dreamweaver all are available for Mac OS X.

    David / ABQ


    User currently offlineKilljoy From Finland, joined Dec 1999, 646 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 23, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1810 times:

    Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 10):
    Hrm, I'm not sure if I agree with that statement since the Mac OS is based upon Linux.

    OS X is based on FreeBSD and runs a kernel called Darwin.

    Quoting ContnlEliteCMH (Reply 11):
    (1) Microsoft's systematic approach to fixing security flaws inspires a great deal of confidence. Fact: Microsoft patches a higher percentage of its known flaws than any other manufacturer.
    (3) Microsoft's focus on secure code writing has really helped Windows and it's other retail products, like Office. A secure O/S is useless if you write apps which can easily be hacked.

    What do you mean by "manufacturer"? Security flaws in open source software are usually patched much faster. Plus, Microsoft's alleged new focus on security could not have helped those products yet, and the security principles used in .NET are not somehow unique to it. Expect improvements in Longhorn, if at all.

    Quoting ContnlEliteCMH (Reply 11):
    I love to chat with Microsoft-haters. Their attitude is pathological, and usually devoid of reason. I can always stop them with a single question: What must Microsoft provide for these "issues" to be eliminated, and are you willing to give them due credit if they fulfill your goals?"

    Microsoft must stop intentionally corrupting standards and promoting proprietary solutions. I don't give a rat's ass if anyone else uses Windows as long as my box running ObscureOS 0.7 can view webpages that aren't "optimized" for Internet Explorer, and as long as I can read and edit other people's wordprocessing documents without humongous problems.

    Is that too much to ask? Apparently it is, when Microsoft is involved. They must die.


    User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7949 posts, RR: 12
    Reply 24, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1796 times:

    Hawaiian717,

    Yes, Windows MediaPlayer can play DVDs (even in kiosk/fullscreen mode just hit Ctrl+Enter - or Alt+Enter - don't know for sure now) but I usually use InterVideo WinDVD, which came with my Siemens/Fujitsu and I didn't even have to install. The only exception is "Cidre House Rules", a DVD WinDVD fails to play.

    I would, however, suggest to make use of PowerDVD, since I dislike Windows' Media Player.

    Video for "beginners" is too strong, I confess. FinalCut is a software for professionals and ambitious non-professionals. It's Apple's response to Adobe's Premiere.
    However, I was more thinking of broadcast-oriented systems. As far as I know, they either use SGI's, stand-alone boxes or Windows NT.
    But ok, I take that back, although I'm afraid, Discreet and Avid will sooner or later cease to support MacOS.
    Professional 3D animation software for MacOS is already rare.

    As for Flash & Director: I have never claimed, Flash and Director weren't available for MacOS. Heck, what do you think I have running on my Mac? Flash and Director are among them, that's right. But I also use the versions for Windows and after 7 years as a professional producer, I can safely say the Windows versions work better.



    I support the right to arm bears
    25 ContnlEliteCMH : It *is* too much to ask. It's an absurd request. Let's cut the heart of the matter, which may be described as twofold: (1) Intellectual property righ
    26 Post contains images AeroWesty : Yes, but I'm also addressing an audience who can't tell the difference between a nonstop and a direct flight, so it's easier to say Linux, since it's
    27 Sabena332 : Thanks a lot for all these interesting facts, guys! I will go to the Mac shop tomorrow to have a look at an iMac and to to pester the shop assistant w
    28 Thomasphoto60 : Wise move. Over the past 20 or so years I have found that these Mac vs Windows battles are no more informative or useful than a Airbus vs Boeing thre
    29 Post contains images Klaus : MD11Engineer: Waiting for Klaus to show up! ...and finally here I am, always at your service! ContnlEliteCMH: Well, I'll chime in from the other side.
    30 Post contains links and images Hawaiian717 : No, but we do demand that I can fill up either a Ford or a Chevrolet at the same gas pump from Chevron. Imagine if Ford redesigned their cars so that
    31 Post contains images AeroWesty : :: sit back and munch popcorn :: Patrick - You will let us know what you buy this weekend, or if you don't buy anything, right?
    32 Sabena332 : I will buy nothing this weekend, just inform myself about iBooks, it can take a few weeks until I buy a new computer but of course I will let you kno
    33 Theredbaron : My are of expertise is Macintosh computers....I can get into a war or quite technical, but that is nosense, every system has its weakneses and strong
    34 Post contains links NoUFO : A screen resolution of 1024 x 768 isn't that great, either. I you can afford it, fork out some money and go for a Powerbook. http://www.mac-kauf.de/i
    35 AeroWesty : Hmm, when I go to the U.S. Apple Store online, a SuperDrive comes with the 14" iBook (the DVD-R/CD-RW unit) as a $200 upgrade over the base 14" model
    36 Post contains images Sabena332 : Sounds good! Sounds good! My girlfriend has an iPod, so, sounds good! I just saw the prices for the PowerBook, quite expensive but actually not relev
    37 Sabena332 : Whoa, whao, sorry! I didn't look at the shop, only at "technical fact sheet. Thanks for the tip! Patrick
    38 AeroWesty : I agree that a PowerBook is nicer, since it will let you extend your desktop onto a second monitor, not just mirror it. A PB will also give you more
    39 Klaus : A few points: • The new OS version 10.4 ("Tiger") is imminent. Make sure your dealer commits to providing you with the new version as soon as it bec
    40 AC320 : My father would be very wise not to ever say that to me, or a maxed-out Dual 2.5GHz PowerMac and 30" cinema display will give him a heart attack. Fed
    41 Post contains images Sabena332 : I don't want that my father will get a heart attack, so I will not exaggerate it and search for a rather cheap alternative.  That would be great Jus
    42 Post contains images NoUFO : It's the Spanish version then I suppose. Spain has completely different outlets, maybe even the voltage differs. So you'll need a new power pack and
    43 Post contains images Sabena332 : Ok, let's forget my idea. Another good argument to buy in Germany Patrick
    44 Post contains images NoUFO : Oh, and you'll need a new keyboard as well. In other words: Forget it.
    45 Post contains images Sabena332 : Yes, it was a stupid idea, actually I am glad that I can help the German economy, even when it is more expensive here Patrick
    46 Klaus : The powerpacks are universal; You´d only need a new cable for different countries. To the prices: In many cases, the difference is due to different t
    47 Post contains links ContnlEliteCMH : Nice try. Really. (Applause.) You can always tell the people for whom this is not a debate, but religious dogma: they go straight for the person, not
    48 ContnlEliteCMH : Let's assume that everything you say is true. I have a couple of questions. First, if Ford put a proprietary fuel filler nozzle on their cars, isn't
    49 Bezoar : I've been a Mac man since '91, but have also used Windows. I have three Macs and one Dell. I find the Macs much easier to use, easier to maintain, eas
    50 Thomasphoto60 : Whoa, whoa, whoa........hold on there chief. I don't know how you were able to link that quote into my remarks, but I never made that statement. Pleas
    51 Post contains images ContnlEliteCMH : Sorry. I used the "Quote selected text" feature, and that's what it posted. When I proofed it, I thought it looked a little funny, but I wasn't payin
    52 ContnlEliteCMH : And benefits, as we will all agree, are personal. You use Macs because that's what you like. They make you happy. I have very fond memories of those
    53 Post contains images Thomasphoto60 : No prob. Thomas
    54 Killjoy : ContnlEliteCMH, wtf are you ranting about in your reply to my post? How are IP issues related to interoperability? Nevertheless, I shall reply to your
    55 Killjoy : Damnit, that means I made a mistake as well. I always assumed the kernel itself was called Darwin too, since uname -a says"Darwin 7.8.0 HOSTNAME Darw
    56 Hawaiian717 : Or maybe because it was the web page designer used FrontPage and didn't know any better. I hope the product has improved by now, but a few years ago
    57 Post contains images Klaus : ContnlEliteCMH: Nice try. Really. (Applause.) You can always tell the people for whom this is not a debate, but religious dogma: they go straight for
    58 Jfkaua : First off its more proper to say the MAC OS is Unix based, not linux based. I use a G4 imac, linux and windows box everyday.. and they both have ther
    59 ContnlEliteCMH : Within the context of the original poster's message, I concede this point. However, this area is very important and should not be blithely glossed ov
    60 ContnlEliteCMH : BTW, I just want to say that I am truly enjoying this thread. I find it very insightful on many facets.
    61 Killjoy : It's a cultural difference. On Windows your solution is usually the best one, but on FreeBSD, I would add an audio player package from the ports coll
    62 Post contains images AeroWesty : You are correct, and I usually do say Unix, but had Linux on my brain since a friend is gnashing his teeth over a Linux install and that's what my fi
    63 Post contains images Gigneil : I still wouldn't say Unix. UNIX is a registered trademark of SCO and only System V is technically UNIX. N
    64 Post contains images Klaus : Klaus: Corporate application environments supported by large IT departments are a very specific area which cannot be used for extrapolation to other a
    65 ContnlEliteCMH : Ah! Now we understand each other perfectly. If I have to decide for a product, I choose the one made by people who are obsessed with market and retur
    66 Post contains images Jfkaua : sorry all you pc lovers.. but macs are better because they come with those nifty little handles you can use to throw it off the top of your office bui
    67 Post contains images Klaus : Jfkaua: sorry all you pc lovers.. but macs are better because they come with those nifty little handles you can use to throw it off the top of your of
    68 Post contains images Jfkaua : kind of off topic but we did throw some macs off of the second floor of the school.. old powermacs though so no handle... those old green imacs should
    69 Bhill : I think the issues with stability are being answered rather unfairly. Keep in mind that Apple is a closed system, it controls the computer AND the OS.
    70 ContnlEliteCMH : Care to provide any details? I don't think this debate has been unfair at all.
    71 Klaus : Bhill: I think the issues with stability are being answered rather unfairly. Keep in mind that Apple is a closed system, it controls the computer AND
    72 Post contains images AC320 : Well count me as a happy convert. My new PowerBook was sitting with the secretary when I got to the office today. Once I got it out of the box, I was
    73 Post contains images Sabena332 : I am glad that you like your new Powerbook! Patrick
    74 Post contains links Klaus : Just for information: Apple has announced that MacOS 10.4 "Tiger" will be shipped with all Macs starting April 29th; All Macs purchased since the 12th
    75 AC320 : Thank G-d I signed up for a developer account then, I think I should expect Tiger in the mail sometime over the next couple of weeks. So I'm going int
    76 Post contains images Klaus : Good to see you´re comfortable! I agree, the Dock plus Expose provide a huge advantage in usability. Tip: Document windows often have a "proxy icon"
    77 Gigneil : Take it from a die-hard Apple fan, they don't compare. iWork is a waste of your time. N
    78 Post contains images Killjoy : "Thank you for your order dated 14-APR-2005, which Apple has received at the Apple Store." Can't wait to get my hands on it! (btw, iWork doesn't need
    79 Sabena332 : Justin, I am glad that you like your new Mac! Allow me some questions since I am still very undecided, So it is not difficult to use OS when you only
    80 SE210Caravelle : It's like comparing a Ferrari to a Ford! Get a Mac and you'll never go back!
    81 AC320 : Well I do have some experience with Apple's older OS', being a moderate mac user during school in the 90's, then using Macs during my newspaper work
    82 NoUFO : Patrick, Noise shouldn't be the problem that keeps you from buying a Macintosh. They all get louder the older the computer gets. Especially Powerbooks
    83 Post contains images Sabena332 : Thanks for this first hand experience, very interesting! I guess I will go for the 12" iBook (with a 60GB hard disk, 512MB working memory and the Blue
    84 NoUFO : Powerbooks are actually made of Titanium.
    85 Post contains images AC320 : Well here she is: Sorry for the poor quality, but a new digital camera is next on my list after I sell a kidney to pay off the computer. You can see i
    86 AC320 : From Apple.com: The sleek exterior is as stunning as ever. The 15-inch PowerBook G4 comes with all the refinements and esthetic touches that make it
    87 Sabena332 : NoUfo, sorry, it seems that we wrote and posted our replies at the same time, I didn't saw yours before. Are iBooks as good as Powerbooks? Actually I
    88 NoUFO : AC320, I stand corrected, sorry. I thought it was titanium. Patrick, Yeah, this always happens to me. The Powerbook is better, but in your case, an iB
    89 Post contains images Sabena332 : I mostly use MS office and internet but I also want to watch DVD's and listen to mp3's (50% at home and 50% "on the road"). I need a very light and s
    90 NoUFO : If you want to burn CDs both systems can read, make sure, you choose either ISO mode (does only support 8+3 names like myFile.doc) or burn a hybrid C
    91 Post contains images NoUFO : Dang ... again. In this case the 12'' iBook is ideal.
    92 Post contains images Sabena332 : Damn ...... I hope I will wake up early enough tomorrow to make it to the Mac Shop and to have a look at these iBooks by myself (I was too late last
    93 Sabena332 : By the way: Thank you very much for all the great information! It is very helpful for me and I appreciate it very much! Patrick
    94 Klaus : Apple is expected to present some new hardware in the coming week; I´m not sure if the iBook is scheduled for a "freshup" right now, but you may want
    95 Sabena332 : Sounds perfect, I want to wait anyway before I buy a new notebook. I really hope that the iBook will get more features or that they lower the price a
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