Gkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24627 posts, RR: 58 Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 950 times:
Indeed the booing during the minutes silence was disgusting, but wasnt unexpected. No minutes silence should have been observed.
The flare hitting Dido was truly shokcing though
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
EGGD From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 12426 posts, RR: 40 Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 945 times:
Nobody ever said it was a game of high class. Mostly the sport is traditional a working class game, as apposed to rugby which was more for the public school boys. It's not a gentlemans game like Cricket, it's football and it appeals to all aspects of society, so at a football match you get a broad spectrum of people. Naturally in that spectrum you have trouble makers and this is where the trouble in the sport is inherent from.
RJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 939 times:
The Pope loved football and used to be a very good goal keeper.
You can't blame all this stuff on the sport though. More the minority % of idiotic fans who support it. The are plenty of normal fans who don't need to act like idiots, such as myself.
Gkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24627 posts, RR: 58 Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 932 times:
Quoting RJ111 (Reply 3): Italy is quite reknown for its crowd trouble mind BTW.
Indeed...I believe that Inter Milan should be banned from European competition, or at least be forced to play behind closed doors.
The Italians were trying to make even the English look good
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
... hooliganism is a societal issue which manifests itself at, or uses football as its medium. Describing a football hooligan is like describing an alcoholic, there is no distinctive class divide and a thousand routes to the final destination.
Couldn't have put it better myself.
The way in which the mainly Catholic fans of Celtic are viewed by many Scottish fans is legendary. But let's remember that it was a small minority of those present.
I can't stand the violence associated with the game, and still struggle to understand fully why football has this reputation. It seems to attract the worst of society who then make the headlines and spoil the game for the vast majority of civilised, law-abiding, true fans.
Mark
All my life, I've been kissing, your top lip 'cause your bottom one's missing
Dragon-wings From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3922 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 911 times:
Why are fans allowed to bring flares into the stadium??
KLbambie From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 98 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 853 times:
I didn't see the Milan game last night but I have just read about what happened, an utter disgrace and Inter need to be punished for the action of their fans!
It is well known that Italy has had some problems in the past with football hooligans but then again what country doesn't (no I am not justifying it) unfortunately you are going to get idiots wherever you go in the world! When Scotland played Italy last month in Milan there was on point where it all kicked of in the home support. Expecting to see some silly Scotsman after one to many sherberts swinging his fists the TV footage shows Italians firing flares at each other ???
I agree with Kirkie on the minute silence thing, wasn't very well thought out and what happened, disgusting as it was, was unfortunately always going to happen.
Football and Religion together seem to bring out the worst in people
It's not a reputation problem, it's history: Look at football history, the clubs were not only places where to play football, but places to hang out with your buddies drink beer or other "Scottish" drinks , get shit-faced, then clubber each other to shreds. Even better did it get in places where there were clubs that catered to certain parts of society: Catholics vs. Protestants, Germans vs. Turks, uppermiddle-class part of the town vs. working-class parts etc. Hooliganism and downright battles of the fans were imminent...and we're still far away from being civilised enough to leave that violence behind ( at least the Scots and other Brits are ).
Compare it to rap music and breakdancing...basically the old gang wars continued on a dance floor/behind a microphone, an attempt to get civilised...still, rap musicians kill each other on a regularly basis.
Bad as it is...if football were banned, it'd take 3 days or so for the Engelaenders and the Germans to declare war on each other, for the Scots to commit suicide and for the Italians to move back to Mama and bawl their heads off
WunalaYann From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 2839 posts, RR: 31 Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 801 times:
Quoting KLbambie (Reply 8): football hooligans but then again what country doesn't
Scandinavia, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Japan, etc. Football/soccer may not be a major sport in these countries, but the equivalents (hockey in Scandinavia and Canada, AFL football/rugby league in Australia, rugby in NZ, etc.) are definitely less prone to hooliganism than soccer.
At least, it certainly never reaches the absolute lows of Italy, Russia, Turkey, Greece, Germany, the Netherlands, France, England (in the 70's and 80's) and the majority of Africa, South America and now China.
I do not believe in fatality, here. Make the police enforce the law, and things should be fine. English stadiums are incredibly safer now than they were 20 years ago.
WunalaYann From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 2839 posts, RR: 31 Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 775 times:
Quoting OYRJA (Reply 12): Scandinavia???? What are you talking about?`Football is the absolute favorite sport up here in all 3 countries.
Sorry, I really thought hockey was the major sport. Thank you for the info, it may be useful in future discussions on the subject.
Even better then, it just shows that the football + violence combo is not automatic, even when football is THE major sport. Which is good news as well, it gives reason for hope.
OYRJA From Denmark, joined Feb 2007, 77 posts, RR: 16 Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 773 times:
Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 14): Sorry, I really thought hockey was the major sport. Thank you for the info, it may be useful in future discussions on the subject.
No probs man.
But Hockey is very popular in Sweden though. But Football is still #1 there But Denmark and Norway doesn't have the same kind of feelings for hockey like the Swedes.
WunalaYann From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 2839 posts, RR: 31 Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 768 times:
Quoting OYRJA (Reply 15): But Hockey is very popular in Sweden though. But Football is still #1 there Smile But Denmark and Norway doesn't have the same kind of feelings for hockey like the Swedes.
And have you ever witnessed violence inside/outside of stadiums/arenas (not talking of hockey players dropping the gloves and entertaining the crowd, THAT is good!!!!) in some form reminiscent of hooliganism?
OYRJA From Denmark, joined Feb 2007, 77 posts, RR: 16 Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 764 times:
Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 16): And have you ever witnessed violence inside/outside of stadiums/arenas (not talking of hockey players dropping the gloves and entertaining the crowd, THAT is good!!!!) in some form reminiscent of hooliganism?
I have witnessed hooligans 4 matches ago when AGF(Aarhus) was visiting and played against my favorite team Viborg FF. About 10-15 AGF fans went totally nuts.
OYRJA From Denmark, joined Feb 2007, 77 posts, RR: 16 Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 757 times:
Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 18): Still, when it's 10 to 15 people, you cannot really talk of mass violence (try 10000 to 15000 in Brazil). Anyway, I'm surprised...
Hehehe. I know that 10-15 persons doesn't saound like much. But I can guarantee you that they really can make some damage. And beat the crap out of people.
L410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5411 posts, RR: 18 Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 746 times:
Quoting WunalaYann (Reply 11): Scandinavia, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Japan, etc. Football/soccer may not be a major sport in these countries, but the equivalents (hockey in Scandinavia and Canada, AFL football/rugby league in Australia, rugby in NZ, etc.) are definitely less prone to hooliganism than soccer.
Interesting observation. I agree with that. Here in the Czech Rep. hockey and football are about 50:50 as far as popularity.
Football hooliganism is a major problem, every game of the major clubs (Ostrava in particular, and of course both PRG teams - everyone hates Sparta Prague) requires police assistance in full riot gear. I think it's about time to let them play at empty stadiums. As a taxpayer who doesn't really care about footbol nor hooligans I don't see a reason to waste money of the police to guard these idiots.
On the other hand you don't see something like that in hockey - and if you do it's very rare minor fight between fans who get a little bit too excited about the game. It is definitely not a whole culture of violence, where the game itself is not of any interest and the stadium is just a stage for the main objective - a fight with the other "fans".
Tickets for hockey and football cost about the same, I can imagine the social background of the spectators will not be that much different from the football ones.
Could it be because there is more action on the ice and it is often sooo damn boring to watch a football game?
FLYtoEGCC From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 947 posts, RR: 3 Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 731 times:
Quoting Learpilot (Thread starter): You continue to show us that you're a sport of high class.
The vast majority of us football supporters are decent, law-abiding people. While last night's scenes in Milan were, as people have already said here, absolutely disgraceful and shocking, it is thankfully a minority that behave in that manner. (Although admittedly it might not have looked like that from the TV pictures.)
Iakobos From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 3305 posts, RR: 37 Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 722 times:
... hooliganism is a societal issue which manifests itself at, or uses football as its medium
I am an all-time neutral football fan and it happens I am in one of those "absolute low" leagues where hooliganism flourishes...and is not fighted.
Being incidentally a friend or relative of "persons in charge" at one of the local (1st division) clubs, I have a permanent invitation and I have used it rather often in the past.
A good friend also happens to be a plain clothes officer whom is always around stadiums (all sorts) when clashes are expected.
Finally, my local grocer runs the hardest of the hardcore fan club.
The loop is complete.
The persons..
Mostly young lowly educated "citizens" who (most) are struggling to make a living. Individually harmless guys.
Their weekly outing seems to be the only moment in their young lifes when they can release the anger and frustration accumulated during the week.
The place..
An open arena, with buddies and identifiable enemies will be the battlefield.
The event is prepared, carefully organized. Two to three hours before the game, the buddies meet in nearby cafés and start getting in the mood.
Twenty minutes before kick off they move in tribes to the stadium, they are loaded like Scots can be, spirits high, voices already broken by the loud warrior chants. Those who are still reasonably fit carry six-packs of 1.5L water bottles.(it is not for drinking though)
I have to leave my cigarette lighter at the police check at the entrance, but the hardcore fans know the tricks and the police just ask questions, they would not risk trying body search.
The referee
Always the lame duck and the unvoluntary ignition fuse.
What strikes me is that the clubs' own management do not want to clamp down on their hooligans. One would ask why ?
There is a sound logic in this, follow me.
Everyone who has experienced playing in front of a large crowd knows how it feels to be cheered, and knows the difference between playing at home or on someone else's tuf.
So, for the home team noisy fans are important and will reflect in their performance, does not matter if it comes from 70yr old fishermen or 20yr old dickheads, it happens that the second category is present and loud.
Loud local fans bring points and at the end of the season that translates into money, and it can vary between quite a lot of it or none. (tv contracts, champions league, uefa cup, intertotto cup, advertisement rates, sponsors interest, players value, memorabilia, etc....)
Nowadays, revenues from public attendance are pretty insignificant (here).
The costs of refurbishing the stadium every second week are just covered by the (discounted) season's subscription fees.
Fan's money is uninteresting, their loud presence is warmly welcomed.
Keeping the hardcore from entering the stadium is exactly like giving the guest team a one (or more) goal advantage. Who is the manager who wants this ?
KROC From United States of America, joined May 2000, 19737 posts, RR: 75 Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 713 times:
I love when Soccer backs up my point on why it sucks so much.
"Never tell anybody outside the family what you're thinking again"
25 OYRJA: You love when this happens don't you? hehehe
26 Thom@s: KROC, what you saw were the hooligans going nuts. Not the football match. The game itself was quite entertaining up until it was abandoned. So the way
27 Gman94: So when LA Lakers fans go on the rampage after winning the NBA title that means that all Basketball is infected hooligans and means that the enitre s
28 LHMARK: I have a real, live German coming to town for my wedding this summer. I'm going to take him to a soccer game here. The poor bastard won't even recogni
29 CPH-R: I can't really see the outrage here - Dida should have been smart enough to leave the goal area once the flares & bottles started flying. And you know
30 KROC: The Lakers and the NBA suck too. And when they riot...I pile on them too.
31 Spinzels: Yeah, we know you think it sucks. You’ve told us about twenty times in the past few weeks, and given the apparent inexhaustible amount of free time
32 Falcon84: Was thinking that very thing when I heard about it. Maybe, but why is this apparently so common to soccer? It seems every week or so, there's a riot
33 CactusA319: Not to defend the sport or anything but it is played on a larger scale than our American sports. Also there's a lot of national pride that goes into
34 Banco: You need to continue that sentence with "...somewhere in the world" to give it a proper context. We've done this before, but here are a couple of exa
35 Gman94: Exactly if some mindless idiots go the rampage why do idiots like Kroc tar the whole footballing world with the same brush, it insults me and all oth
36 Mdsh00: That happened only the first time the Lakers one the championship in 2000. After that, precautions were taken. Like others said, games are rarely int
37 Spinzels: I would have said “diff’rent strokes for diff’rent folks”, but you’d rather say “soccer sucks”. You’re entitled. You mention the Brow
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