JUANR From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2226 times:
Painter Fernando Botero has depicted the horror of Abu Ghraib abuses in a collection of pictures that will be exhibited in Rome and then over the world. They are artisticly awesome but unfortunately they show a cruel truth. Enjoy them, if you can:
UH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2218 times:
While I doubt it really needs to be said, I would just like to officially state that the vast majority of Americans soldiers detest what occurred in Abu Ghraib. It was always said about being a POW: Being an American POW is horrifying. Being a POW in America's custody is a step up in living.
Unfortunately that was not true here. I will be honest, I am conflicted about the use of torture and whether/when it should be used. I just cannot bring myself to believe torture should NEVER be used. But I am perfectly comfortable believing that the treatment of POWS at Abu Ghraib was dead wrong. What distinguished us from them (aside from out technological superiority) was that we were more humane. While our enemy showed no regard for innocent life, we were willing to place more soldiers lives in danger than risk killing innocents. We treated captured soldiers with civility and the we were proud of the Gulf War I images of Americans treating captured Iraqis with water, food and shelter. This... this just set us back 20 years.
SlamClick From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 10062 posts, RR: 66
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2205 times:
Your title is very misleading.
It implies that there are pictures of NEW abuses at Abu Graib.
Instead I find the imaginings of some "artist" who does not seem to be at all troubled by former Iraqi secret police beheading foreigners with a pocket knife for the crime of trying to fix Bagdhad's water system.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
ANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2190 times:
Quoting SlamClick (Reply 2): Your title is very misleading.
It implies that there are pictures of NEW abuses at Abu Graib.
I agree completely. The story would be different if they were photos. An artists imagination can get carried away, and in some cases above, it did.
By the way, JuanR, I don't see any drawings of the poor bastards that were beheaded with a knife in there? I don't see any drawings of IEDs being put in place.
That said, I think the actions of the few at Abu Ghraib were deplorable. I said the same thing when it first became public knowledge. I'll say it today and tomorrow. Deplorable. There is absolutely no excuse for their actions and I could not accept any offered.
JUANR From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2149 times:
The title is not misleading, I those pictures have just been released this week, I never wrote anything about new abuses or anything like that.
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3): By the way, JuanR, I don't see any drawings of the poor bastards that were beheaded with a knife in there? I don't see any drawings of IEDs being put in place
I agree, that is cruel too, but you should ask that to the painter, not me, I do condemn those beheadings as well.
I just want to share the pictures with you, those will be exhibited worldwide as he is a very recognized artist in the world, I do not care about his purposes when painting those pictures, but their quality is really high. He is famous for painting, among other things, violence here in Colombia and his pictures and sculpures are recognized worldwide.
DfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1072 posts, RR: 50
Reply 9, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2138 times:
Quoting JUANR (Thread starter): They are artisticly awesome but unfortunately they show a cruel truth.
Oh boo fricking hoo....
There has been an Abu Ghraib of every single modern war, and they were all far worse. Had this happened on a college campus, it would have been dismissed as frat boys being frat boys. Yet some pansy has to make a knock-off of Picasso's Guernica. Calling Abu Ghraib an atrocity is a slap in the face to real tragedies and cheapens the victims of horrors like Andersonville, the Soviet Goulags, the Cambodian death fields, or Rawanda.
Aviationmaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2095 times:
Quoting JUANR (Reply 7): The title is not misleading, I those pictures have just been released this week, I never wrote anything about new abuses or anything like that.
It is misleading, nuff said. First off they aren't pictures. We are talking about PAINTINGS here. Your title could also be understood in the way that new pictures of abuses at Abu Gharaib have surfaced...
Tbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7013 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1946 times:
Discussed to death?
Lord forbid that we talk about our country, the beacon of freedom and democracy, using torture on foreign POW's. Lord forbid that we hold our country to the highest standards. I hold my own country to the highest standards, more than any other. It is the most patriotic thing I can do. I know that the terrorists are gonna be doing crazy shit, what I'd prefer is that our soldiers do not.
The "horror" as you call it...was severely overblown by the media, leftists, and anti-war crowd.
Well if that's how you feel, lets ship you off to Abu Ghraib, to be stripped, beaten, humiliated, and sexually assaulted...... Then you tell me that it was overblown by the media and leftists.
The fact that you dismiss the horrifying things that went on there at the hands of Americans, who are supposed to be "above" all that, is frankly sad and only speaks of (your) bigotry and blindness. It shows how disgusting this war truly is. Have a nice day.
But it has been, and it still is. And imagine: this would have happened to US citizens - US citizens were tortured and murdered. The tortured and murdered people are "only" Iraqi, so that's no big deal. Hmmm, in civilized countries we call it "Racism"
In Germany we had other cases of US behavour: a US soldier who murdered a woonded and helpless Iraqi, didn't land in prison - his collegue who refused going back to Iraq (cause of the behavour of the 1st soldier) landed in jail for 1 year.
And this criminal bast*** (murderer) is free, can't even judged in La Hague.