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Gay GI Who Got Purple Heart Wants To Serve Openly  
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2503 times:

http://www.chicagosuntimes.com/output/iraq/cst-nws-igay08.html

WASHINGTON -- An Army sergeant who was wounded in Iraq wants a chance to remain in the military as an openly gay soldier, a desire that's bringing him into conflict with the Pentagon's ''don't ask, don't tell'' policy.

Sgt. Robert Stout, 23, says he has not encountered trouble from fellow soldiers and would like to stay if not for the policy that permits gay men and women to serve only if they keep their sexual orientation a secret.

60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTheCoz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2483 times:



User currently offlineCORULEZ05 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2485 times:

Interestingly enough, I was just watching something about gay soldiers on 20/20. I do not understand what the big deal is about gay soldiers. Why does who they choose to have in bed affect or have anything to do with their ability to fight for our country? A sargeant on this show was talking about how being gay prevents bonds from developing between soldiers, also trust amongst them. I find that to be a load of crap if you ask me. Soldiers are concerned with their duty which is defend our country and could care less if the guy or girl next to him or her prefers to sleep with people of their same sex.

User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7642 posts, RR: 36
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2465 times:

Maybe it'll bring confusion into the ranks. You know, like if they're out on patrol and someone says "Watch your six!"  Big grin

Sorry, couldn't resist!

Cheers,
Patrick



A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8502 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2463 times:

I think that the "don't ask, don't tell" policy is asinine (but you shouldn't be surprised, since it's a product of the Clinton years), but I have an aquaintance who is a Marine and was recently in a situation with a gay Marine that was not cool, to say the least.

I'm not in the military, so I don't really have a dog in this fight (and ultimately, it's none of my business).

[edited a bit for language]

Oh yeah, i also got sexually molested by a gay marine, and it tore me apart that i didn't suspect a goddamn thing and fell into such a simple trap... I didn't get raped or buttfucked or anything like that. But i got sure as hell played for a fool and felt up... I felt so disgustingly grimy and... omg i just can't even describe how much my skin just crawled after that damaging experiance. I tried to write about it... trying to get such a... horror filled shudder rid from my body... off my chest... but the g**damn firewall settings here on base are a pain in the ass.

My skin still crawls when i think about it, and i then proceed to beat myself up over getting tricked like that... But i try my best to forget it ever happened.

The most i can really do is take satisfaction in the physical damage i did to the mutherf***er's facial features. Guy looks like he fell down a flight of stairs on his head... God it creeped me out so bad. This happened almost 2 weeks ago, and it still makes me feel totally disgusting whenever it crosses my mind.

Life is f***ed up, ya know that?

I've been seducing young girls into bed since i was 14. I never really expected some of those same simple slight of hand pushy, slow movin tricks would ever get used on me.

Well here's how it happened to me. Well, the short version.

Remember how i used to give out sensual massages for a while, taught a short class for a while and all that, got paid for sex with that hot stripper naomi as a result of it(she paid me like 40 bucks and a few favors in trade for a 2 hour sensual massage)? Well, this skinny black dude told me this story about how he was a proffesional masseuse, went to the classes, got the little piece of paper, all that. And he had been giving massages to a few of the female marines around the barracks. Well, supposedly he had an appointment with 5 of them in about 40min or so and he wondered if i would mind posing as a proffesional masseuse as well for these girls, meet some cute girls, maybe get laid, all that.

Well, i thought that idea was simply off the chain, badass. And confident in my skill, i was sure i could handle it based on my experiance with sensual massage. Well, he then created the doubt in me that a proffesional massage for like physical therapy or whatever was an entirely different prospect than that of a sensual massage. Well, i have never had a proffesional massage for a damn thing. Had my spine and joints popped several times at the chiro- clinic after a car accident, but that's it.

Well he then offered to do a quick 12-20 minute demonstration on me so i could pay attention and learn what to focus on and the proper strokes/techniques etc. Now i was kinda nervous about this, but he explained to me that both of his roommates and mine (all 4 are friends of mine) had already done this and were doing it too. So i submitted and said sure.

Well, the s.o.b. got a little feely. Rubbed my ass quite a bit longer than i was even close to comfortable with. And upon issued verbal warning he would get knocked the f*** out. I met mocking/childing comments like "you aren't very comfortable in your sexuality are you" and some other shit like that. Upon flipping over for the other side, he got a little to occupied in the crotch area. When his had touched a little... lets just say, that after being warned, he crossed a line, and a split second later his face quickly met (several times) with my fists, feet, knees, and elbows.

I didn't realize till after i had left with some buddies of mine and chain smoked about a pack of cigs (trying to calm down) that it finally sank into my skull just how damn well that mutherf***er manipulated and manuvered me into a place i had much better judgement than to ever find myself in.

Turns out, he pulled maybe a dozen of those sort of stunts in the past two weeks and a few captains and other officialls have started privately gathering testimony and evidence about the incidences. The Marines are a "Don't ask, Don't tell" policy on homosexuality. You can be homosexual and serve in the military. They watch your back, you watch theirs. Just keep it underwraps and don't grab anybody's ass. The second you do.... You're gone buddy. So me and my fellow DCA buddies are hoping to see him discharged at a very soon date. He's been pulling wierd shit a lot and it's just REALLY bad for moral. The guy's a damn sexual predator or something like that.

I think i ought to feel guilty or something for beating the hell outta this dude... But good god, it's the only comfort i can gather from the experiance, that i hurt him so effectively.... It made me feel more normal to see him walkin around with his eyes swelled shut and his face cut up. (he refused to tell how he got hurt when asked. Probably scared they would find out the whole story and prosecute him or something...)

Anyways, it's over. I'm tryin my best to act like it never happened. And hopefully, in a year or two... Maybe i'll in fact forget that it ever did.

God it grossed me out so bad....



What was amusing to me is that the guy who wrote this account I know has gotten laid with more than a few girls, but at least it was consensual. And if you think that this guy is another Matthew Shepherd, remember that this involved US Marines: They're not the same kind of people as you and I. It doesn't really surprise me that he snapped like that.


User currently offlineJUANR From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2418 times:

In my country gays Constitutionaly has the right to be part of the armed forces openly, I can't understand how in the country of freedom it can't be possible.

Juan
SKBO


User currently offlineSFOMEX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2418 times:

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 3):
I've been seducing young girls into bed since i was 14.

I'm sure the US Marine Corps is proud of having this person on its ranks. worried 


User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8502 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2416 times:

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 6):
I'm sure the US Marine Corps is proud of having this person on its ranks.

Surely you don't find this surprising?


User currently offlineKyleLosAngeles From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 214 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2331 times:

MD-90,

The guy that wrote that is not telling the entire story. There are some obvious details missing.

He feels bad. So he needs to reconstruct history in a way to support the way he feels now.

AND, he's way too upset about it. If he is a straight Marine as he claims, he was never in danger or at risk. So the retroactive fear, anger and paranoia is very exaggerated and misplaced.

It really makes me wonder why.



Happy 2006
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2317 times:

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 4):
(but you shouldn't be surprised, since it's a product of the Clinton years)

Good god you can turn anything into a "blame Clinton" fest, cant you?


User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7642 posts, RR: 36
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2316 times:

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 6):
Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 3):
I've been seducing young girls into bed since i was 14.

I'm sure the US Marine Corps is proud of having this person on its ranks

What the hell??!!  Confused I never said anything like that!



A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
User currently offlineSenorcarnival From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2315 times:

My best friend was in the Marines for four years, almost 6 months of that on a ship with the occasional docking. Anyway, the story goes: his buddy started waking up with some slight bleeding from his, ahem, anal cavity and went to the infirmary and they couldn't exactly diagnose anything. Long story short, turns out what happened was that his roommate was rubbing this guy's pillow with some sort of strong smelling fluid (I wanna say it was ether), so this guy would literally pass out when he went to bed and his roommate would take advantage of him.
Moral of the story is, there are a few bad apples that will do things like this or that other story above, but to assume that every gay GI will try to get in their fellow GI's pants therefore banning them from serving is simply ridiculous. There's a time and place for you to get your groove on, regardless of sexual orientation, and while you're on duty isn't really the most appropriate time, but what you do on your leave is your business...


User currently offlineKyleLosAngeles From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 214 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2246 times:

Quoting Senorcarnival (Reply 11):
so this guy would literally pass out when he went to bed and his roommate would take advantage of him

Again, this is someone's wildly concocted story to try and make a consentual romp sound like rape, after the fact. It is amazing the crazy things that people will make up once the guilt sets in.



Happy 2006
User currently offlineSenorcarnival From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2227 times:

Quoting KyleLosAngeles (Reply 12):
Again, this is someone's wildly concocted story to try and make a consentual romp sound like rape, after the fact. It is amazing the crazy things that people will make up once the guilt sets in.

Could be, who knows, my source is reliable. Whether my source's source is reliable, I really don't know and when you start talking about source's source, it becomes much like a game of telelphone. In the end, the phrase, your mom's dog is ugly, becomes your dad's cat is pretty.
However, that still doesn't change my bottom line, fiction or not, there's a time and place to get laid.


User currently offlineUH60FtRucker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2225 times:

Quoting KyleLosAngeles (Reply 12):
Again, this is someone's wildly concocted story to try and make a consentual romp sound like rape, after the fact. It is amazing the crazy things that people will make up once the guilt sets in.

Why don't you believe some of this stuff happens? There is no shortage of cases where male soldiers take advantage of female soldiers, and some of their tactics were pretty unique. Why can't a guy do the same thing, but just to another guy? The point is, there are just some sick people out there who find a thrill in preying on people... both straights and gays.

Personally, I do not have any issue with what any of my fellow soldiers' sexual preferences are. However, if I made an unwanted pass at one of my female soldiers, I'd be disciplined. It should be no different for gays hitting on guys. We're here to do our duty. It's our job. The armed forces is not Match-Maker, we're not here to find you a life partner. What, and who, you do on liberty is your own business, but it has no place for your duty life. Plain and simple.

-UH60


User currently offlineAdam From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 465 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2209 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 14):
Why don't you believe some of this stuff happens? There is no shortage of cases where male soldiers take advantage of female soldiers, and some of their tactics were pretty unique. Why can't a guy do the same thing, but just to another guy? The point is, there are just some sick people out there who find a thrill in preying on people... both straights and gays.

You're right UH60...whether it's homosexual or heterosexual rape, that calls for some discipline.

I posted a topic on here a while ago about the cost of discharging gay servicemen and woman, it was amazing, I was absolutely shocked. Here it is:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/non_aviation/read.main/792483

I'm not in the military, so I can't exactly comment on details, but why have we spent $200 million dollars keeping people from protecting us as citizens? In theory "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" works, but can anyone in the military comment on whether it's harder to perform your duties along side other personnel if your constantly keeping that inside?

Adam



Texas: You'll come for the Alamo, You'll stay because you were wrongfully executed. - Conan O'Brian State Quarters
User currently offlineSoups From Ghana, joined Jun 2004, 3438 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2191 times:

i don't see whay a person sexuality should affect them if they want to join the army.. sorry you cant join the army you are gay isnt that discrimination?


Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8502 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2170 times:

Quoting KyleLosAngeles (Reply 8):
If he is a straight Marine as he claims, he was never in danger or at risk.

I wouldn't want some guy touching my dick. It's gross for someone who isn't gay, in case you're not aware of that.

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 9):
Good god you can turn anything into a "blame Clinton" fest, cant you?

Naw, I just did that to get a rise out of y'all. The Pentagon makes enough dumb decisions for that to be enacted during any president's term.


User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2150 times:

Kinda reminds me of a Mad Magazine cartoon I once saw about the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy. It had 60 minutes reporter Ed Wallace interviewing Rush Limbaugh, and they asked him his thoughts on gays in the military.

EW:"So Rush, whats your take on gays in the military?"

RL: "I think there is a place for gays in the military, as target practice."

EW: "But doesn't it make you feel good to know that there may be a gay man standing between you and the enemy?"

RL: "It makes me feel a lot better than if he was standing behind me, I'll tell you that."

EW: "So you don't support gays in the military?"

RL: "I'll just say that if I am in a foxhole with another guy, I want to be sure we are both concerned about saving each others life, not about whether he thinks my ass looks good in a Speedo."


It was just a comic, but it was pretty darn hilarious.  biggrin 


User currently offlineKyleLosAngeles From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 214 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2128 times:

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 14):
Why don't you believe some of this stuff happens?

I do believe that situations happen all the time where one guy expresses an interest and the other guy may not feel the same way. That's no big deal. It happens in the military, and it happens in the civilian world every day. Simply say "no thanks" and move on.

What I don't believe are the overly-dramatized accounts of being 'gassed' and sodomized while in an unconscious state only to awaken and learn about it the next morning.

In one story above, the alleged 'victim' volunteered to receive a demonstration of his attacker's "proper stroking techniques". Assuming that you are straight, how often do you volunteer to put yourself in the same sort of situation? Probably never.

The guy's emotional ranting ("God it grossed me out so bad....") was so repetitive that it really makes me wonder what the real motivation is for telling the story in the first place.

I don't know the guy, but it fits a classic case of someone who is very insecure with their own sexuality wanting to use a story like this to convince himself how straight he is.

The 2nd most likely scenario is that he likes to tell this story as a backhanded way of letting others know that he thinks of himself as irresistable, and enjoys painting a picture of others not being able to keep their hands off of him.



Happy 2006
User currently offlineKyleLosAngeles From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 214 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2115 times:

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 17):
wouldn't want some guy touching my dick. It's gross for someone who isn't gay, in case you're not aware of that.

Don't play insulting games with your subtle implications (" .. in case you're not aware .. "). It is a stupid and transparent attempt to insult me.

I am totally aware. And I don't want anyone touching my anything unless I have invited it.

My point is that people do not usually end up in situations where such things happen without some knowledge of what they are getting into.

It is annoying to see gay men portrayed as such addictive predators who cannot help themselves. It is also annoying to see these allegedly straight guys portrayed as such naive victims.

We're talking about roommates here. Don't you think two roommates would have a general idea of each others sexuality - and the corresponding limits?

Have you ever had a roommate? If so, did you think of each other as sexually 'experimental', or did you have a reasonably good idea that you were both straight - and not interested in fooling around?

People who find themselves being fondled in the middle of the night almost always have SOME responsibility in the events leading up to it.

People who never find themselves in that situation can also take responsibility for that as well.

You reap what you sew.



Happy 2006
User currently offlineFlybyguy From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1801 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2106 times:

Quoting Soups (Reply 16):
i don't see whay a person sexuality should affect them if they want to join the army.. sorry you cant join the army you are gay isnt that discrimination?

I don't think the military is an appropriate place for men who are gay as well as women who are straight. I can only imagine the things that sex starved men sequestered in duty would say or do to the lone female soldier in their battalion. As for gay men in the military, it is like putting a straight man in a club with all of the fittest, best looking women in the country. In that sort of situation you are asking for trouble.



"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
User currently offlineMisbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2097 times:

Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 21):
As for gay men in the military, it is like putting a straight man in a club with all of the fittest, best looking women in the country. In that sort of situation you are asking for trouble.

Wow! For sure, the military has some good lookers in it, but the Chippendales it ain't!

Besides, if your theory were true, then something's wrong with American military men, because the Forces in the rest of the Western world have encountered no such problems.


User currently offlineBananaBoY From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 1572 posts, RR: 23
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2097 times:

Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 21):
As for gay men in the military, it is like putting a straight man in a club with all of the fittest, best looking women in the country. In that sort of situation you are asking for trouble.

You may be looking for sex in a club, but if you follow that logic, then surely you wouldn't, as you put it, have the fittest, best looking women in the country allowed to work in an office with straight men.

Mark



All my life, I've been kissing, your top lip 'cause your bottom one's missing
User currently offlineAdam From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 465 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2089 times:

Is anyone looking at the money aspect? 200 million for just 10,000 people?


Texas: You'll come for the Alamo, You'll stay because you were wrongfully executed. - Conan O'Brian State Quarters
25 UH60FtRucker : Actually you're playing right into what the APA (American Psychology Association) is critical of our society for. This is what the APA writes: "Like
26 Post contains images UH60FtRucker : I have to disagree with you here. We're the most well trained forces in the world. We're here to do our job, and to do it professionally. This is my
27 Post contains images KyleLosAngeles : UH60F ... you know not who you are speaking to. I have an affiliation with the APA, for one thing. I invite you to get to know me a bit before you st
28 ANCFlyer : I rather stayed out of this thread, until now, I think a few comments from someone that spent half their life in a uniform might be necessary. First,
29 UH60FtRucker : Your trust in person who is claiming rape is just so apparent in that quote. When they told you their stories, did you tell them that you knew 'they'
30 KyleLosAngeles : Actually I agree with you. I WOULD make one hell of a counselor. And yes, I know the full stories of my friend's situations. So fair and understandin
31 MD-90 : What masseuse touches someone's crotch when he's giving a massage? We were friends when we lived on the same floor of the same dorm our freshman year
32 KyleLosAngeles : Wow - that's pretty deep judgement, don't you think? How exactly do you think that YOU come across? I think that gay and straight people both have th
33 Shawn Patrick : Just think of what they're losing by excluding gays in the first place. There are, no doubt, incredibly apt gay men who would do a pretty damn good j
34 Jaysit : I think that the "don't ask, don't tell" policy is asinine (but you shouldn't be surprised, since it's a product of the Clinton years). Bill Clinton w
35 Concord977 : MD90 / UH60 - you guys are so far out of your league on this one you'll need a bus ticket to get home. That point went right over their heads because
36 JCS17 : Let's take a step back for a second. Why does he want to do this? Self-affirmation? Probably not. Getting to be the spotlight? Probably not. The only
37 Flybyguy : I was told that the US military was working on a "gay bomb". Is this just an urban legend or was it true? I understand that no chemical is going to ma
38 Shawn Patrick : JCS17 - "Advertise his services" ??? So that means straight men are advertising THEIR services too? What the hell are you talking about, man? As far a
39 Jaysit : The only reason that he could possibly have for wanting to serve openly is to be able to advertise his sexual preference to his fellow soldiers. Peopl
40 ANCFlyer : Total bullshit JCS17. Your thinking is pretty warped here. While I'm sure he might take an eyefull in the shower, that's likely not his primary motiv
41 MD-90 : No, it's because I actually know the person in question, and I'm pretty darn sure that's not the case.
42 Post contains images Diamond : Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a winner.
43 Russophile : Frankly, I'm a bit perplexed as to why anyone would want to defend a country which basically treats them like shit and as a third-class citizen? And w
44 Jaysit : Thats not a faggy looking pink shirt. Its the pink cotton candy he's made of.
45 SFOMEX : You made some good arguments. I've always wondered why Colin Powell was so adamant opposing Clinton's policy regarding gays in the military. He is pr
46 Post contains images Shawn Patrick : Incredibly - well - said. Diamond -- That's the funniest thing I've seen in a long time! Feeling better?
47 Flybyguy : As a decorated general, Colin Powell is probably an authority on what is good for the military and troops in general. As far as his reasoning, your g
48 ANCFlyer : On duty, I don't give a damn if they're under-sexed, over-sexed, male, female, gay, lesbian, what the hell ever - on duty, Mission First. If they let
49 DL021 : I think, that without offering an opinion on this topic first, that this issue could be looked at in the following way. The military is required by la
50 Jaysit : Why is everyone so excited about the whole shower scenario? I take a shower at the gym all the time, and am surrounded by both straight and gay men. I
51 Post contains links and images Lekohawk : I hope you're kidding DL021. Moving on: When it comes right down to it, gay men are just about as horny, and just about as likely to rape or molest as
52 Post contains images Klaus : Question: Why don´t european armies fall apart when the US forces claim they would if they allowed gays to serve openly? What exactly makes the US fo
53 777236ER : Ditto what Klaus said (but without the annoying bolds.) I love how MD-90 censored out 'God' but not 'buttfucked' too.
54 Flybyguy : You and I both know that the government leapt upon what we now know to be erroneous intelligence out of Iraq, I think most everyone other than those
55 CaptOveur : One summer I worked at Wright-Patterson AFB. for base Civil Engineering, I did everything from mowing grass to painting fences. One of the tasks we w
56 777236ER : Is being open in the military a good idea? I think that you can't get more homophobic than military men. The exhibit and honor all of the standard Wes
57 CaptOveur : Been there, done that... until 1948 I think. Don't think for a minute it was a walk in the park when they were brought into "white" units.
58 DL021 : He is lots of things, a coward he is not...don't let your politics take you down unnecessarily wenal avenues. Not really, I like showering with lesbi
59 MD-90 : GD is a word in a completely different class than any such casual word as f**k. Hardly. Black men fought in the Revolutionary War and on both sides o
60 Lekohawk : Except that it forces gay men and lesbians into lying for fear of losing their job. Personally... I'd rather not encourage lying in our armed forces,
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