MD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8474 posts, RR: 13 Posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2016 times:
Normalspeed, if you read this, I apologize in advance. I don't mean to offend anyone, but I'd rather offend someone I don't personally know than some of my very best friends.
Okay, this is my personal account of what I know about the LDS Church.
It started three years ago when I was a freshmen at MSU, and became friends with one of the girls in my fraternity (KKPsi, the band frat). She was Mormon. This was my first experience with an actual, live Mormon (there aren't that terribly many in the South).
Fast forward two years, to last fall. I had the opportunity to go home with her and meet her parents, who are absolutely wonderful people (so is she). They're the friendly kind of people that everyone would want to know.
Now, this spring. My friend has converted all three of her roommates. One was baptized last Easter, another the weekend after that (I attended her baptism), and the last will be baptized very soon, probably next weekend. The first one didn't surprise me, because she's not exactly a person of very firm convictions, but the last one does. She's been my friend's roommate the longest, but I would think that she'd have more sense than this (she was a very stable Methodist).
I went from thinking that Mormons were Christians, just a little strange, to realizing that it is a cult, to thinking that Mormons may not be Christians at all. That makes me worry, because I really care about my friends, and yet, while I worry about their souls, I'm afraid of losing their friendship, especially that of the first friend who started it all, because she's such a good person.
But being good does not mean that someone is saved, despite what Mormons believe about the terrestial equivalent of the "good" yet unbelieving people going to the moon or some silly analogy. I learned that yesterday in my second meeting with the local missionaries. They're both nice, earnest guys, but sadly, they're pretty closed-minded. The only reason why I'm talking to them is because I've made comments to my friend about learning more about the LDS Church, but I don't want to ask her, because I don't want to offend her or lose her as a friend. So she sent them to my house, with my permission.
Mormons do not believe in the trinity. They believe that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are three separate beings united in one purpose. That means that Mormonism is polytheistic, not monotheistic.
That is not Christian. The Bible overwhelmingly says otherwise.
Mormons believe that the Bible is not error-free, that it once was accurate, but in translation things have been changed, even in the King James, and it's not perfect, like the Book of Mormon is. God said that His Word would endure forever, and I believe Him.
That is not Christian.
Mormons believe in three Glories. They're the celestial (like the sun), terrestial (like the moon), and telestial (like the stars). They do not believe in Hell. They believe in various levels of salvation based upon good works, which is not Biblical.
This is not Christian.
Mormons split the Holy Ghost into two parts. The gift of power in the Holy Ghost can only be given to a person through men, specifically those of the LDS’ Aaronic Priesthood. Mormons also believe that Christianity basically died out when the last of the 12 original apostles was martyred, or something like that. The true church was not seen again until 1830, when Joseph Smith founded the LDS church. Forget the fact that the Aaronic priesthood’s purpose was ended when Jesus sacrificed himself for us (that’s why the temple veil was torn in two—there was no longer any need for symbolic sacrifices of animals by priests. Jesus had made the ultimate sacrifice.
This is not Christian.
I could go on and on, but I shouldn’t. I’m just another “anti” (anyone that disagrees with Mormons can be discounted because they’re an anti-Mormon and their opinions or beliefs don’t matter). Needless to say, I’m not quite sure how to proceed further. I have read the verses in the Book of Mormon.that I’ve been assigned by the missionaries. I’ve prayed about it, and while I’ve told them that my response was ambiguous (which is sort of true), that was stretching the truth a bit, because I’m pretty sure that God says that Mormonism is false religion. That in itself is dangerous. Mormons do not assert that the Book of Mormon is true, but ask that you pray about it and ask God if it’s true. On the surface, that seems reasonable, but that leaves one open to demonic trickery. I don’t take that lightly, and I don’t think that any Christian should.
How I’m going to tell them no thanks, I’m not sure.
LHMARK From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 50 Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2011 times:
Mormon missionary kids stop by my house every summer. I usually fix them some sandwiches, and give them something non-alcoholic to drink. What they're doing is really hard. I don't pile on. But I am firm that they're not gonna get anywhere with their kooky religion in my house. Hell, Hill Cumorah (where Joseph Smith founded the cult) is 15 miles from my house. I've heard it all before. But I'll be nice to the missionaries.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
MD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8474 posts, RR: 13 Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2006 times:
By the way, don't give them anything with caffeine in it. And tea is still bad for you, even if it's decaffeinated, because it's got tannic acid in it, and it'll "turn your stomach in something like shriveled up leather." That's how I found out that the first of my friends was baptized, I offered her Milo's sweet tea when she was at my house for dinner, which was a temptation, since they can't go into their temples if they've had caffeine or something. She turned it down, and that's when I found out that she had been baptized when I was home for Easter.
LHMARK From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 50 Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2002 times:
MD-90, you are really intrigued by the whole mormon thing, arent you? I'm not saying you should close your mind to it, but do yourself a favor and hit the library... research the crap out of it and make sure you don't jump in for the wrong reason, or rashly. The mormons i've met are good, caring folks, but make no mistake, it is a cult. Not a doomsday cult, but a cult nonetheless.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
Skidmarks From UK - England, joined Dec 2004, 7121 posts, RR: 59 Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1975 times:
My wife is a lapsed Mormon, and has never tried to get me to join the church. I believe in letting people believe what they want to and get on with life. No, I'm not particularly a Christian either. In fact, Atheist more describes me I suppose.
But all the Mormons I have met have been kind, generous and quite unassuming.
In September I am going to Salt Lake City to meet some friends of ours who are devout Mormons. They don't try to convert me, in fact, we have a bit of a laugh about it, when the subject comes up.
Maybe on home ground they will be a little more aggressive, I don't know. But I feel that I have a good enough relationship with them and my wife to ensure this does not happen.
MD-90, only you can make your mind up about these people, but, as Mark says, do some independant research and, if you don't want to join, then be firm and decisive with them. Don't lose their friendship, but let them know in no uncertain terms that you are happy with your religion as it is and do not want to change.
Aerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 6729 posts, RR: 13 Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1971 times:
We haven't had Mormons at my house in years, even though we have a few families in the neighbourhood. I guess word got out about the high pressure hose and the flour trick I played when I was young and they wouldn't take no for an answer.
OzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4759 posts, RR: 22 Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1945 times:
I've had a few at the door. I asked them what the stance on homsexuality is and then came the condemnation. I asked them if God made me gay, why does he hate me so much? No good answer for that. And no other anti-gay denomination can answer that, either.
ALL religions are cults my friends, think for yourself.
Ozark Flies Your Way, Coast To Coast and Border To Border
Which Fu¢king religon is RIGHT?!?!?! If their religion is right for them, there is NOTHING to worry about, they are going to go to their version of heaven and live happily as all..If yours is right, they are going to hell anyway so what does it matter?
Quoting LHMARK (Reply 3): but do yourself a favor and hit the library... research the crap out of it and make sure you don't jump in for the wrong reason, or rashly
Brilliant remmark!!! I work with a "Christian" who says "he knows the truth" and that he doesn't need to understand other religions.. Everytime he shows up to the break room and starts...expressing himself... everyone jumps on him with facts about other religions, and it's so embarrasing to watch him show up to a battle of wits TOTALLY un-armed.
I would respect someone who had told me (and could somewhat prove) that they had researched all the religions throughly and found religion X to be the answer. I don't begrudge people who truly believe what they want, but when they show up at my door expecting to come in and have a chat about it I hope they like looking at a VERY FAT UGLY NAKED GUY!!!
B747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1929 times:
I've worked extensively with some people who just happen to be Mormon and some of my very good friends also just happen to be Mormon.
Their religion has never been an issue on either a personal or professional level (except with cheap tabloid newspapers who try to make it one) and quite honestly, I find that Mormons who are active in their church tend to be more trustworthy, open and generally nice people than your average Joe on the street.
They have never tried to actively proselytize with me either. I have been invited to their church on a few occasions, but they have always accepted my polite decline of the invitation with good grace.
Religions are simply different paths that lead to the same ultimate result, a life led on the basis of morally appropriate principles. Whether the religion believes that God takes human, bovine or inanimate form is quite irrelevant. Nitpicking the Mormon faith on the basis of minor incompatibilities with your absolute beliefs is rather self-defeating because overall it appears you actually like the people and are quite curious about what their community has achieved.
DIJKKIJK From France, joined Jul 2003, 1733 posts, RR: 5 Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1923 times:
A couple of mormon blokes once stopped me as I was going to work (Yes, they actually blocked my path and stopped me) . They were dressed like corporate CEOs, with full suit and tie, and were obviously from very rich families. They asked me about my religious practices and whether I believed in God. Upon knowing that I wasn't too religious, and therefore a priority case whose soul had to be saved pronto, they started their preaching with zeal. They gifted me a book of the mormon, which was hard bound and had high quality paper (yes, actually they gave it for free!) and told me all about it, ending the sermon by giving me a card with the address of their church on it.
All thsi time, they hadn't asked me who I was and what I did. After sermonising, when they finally did. I told them that I was a biophysicist doing cancer research, and that I firmly believed that life had evolved, and that all our ancestors were actually apes. After that I walked off.
I turned around after walking a few steps and they were talking angrily to each other, giving me dirty looks. Very odd!
Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
PA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1966 posts, RR: 25 Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1917 times:
The only thing worse than a visit by Mormons is a visit by Jehovah's Witnesses. They are both almost equally tenacious. However, I have a sure fire way of getting rid of both of them instantly. The moment they make their pitch, I tell them to wait one moment while I fetch my boyfriend. We'd both like to hear what they have to say. At this point, they politely say their goodbyes and leave voluntarily. Works every time. I've never had any of them try to "save" us. They are to frightened to be in the presence of homosexuals to stay.
MD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8474 posts, RR: 13 Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1902 times:
Quoting TedTAce (Reply 9): If yours is right, they are going to hell anyway so what does it matter?
Not necessarily. That's one of those murky issues.
Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 11): They were dressed like corporate CEOs, with full suit and tie, and were obviously from very rich families.
Not likely. They always dress nicely, sometimes in full suit and tie (which used to not be such an odd thing), but I often think of them as I usually see them: white dress shirt (often short-sleeved), tie (usually full windsor knot, I wonder if that's required), black pants, black shoes, and backpack for their books of mormon.
Starcruiser From United States of America, joined May 2004, 301 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1807 times:
I remember one time in particular two missionaries came to the small town in which I was living. I spent eight long years in that miserable place before finally getting back to the city. At any rate one Sunday the missionaries showed up at my church. Their "uniform" is hard to miss and it was late summer. Later that week they showed up at my door and I invited them in. Knowing a bit about their religion I knew not to offer them anything with caffeine or alcohol, so I asked if they would like some water, which they gladly took to cool off. Besides, both were young and away from home and I have always believed in hospitality. I listened to them, mentioned I had seen them at church and we had a nice visit but I told them I was quite happy with my Catholic faith.
They came back some days later on a Monday, and I again asked them in. I was preparing to watch Monday Night Football and suggested they take a break and watch the game too. They didn't stay when they realized I really was not interested in their faith, but both were very pleasant. Pity, as they would have enjoyed the game, I am sure. Actually, I never was sure why they returned a second time. I didn't think they did that.
LTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12673 posts, RR: 13 Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1785 times:
One thing I would suggest is not to fall into their traps, but be open to try to understand them. I am a lasped/inactive Roman Catholic, but try to understand various religions including other forms of Christianaty, Islam, Jewish and others, including their variances. From time to time in the past, I have been approached by seekers of new members to the Church of Latter-Day Saints.
When I was in Salt Lake City in September 1998, I took the tour of their headquaters and the Tabernacal (used by their famous choir). People could ask questions and listen to their message as to the basics of their faith. Later, when I visited their family history center, one of the best facilities in the world as to Americans, there were 2 young women whom were assisting me but also tried to put the pressure on me to learn about their faith. I polietly excused myself, realizing that I had to deal with some preaching to get further info.
My brother and his daugher work for a company owned by a LDS member. He has had been approached about learning about their faith but make it clear they were not interested. Do they have some cult like elements? Yes. Do they have some views and policies of thier faith that are discriminatory? Yes, for example only those in good faith can enter one of their Tabernacials for services. Non-mormons cannot attend a church wedding ceremony service. They do require one to prothlise for the faith, and do have some rules that are quirky. I do question a faith based on some farmer in Western NY State finding some golden tablets back in the early 1800's. The discovery occured in a place and time where there Christianity was in a boom time, with many deep belivers and very active in those faiths. Worse, was the terrible violence they forced to endure to practice their faith from narrowminded Christians of the time (so what else is new?), forcing them to move west, first to Illinois and eventually to Utah. The LDS wasn't perfect in it's early days either, with some major conflicts with and killing numerous Native Americans and the multiple wives (polygimay - although that was a time when women couldn't hold property or have their own wealth, nor vote and so on except via their husbands, father or brother, so marriage was the only way for an adult women to be legit).
On the GOOD side, active members of LDS are considered very honest with money. They have often been those whom ran casinos in Nevada before organized crime and later corporations became more involved. The CEO of Jet Blue is a LDS member. They don't believe in using alcohol, and try to limit access to it in places where they dominate the community and to limit abuse but don't stop others from access from purchasing. Best of all, they have an extensive community support/welfare system to help members whom are poor, like food distribution programs, housing help and so on.
UN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4288 posts, RR: 4 Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1757 times:
What relition ISN'T a cult?
I would disagree.
Cult is defined as "A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader. " At least in our context.
While I suppose church would fall under this defintion "A system or community of religious worship and ritual. " , it certainly doesn't fall into the first one.
1. The Catholic Church with 1.1 billion is definitely not life in an uncoventional manner, and those 1.1 billion certainly don't regard it as exteremist or false. or the other churches will hundreds of millions of members. My Church, likely with at least 30 million followers (Orthodox Church) doesn't have anything unconventional or exteremist or false.
Mormons don't either, which is amusing. They claim that Catholicism is too ritualistisc, but then LDS temples have some bizarre rituals going on inside them (hearsay from "anti-" sources, of course. It's "sacred not secret," so I've never been in a temple).