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User currently offlineL.1011 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 2209 posts, RR: 9
Posted (9 years 5 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1341 times:

I am starting this thread with a new perspective. Rather than bantering about specific leaders or issues, let's talk about our long term vision of religion and politics.

I know I have a reputation as a radical right-winger (I vividly remember Falcon's "L.1011: Seig Heil" thread on Airwhiners), but my views have changed. I'd like to describe those views for you, and I hope you will do the same.

I remain a fiscal conservative. I believe in a small, efficient government that works for its citizens. I believe that government welfare programs should focus on reestablishing people and returning them to financial help as quickly as possible. I believe in making sure that businesses and individuals have as much economic freedom as possible, while making sure that they cannot screw over the other. I believe that taxes should be as minimal as possible. Americans should never have to worry about their taxes. I believe that tax collection should not take a third of tax revenue. I believe that the US Dollar needs to be backed by a stable precious metal, to ensure that it is the hallmark of stability.

I believe that we need to restore true democracy in America. We need to solidfy the fact that government stems from the people, and the people, not the government are the ultimate sovereigns. That means making voting as simple as possible, ensuring that as many offices as possible are elected, not appointed, and that rights of recall and popular override extend to every last piece of government.

I believe that our military needs to be strong enough to win any battle, that is has the finest training and equipment available, and that our soldiers live as well as possible. I believe that we need to focus on security that works. I believe in free legal immigration, without the archaic quota system. I believe in strongly handling illegal immigration, but making the legal process simple and fast enough that most don't have a desire to illegally immigrate to begin with.

I believe that we need to repair our crumbling infrastructure. I believe in strong public transit, a world class national freight and passenger rail system, commercial aviation with real open skies, and general aviation that does not suffocate under FAA regulation. I believe in US merchant marine that does not struggle under archaic law. I believe in tough driver's tests and complete driver's education, to ensure that our roads are filled with good drivers. I believe that our road should be well-maintained and that arbitrary speed limits should be repealed. I believe that the airwaves are the people's property, and greedy media companies (I'm usually pro-business, but I'll gladly say that here) shouldn't be able to hoard it.

I believe that Americans should feel secure in their retirement, and that a government savings plan will not ultimately accomplish this. I believe that competition between healthcare companies is the real way to success. I believe that our schools need to teach academics and life skills, need to foster creativity and instill knowledge, and need to be the best in the world.

I believe that ultimately, only freedom rules all. Law and society must come to the realization that sex is not evil, or sinful, or anything negative. Sex is life, in its most primal form. True equality has not been achieved until every discriminatory action is done. That means the death knell has rung for affirmative action. When you buy a CD, the sound files on that disk are your property, and you can do whatever you want with them, as long as you extract no financial gain and give proper credit. Property rights must be absolute. The constant infringement of our privacy by government, business, and private citizens must stop. Abortion must be an option, but only when there is no possiblity of any suffering on the part of the child. This means it only occurs within the first 7 weeks, with drugs, and without abortion on demand. We must give cohabiting couples, straight and gay, legal recognition, but America is not ready for gay marriage. Arbitrary and illogical restrictions on recreational activities like fireworks and gambling must be repealed. Superbowl Sunday and the following Monday should be a national holiday. We need a Constitutional amendment that affirms every right we have, not that Congress won't take it away. That amend must clearly state every current written and assumed right. It must also have a provision that never allows it to be removed, replaced, circumvented, or weakened in any way. Institutionalized political correctness must end. America must sign the UN Convention on Children's Rights and codify it into law. We must clarify religious freedom as follows

Any and all religious symbols may be displayed on public property for the public use, such as parks and commons
No religious symbols will be displayed on government properties, such as city halls and courts
All students will be offered an unbiased look at all the religions at age 14 and allowed to choose one or none
Schools will endorse no prayers or religious ceremonies, but may use formerly religious symbols that have shifted to secularism including the phrases “God Bless America” and “Under God” (in the Pledge of Allegiance) and Moments of Silence
Students will be allowed to independently practice their religions during free periods or at all times if it does not exclude them from participating in and not disrupting classes

Laws which engage in scapegoating, and not problem solving, such as curfews, must be repealed. We must amend laws on policing, and stop rampant abuses of power. We need a realist drug policy. The responsible, safe use of relatively safe drugs such as marijuana (medical evidence indicates that not one single person has ever been directly killed by marijuana use) must be allowed, and the freed up resources must be used to fight the real problem, drug cartels and mafias, cocaine, heroin, ecstasy, angel dust, and more. We need to repeal restrictions on alcohol and toughen restrictions on tobacco. We need to ensure that gun use is safe and free. Second amendment rights will be clarified and fully protected in the aforementioned civil rights amendment.

We must reform our judicial system, so it provides real justice. We must place harsh restrictions on frivilrous lawsuits, and reform to judiciary to quell activist judges. We must be tough on crime, and do everything we can to stop it. The death penalty must exist. It must be swift, unpleasant, and must punish all crimes deserving of it. However, it must also be backed by irrefutable evidence.

We must protect our environment, in ways that allow us to continue to enjoy our lives. We must emphasize solutions that have really worked, such as encouraging private ownership of natural life. We must slowly, but surely abandon fossil fuels, using ethanol in our moving vehicles and whatever method is appropriate for power and industry. America must be at the forefront of science and discovery.

I am a Deist. My God is not an angry, hateful, vengeful narcicist like many religion's deities are. My God is an old watchkeeper, a creator, an afterlife leader, and a watchful eye. He doesn't flood planets for silly reasons, nor throw people out of gardens, nor battle with a fallen angel. He does not frown upon the free will he gave us. He has not chosen any people, nor does he require a church or synagogue or mosque. He requires no worship, just good deeds. He requires no clergy, he's our God just as much as any priest's or pastor's or rabbi's.

This entire post has come from my heart and mind, and I hope yours will too.

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1326 times:

After reading the title and then reading the post, I am a litte surprised about the contents, as it reveals more than the title suggests..

With some statements I agree, with others I do disagree. Coming to the religion topic:

Secularism is indeed very impotant. But the question is how to define it. Let me draw two ways you could:

1. Religion does not have any space in public (i.e. in government) - it is solely a private matter - hence no religion in the public sphere - the state should go against it

2. No discrimination according to religion in public, but religion is something good, as it guids your moral and rational behavior - the state should develop a framework in which religion - no matter what kind - can develop freely and without prejudice, while religion can be observed in public and it is not pushed back into the privat sphere. Here, an emphasis on religious pluralism can be observed.


Your point of view rather suits definition one, while I (born Hindu, "practicing atheist") rather prefer definition two (though I am not religious) and consider myself to be 100 % secularist (according to my own definition).

Hence, I am against the initiatives in terms of the seculaist laws in France. But I do prefer the American appoach of not having religious classes and applaud some initiatives of some German state govenments for replacing christian (ev/cath) religion classes with ethic classes.. ethics are important.


What do others say to these definitions? What would you criticize, do you have another approach, which approach do you subscribe? And what is your point of view on secularism?


User currently offlineNumberTwelve From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 1431 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1318 times:

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 1):
1. Religion does not have any space in public (i.e. in government) - it is solely a private matter - hence no religion in the public sphere - the state should go against it

2. No discrimination according to religion in public, but religion is something good, as it guids your moral and rational behavior - the state should develop a framework in which religion - no matter what kind - can develop freely and without prejudice, while religion can be observed in public and it is not pushed back into the privat sphere. Here, an emphasis on religious pluralism can be observed.

Totally agree with you, Mrniji. Religion is a private matter of each person and I as an agnostic person don't want my country to be identified with a special religious sign. People can do what they want but public and politics have to keep away from Religion.

You see what happens: Iran is fundamental muslim country, USA is fundamental christian country. This are 2 good reasons to say: no religions into politics.



signature censored by admin - so check my profile
User currently offlinePA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2006 posts, RR: 23
Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1293 times:
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It has only been since the extremely conservative evangelical christians hijacked the Republican Party during the Regan era, that we've had such a focus on religion and government in this country. Prior to this, Republicans were primarily focused on limiting the size of governement and economic issues, tending to shy away from any and all social issues. The Democratic Party had always been more closely tied to social issues and social justice. Because the Democratic party traditionally had the tacit support of most Catholics, Jews and Southern Black Churches, the predominantly southern and western white (redneck) evangelical christians started feeling as they didn't have a voice in government. This was a mistaken belief because the other religions never approached government to advance a particular religious view. It was only the evangelicals who decided to put their religious social agenda at the forefront of their political movement.

It's time we roll back the clock and push the evangelicals back under whatever rock they emerged from and keep religious views out of government. Let the Republicans return to trying to limit the size of governmend and pushing trickle-down Reganomic theories, while the Democrats continue championing social justice and keep trying to somewhat level the playing field between the economically disadvantaged and the Uber-wealthy.



It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1278 times:

Very interesting post L1011, and a great deal with which I agree - see, you're not such a fascist after all  Smile

I would agree with the proposal that the state keeps it's beady eye out of everyone's bedroom - what two (or more  Wink ) consenting adults (HUMANS, Kirkie) get up to in private is nobody's business but their own. I also believe that the era of the state-recognised religious marriage ceremony is over. Marriage in its legal, contractual sense should be performed and recognised only by the state, and any religious wedding ceremony should be seperate and have no bearing on the legal status of the union. A non-religious marriage should have exactly the same weight in law as a religious union, and the state must recognise the right of any two legal adults to enter into such a union.

I agree VERY much about the UN Convention on Children's Rights - that any civilised country has no ratified this after all these years, is a scandal.

I agree with Mrnji that religion is an entirely personal choice, and that overtly relgious manifestations in any form in public life are out of place - that includes swearing on Bibles or offering prayers at public events. Moments of silence are fine, in which anyone who so chooses may commune with their religion, but anything else is an imposition on those people who choose to remain non-religious. All state institutions should be religion-neutral and free from proseletyzation (sp?) in any form, but of course you cannot ban outward signs of religious affiliation, as this is a from of self-expression.

I disagree about gun ownership, but we've had that argument many times in this forum, everyone's views on the subject are well known.

I believe it is the duty of those fortunate enough not to need assistance in life not to begrudge assistance to those in need, and this should take the form of taxation of the wealthy. This is not redistribution of wealth, this is giving everyone the chance they deserve. It is our sense of social justice that seperates us from the animals - if we allow the strong to exploit the weak, we betray that which makes us special in the universe. We owe it to ourselves to try to make everyone the best person they can be. To this end I believe firmly in the universal availablity of medical treatment and education that is free at the point of use to anyone who needs it.

And I believe that donuts with holes in them aren't donuts at all !


User currently offlineMisbeehavin From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 914 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1270 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 4):
A non-religious marriage should have exactly the same weight in law as a religious union, and the state must recognise the right of any two legal adults to enter into such a union.

I don't think there should even a distinction between religious and non-religious marriages as far as the state is concerned. People should be free to have a ceremonial, religious wedding if they want. But the only one recognised by the state should be the one agreed to by contract. Same goes for divorce or dissolution. This would solve all kinds of problems.

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 4):
agree with Mrnji that religion is an entirely personal choice, and that overtly relgious manifestations in any form in public life are out of place - that includes swearing on Bibles or offering prayers at public events.

Definitely. As Frank Maloney so eloquently put it "Now, sit down, shut up, and do your fucking praying in private, like your shitting."


User currently offlineKyleLosAngeles From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 214 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1263 times:

L.1011,

I am curious about your change of opinion on several subjects.

It wasn't that long ago that your views were quite different. So it would not seem that they have 'evolved' over time. It almost seems like an event or an issue has caused to to reflect and come up with new ideas.

If that is true, what was the triggering event?



Happy 2006
User currently offlineL.1011 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 2209 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (9 years 5 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1249 times:

Quoting NumberTwelve (Reply 2):
USA is fundamental christian country. This are 2 good reasons to say: no religions into politics.

No, thankfully we aren't. http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_prac2.htm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 4):
that any civilised country has no ratified this after all these years, is a scandal.

I agree, but the reason the US did not ratify was because of the death penalty for minors. That has been overturned, so after the thorough review we usually give of treaties, that will pass. Hey, ask China, they've been excecuting minors while having ratified the thing anyway.

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 4):
I believe it is the duty of those fortunate enough not to need assistance in life not to begrudge assistance to those in need, and this should take the form of taxation of the wealthy.

I see your point, but my belief is that government should not be in the business of charity to begin with. Before I would tax the wealthy, I would require them to donate $x to charitable organizations.

Quoting KyleLosAngeles (Reply 6):
It wasn't that long ago that your views were quite different. So it would not seem that they have 'evolved' over time. It almost seems like an event or an issue has caused to to reflect and come up with new ideas.

If that is true, what was the triggering event?

Well, obviously our views evolve over time. There has been no triggering event, simply building knowledge. For example, for a long period of time, I thought that if you smoked a few joints, you were turned into a mindless zombie living in your parent's basement. Obviously, this is not the case, and I was rather surprised to learn that never has any death been attributed to marijuana in over 2000 years of medical history. However, this post probably represents my clearest statement of my views. Normally I give a quick commentary on issues at hand. Most of our discussions in the past few years have related to foreign policy issues. I continue to support the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, and I support President Bush, despite not agreeing with everything he says. I've never mentioned many of these views before, which is what probably gave you that impression.

However, I'd like to have this thread be more an expression of your own ideas than a discussion of mine.


User currently offlineL.1011 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 2209 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1214 times:

Just a clarification: When I refer to God in the first post as a "Creator", My belief is that God set the ball rolling with the big bang, and the Universe and life have evolved on their own since then. I am a staunch evolutionist.

User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5110 posts, RR: 21
Reply 9, posted (9 years 5 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1213 times:

A national holiday for the Superbowl? A bunch of overpaid guys playing a game? Don't we already have enough holidays celebrated by sitting on your butt eating fattening food and imbibing?

How about National Tolerance Day where we all put aside our differences and celebrate our similiarites?



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineL.1011 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 2209 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (9 years 5 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1209 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 9):
How about National Tolerance Day where we all put aside our differences and celebrate our similiarites?

That'll be about as successful as Administrative Professional's Day and you damned well know it.  Wink


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5110 posts, RR: 21
Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1205 times:

Got that right L.1011!

One can dream.........



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineAerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7189 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1178 times:

I am going to stick with what I would like to see in New Zealand.

I would like to see a more secular development of society with 'God' being iradicated from all Governmental doctrine, laws etc. Unless the person explicitly requests for it. This is going to happen here anyway, but I would hasten it.

I believe we should quit with the whole welfare state thing, if you were stupid enough to leave school early or get pregnant at 16 in a country that effectively offers the right to a free education then that's tough - perhaps you'll learn to make better decisions with your life when you don't have a cushion to fall back on to rest your lazy ass. Those on benefits have used and abused it for too long.

I would like to see a return to power of funding of infrastructure based on population. If Auckland needs a rail and public transport system or an upgrade to sewage etc it needs to be built. Auckland dominates the country, it is the economic powerhouse and needs to be kept in good order, or the whole country will go to shit.

I would like to see the whole Treaty of Waitangi thing resolved. Non maori New Zealanders are sick of being made second class citizens because of their ethnicity. It is not our fault that Maori were ripped off in the distant past. In the here and now we are all in the same boat. Maori subsidies and priority grades in education have not worked, they should be abolished and the apartheid regime brought down once and for all. We are one country, not two. One rule for all.

Get the whole law and order thing sorted before we all become vigilantes to do what the Police aren't doing, and sentencing people to real prison sentences, in poor conditions not the short term Holiday Camps we are currently running. Save money on prisoners, instead of the $65,000 per prisoner per year it costs the country to keep just feed them bread and water and give them a stone cell with a slab to sleep on and a toilet. Don't allow them to socialise with other criminals, it only gives them opportunity to organise more crime. Alternatively make each prisoner pay the $65,000 per year it costs them to keep them in jail. Taxpayers should not be paying for criminals to lead better lives within prison walls than they otherwise would on the outside. If you don't like it, don't commit the crime in the first place..


User currently offlineZak From Greenland, joined Sep 2003, 1993 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (9 years 5 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1165 times:

geez what happened to a.net? i dont read the bloody page for a few months and L1011 has turned into a commie, amazing!  Wink
it is good to see that someone else has seen the light at the end of the tunnel of ignorance  Smile (although it seems that a bunch of new right wingers have already taken up the vacant spot)



10=2
User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1185 times:

Woah!!! Do I have a lot of quotes to go on!!!
For a lot of things I'll agree with you. I think the bottom line is we need to get back to a

sensible government, not an over emoted and reactionary bunch of greedy a$$holes.

From: http://www.fiftiesweb.com/movies/movie-quotes-b.htm

Quote:
Bull Durham Movie Quotes (1988)

Kevin Costner (Crash Davis): Well, I believe in the soul, the cock, the pussy, the small of

a woman's back, the hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan

Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap. I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. I

believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated

hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas

morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that

last three days.

"I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone." Not exactly...

Quoting L.1011 (Thread starter):
long term vision of religion and politics

ROFLMAO!!! The problem is as far as I am concerned, there insin't something that can be

strategic enough. This came to me when I was thinking about how to achieve immortality. Now

I KNOW there is now way I can physically do it with my body so stop thiking I'm looking for

Vampires!! I was thinking what could I create that would last forever? I thought of a well

protected case full of CD's DVD's with my life's works would be great, but how do you

protect it FOREVER?? Given that the Earth is going to die eventually you think, ok great,

launch the Fu¢ker into space, and there it will stay... Nice dream... the problem is that

EVENTUALLY the universe is supposed to collapse, thus sucking my cannister into a sea of

melting hot magma and god knows what, end of story. I think we all forget our almost daily

lessons on the cyclic nature of 'nature'. this is all going to pass,we are all going to die,

and that should simply be that

Quoting L.1011 (Thread starter):
I remain a fiscal conservative. I believe in a small, efficient

government that works for its citizens. I believe that government welfare programs should

focus on reestablishing people and returning them to financial help as quickly as

possible.

"returning them to financial" I believe you meant from, not to  Smile

Quoting L.1011 (Thread starter):
I believe that taxes should be as minimal as possible.

I think

overall taxes should be reflective of the value of the services our government gives us.

Federally sponsored local boondogles for senatorial buddies/contirbutors are a farce!!

Quoting L.1011 (Thread starter):
I believe that tax collection should not take a third of tax

revenue.

Yeah, we should be getting a LOT more value then this!!

Quoting L.1011 (Thread starter):
That means making voting as simple as possible, ensuring that as many

offices as possible are elected, not appointed, and that rights of recall and popular

override extend to every last piece of government.

"making voting as simple as

possible" This is a bear.. especially when you think about the lines that people have had to

wait in for the last two presidential elections. This might be a reason I'd go for a

"National Secure ID" This way you'd have your '256MB' not just 256btye encrypted 'key' and

you could use it to vote VERY securely from home. I'd love to see us move towards a more

direct democracy, oh but then what will these poor scumbag politicians do for a living?!?!

Hey maybe we can have them do tech support in India!!!

Quoting L.1011 (Thread starter):
I believe in free legal immigration

Hummmmm Damn this is a tough one.. I think we have too many people here as it is, and with

most of these people already here 'doubling' over the next 10 or so years it's tough to

think of making more room.. On the other hand you have people who come here and make VERY

good contributions to society.. I think that if we could figure out some form of easily

practicable lithmus test on an individuals value to society after they have been here for a

few years we might have something I can agree to.

Quoting L.1011 (Thread starter):
I believe in strong public transit, a world class national freight and

passenger rail system

Public transit, will be the only way we will be able to get around(reasonably) any city of

consequence in a few (10-20) years. See my thread on changing airports and my idea for KMIA.

Quoting L.1011 (Thread starter):
I believe in tough driver's tests and complete driver's education, to

ensure that our roads are filled with good drivers.

I agree, driving is a privledge,

not a right!! Take the community bus to the resturant for your early bird meal and save

EVERYONE something!!!

Quoting L.1011 (Thread starter):
arbitrary speed limits should be repealed

Most speed limits are not arbitrary. 55 is long gone, so we can't talk about this in a

federal context. Most speed limits are designated by road engineers, and are usually

relevant to the road conditions that are more then less permanent.

A good example of this turn speeds for radial exit ramps. I know there is a turn where I can

easily eclipse the speed given and pin the kids to the side of the back seat. However, the

truth of the matter is, that if I did the suggested speed, and had a blow out, the

environmental issue of a proximal lake would probably not come into play, as I wouldn't have

enough speed to make it there.

Let's take a '65' speed limit mosts states have on the major highways away from urban areas.

Most of the time, these are 4 lane divided highways. Some are ONLY divided by grass, and I

dunno if you have tried to stop or change direction @ 65 in grass lately, but it's not easy.

Can you say head-on @ 100+ miles an hour? If you don't believe me keep looking @

www.wesh.com and see how many people are killed in crossovers here. Are you going to pay the

1000's of dollars a mile it would take to eliminate this kind of accident?

Yes I agree personal responsibility and good driving should be hallmarks of a safer, faster

system, the problem is "$hit happens"

Quoting L.1011 (Thread starter):
I believe that competition between healthcare companies is the real

way to success

There is competition, this has failed miserably. I think the only

reason a Federal medical system is impossible in the US is the VERY WARRANTED lack of trust

in the government's ability to deliver services that would overall save the country money.

If there was a way to ensure this was done ethically I think it'd work like a charm!!

Quoting L.1011 (Thread starter):
When you buy a CD, the sound files on that disk are your property, and

you can do whatever you want with them, as long as you extract no financial gain and give

proper credit.

I agree in principality. I think that artists should post their music online for free. If

someone wants to "do the right thing becasue" buy a song the artists should get the $1 for

it, and if someone wants to buy the entire CD of an artists, they should be able to do so at

a REASONABLE cost. I know for myself that I take a LOT of pride in owning albums of the

artists I genuinely love.

Quoting L.1011 (Thread starter):
must be an option, but only when there is no possiblity of any

suffering on the part of the child. This means it only occurs within the first 7 weeks, with

drugs, and without abortion on demand.

"when there is no possiblity of any suffering on the part of the child." Can I have can of

worms for $100 Alex? I agree that in principle abortion is wrong, but I don't think it's

anyone's business when/how/why. If professionals provide a treatment that is safe for the

mother (that she is comfortable with), and the professionals involved in are comfortable

with it's NO ONE'S BUSINESS. This whole thing with religious right to lifers Fu¢king with

people involved in this has to stop. These people say they have to save the fetuses to save

the mother's soul... it's Fu¢king Ludicrous!!! It's like the argument I have against the

death penalty, and all other religious based legislation (though I believe in the death

penalty ultimately) If we truly children of God what right do we have to take the life

of/legislate the conduct of/ or otherwise mess with people based on religion? Here's the

doozy of a question I have yet to have answered really well: Why isin't Eternal damnation

enough??

Quoting L.1011 (Thread starter):
Superbowl Sunday and the following Monday should be a national

holiday.

I agree!! We need a national holiday that is based on a current event, and need!! Either

make the Superbowl on a Saturday (Gasp, blasphemy, etc.) or give us a day to get over it!!

Quoting L.1011 (Thread starter):
Arbitrary and illogical restrictions on recreational activities


I agree in principal, however, I think there ultimately should only be 1 rule.

Don't do something that fu¢k with someone elses ability to life there life as if you had

never had a part in it. So if you get high on heroine and stay home all day, but somehow can

not affect anyone by doing it, go for it!! The second you get in your car high on anything,

and kill/mame/injure(genuinely) anyone else, your going to suffer a penalty simillar to what

you inflicted.

Quoting L.1011 (Thread starter):
We need a Constitutional amendment

Quoting Sponge Bob after being told by 'Plankton' that Plankton 'was working on his plan to

rule the world'
"Good luck with that"

Quoting L.1011 (Thread starter):
UN Convention on Children's Rights

I was stunned when I initially saw this, but I checked the unicef site out and saw that we

are indeed going to ratify it, then I saw:

Quoting L.1011 (Reply 7):
because of the death penalty for minors

Old GW and his 'policy of life' How many Texas death row inmates are dead under Bush

again?? Oh that's right, they "weren't innocent" Thanks for Playing God GW, no go the FU¢K

AWAY!!

Quoting L.1011 (Thread starter):
No religious symbols will be displayed on government properties, such

as city halls and courts

I would add "such that don't already exist"
Removing these symbols (as offensive as they may be) is errily simillar to the revising of

history. If eventually the time comes that a county/state/federal courthouse/building is

unsuitable for habitation, and must be destroyed for practical pourposes, a new buidling

that is secular in nature must replace it and a provision for preserving as best possible,

the previous buildings artwork made.

Quoting L.1011 (Thread starter):
All students will be offered an unbiased look at all the religions at

age 14 and allowed to choose one or none

I would leave it at this: All students will be offered an unbiased look at all the religions

at age 14.
Saying "and allowed to " makes it sound like it's a priviledge. It also sounds like the

choice must be made at 14 and 'that's it'. I doubt this was your intention given your ever

evolving points of view (as are mine). but i just wanted to ensure this was clarified.

Quoting L.1011 (Thread starter):
but may use formerly religious symbols that have shifted to secularism

including the phrases “God Bless America” and “Under God” (in the Pledge of Allegiance)


I would say people should have a choice to pay their respects to the United States in any

manner they see fit, if they want to say God, that is their choice, if they don't, same

thing..so be it. Burning the flag...as much as I don't like it...so be it..

Quoting L.1011 (Thread starter):
We must amend laws on policing, and stop rampant abuses of power. We

need a realist drug policy.

Rampant abuses of power, how's Tom DeLay doing again?? I think there need to be SEVERE

punnishments for violating the public's trust. MAYBE his actions were entirely legal, but

taking trips from PAC's it clearly a violation of trust!! FRY his A$$!!!

Quoting L.1011 (Thread starter):
toughen restrictions on tobacco

I agree with where this come

from, and as far as in public goes, and advertising I whole heartedly agree, but what

someone wants to do with themselves in their house is their problem (Clearing throat) so

long as I don't have to pay for their medical bills...

Quoting L.1011 (Thread starter):
We need to ensure that gun use is safe and free.

I guess this

goes back to my statment on drugs as a whole.. you shoot someone in your house/business/car

who clearly doesn't belong there, good for you. I think though that parents ought to face

the death penalty(by gun) for leaving guns where children can and do kill themselves and

others. We also need to make owners liable for the results when it has been lost form their

control, loan your gun to person A, and person A kills someone, (regardless of your

knowledge of their intent) you get a same place position with person A on the firing squad.
Loose your gun for whatever reason report it stolen immediately and your penality is

reduced, but there must be a price to be paid for 'loosing a gun'

Quoting L.1011 (Thread starter):
We must place harsh restrictions on frivilrous lawsuits, and reform to

judiciary to quell activist judges.

You had me up to the activist judges thing..

What about 'in-activist' judges a-la shaivo and what about 'activist congresspersons'?

Judges that clearly make horrible consistantly un-constitutional decisions that are always

being overturned, should be removed, of that there is no arguing. But just because a case or

two that you happen to not like is dealt with in a manner inconsistant with what you think

is consitutional?? Give me a break!!

Quoting L.1011 (Thread starter):
The death penalty must exist. It must be swift, unpleasant, and must

punish all crimes deserving of it. However, it must also be backed by irrefutable

evidence.

I'll stick with the unpleasant and irrefutable evidence part. How many

people did that Turd who did the Oklahoma bombing kill? What was his reward?? Two quarts of

Mint Chocolate Chip (ruining my favorite by the way) and a pleasant go to sleep forever

nap... If I'm ever like Terri Schivao, I wanna go out by lethal injection, not starving..and

the fact that these a$$holes get this kind of sterile death is why I think the death penalty

is wholly inneffective as a deterrent. Not to mention the 3 quares a day and a nice room

most of these guys get for 10+ years on average. Don't get me wrong, I believe in due

process and having the evidence being as indisputable as possible,but how long does that

have to take?

Quoting L.1011 (Thread starter):
We must protect our environment, in ways that allow us to continue to

enjoy our lives

Yeah "Safe" drilling, um ok..

Quoting L.1011 (Thread starter):
We must slowly, but surely abandon fossil fuels, using ethanol in our

moving vehicles and whatever method is appropriate for power and industry. America must be

at the forefront of science and discovery.

I don't think there is a slowly about

it!! We need to leave petrol like rats off sinking ships!!! Then I would love to see what

the arabic countries would be doing for our money ....tourisim?!?! ROFLMAO!!! A bunch of

Arabs screaming jihad one day, and 'if you look to your left you will see...' the next, I'd

love it!! Oh and let's not forget the other bonus, take away the 'oil' argument for invading

other countries!!!

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 1):
religion is something good, as it guids your moral and rational

behavior -

Nope.. being loved, and tought right from wrong in the first place is perfectly fine.

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 1):
can develop freely and without prejudice

Ummm diferences in religion are all about prejudice last time I checked.

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 1):
German state govenments for replacing christian (ev/cath) religion

classes with ethic classes.. ethics are important.

Ethics are EVERYTHING!!! Morals are too plyable..

Quoting NumberTwelve (Reply 2):
You see what happens: Iran is fundamental muslim country, USA is

fundamental christian country. This are 2 good reasons to say: no religions into

politics.

How many wars have been stopped because of religion: 0

Quoting PA110 (Reply 3):
It's time we roll back the clock and push the evangelicals back under

whatever rock they emerged from and keep religious views out of government

roll

back's are for wallmart, let's keep moving forward out of the dark ages is the route I'd

pursue here  Wink

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 4):
A non-religious marriage should have exactly the same weight in law as

a religious union, and the state must recognise the right of any two legal adults to enter

into such a union.

Absolutely correct SIR!!!

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 4):
This is not redistribution of wealth, this is giving everyone the

chance they deserve.

ummm it is a redistribution of weath no matter what you call it, the problem is that the

wealthy shouldn't fear it.
I have asked before: Who (individually) NEEDS to make more then $1million/year in this day

and age???

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 4):
It is our sense of social justice that seperates us from the animals -

if we allow the strong to exploit the weak, we betray that which makes us special in the

universe.

From: http://movie-reviews.colossus.net/movies/r/runaway.html
"quote from Shakespeare's "Richard III" that reinforces another of the film's themes about

the animalistic nature of human beings: "No beast so fierce but knows some touch of pity.

But I know none, and therefore am no beast." "

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 4):
To this end I believe firmly in the universal availablity of medical

treatment and education that is free at the point of use to anyone who needs it.

Once

again, if only we could take our heads out of our a$$es and do it ethically in the US!!!

Quoting Misbeehavin (Reply 5):
As Frank Maloney so eloquently put it "Now, sit down, shut up,

and do your fucking praying in private, like your shitting."

ROFLMAO!!

Quoting L.1011 (Reply 7):
Before I would tax the wealthy, I would require them to donate $x to

charitable organizations.

humm sounds like you are re-complicating the tax system.

Quoting L.1011 (Reply 7):
I thought that if you smoked a few joints, you were turned into a

mindless zombie living in your parent's basement

So that explains my life

from 16-25!!

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 9):
A national holiday for the Superbowl? A bunch of overpaid guys

playing a game? Don't we already have enough holidays celebrated by sitting on your butt

eating fattening food and imbibing?

How about National Tolerance Day where we all put aside our differences and celebrate our

similiarites?

enough holidays= NO
"Day where we" ummm why not have it EVERY day?!?! Maybe we could have a off were we are

encouraged to attend multicultural events to gain a deeper appreciation of them, but we

should put aside our differences and celebrate our similiarites EVERY DAY!!

Quoting Aerorobnz (Reply 12):
I believe we should quit with the whole welfare state thing, if

you were stupid enough to leave school early or get pregnant at 16 in a country that

effectively offers the right to a free education then that's tough - perhaps you'll learn to

make better decisions with your life when you don't have a cushion to fall back on to rest

your lazy ass. Those on benefits have used and abused it for too long.

Thanks for raising this point!!

The US needs to have a national referrendum on wether or not this is a welfare state once

every 10 years. If we vote that we are not, all social programs go Buh By (be nice if I

could get my money back out of social security that I know I'm not going to get anyway).
I think 10 years ought to prove the point one way or the other...


User currently offlineL.1011 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 2209 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (9 years 5 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1162 times:

Quoting Zak (Reply 13):
geez what happened to a.net? i dont read the bloody page for a few months and L1011 has turned into a commie, amazing!
it is good to see that someone else has seen the light at the end of the tunnel of ignorance (although it seems that a bunch of new right wingers have already taken up the vacant spot)

I'm not a commie, I'm a libertarian.  Silly

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 14):
"returning them to financial" I believe you meant from, not to

I meant restoring them to financial health, not help.


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