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US Sends Warning To Iran--Sells Israel Weapons  
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1856 times:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...7/ap_on_re_mi_ea/us_israel_bombs_1

U.S. OKs Bunker Buster Bombs for Israel

The Bush administration has authorized the sale of as many as 100 large bunker-buster bombs to Israel. One expert said the move should serve as a warning to Iranians with nuclear ambitions.

The proposed deal, worth as much as $30 million, would provide Israel with the capability to drop 5,000-pound bombs that can penetrate bunkers and other buried structures. The GBU-28 bombs can be dropped from Israel's American-made F-15 fighters.

"This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a friendly country that has been, and continues to be, an important force for economic progress in the Middle East," the Pentagon's Defense Security Cooperation Agency said in a press release.

Although the proposed sale will give Israel a significant new capability to attack underground targets, the agency said the move would not upset the balance of military power in the region.

"The Israelis want to be able to attack Iran's underground nuclear weapons facilities," said John Pike, a military expert at Globalsecurity.org in Alexandria, Va.

The propose sale should give notice to Tehran that the United States will not allow Iran to become a nuclear power if diplomatic efforts fail, he said.

66 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1837 times:

Slightly off topic, what is the story on Israel's nukes? Myth?


The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11445 posts, RR: 76
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1830 times:
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Lehpron
There is no real proof that Israel has nuclear weapons, but it is accepted as fact by most parties, and the Israelis do not spend any time trying to deny it.
The story is that the CIA arranged for the hijacking of a nuclear material transport shipment from SRP back in 68 or so, and handed the necessary materials over to the Mossad. Now, this is conjecture, but the Israelis are known to have cooperated in the South African nuclear weapons development during the 70s. The alleged special weapons are stored at an air base in ISrael, supposedly ready to be used in case of attack as a means of ultimate defense in case of being overrun by invaders.

An former engineer for the IDFAF came out a few years ago and denounced the program and was thrown in jail for talking about it, so that gives some indication that the Israelis are serious about it.

I think that if Iran develops a weapon and gets to the point of testing it you will see a very ugly exchange in the region.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineJutes85 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1826 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
The Bush administration has authorized the sale of as many as 100 large bunker-buster bombs to Israel. One expert said the move should serve as a warning to Iranians with nuclear ambitions.

 stirthepot 

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 1):
Slightly off topic, what is the story on Israel's nukes? Myth?

I beleive that they have never said officialy that they have nukes. Even if they have or haven't, its obvious that they do.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1826 times:

Quoting DL021 (Reply 2):
An former engineer for the IDFAF came out a few years ago and denounced the program and was thrown in jail for talking about it, so that gives some indication that the Israelis are serious about it.

He did not just denounce it, and it was not a "few years" ago. He was in jail for over a decade and actually knew of what was happening because he saw it with his own eyes. He even documented it.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 2):
I think that if Iran develops a weapon and gets to the point of testing it you will see a very ugly exchange in the region.

Which there is no evidence that they are doing

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
"The Israelis want to be able to attack Iran's underground nuclear weapons facilities,"

That don't exist

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
The propose sale should give notice to Tehran that the United States will not allow Iran to become a nuclear power if diplomatic efforts fail, he said.

As opposed to allowing Israel to be a nuclear power?

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
"This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States

Not in any way



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineGreyhound From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1026 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1806 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 4):
As opposed to allowing Israel to be a nuclear power?

Would someone like to explain why the U.S. would care more that Israel was a nuclear power as opposed to Iran? Just wondering there.

Maybe we can have France help out Iran with their nuclear program(s). Just like they did for Saddam, when they built those two reactors for him, before Israel bombed one and the other didn't have a happy ending either....

www.lexnotes.com/misc/jacques_iraq.htm



29th, Let's Go!
User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11445 posts, RR: 76
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1802 times:
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Quoting N1120A (Reply 4):
Which there is no evidence that they are doing

YEs,,there is. You choose to interpret it differently, but its there.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 4):
That don't exist

Of course they exist....the Iranians bragged that their facilities were underground and impervious to detection or elimination.

Quoting Greyhound (Reply 5):
Would someone like to explain why the U.S. would care more that Israel was a nuclear power as opposed to Iran? Just wondering there.

Israel, if they are a nuclear power (and I think they are), has had these devices for over 30 years and not used them. They developed them while under siege on all sides as a doomsday device.

The Iranians are not in a similar position and have expressed a desire to see the destruction of other governments for religious reasons. I think that there is a difference.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineGreyhound From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1026 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1793 times:

I know the U.S. would obviously care that Iran had nukes.... I wasn't wondering about that.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 4):
Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
The propose sale should give notice to Tehran that the United States will not allow Iran to become a nuclear power if diplomatic efforts fail, he said.

As opposed to allowing Israel to be a nuclear power?

Maybe I should have put that in my first post as my issue of concern. I know very well why Israel would want (and in my opinion should want) nuclear weapons...



29th, Let's Go!
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1786 times:

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 1):
Slightly off topic, what is the story on Israel's nukes? Myth?

They developed them in the late 60s in the event that something like the Yom Kippur war happened. In the Yom Kippur war, Egypt and Syria knew that they could only go so far before Israel nuked them and indeed that was a distinct possibility (The United States has only gone to Defcon III twice, in the Cuban Missile Crisis and during the Yom Kippur war).

Quoting DL021 (Reply 2):
Lehpron
There is no real proof that Israel has nuclear weapons, but it is accepted as fact by most parties, and the Israelis do not spend any time trying to deny it.
The story is that the CIA arranged for the hijacking of a nuclear material transport shipment from SRP back in 68 or so, and handed the necessary materials over to the Mossad. Now, this is conjecture, but the Israelis are known to have cooperated in the South African nuclear weapons development during the 70s. The alleged special weapons are stored at an air base in ISrael, supposedly ready to be used in case of attack as a means of ultimate defense in case of being overrun by invaders.

Hmm, I've read different accounts of it, but in essence yes, they got the nuclear material from a plant in Apollo, Pennsylvania.

And yes, Israel did help South Africa with their weapons program although South Africa eventually abandoned it. Israel is also rumored to have several submarines armed with nuclear missiles as a second means of attack in the case that a nuclear bomb ever landed on Israel.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 4):
Which there is no evidence that they are doing

Uh huh.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 4):
That don't exist

Despite the Iranian government proclaming that they do?

Quoting DL021 (Reply 2):
I think that if Iran develops a weapon and gets to the point of testing it you will see a very ugly exchange in the region.

I don't think it will go that far; Israel will never allow Iran to develop a nuclear weapon.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1746 times:

Quoting Greyhound (Reply 5):
Maybe we can have France help out Iran with their nuclear program(s).

You mean like the US did with Iran?

Quoting Greyhound (Reply 5):
Would someone like to explain why the U.S. would care more that Israel was a nuclear power as opposed to Iran? Just wondering there.

Because Israel has been show to be hostile to neighboring countries while Iran has not. They did not even attack Afghanistan when the Taliban committed a clear act of war

Quoting DL021 (Reply 6):
have expressed a desire to see the destruction of other governments for religious reasons.

Much like Israel.

Quoting Greyhound (Reply 7):
I know very well why Israel would want (and in my opinion should want) nuclear weapons...

With that logic, Iran should want nuclear weapons as well, considering that a neighbor that has committed hostile action in the past has them

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 8):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 4):
That don't exist

Despite the Iranian government proclaming that they do?

Proclamation and actual existance are two different things. Sort of like Israel making no claim to nuclear weapon possession



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineGreyhound From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1026 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1735 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
Quoting DL021 (Reply 6):
have expressed a desire to see the destruction of other governments for religious reasons.

Much like Israel.

Israel wants to destroy other countries for religious reasons... couldn't have anything to do with the fact that your Islamic buddies in the region think Israel shouldn't even exist, now could it? They definetly don't want to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth. That's why Syria, Egypt, and Jordan never tried to invade, overpower, and obliterate Israel. Oh, wait a second.......

Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
Quoting Greyhound (Reply 5):
Maybe we can have France help out Iran with their nuclear program(s).

You mean like the US did with Iran?

True, I guess in some ways our countries are alot alike... politicians in both places will sell weapons to whomever, criminal, dictator or not, just to make a buck.

And in case I'm missing something, which I might indeed be, when did we ever build two reactors for them? Or at least, when did we supply nuclear material? I'm not saying you're wrong or right N1120A, but it's not exactly something I'm privy to. That's all.

If we did, God only knows why we'd do a dumba$$ thing like that, except for someone in our government looking to get a payoff somehow. But besides us... why did France build a couple reactors for Saddam? For "peaceful energy" programs? I'd definetly trust (cough, cough) someone who'll attack his neighbors (i.e. Iran), torture his countrymen and gas people (the Kurds) when it suits him. In all honesty N1120A, I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything. I couldn't figure out why the U.S. would do that with Iran. When we were trying to keep the Shah in power, I could see us doing something stupid like that (not condoning it). I mean after all, we did sell them some F-14s and were going to sell them 4 Spruance class destroyers before we axed that one. But I just haven't heard of us working with Iran's nuclear program.

I thought Russia was the one helping Iran with it's nuclear ambitions.



29th, Let's Go!
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1718 times:

Quoting Greyhound (Reply 10):
Israel wants to destroy other countries for religious reasons... couldn't have anything to do with the fact that your Islamic buddies in the region think Israel shouldn't even exist, now could it?

I wonder if that has anything to do with partitioning of an area of the world where they have lived for their whole existance as opposed to where some have been for only 57 years at the point of a gun

Quoting Greyhound (Reply 10):
They definetly don't want to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth.

Sort of like Israel did with Palestine?

Quoting Greyhound (Reply 10):
True, I guess in some ways our countries are alot alike...

Man, you really need to read closer. I realize you are new, but this has come up since you have been here.

Quoting Greyhound (Reply 10):
politicians in both places will sell weapons to whomever, criminal, dictator or not, just to make a buck.

Actually, it seems a lot like politicians in the US are more willing to sell weapons to criminals and dictators more than they are to democratic, non-religious based regimes. BTW, building energy producers (the type of which I think are bad, even in their peaceful purpose) is not selling weapons.

Quoting Greyhound (Reply 10):
And in case I'm missing something, which I might indeed be, when did we ever build two reactors for them?

The US built Iran's only, and still incomplete, nuclear reactor. Construction was suspended during the revolution in the final stages.

Quoting Greyhound (Reply 10):
If we did, God only knows why we'd do a dumba$$ thing like that, except for someone in our government looking to get a payoff somehow.

Actually, the really dumba$$ thing the US did was pushing a democracy out of power in Iran and then trying to prop up a dictator.

Quoting Greyhound (Reply 10):
why did France build a couple reactors for Saddam? For "peaceful energy" programs?

Because they were doing them for peaceful energy purposes

Quoting Greyhound (Reply 10):
someone who'll attack his neighbors (i.e. Iran),

Much like Israel (i.e. Lebanon)

Quoting Greyhound (Reply 10):
I mean after all, we did sell them some F-14s

To a friendly government that we (the US, figure it out now??) were keeping as a much stronger sphere of influence than an Israeli regime we were trying to distance from.

Quoting Greyhound (Reply 10):
I thought Russia was the one helping Iran with it's nuclear ambitions.

Russia has been very responsible in its aid of Iran in energy production, including stringant controls on materials.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineLY744 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 5536 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1684 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 8):
Hmm, I've read different accounts of it, but in essence yes, they got the nuclear material from a plant in Apollo, Pennsylvania.

Israel's nuclear program dates back to the 50's, and was started with the direct logistical support of... France.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
Quoting DL021 (Reply 6):
have expressed a desire to see the destruction of other governments for religious reasons.

Much like Israel.

Most of your other arguments were reasonalbe, but the one above is far from it. Israel has never advertised a desire to wipe out any particular nation for any particular reason. It's neighbours have on countless occasions. We're talking alliance formed for that explicit purpose, a number of acts of war etc.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
With that logic, Iran should want nuclear weapons as well, considering that a neighbor that has committed hostile action in the past has them

Israel is not Iran's neigbhour. It has not commited any aggression against Iran. Iran has (through it's open support to certain organizations). Hell Israel and Iran used to be pretty tight, even in the first few years after Iran's revolution.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
Sort of like Israel did with Palestine?

Um, right... Some wiping out that was, huh?

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):

Quoting Greyhound (Reply 10):
someone who'll attack his neighbors (i.e. Iran),

Much like Israel (i.e. Lebanon)

You know how it is, the Israelis get bored so they invade random neighbours for no reason at all.  Yeah sure


LY744.



Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
User currently offlineDC10GUY From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 2685 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1658 times:

I'll bet that if Iran had Israel's military power, Israeli would have been melted long ago. Its a credit to Israeli that they operated with great restraint. That may change.


Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
User currently offlineAA777 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 2541 posts, RR: 28
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1655 times:
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Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
The Israelis want to be able to attack Iran's underground nuclear weapons facilities

LOL...what happened the LAST time the Bush Administration said that another country had WMD? We attacked Iraq and WHOOOOPS, guess our intelligence was bad boys!
LOLLLLLLLL HAHAHHAHA

Bush and his cronies are LAUGHABLE, IMO. Absolutely ridiculous.

-AA777


User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1633 times:

Heard stories that SA nuclear weapons where sent to Israel before ANC become ruling party.

User currently offlineQR332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1611 times:

Quoting Greyhound (Reply 5):
Maybe we can have France help out Iran with their nuclear program(s). Just like they did for Saddam, when they built those two reactors for him, before Israel bombed one and the other didn't have a happy ending either....

True France helped Iraq build nuclear power plants (which aren't weapons but i'm sure Saddam would have eventually gotten there), but do you seriously think the US was any better? Where do you think Saddam got the weapons he used to gas the Kurds? Who do you think supported him in the 70s and 80s? Yep, the good old US of A.

Quoting Greyhound (Reply 7):
Maybe I should have put that in my first post as my issue of concern. I know very well why Israel would want (and in my opinion should want) nuclear weapons...

So why shouldn't Iran want them? Their neighbour (Iraq) had been invaded for no good reason, don't you think Iran would be worried about suffering a similar fate?

Quoting DL021 (Reply 6):
The Iranians are not in a similar position and have expressed a desire to see the destruction of other governments for religious reasons. I think that there is a difference.

Read above. They are not in the same position Israel was in, but they are in a tight spot, because Bush has made it pretty clear he would invade a country for no good reasons, and he had labelled Iran as a part of the "Axis of Evil".

Quoting Greyhound (Reply 10):
Israel wants to destroy other countries for religious reasons... couldn't have anything to do with the fact that your Islamic buddies in the region think Israel shouldn't even exist, now could it? They definetly don't want to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth. That's why Syria, Egypt, and Jordan never tried to invade, overpower, and obliterate Israel. Oh, wait a second.......

Oh, wait a second...

Didn't Israel sort of steal this area known as the Golan Heights from Syria?

Didn't Israel sort of attack the West Bank, which was officially part of Jordan in 1967? It was Israel who attacked Jordan, not the other way around.

As for Egypt, Sinai ring a bell? And now the US is the only country allowed to come to the aid of its allies?  sarcastic 

Quoting LY744 (Reply 12):
Um, right... Some wiping out that was, huh?

Umm, the exodus of 800,000 Palestinians does not count now? They basically pushed out the entire native population of what is Israel today and threw them out by force, not to mention the amount of massacres that took place at the hands of Israeli forces.


User currently offlineCedarWings From Lebanon, joined exactly 10 years ago today! , 216 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1589 times:

US Sends Warning To Iran--Sells Israel Weapons

Why should the US warns Teheran before sending (and not selling) weapons to Israel ?
Where is the news?
The US has been doing so for decades!

I think you mistyped your subject, you probably wanted to say:

Russia sends warning to Israel -- Sells Syria and palestine weapons.



I didn't say it would be easy. I just said it would be the truth
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1571 times:

Quoting QR332 (Reply 16):
So why shouldn't Iran want them? Their neighbour (Iraq) had been invaded for no good reason, don't you think Iran would be worried about suffering a similar fate?

It really saddens me that an Arab like you can still say that the US invaded Iraq for "no good reason".

Quoting CedarWings (Reply 17):
Why should the US warns Teheran before sending (and not selling) weapons to Israel ?
Where is the news?
The US has been doing so for decades!

The news was in how specific they were in talking about selling bunker busting missiles to Israel and in the same press release mentioning Iran's bunkers.

Quoting CedarWings (Reply 17):
Russia sends warning to Israel -- Sells Syria and palestine weapons.

Nonsense. Russia refused to sell longrange weapons to Syria because of Israel's security concerns. Israel is not allowing Russia to sell APCs to Palestine because Abbas has yet to reign in his militants. And above all else, Putin just had a very succesful trip to Israel.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1560 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 18):
It really saddens me that an Arab like you can still say that the US invaded Iraq for "no good reason".

An Arab like him huh? How about an Iranian like me? Perhaps I should be happy that my home country is plotting to destroy my father's country of birth and one of my countries of nationality? Perhaps I should be dropping to my knees thanking the "good" lord if the US invades Iran and overthrows the government?? Oh, wait, they did that and it caused the last 52 years of dictatorship. The US invaded Iraq based on claims that Iraq possessed Weapons of Mass Destruction and that it was not turning them over to UN authorities. The truth is that inspectors found no such weapons, the US went in anyway and now claim the whole thing was to "liberate the Iraqi people." That is garbage, and you should know that. It is really sad that you are so blind to this. It is sort of like the CIA overthrow of Mossadeq under the pretense that he was a "commie bastard" supporing the Soviet Union, when he had no such plan and was committed to the relationship Iran had with the West, just was not willing to allow Iran's oil economy to be raped by the Anglo-Persian Oil Company. And the worst thing about it all is that because the Shah fell, Israel, an also ran in US policy, became such a focus.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1555 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 18):
It really saddens me that an Arab like you can still say that the US invaded Iraq for "no good reason".

Why should all Arabs be happy about the fact that Iraq turned into the worldwide no.1 center of terrorists after that "invasion"? Innocent people are blown up and hijacked every day and the "liberation forces" cannot protect them, what's positive about that?


Regards
Udo


User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1547 times:

wrong thread . Embarrassment

[Edited 2005-05-01 23:04:03]


The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1530 times:

Quoting Udo (Reply 20):
Why should all Arabs be happy about the fact that Iraq turned into the worldwide no.1 center of terrorists after that "invasion"? Innocent people are blown up and hijacked every day and the "liberation forces" cannot protect them, what's positive about that?

What's positive is that Arabs voted in a free election in Iraq. When was the last time you saw that in any Arab country?


User currently offlineQR332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1531 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 18):
It really saddens me that an Arab like you can still say that the US invaded Iraq for "no good reason".

Well then, RJ, lets hear it from a Jewish American like you. What is the good reason Iraq was invaded? Freedom? Democracy? There are many places that need it more than Iraq you could have saved, but wait! What a coincidence! You chose the one with the world's second largest oil reserves! And if you guys have such a good reason, why did Bush lie in the beginning? Even after the UN inspectors found NOTHING, you guys still invaded. What did you find? Some old chemical weapons you sold Saddam in the 80s that were rusting away in the desert, but that is all.

RJ, no reason is good enough to invade Iraq with what it caused. A racist pig like you would not really care because their just Arabs dying over there, but as a direct result of your country and that pathetic excuse for a human being you call a president, tens of thousands of Iraqis are dead, the country has been devestated, and it has turned into a place where bombings are about as regular as a trip to the supermarket. For God's sake, even an MP isn't safe in Iraq, didn't they blow up an MP while she was at her front porch just a few days ago?

Do me a favor, RJ, and imagine the US was in Iraq's shoes. Would you feel the same about "Arabs like me"?


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1525 times:

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 22):
What's positive is that Arabs voted in a free election in Iraq. When was the last time you saw that in any Arab country?

Well, Lebanon comes to mind. And I am willing to wager 70/30 you think Iran is an Arab country too, and Iran has had free elections, only to have them nullified



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
25 QR332 : Pre-Lebanese civil war ring a bell or two? That is still not a good reason for invading Iraq.
26 RJpieces : I know Iran is Persian dear. Lebanon has been controlled by Syria for years; NOT A FREE COUNTRY. Elections under a dictatorship does not make a count
27 RJpieces : HAHA, well at least you are finally admitting that Lebanon hasn't been free in YEARS.
28 N1120A : That shows even more how much you know, dear. Given that "Persians" are actually a mix of 6 different groups that make up only 50% of the Iranian pop
29 RJpieces : For the past week. And most pundits agree that Syria is likely to continue secretly controlling Lebanon. The events of the past few weeks have most d
30 N1120A : And I am sure it wont be free until some US invasion force deems it to be free while under marshall law
31 Theredbaron : In the game of international hypocrisy there are no winners only losers..... Saddens me that I see so much hatred and racism even here, persons who ha
32 Post contains images QR332 : Emile Lahoud was voted in freely FYI, that was post civil war. It was not as free as it was pre-civil war, but they were still pretty free. There was
33 Dtwclipper : Let's try to get our facts correct: In April 1967, after Syria heavily shelled Israeli villages from the Golan Heights, Israel and Syria engaged in a
34 Horus : Yes lets try... 1967: "Six Day War" Myth: Israel was attacked by the Arabs out of the blue. Fact: There was a war, it lasted six days and Israel won
35 LY7E7 : Myth: Was Israel the agressor in 1967? Did Israel attack peacefull Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Iraq on June 5, 1967 and wrestle the Gaza Strip from Egypt
36 LY7E7 : Some pre 6 days war statements: May 17: Cairo Radio's Voice of the Arabs: "All Egypt is now prepared to plunge into total war which will put an end to
37 Horus : Well there's a contradiction...or should I say another lie... Menachem Begin, Prime Minister of Israel stated: "We had a choice. The Egyptian army con
38 LY7E7 : And the comments brought by me contradict yours. Blind desire for peace of some Israelis bring them to wrong statements. "In recent weeks, the Middle
39 Horus : I will simply reiterate for a third time these two starements since they illustrate this very point. Menachem Begin, Prime Minister of Israel stated:
40 LY7E7 : No, they just said wrong things. (that's what politicians do) However you leave no choice but to re-iterate myself again as well: May 17: Cairo Radio
41 Horus : Politician??? General Peled of Israeli Army stated: "To pretend that the Egyptian forces massed on our frontiers were in a position to threaten the e
42 RJpieces : Jeez Horus. Do you really believe for one second that Israel started the war? When an enemy promises your destruction, then moves hundreds of tanks an
43 Dtwclipper : The arab forces of: 1. Egypt 2. Syria 3. Jordan
44 EDKA : HORUS can you please clarify where you are going with these quotes: So you really believe that at that time there was no threat to ISrael by Egypt and
45 Horus : General Peled of Israeli Army stated: "To pretend that the Egyptian forces massed on our frontiers were in a position to threaten the existence of Is
46 Dtwclipper : Can you actually answer the question, and not just keep giving the same response.
47 RJpieces : At least he's not posting his old maps of Palestine.
48 Horus : Well off course the situation was volitile between the Arabs and the Israelis and no one is denying that, but Israel initiated the war. i.e. it launch
49 Post contains images AviationMaster : Ok ok, so Israel may have started the 6-day war, but you have to at least accept the fact, that in the end it was Egypt and Syria, which brought the
50 Greyhound : I'm neither agreeing or disagreeing with you Horus. But it would be hard for me to go AGAINST Israel for starting the 6-day war. To quote another in
51 Jutes85 : What differences does it make on who started the war. All that matters is that Israel won and will continue to win any war that an Arab country decide
52 Horus : Greyhound, in that case I guess the Arabs were right in starting the 1973 war? Besides the closing of the 'English channel' isn't a good comparison co
53 N1120A : Actually, like most Egyptians, Horus has KNOWN that Israel started the war since 1967 It isn't. When you have a hostile neighbor at your border and k
54 Greyhound : My point Horus, was that Israel was being surrounded before the 6 day war. I know (roughly) a little of Middle East geography. I understand your quot
55 RJpieces : I think that he's absolutely correct. Israel has long used war to gain more land. In the 1948 war, Israel expanded its size by 50%. In 1967, it gaine
56 Horus : Greyhound, you have to go back to the root cause of this problem...Al-Nakba. In 1948 a country and its people were quite literally wiped of the map t
57 Horus : Greyhound, here is also some information about Israel's overt and pervasive racism, all from Israel' or American sources. I originally posted this in
58 Greyhound : It's sad to see this on both sides, Horus. Both Israeli and Arab extremists dreaming of ways to murder thousands of their enemies. I wonder what the l
59 Post contains images KiwiNanday : Ok, I'm sick of this Israel crap. 1) Israel does not have an army, they have the Israeli Defense Force 2) Israel has proved it could wipe out a nuclea
60 N1120A : No, you violate international law by invading other countries and taking their land. Hence why we went into Gulf War I against Iraq. I am sure you ju
61 Post contains links Rsmith6621a : Scott Ritter former UN Iraq WMD inspector has said Bush signed off on military action in Iran for sometime this spring last Oct 2004. Ritter said he f
62 KiwiNanday : No. An invasion is an attack by ground units. An aerial strike is a preventive measure against hell breaking loose.
63 N1120A : They breached another country's sovereignty, that is an invasion
64 Post contains links and images KiwiNanday : http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=invasion I don't think it complies, buddy
65 N1120A : From your link: 1 : an act of invading; especially : incursion of an army for conquest or plunder Their army (in this case with airplanes) made an in
66 Post contains links and images EDKA : Horus You are obviously very good at looking up some old quotes, would you care to find some that belong to Arab leaders going back 30 - 40 years - i
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