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Trial Of Terror Group To Begin In Alaska Today  
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1631 times:

Boy here is a moment I have been waiting for.

The Enviromental Terror Group Greenpeace and two of it's cronies will go on trial in Ketchikan Alaska today for failure to follow oil spill response regulations in the State of Alaska.

This comes after an attempt to get the charges dismissed by the terror group where tossed by Judge Kevin Miller, who said there was no proof of malicous prosecution by the state, a defense claim being made by the terror group who claims that this is just an attempt to shut them up.

Last year a ship operated the the group, the "Arctic Sunrise" had it's voyage stopped because the ship did not have an oil spill response plan and a statement of financial responsiblity in the event of an oil spill filed with state regulators. The misdemeanor criminal negligence charges came as a result of the vessel leaving it's anchorage prior to the needed paperwork being filed, in violation of a stop voyage order that was in place due to the lack paperwork. The vessel is estimated to have had some 70,000 petrolum products that potentially could have spilled during the voyage.

Alaska State Law requires that every vessel over 400 tons have an oil spill response plan and a statement of financial responsiblty filed with the state five days before entering state waters, the fines that the terror group Greenpeace Inc. and co-defendants Arctic Sunrise Capt. Arne Sorensen and the ship's agent, William Beekman is facing is $200,000 plus $10,000 per indivudual and a year in prison.

I hope they get all of it. We don't need their type of scum polluting our state.

http://www.juneauempire.com/stories/050205/sta_20050502012.shtml


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1623 times:

Hey, no sympathy for these Bunny Huggers. Cruise ships do it, Ferry's do it (And the State OWNS them), tankers do it, freighters do it. . . .

Greenpeace is not better . . . . matter of fact, I find it ironically hillarious they are going to trial for this because if there had been a spill by any other vessel, they'd be the first ones to pitch a major bitch over it and begin their usual spew about how Alaska doesn't protect the environment . . yadda, yadda, yadda.

Good for Judge Miller . . .

Reading the article their attorney says this is an attempt to stifle their first amendment rights! What a load of bullshit that is. This is prosecution for ignoring state pollution control laws.

Hope it's a jury trial. Those Greenpeace fuckers don't stand a chance in Alaska. That'd be like trying to outlaw hunting and fishing, or take away our guns or something ridiculous like that! Ha Ha

Send them to jail, impound the ship, deport the crew . . . . have a nice frickin' day . . .


User currently offlineMdsh00 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4124 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1615 times:

Forget them. Someone needs to go after the ELF. With what those idiots do, I'm surprised nobody has been killed...yet.


"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1576 times:

Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 2):
I'm surprised nobody has been killed...yet.

Just a matter of time.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1559 times:

Just an update, the prosecution wrapped up their end of the case on Friday.

The last whitness was Ellen McPeake, chief operating officer of Greenpeace Inc. the Enviromental terror group on trial for violating oil spill response laws during their last Alaska cruise.

She denied that Greenpeace was responsible for the vessel and that it was charted from Stichting Marine Services and a division of Stichting Phoenix, of Amsterdam.

She claimed that the vessel was operated as a bare-bones charter and describied how the Arctic Sunrise and some 30 other vessels chartered or operated on behalf fo the terror group where operated.

For those of you who don't recall, on August the 12 the vessel entered Alaskan waters without having the needed oil spill response plan and statement of fiscal responsiblity on file with the state. A stop voyage order was delivered to the ship at Ketchikan both in writing and in person, but the ship attempted to sail again on the 14th prior the filing of the needed paperwork.

http://www.juneauempire.com/stories/050905/sta_20050509009.shtml



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineDC10GUY From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 2685 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1546 times:

I'm a liberal but I agree with the righties on this one. Who gives a shit about them stupid whales ??? The only reason I would care about a oil spill in Alaska is because it would cause gas prices to climb. Cut down all them trees in Alaska and start drilling for oil. Maybe we could use that whale oil too.


Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
User currently offlineCaptOveur From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1540 times:

It's not so much the whales but all the other wildlife that lives along the shoreline that gets killed if there is an oil spill.

I am not a tree hugger but I do believe people have to be responsible with the enviroment. The price of gas might not climb if there was an oil spill there (oil could be free and gas prices wouldn't fall right now) but it would cost an apocalyptic buttload to clean up another Exxon Valdez. The money has to come from somewhere.

Exxon was the largest refiner in the the US until recently, cleaning up that mess almost bankrupted them.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1537 times:

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 6):
Exxon was the largest refiner in the the US until recently, cleaning up that mess almost bankrupted them

Bull, Exxon has been sitting on some 5 Billion dollars for over a decade now that they had to put up before they appealed judgments against them. They have been collecting interest on that money while not settling with the fishermen that they effected.

Alaska has some of the toughest oil spill reporting, handling and clean-up rules on the books, and I for one am enjoying the irony of watching an supposed environmental group claim that they are in some way exempt from them.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1533 times:

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 6):
Exxon was the largest refiner in the the US until recently, cleaning up that mess almost bankrupted them.

Wrongo there Capt . . . . Exxon never got near bankruptcy. Billions sitting in the bank, awaiting dispersal to fisherpersons (mostly in Cordova, AK) whos finshing industry was virtually wiped from existence.

While that money has sat around gathering interest, the Exxon attorneys (who are paid a pittance of what the settlement money is to be) continue to toss about appeal after appeal after appeal.

Eventually, they'll run out of bullshit to throw at the Federal Judges (both in Alaska and elsewhere) and they'll have to pay for their drunken Captain's error . . . .

Now, there are no more Exxon gas stations in Alaska - they went out of business virtually overnight after their escapade on Prince William Sound, but they are certainly a presence. They are part owners in the Trans-Alaska Pipeline, and have fields in production in Alaska.

Don't kid yourself, my friend, Exxon is not going broke . . . not nearly. Neither is BP, Phillips, Marathon, or any of the others . . .

Quoting L-188 (Reply 7):
enjoying the irony of watching an supposed environmental group claim that they are in some way exempt from them.

I agree, I laugh my ass off every time any of the environmental idiots gets near Prudhoe Bay . . . the largest oil field in North America . . . and attempt to explain the evils of petroleum production . . . and then I remind them that not only are they operating a diesel engined vehicle, they also use about another thousand products a week made rom crude oil. . . .

After they recover from their obvious line of shit and being shut down they thank me, smile (sort of) and off they go to preach their bunny hugger bullshit elsewhere.


As for environmental laws - I know of none tougher than in Alaska. A spill at a fuel pump of more than a TABLESPOON must be reported and logged. A tablespoon. Hazardous waste, be it by product of petroleum production or used light bulbs is treated with kid gloves. No tougher rules than Alaska's. And the penalties are quite severe.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1527 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 8):
I agree, I laugh my ass off every time any of the environmental idiots gets near Prudhoe Bay . . . the largest oil field in North America . . . and attempt to explain the evils of petroleum production . . . and then I remind them that not only are they operating a diesel engined vehicle, they also use about another thousand products a week made rom crude oil.

I took Monty out to Palmer on Thursday, while we where their we got to go out on the ramp while the new owners of Wood's Air's old DC-3 on ski's where doing an engine run.

Enjoyed telling him about the time Greenpeace hired that airplane to fly them up to the slope so they could set up a camp to protest the Northstar field.

Now figure a DC-3 can do the slope in what 5-6 hours one way. Figure it burns about 150 a side per hour, plus oil burn. Figure that they had a news crew filming them unloading their supplies. And the news showed that footage at 6. Greenpeace unloading 55-gal drums of fuel off that airplane.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1519 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 9):
Now figure a DC-3 can do the slope in what 5-6 hours one way.

Probably more, ANC-SCC is about 800 miles as the crow flies and he ain't crow flying in a DC-3 over the Brooks Range . . . Have to get through Atigun.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 9):
took Monty out to Palmer on Thursday, while we where their we got to go out on the ramp while the new owners of Wood's Air's old DC-3 on ski's where doing an engine run.

I think he enjoyed the trip . . . between you getting him on the ramp at Palmer I my getting him on the ramp at Kulis, he's got to have some great photos . . .

Quoting L-188 (Reply 9):
And the news showed that footage at 6. Greenpeace unloading 55-gal drums of fuel off that airplane.

Maybe they should have used dog teams to get to Prudhoe - no oil polution - but would have taken ten days or so. Of course, PETA would be jumping up and down then. Fuck the bunny huggers . . . almost more hypocritical than the Baptist Bible Thumpers.


User currently offlineChugach From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1041 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1511 times:

As a somewhat moderate Republican I too am enjoying watching Greenpeace squirm under this. I believe in watching the environment when it is possible and feasible, but Greenpeace using a ship that burns God only knows how much fuel to promote their message is too ironic--never mind the fact that these assholes had the nerve to spill oil in my state and then try to get away with it.

L-188: Not a flame in any way, but what makes you call Greenpeace an environmental terror group? When I think of an enviro terror group, I think of the Earth Liberation Front or EarthFirst. Greenpeace strikes me as more annoying than anything else. Again not a flame, I'm just curious why you say that. Email me if you'd rather.



GO ROCKETS
User currently offlineCaptoveur From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1507 times:

Who was the group spiking trees to protest logging?

User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1505 times:

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a split decision.

The Jury is back this evening.

Word is that they where found guilty on failure to file an oil spill reponse plan, but not guilty of the fiscal responsiblity count.

Quoting Chugach (Reply 11):
L-188: Not a flame in any way, but what makes you call Greenpeace an environmental terror group? When I think of an enviro terror group, I think of the Earth Liberation Front or EarthFirst. Greenpeace strikes me as more annoying than anything else

Well I definately wouldn't put Greenpeace into the same catagory as ELF or Alf, or even Sea Shepard, which is pulling some serious racist crap on Gambell right now. But they are a terror group, their acts of industrial terrorism may be much less serious but they are a threat.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1503 times:

Quoting Captoveur (Reply 12):
spiking trees to protest logging?

Speaking of Trees and Logging - More Alaskan Bunny Hugger bullshit . . .

Spruce Bark Beetles have killed off nearly every Spruce tree on the Kenai Peninsula and they are working their way through the Chugach around Anchorage at the moment.

State of Alaska wanted to cut these dead trees, while the timber was still valuable as lumber, before they dried to firebox tender. Bunny Huggers stopped that shit . . . said it was a National Forest (which it is) and couldn't be logged.

Now, we have millions of dead, dried trees and the worst fire danger in a hundred years on the Kenai and around Anchorage . . . Bunny Huggers at it again . . . . .

Last summer's record year for forest fires in Alaska is easily expected to be surpassed this summer . . . . and some of Anchorage's hillside is expected to go with it . . . .


User currently offlineCaptOveur From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1501 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 14):
Now, we have millions of dead, dried trees and the worst fire danger in a hundred years on the Kenai and around Anchorage . . . Bunny Huggers at it again . . . . .

Same story in California. Logging is forbidden in the national forests so the underbrush never gets cleared... Nature takes over eventually and starts a fire to clean things out... Next thing you know there are a few dead people and millions of dollars in toasted houses... I am sure those trees (that are dead now anyway) are glad they were saved from being put to use doing something other than converting CO2 to O2


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1500 times:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 14):
Last summer's record year for forest fires in Alaska is easily expected to be surpassed this summer . . . . and some of Anchorage's hillside is expected to go with it .

Actually the fire outside Homer lit off again and is up to 5200 acres. There was a fire over by Peterson Creek by Girdwood yesterday when I drove through on my way back from Homer. AFD had 5 tankers on the fire, two on site and two at that lake right before Girdwood taking on water. Forestry had a helo working, same one that Monty got to see at Palmer, and a Forestry Truck was on it's way there when I passed it at McHugh Creek.

OH BTW, the other BLM tanker was at ANC clearing customs when I was at NAC today turning in Job applications (6 of them).



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1496 times:

I expect it will not be a good fire season in Anchorage. One small mistake on the Hillside and a lot of $million$ homes are going to be gone, quickly. . . .

User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1494 times:

Well we are better off then a lot of states, because we let more of our fires burn, particularly in remote areas.

However speaking of tree huggers, A number of years ago, the ones in Homer got all bent out of shape because the native corperation accross the pay wanted to log their land, they where worried that their views would all be destroyed. So they got the state to buy a whole shitload of land and add it to Kachemak Bay State Park.

5 years later, the spruce bark bettle arrives.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineChugach From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1041 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1484 times:

The way our national forests have been mis-managed over the years, both in favor of the tree huggers and in favor of the industrial faction, is just sickening. My parents are former foresters for the Forest Service, and both wound up quitting because they couldn't bring themselves to work for an agency that was so blatantly mismanaging its resources. It's obvious that logging, when it is done CORRECTLY, can help to ensure long-term forest health as a renewable resource. Unfortunately, clearcutting is not ensuring of long term forest health. The erosion effects alone are nasty, especially when stream and fishery health is factored into that equation. I'm a bit more moderate than my fellow Alaskans on this board, but I'm not a tree-hugger either. Correct timber thinning, combined with the thinning of dead fuel, is important to ensure forest health.

Let me play devils advocate here for a minute: If you think about it, fires are natures way of getting rid of the spruce bark beetle and other diseases. The problem is when they are in populated areas like the Peninsula, because you can't let them burn and let nature run it's course. Provided the Native corporation was planning on doing a clear cut like they normally do (I don't know if that was the case, L-188 or ANCflyer might know the specifics), it could be argued that it's better in the long term to let it burn where they can while trying to keep it from the populated areas. I'd be interested to hear more about this debate on Kachemak Bay State Park, as I could formulate a better overall opinion instead of relying on general ideas learned from my childhood ranching and interning for the Forest Service at Colville National Forest in WA.

Taking my place under the guillotine...  Big grin

Oh, thanks for answering about Greenpeace, L-188  Smile



GO ROCKETS
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1481 times:

Quoting Chugach (Reply 19):
Provided the Native corporation was planning on doing a clear cut like they normally do (I don't know if that was the case, L-188 or ANCflyer might know the specifics), it could be argued that it's better in the long term to let it burn where they can while trying to keep it from the populated areas. I'd be interested to hear more about this debate on Kachemak Bay State Park

The point was the land in question at the time was not part of the state park, but owned by the Seldovia Native corperation. They had every right to log that land. This was about 10 years ago.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineChugach From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1041 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1475 times:

Interesting. For some reason I was thinking it was on the Homer side of the bay. Well, chances are I would not have agreed with how the Seldovia corporation chose to log it (as I mentioned earlier, most Native corporations like to clear cut since it maximizes immediate $$$ potential and benefits their shareholders in the short term); however, if that land was privately owned then the state should have left its nose out of it. It would be a different matter altogether if it was state land.

A guy named Garrett Hardin wrote an essay called "The Tragedy of the Commons" back in the 1960's; essentially he argued that conservation (note the difference between conservation and preservation) is best achieved through private land ownership. This is all fine and dandy until you have a land owner that either doesn't know how to care for his land or just flat doesn't care, at which point you're back where you started. This is essentially why I enjoy debating environmental issues; there's a huge range of ideas to talk about. I personally agree with the crux of what Hardin was saying; coming from a private 3,000 acre backyard in eastern Oregon, I not only enjoy private land ownership but also enjoy managing it so that I can enjoy it in my retirement years without looking at a bunch of stumps. That said, I'd be apoplectic if the state came in and annexed my own property.



GO ROCKETS
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1474 times:

You know there was a time that loggers where considered the stewarts of the woods.

But I think Hardin has a point, look who watches out for the welfare of the ocean, the fishermen who depend on it.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineChugach From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1041 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1468 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 22):
You know there was a time that loggers where considered the stewarts of the woods.

But I think Hardin has a point, look who watches out for the welfare of the ocean, the fishermen who depend on it.

I think you're exactly right. After all, it was the Prince William Sound fishermen that played a huge part in cleaning up the 1989 spill. When I got cornered by three separate forest fires at home in 2002, I was out busting my ass trying to not only save my place but help my neighbors as well. When you get down to it, people will watch out for their own interests first.

But then again, consider the miners, who do something that is blatantly destructive to the environment. I think that is where Hardin's argument falls apart: In my own experience after living the last five years in Fairbanks is that most miners don't give a damn about long-term land stewardship. I completely understand that bills have to be paid, but all you have to do is look at the piles of tailings around Fairbanks or Dawson, or the open pit mines outside of Butte and Salt Lake City to know how destructive that particular occupation is to the land.

Yes, I know that it's borderline sacrilige for a Fairbanks resident to criticize mining Big grin



GO ROCKETS
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1464 times:

Quoting Chugach (Reply 23):
Yes, I know that it's borderline sacrilige for a Fairbanks resident to criticize mining

I wouldn't try heading out to Pedro Dome or the Steese for a while.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
25 L410Turbolet : Except that those fishing in the Atlantic have hard time understanding the simple fact that due to extensive fishing the schools of fish are decimate
26 Chugach : Or worse yet, Crabby's Corner in Central.
27 Logan22L : I work in the environmental field, but that does not make me a bunny-hugger. In my line of work, I accept that human activity will result in some lev
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