DfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 913 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1050 times:
Quoting Tbar220 (Thread starter): This is what I think is a real conservative, only that so far though. What else would you consider a real conservative?
Talking about idealogy is irrelevant if without action. The last three "conservative" administrations have all driven the U.S. deeper into debt (not fiscally conservative), done nothing to cut beuracracy (smaller gov), and have implemented some of the most explotive eniviornmental policies.
"Conservatives believe in X, Y, Z... but we've done the exact opposite every time we've had power."
We now see the "conservative" party exploiting evangelical Christians and their blind ignorance of homosexuals, foreign policy, and worse, the frickin Constitution. "Real conservatives" be damned, the one's actually practicing are a group I will never ever associate myself with...
SLC1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1022 times:
I think the idea of conservativism's "smaller government" has all but disappeared except as a tagline to attract some of the real conservatives. I see nothing conservative about the current administration, considering they've increased the size of government, increased government spending, etc. etc.
Fokker Lover From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 941 times:
I agree with NKP S2 on the gun issue. That's a very good dividing line. A conservative is also smart enough to know that exploiting the environment doesn't mean destroying it. Trees grow and trees die. Harvest the older ones so that the younger ones have a place to grow. Harvest the wood before it dies and goes to waste. Most people who protest oil wells have never seen one in person, or have no idea that ANWR is a frozen desolate wasteland. For the record, I have an active oil well in my backyard. The deer love to gather around it in the evening to eat grass.
A conservative will say I worked hard to be successful, you can too if you just try. A liberal will say you are too stupid to do it yourself. Let the Government do it for you.
I've observed that most liberals live in the city where the local government provides gas, sewage disposal, water, transportation, and trash pick up. Basicly everything is taken care of for them. Though they pay through the nose in taxes.
Most conservatives live farther out where we have to do these things for ourselves like drill water wells, and hire our own trash removal companies. We also provide our own transportation. I would say that we are more "do it yourselfers" instead of "let somebody else do it" kind of people.
It seems that younger people are liberals because their parents have been taking care of them all of their lives. They think that this is how the whole world works until they have to survive on their own for a while.
A conservative will teach you how to fish. A liberal will take half of your fish and give them to somebody that they feel isn't smart enough to fish.
Finally, a liberal feels, and a conservative thinks.
- Fiscally conservative
- Smaller government
- Environmentaly conscious
Yes, I agree with this general definition. I would also add "pro business". Environmentally conscious I consider to be synonymous with smaller goverment and pro-business since the biggest environmental strides have always been made by the private sector seeking ways to use fuel more efficiently.
Unfortunately in the US, "conservatism" has been taken over by the religious right also and hence in the US conservatism also implies a religious or anti-progressive stance on social issues.
Here in Canada, I am active in the Conservative (right of centre) party, and yet I am pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage, pro-evolution, and more secular than religious. This would probably make me a liberal in the US.
Liberalism in Canada is really anything but -- it is very left-wing, anti-US, and socialist. I am definitely not a Canadian Liberal (ie, socialist).
Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
Ahahaha... so compassionate conservatism is based on reason? The last time I checked, it was based on faith. Faith as in, belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.
Tell me with a straight face that the conservative agenda was thinking when it said the Constitution of the United States subverted religion?
Quoting Fokker Lover (Reply 9): It seems that younger people are liberals because their parents have been taking care of them all of their lives. They think that this is how the whole world works until they have to survive on their own for a while.
Young people are liberal because they look at the shitty world their grandparents and parents are about to hand them and they are bitter. Then they have kids and don't have time to care anymore.
Quoting Fokker Lover (Reply 9): Most people who protest oil wells have never seen one in person, or have no idea that ANWR is a frozen desolate wasteland.
Two parents both in the petroleum industry. One worked for Arco, moved to Orex, fired. The other, worked for Sun, asked to move to Kerr-Maghee, moved, fired. I have moved across Texas more times because of that stupid industry that I was never in the same school for 3 years until high school. Before I was born, my father spent 5 years on spars in the North Sea. For every guy that gets rich off oil, there's a hundred who went bust trying.
I know full well about the oil industry, and yeah, I'm protesting.
Quoting Fokker Lover (Reply 9): I've observed that most liberals live in the city where the local government provides gas, sewage disposal, water, transportation, and trash pick up
I will raise the same question you raised about oil wells: ever live in a city? If so, you would recognize that you can't provide your own utilities . Yeah we pay taxes, but guess what? We're more productive.
Quoting Fokker Lover (Reply 9): I would say that we are more "do it yourselfers" instead of "let somebody else do it" kind of people.
And that's a quality to be respected? Before I turn 50, there will be another 3 billion people on this planet, think we can all go-it alone?
Lemme guess... I bet you think of yourself as more of a "man" that way.
SSTjumbo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 910 times:
Old school conservative politics seem to be mostly synonymous with today's libertarian politics, any validity to this? Back in the day, I would have voted for conservatives to keep the government out of my bedroom and out of my pocketbook. Who can I vote for today?