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More Biological Evidence For Homosexuality  
User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 51
Posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2211 times:

http://www.startribune.com/stories/389/5394417.html

To summarize: The scientific evidence showing biological differences between gay and straight humans continues to mount.


An unexamined life isn't worth living.
91 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2205 times:

Is it no wonder that I prefer the scent of cheap aftershave on some sweaty jock than Chanel No. 5 on some bimbo?

User currently offlineMBMBOS From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2202 times:

TWFirst, I don't quite get what you're saying. Is it gay or straight humans that "continue to mount"?

 Smile


User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2202 times:

Quoting TWFirst (Thread starter):
The scientific evidence showing biological differences between gay and straight humans continues to mount.

I imagine it's still not conclusive though :|
I can't wait until it's proven beyond a REASONABLE doubt so we can prove that it's not just a sinners or choice thing, and it would irrevocably be considered a physical thing so there couldn't be any more LEGAL prejudice. GO SCIENCE!!!


User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2199 times:

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 2):
continue to mount

Hu hu hu... he said 'mount'


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2186 times:

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 3):
I can't wait until it's proven beyond a REASONABLE doubt so we can prove that it's not just a sinners or choice thing

....not that that would accomplish much of anything in the eyes of religion.

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 3):
and it would irrevocably be considered a physical thing so there couldn't be any more LEGAL prejudice.

Hopefully, agreed.

However, then comes the following issue: could it be considered a defect?

Plenty of people, myself included, are more than willing to abort a fetus with a "defect" rather than bring it into the world for a lifetime of "suffering" (relative to whatever you believe that to constitute)..... so how long before that happens to babies with proven predisposition to homosexuality?


User currently offlineLogan22L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2179 times:

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 3):
I can't wait until it's proven beyond a REASONABLE doubt so we can prove that it's not just a sinners or choice thing, and it would irrevocably be considered a physical thing so there couldn't be any more LEGAL prejudice. GO SCIENCE!!!

Unfortunately, the neocons who you have to worry about do not believe in science. Even if they do accept some genetic pre-disposition, they'll probably push stem cell research in an attempt to eradicate this evil as they see it. Of course the apparent contradiction between genetic-dependent gender preference and Darwinian evolution will be an interestin dynamic.

My point: no matter how much science tells them, they'll find some way to warp it.

Logan


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2174 times:

However, then comes the following issue: could it be considered a defect?

It most certainly could.

If evolutionary biology has created us to procreate, then clearly a predisposition against an attraction to the opposite sex may be construed as an evolutionary defect.

But then from an evolutionary standpoint, fat thighs and poor eyesight are also evolutionary defects. With either, its doubtful if you could evade the hungry leer of a sabre toothed tiger.

In any case, at some point society decided that it would not punish the slow-footed or the poor-sighted. These arose as a result of civil responses to rational scientific beliefs.

Ditto for gay individuals, I hope.


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2170 times:

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 6):
Of course the apparent contradiction between genetic-dependent gender preference and Darwinian evolution will be an interestin dynamic.

To a degree, yes....

...but the combo of techology & culture have taken humanity so far off the course of natural selection that there should really be no surprise whatsoever at the continued prevalence of homosexuality (as well as various other "conditions") there within.


User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17489 posts, RR: 45
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2163 times:

Any response from the Christian Right yet regarding this event?


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2156 times:

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 7):
But then from an evolutionary standpoint, fat thighs and poor eyesight are also evolutionary defects. With either, its doubtful if you could evade the hungry leer of a sabre toothed tiger.

Agreed... my point in the above post exactly.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 7):
In any case, at some point society decided that it would not punish the slow-footed or the poor-sighted. These arose as a result of civil responses to rational scientific beliefs.

Ditto for gay individuals, I hope.

At some point, yes.... though no one (other than religious fanatics and Dr. Laura) is going to chastize parents who decide to abort a Downs Syndrome fetus, or one who'd otherwise be born sans an extremity or two.

Who's to say society won't feel the same way about aborting some "sodomite"-to-be?  Sad


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2154 times:

...but the combo of techology & culture have taken humanity so far off the course of natural selection that there should really be no surprise whatsoever at the continued prevalence of homosexuality (as well as various other "conditions") there within.

But we're also assuming here that homosexuality is the result of one or two genes. In reality it could be a multi-genetic event, where even the absence of one or more triggers could easily be substituted by other genetic triggers.

Any response from the Christian Right yet regarding this event?

They're too busy trying to weed out the 'mos from the ranks by making them sniff Pat Robertson and checking for boners.


User currently offlineLogan22L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2153 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
Any response from the Christian Right yet regarding this event?

 hissyfit  Angry  hissyfit  Angry  hissyfit  Angry  hissyfit  Angry  hissyfit  Angry

Logan


User currently offlineBoeing Nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2144 times:

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 5):
However, then comes the following issue: could it be considered a defect?

Plenty of people, myself included, are more than willing to abort a fetus with a "defect" rather than bring it into the world for a lifetime of "suffering" (relative to whatever you believe that to constitute)..... so how long before that happens to babies with proven predisposition to homosexuality?

If it comes to this, I don't see much hope for our species.............

What about the real scurges of humanity? Like trying to find a cure for cancer, HIV, MS, etc.


User currently offlineJCS17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 38
Reply 14, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2148 times:

I don't understand how this "biological evidence." I'm not saying the study isn't true, but like one person was quoted as in one report, "Humans are terrible test subjects." Exactly. Humans are able to be conditioned, yes, just like Pavlov's dog. Just because a gay guy is aroused by the scent of a pheromone in male sweat does not mean that he has not been conditioned to do so. Listen, before you shoot the messenger, understand that I really don't care one way or another.


America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineSSTjumbo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2141 times:

In biblical text, especially in the new testament, it's made clear that it is the duty of Christians to treat every individual equally as they would themselves. That's where the reactionaries fall short in their theological argument.


-SSTjumbo, a Catholic and political libertarian


User currently offlineLogan22L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2137 times:

Quoting SSTjumbo (Reply 15):
In biblical text, especially in the new testament, it's made clear that it is the duty of Christians to treat every individual equally as they would themselves. That's where the reactionaries fall short in their theological argument.

Thank God someone gets it.

Logan


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2130 times:

Just because a gay guy is aroused by the scent of a pheromone in male sweat does not mean that he has not been conditioned to do so.

How would a gay man be conditioned to be aroused by a male pheromone especially in a society that mandates differently?

The scents of these pheromones are very subtle. That's why the responses were measured by electrical impulses in the brain, and not by verbal responses.

but like one person was quoted as in one report, "Humans are terrible test subjects."

And that's why every single biomedical study involves more subjects than necessary to allow for statistical analysis.


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2117 times:

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 13):
If it comes to this, I don't see much hope for our species

..."if it comes to this"? We've long-sine been there.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 17):
How would a gay man be conditioned to be aroused by a male pheromone especially in a society that mandates differently?

As much as I hate to take JCS' side (as broad as it may be) in anything; he does indeed raise a significant point:

Chicken or Egg situation-- does attraction to men cause gay guys' brains to react favorably to male hormones/pheromones... or does favorable neural reaction to such stimulants cause gay guys' attraction to men?

Also, perhaps you could possibly self-condition, even subconsciously.

Really no evidence (at this point, that we the public are privy to) to suggest that one couldn't, and plenty to suggest that one could.


User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2104 times:

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 5):
However, then comes the following issue: could it be considered a defect?

Absolutely, just like down syndrome and other forms of developmental disability, hey we might even 'HAVE' to make 'gay parking' how about that??

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 5):
so how long before that happens to babies with proven predisposition to homosexuality?

Good question. My un-likeable answer is the following: who cares? An aborted fetus is an aborted fetus.. it's one less resource consumer on the planet as far as I'm concerned. People terminate fetuses for truly lessor reasons (such as birth control) why should anyone care if someone terminates a down syndrome fetus versus a gay fetus?

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 6):
My point: no matter how much science tells them, they'll find some way to warp it.

Yeah, but in this country they will not have LEGAL ground to stand on AT ALL!!

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 13):
If it comes to this, I don't see much hope for our species.............

You are the optimist aren't you? I think we are doomed anyway... I just want to see great grandkids, then the world can end as far as I care.

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 13):
What about the real scurges of humanity? Like trying to find a cure for cancer, HIV, MS, etc.

ROFLMAO?!?!? What about the scourage of religious fervor/persecution? How many people has "God" killed? 100's of millions? Billions? I think so, yes Billions, (targeted to religious zealots) have a nice day, go pray that my soul is saved from nothing..

[Edited 2005-05-10 22:53:14]

User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2094 times:

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 19):
hey we might even 'HAVE' to make 'gay parking' how about that??

Gay parking would be cool.



And yes MBMBOS, Ms. Grammar agrees with you.... the more correct version of my original sentence should be:

"Scientific evidence continues to mount showing biological differences between gay and straight humans."



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineMBMBOS From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2090 times:

Hey, TWFirst, I'll do anything to make a bawdy joke!

User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 51
Reply 22, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2088 times:

Hey, MBMBOS... that's why you're a man after my own heart.  Big grin


An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 23, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2076 times:

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 7):
If evolutionary biology has created us to procreate, then clearly a predisposition against an attraction to the opposite sex may be construed as an evolutionary defect.

It could, of course, be a precise evolutionary action to prevent overpopulation.

N


User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2057 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 23):
It could, of course, be a precise evolutionary action to prevent overpopulation.

That's always been my theory, and why I view lesbians using turkey basters to have kids to be against nature.



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
25 Post contains images Jasepl : ROFL! I'm still waiting for some "scientific evidence" to declare that homosexuality is indeed natural, because it has been observed in humans.
26 ConcordeBoy : ...huh?
27 Jaysit : It could, of course, be a precise evolutionary action to prevent overpopulation. Exactly. Or a precise evolutionary action to prevent the propagation
28 Logan22L : I think Jase was simply making the observation that human beings are fucked up. Logan
29 Post contains images TedTAce :
30 Jasepl : Bingo John! First, homosexuality isn’t natural “because animals don’t do it.” Then, when it’s pointed out that yes, animals certainly do, t
31 Post contains images Klaus : By the way: There´s been provisional evidence from a recent study that the same genetic factor which at least contributes to homosexuality in men als
32 DC10GUY : I think that story proves that homosexuality is a birth defect.
33 TedTAce : Damn!!! Can I have no sense of tact for $1,000 Alex?
34 TWFirst : OK... let's say it is, DC10GUY. Do we legally discriminate against those with birth defects? NO. In fact, we make laws to protect the handicapped. Is
35 FSPilot747 : We used to breed rabbits back home. Those things used to fuck anything. I used to see the males go at each other with fury. That was enough proof for
36 FDXMECH : >>>More Biological Evidence For Homosexuality
37 TWFirst : I certainly didn't have doubts.
38 Flybyguy : I doubt the purpose of homosexuality is to prevent overpopulation. Homosexuality has probably been an affliction of human kind since the Fall. But st
39 Gigneil : I thought that when i was 12. But now I would never, ever want to be straight. N
40 CORULEZ05 : Right, next thing we know homosexuality will be a "physical defect" and we'll be labeled as handicap or "challenged". Excellent point. While I don't a
41 Jaysit : Homosexuality is a terrible affliction that I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemy... I'm with Gigneil on that one. I'm very content and happy being gay.
42 FDXMECH : I bet the women you know consider your heterosexuality a terrible affliction. Or so I've heard.
43 TWFirst : Ummm... no. How could you possibly "not wish something upon your worst enemy" that you haven't experienced... and can't experience because you're "st
44 ConcordeBoy : Will wholeheartedly agree with you there......... .......and yet, I also empathize with these two here as well. Always have resented the orientation
45 Jaysit : I think that at some point in our life we all despaired our sexuality. Given society's obsession with heterosexuality as normative, and the taunts (pe
46 Post contains images FDXMECH : Then you progress and despair a lack of sex
47 Boeing Nut : You misunderstood. I was referring to the statement of lowering ourselves to aborting babies if it is determined that it will be gay. Sorry, you also
48 TedTAce : In Principal, I agree. However; given my outlook on humans long term viability, I don't know if ANY of this matters.
49 Boeing Nut : Yea, and that sucks. Take care.
50 Flybyguy : You have taken post far too personally. I only wanted to present some semblance of a debate to this thread. I guess you get your jollies from crushin
51 TACAA320 : Never ever read a better definition of an "aborted fetus". That's simply great. Congratulations.
52 TedTAce : The intent was to convey that it doesn't matter if the fetus was going to save the world, be an allstar jock, a down syndrome child, a Gay person, a
53 Flybyguy : So be it.
54 ConcordeBoy : I know what you were saying, and I stand by what I said: we're already at the point where people regularly and legally abort fetuses that more than l
55 Post contains images KLMA330 : Amen to that!
56 OzarkD9S : Would TedTAce please show me ONE example of a person who is "totally normal"? I'm dying to know if such a creature exists. Now Teddy I'm not trying to
57 TedTAce : Not sure where you got the idea I think "anyone" is totally normal. I would have to say the "Closest thing" would be a male/female in the mid 30's wi
58 OzarkD9S : [quote=TedTAce,reply=52][The intent was to convey that it doesn't matter if the fetus was going to save the world, be an allstar jock, a down syndrome
59 TedTAce : IC... 'totally normal' in this context would be at the mothers discretion. If she thought having a gay child would be totally normal, that's it.. Onc
60 OzarkD9S : Ted: OK, I see what you were getting at. Good point by the way. Wasn't trying to blow anything out of proportion.
61 Post contains images TedTAce : I'm sure if you were; the'd have been sheep jokes directed at me or the like I appreciate the clarification
62 OzarkD9S : Ted, The day I stoop to tired sheep jokes is the day George W Bush divorces Laura, moves to Massachusetts and asks me to marry him. Ain't gonna happen
63 Post contains images TedTAce : That's really darn cold!!! Yeah, I'm sorry... I obviously have a great penchant for sophmoric humor. It will be my undoing, but maybe somemone will l
64 Lehpron : Oh gimme a friggin break! People are not born gay and neither is it their choice. That is not how it happens, it is coercion plain and simple! Humans
65 TedTAce : Lehpron, If you are right that means I can tie you to a chair a-la "clockwork orange" make you watch gay (p)orn for a few hours or so, then you'd be
66 Post contains images Lehpron : Umm hmm, short and to the point. Did you know it is counter-productive in any discussion to tell someone they "Incredibly ignorant, lame, and stupid"
67 Post contains images PacificWestern : I saw words on the screen, so I know you're trying to tell us something. Your suppositions are mesmerizing. Now I shall have to spend the rest of the
68 Post contains images JpetekYXMD80 : Lephron, Your comments make overall little sense to me whatsoever. I love all these self proclaimed sexuality experts on this forum, the truth is just
69 Diamond : COERCION: "... Coercion is the practice of compelling a person to act by employing threat of force. Often, it involves the use of actual force in orde
70 Post contains images Lehpron : How is my name spelled? What gives you the right to assume? Being emotional doesn't give you the right avoid the message and to attack the messenger.
71 JpetekYXMD80 : Like I care. Excuse me for spelling phonetically. People massacre my user name all the time, but i dont bitch them out about it. Assume what? I did n
72 PacificWestern : Oh my....I DO apologize. I mistook what you consider to be plain English for Jackass, which is not one of the three languages I am familiar with.
73 Jasepl : Don't you know? It was because you watched the Teletubbies as a child. Tinky Winky is gay and it rubbed off on you. It's all part of the recruiting t
74 Post contains images PacificWestern : Ahhh....so THAT is what that Leper person was trying to convey in his bit of text diarrhea above. Thank you Jasepl for the most excellent summary.
75 Jasepl : You're very welcome ! It's not that difficult to summarise things really, there's always a simple explanation for everything. As I said before:
76 Post contains links Diamond : Lehpron - several people are flagging your bullshit here and all you are doing is reponding with more and more arrogant replies that dodge and deflec
77 Post contains images PacificWestern : Diamond, you have definitely been brushing up on your magic. You've just turned a reasonable facsimile of a man into a toad.
78 TedTAce : I Wanna Watch too!!! Let's not forget the HORROR of the ugliest run on sentence I have had the displeasure to observe in some time. I felt like I was
79 VHXLR8 : Homosexuality is not an affliction. Can we all get that right please guys?? An affliction is an impairment or a condition which negatively affects on
80 ConcordeBoy : All you need do is close the quotation boxes. The [ in your statement should not be in front of "The intent was to", but instead should be in front o
81 Gigneil : The debate rages, but you certainly can't provide that as a conclusion. The reality is that insufficient evidence to make a conclusion exists, and it
82 TWFirst : Really? Like what... observed behavior of prison inmates? I think we all agree that someone engaging in a homosexual act does not make them homosexua
83 SKYSERVICE_330 : If there is infact a conditioning or environmental aspect invovled in sexual orientation, than could it not be concluded that children raised by a sam
84 ConcordeBoy : Nope, not necessarily at all. Plenty of cases where children (both adopted or biological) raised by gay parents, "exposed" to their parent's gay frie
85 Post contains images Lehpron : I commend your attempt to "attack the messenger". It shows your true weakness: The inability to maintain the thread topic. However, please direct you
86 Jasepl : That's not all... I would extend that to a free environment as well. Given the right incentive (and / or stimulus) I feel any man has the capacity to
87 Post contains images Klaus : Lehpron: I am glad you have continued the debate, Gigneil. Allow me to reiterate my initial stance; I believe that being homosexual is primarily psych
88 Post contains images Lehpron : It's my belief dude it cannot be wrong, however my reasoning for it can be. Could you elaborate with examples, please? This is gonna be cheezy, I'm p
89 SKYSERVICE_330 : Unfortunately people are already trying to this. 2 words: Exodus International
90 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : harsh stuff
91 Klaus : (My emphasis.) Your claim above is almost certainly false; And the conclusions drawn from that assumption have generally turned out to be incorrect.
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