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Oil In Todays World Vs Nat'l Resources.  
User currently offlineMirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7444 posts, RR: 62
Posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1211 times:
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This is a spin off of many threads I suppose, but here it goes:

THe Oil prices we're seeing now could not have come at a worse time for the airlines and thus, our ticket prices are affected.

But here are are talking about Oil reserves, fuel burn, natural gas, etc. and yet, we have so many other choices.

So why arent more folks going for it? Solar cars, hybrids, battery powered cars, green friendly homes, etc?

My parents have 2 homes, both now rigged for solar energy.
While we aren't there yet, we are getting new floors, but of bamboo, a greatly renewable resource.

So I am just wondering, with so many talking about Oil prices, is anyone doing anything to reign back their use on Oil and natural resouces?


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12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40008 posts, RR: 74
Reply 1, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1207 times:

Mirrodie:
Have you been hanging out wit dem gawd damn liberals?!?!?!?!  Silly



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineMirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7444 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1203 times:
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naw, man.

I'm just saying, if people are gonna bitch about oil, what are they doing about it?

I dont like bitching (or bitches, for that matter). I like getting things done, know what I mean Big grin.



Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40008 posts, RR: 74
Reply 3, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1200 times:

Understood. I was just in a temporary zanny mood.
I hear what you are saying about our limited supply of resources.

This moths Ripon Society Magazine has a good story about this very issue.
You might want to check it out.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineMirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7444 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1194 times:
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But look , my point is made! Big grin watch this thread sink unless you or I respond to it, just proves the, people would rather bitch than be proactive.


You've gonna see dozens more threads about Bush, gas prices, oil prices, yada yada yada, yet no one isnt gonna do jack about it or even talk about the alternatives!



Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40008 posts, RR: 74
Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1187 times:

Well said Mirrode!

I know I am doing my part by using public transportation and riding my bicycle for most of my daily commute.
I am sure you do the same considering you live in New York, New York.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 47
Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1188 times:

I strongly encourage all of you to take a few hours and read this site. There are numerous links, all of which are at least worth reading. They offer some pretty solid arguments about 1) peak oil production, and how it's imminent-if not already passed. There still seems to be some debate. Some say it was 2000. Others say WOP will be 2005-2010. And others think it won't be until around 2040 But still. It's coming. 2) The REAL reason behind the invasion of Iraq. Ok...so maybe it WAS for oil. So what? At least read the damn thing, and then if you don't think that it's more a matter of National survival as opposed to $1.25 p/g for gas, then tell me why. Read the links. And 3), why alternative energies are not feasible and why it's etirely possible that by the year 3000, we could very well be in a New Stone Age. Literally.

Although there are some points I don't fully agree with, an hour spent reading is very sobering.

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/


User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1173 times:

Quoting Mirrodie (Thread starter):
So why arent more folks going for it? Solar cars, hybrids, battery powered cars, green friendly homes, etc?

They are, last time I checked there was a 2 month backlog for hybrids.

Otherwise, you are correct we are not going for it as the cost for such items are out of the reach of 'normal' consumers. We need more rich people to cover R&D costs the way they always do in purchasing 'cutting edge' technology, so Solar, and wind energy is something that is easy for 'most of us' to get. Of course the problem with that is the rich have the biggest penchant for gas comsuming vehicles then anyone. Build an oil free megayacht that's bigger/faster then anything else out there, and build an oil free supercar that's faster then anything else, and you have the first chinks in the mighty oil armor!!


User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 47
Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1171 times:

The amount of oil that the US wastes is criminal. I'm not talking about consumption, in which I will fight to the death our right to drive our own personal vehicles. A single person with no children has NO BUSINESS driving an Excursion or other similar phallic display of transportation for suburban commuting. There is no excuse for that. That is simply too much car that serves no purpose other than to show off. None. Especially with Peak Oil staring us in the face.

I would love to see conservation as much as the next person. But let's also be practical and realistic. You aren't going to get people out of their cars and onto buses and trains. Forget it. As wonderfully noble and idealistic as it sounds, it just isn't going to happen. You might as well bury that idea never to be seen again.

Likewise, pricing gas with a Euro style punative tax isn't going to work either. The people that will be hit hardest with that are not only the ones least able to afford it, but most likely already drive efficient (30+ MPG) cars.

And alternative technologies, as wonderful and promising as they sound, such as hydrogen cells, solar...wind...geothermal. Forget it. Those aren't happening either. If those technologies were viable, they would've been mass produced long ago.

So let's not talk about the "could be's", the "ought to be's", or the "might be's". Let's discuss reality and what we CAN do. Right now.

So what do we do?

Why not start by taxing the hell out of only the vehicles that are wasteful? I mean if we are going to penalize consumption AND have a real shot at conservation, let's enact some kind of tax something along the lines of $15,000 per annum to re-register the vehicle and a $20,000 excess resource tax on all vehicles with a GVW over 3500 pounds? This tax would need to be paid IN FULL at time of purchase. Or else the vehicle would not be permitted to be driven. This would not only apply to all new gas guzzlers, but would also be retroactive to all existing ones as well.

You know how fast those things will be parked?

And let's not even pretend that those taxes will go towards some lofty BS goal-like fixing the schools or the roads or whatever. Put it right in the general fund and use it for everything to Social Security to more Army supplies in Iraq.

[Edited 2005-05-12 03:39:50]

User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21791 posts, RR: 55
Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1161 times:

There hasnt been a wind less than 20mph this whole week in North Dakota. But where are the windmills? Turn the entire eastern half of the state into a wind farm. Damn it, we're getting all this energy for free, and just letting it go to waste.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1156 times:

Quoting Matt D (Reply 8):
A single person with no children has NO BUSINESS driving an Excursion or other similar phallic display of transportation for suburban commuting.

This I agree with whole heartedly. One of the reasons I left the Chicagoland area was the day I drove by about 20 SUV's sharing the 5th lane with oncomming traffic while I was cruising through the right lane in an inch and a half of slush in my 4 cylinder front wheel drive car.
People who buy cars 'just because' should be SHOT!

Quoting Matt D (Reply 8):
And alternative technologies, as wonderful and promising as they sound, such as hydrogen cells, solar...wind...geothermal. Forget it. Those aren't happening either. If those technologies were viable, they would've been mass produced long ago.

Matt here's where I start to think you are going wrong.. the one thing I have to give GW is funding for hydrogen research. The reason that nobody cared about these technologies is that in years past "oil would always be there." Now we realize that oil costs more then dollars (IE American lives) and this cost is finally too much in light of making a change.

Quoting Matt D (Reply 8):
Why not start by taxing the hell out of only the vehicles that are wasteful? I mean if we are going to penalize consumption AND have a real shot at conservation, let's enact some kind of tax something along the lines of $15,000 per annum to re-register the vehicle and a $20,000 excess resource tax on all vehicles with a GVW over 3500 pounds? This tax would need to be paid IN FULL at time of purchase. Or else the vehicle would not be permitted to be driven. This would not only apply to all new gas guzzlers, but would also be retroactive to all existing ones as well.

Exorbitent, and 'unfair'. The people who can afford this can afford to pay their congresspeople 1/3 as much to NOT pass such legislation. Like I said before; make not using gas/oil as cool as it is to do so to the rich now, and that will spark your change like a wildfire. Let's also consider families like the McCoy's and their septuplets+1 Sure someone would pay the bill for them but what about those who have nearly as many kids, but not as much in the way of resources?

Quoting Matt D (Reply 8):
And let's not even pretend that those taxes will go towards some lofty BS goal-like fixing the schools or the roads or whatever. Put it right in the general fund and use it for everything to Social Security to more Army supplies in Iraq.

Social Security:Yes VA benefits:ABSOLUTELY Troop pay:Certainly yes!!! Iraq: FU¢K NO!!

Quoting Mir (Reply 9):
There hasnt been a wind less than 20mph this whole week in North Dakota

I hate to say it but from what I know the 'better' windmill equipment can't deal with this much force. I forgot where it was (I want to say Tenessee) but I saw a windmill sitting idle on a hill on a very good windy day, and I was told it can't deal with 'too much' wind. I do agree that wind farms should be a LOT more prolific for when conditions are acceptable, but I think they ought to be designed to take Cat4 hurricane winds, Florida would be the wind electric capital of the world!!


User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3133 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1149 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 9):
Turn the entire eastern half of the state into a wind farm. Damn it, we're getting all this energy for free, and just letting it go to waste.

The problem with all renewable energy sources such as wind and solar is that to generate reliable electricity we still need base load power stations fired from oil, coal or Nuclear energy. The gas fired power stations, wind farms and other renewables are used mainly to supplement and increase generating capacity when the power demand is high and/or to add generating capacity where it's not economically feasible, or there is not the requirement for, another baseload station.

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 10):
but I think they ought to be designed to take Cat4 hurricane winds

I agree but the only problem is that there isn't currently any way of economically storing the power generated to use later.

Quoting Matt D (Reply 8):
But let's also be practical and realistic. You aren't going to get people out of their cars and onto buses and trains.

Lets have OPEC cut supply and shoot the oil price skywards even further. I bet it would be practical and realisitc then. What's needed is research into replacing current petroleum with another form of fuel that can be massed produced efficiently and not subject to a Cartel trading arrangement but 1/3, or whatever OPEC is, of the worlds suppliers.


User currently offlineMirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7444 posts, RR: 62
Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1127 times:
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2 month backlog for hybrids. but arent some things worth the wait? Besides, if you dont take at least a month to PLAN a new auto purchase, one has not done their homework anyway.


Otherwise, you are correct we are not going for it as the cost for such items are out of the reach of 'normal' consumers.

I can't agree with that fully. My parents are no more rich than the rest of their middle class income neighbors, Yet, when they bought their house and as soon as we reached a certain age, they leveled our occasionally used pool and build a second house. I had a hand in building it. So they have 2 homes (one that they rent), side by side and both homes are only 2 of the 500 homes on Long Island with solar energy.

And they aren't rich people. They just have their priorities straight.

Out here, the local energy authority is working with serious rebates to get people to use solar energy and make it much more affordable. Problem is, most folks are too busy keepin with the Joneses to worry about any looming energy crises.



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