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ManRam: First Ballot Hall Of Famer?  
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 882 times:

Manny Ramirez, one of the great hitters in the modern era of baseball passed the 400 home run plateau the other day. And, since he's age 33, if he would play till he's 40, there's no doubt he'll reach the 600+ home run mark. His .314 lifetime batting average is better than all but 5 men who were part of the .400 club-the only five with higher lifetime batting averages are 5 guys named Ruth, Williams, Foxx, Musial and Gehrig. Not bad company. He's got one of the sweetest strokes in the history of the game.

But is he first-ballot HOF material? With his penchant for forgetting how many outs there are when he's on base? For his less-than-inspiring play in the outfield? For once trying to steal first when on second? For once cutting off the throw of a fellow outfielder? For being one of the worst base runners in the game?

It's a debate that will start soon in Boston, and, since he spent most of his career in Cleveland up to this point, it's starting to be debated.

Great hitter-not just a very good hitter, but a great hitter-but sub-par in almost every other aspect of the game.

First ballot guy or not?

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLHMARK From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 47
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 881 times:

The HoF is full of guys who were a bit um, idiosyncratic. Even if he were gold glove caliber, Man Ram would never be considered for the hall based on his fielding. Because of his bat, however, I think he's a first ballot guy if he keeps it up until age 40. The Red Sox winning the series is icing on his ballot.


"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 878 times:

I agree with LHMark. When most people think of ManRam, they think of the outstanding slugger that he is. Not the fielding miscues and such. He isn't a media darling which will hurt, but his eccentric personality will help. The World Series Ring he has will seal the deal. Sorry C-Town, your product will be in the hall...with a Sox Cap.

User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 875 times:

Quoting KROC (Reply 2):
He isn't a media darling which will hurt

True, KROC, but he's never been one that is surely and nasty to the media either. A great case of that was Albert Bell, who, in '95 clearly should have won the AL MVP (50 HR, 50 doubles, 149RBI in 100 games), but because he was so surely and nasty, it was given to Mo Vaughan. Ramirez doesn't have that problem. He's vastly improved from his very "shy" days in Cleveland, when he was just afraid to talk to the media.

Clevelanders may hate he left-I sure am, he was the best hitter I've ever watched in a Tribe uniform-but going to Boston, and winning a title, has put him on a different plain now.

I think he'll be a first-ballot guy, but a lot of poeple don't because he is so sub-par in other parts of the game.

I want more responses on this, but let met throw out another name: Omar Vizquel. One of the great fielders of all time, he's also made himself into a very good hitter, whereas when he first came to Cleveland, you could knock the bat out of his hand. He's a .285 lifetime hitter, won 9 gold gloves, and is clearly one of the top 3 defensive shortstops of all time.


User currently offlineLogan22L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 866 times:

Please stop calling him ManRam. What, are you guys weaker than Tom Arnold? NO ONE in Boston refers to him as ManRam. He's Manny. You sound like second market puppets.

Space cadet or not, he's a first ballot inductee.

Logan


User currently offlineLHMARK From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 47
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 862 times:

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 4):
Please stop calling him ManRam.

Ok, how about "Manny Kookoo Bananas?"



"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 862 times:

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 4):
Please stop calling him ManRam. What, are you guys weaker than Tom Arnold? NO ONE in Boston refers to him as ManRam. He's Manny. You sound like second market puppets.

Somebody get Chowd Fan a kleenex. News slash allstar...outside of the Nation, EVERYONE calls him ManRam. Its not Manny or Manny Ramirez, its ManRam. You sould like a 2nd rate market still trying to get respect even after winning the World Series.

As for Omar...he may not be first ballot but I feel that he should be in the Hall too. He is a dfensive wizard who worked hard to improve at the plate...and did. Isn't he on Houston this year?

[Edited 2005-05-17 15:46:59]

User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 860 times:

Logan, chill out. We were calling him ManRam in CLE long before he was with the Sox. It isn't a put-down. You chowds are too freaking sensitive. And yes, second market puppets, yes, we know, Boston is the end-all of sports in America. Grow up a little.

User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 856 times:

Quoting KROC (Reply 6):
As for Omar...he may not be first ballot but I feel that he should be in the Hall too. He is a dfensive wizard who worked hard to improve at the plate...and did. Isn't he on Houston this year?

With the Giants. Fortunately for the Tribe, young Jhonny Perralta is starting to play like the prospect he's been in the Minors. He'll never be an Omar with the glove, but he's starting to really hit with authority-something rare on this years' version of the Tribe.  Big grin

It was a rare treat, for two short years, watching arguably the best defensive shortstop, AND the best defensive second basemen of their era, maybe all-time, in tandem in CLE. Vizquel and Robbie Alomor put on quite a show for those two years, and it was special to watch.

Remember once in a late-season game one year, when the Indians were fighting for a playoff spot, they were in New York. Game was tied in the 8th, when Scott Brosius stepped up with 1 out, and men on 2nd and 3rd, looking for sure like he'd give the Yanks the lead. He hit a shot to the right of Alomar, who laid completely out on his stomach, speared it on a hop, got to his knees, flipped the ball with his glove toward Vizquel. The throw was high so Omar grabbed with his bare hand, touched second then had to leap over the base runner, and threw a strike to first to end the inning. I thought both the TV announcer and the radio announcer (heard his replay later) were going to have coronaries. It's hard to describe how incredible that play was, with the game on the line. I'll never forget it.

Of course, the Yankees won in extra innings.  Silly


User currently offlineLHMARK From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 47
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 850 times:

It's always been a regrettable thing about baseball that the bat gets you so much more respect than the glove. Vizquel is the spiritual heir to Ozzie Smith out there. He deserves the hall.


"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 846 times:

Quoting LHMARK (Reply 9):
He deserves the hall.

He does, and what would be great about it, from my perspective, is he'd be the first true Indian in years to go into the Hall of Fame. That would be sweet. I'm hoping Jim Thome can stay healthy enough to get to 500 homers, because he, too, could go into the Hall as an Indian.

Would have been interesting to see the fate of Albert Belle, had his hips not fallen apart, on his chances someday. Had he stayed healthy, he would have hit between 500 and 600 HR's for a carrer. His '95 years was a thing of legends: 50 HR, 50 doubles, 149RBI-in only 144 games. But his surely disposition would have hampered him.

[Edited 2005-05-17 16:01:02]

User currently offlineLogan22L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 844 times:

Quoting LHMARK (Reply 5):
Ok, how about "Manny Kookoo Bananas?"

That sounds fine to me.

Quoting KROC (Reply 6):
outside of the Nation, EVERYONE calls him ManRam.

Then EVERYONE sounds like a freakin' idiot.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 7):
It isn't a put-down.

I'm not insulted, just annoyed.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 7):
Boston is the end-all of sports in America.

True. 

Oh, and Vizquel deserves it also. I prefer good defense to good offense.

Logan

[Edited 2005-05-17 16:06:28]

User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 835 times:

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 11):
Then EVERYONE sounds like a freakin' idiot.

Too bad. I'm not bowing to ChowdNation because you won one world series. I'll continue to call him ManRam.  Smile

MANRAM
MANRAM
MANRAM
MANRAM
MANRAM

Pulling your hair out yet, Logan?  Big grin


User currently offlineLogan22L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 832 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 12):
Pulling your hair out yet, Logan?

What little hair I have left I shave down close to the ole dome, don't you know. old 

Logan

[Edited 2005-05-17 16:09:03]

User currently offlineLHMARK From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 47
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 829 times:

An aside: Wasn't ManRam that "Masters of the Universe" character that bashed through walls with his head?




"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 828 times:

Oh, the Jay Buhner look? Nice.....

User currently offlineLogan22L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 817 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 15):
Oh, the Jay Buhner look?

Actually, more like Anthony Edwards. I try to keep just enough up there to avoid the skinhead look, as I have to deal with lawyers, developers, and government clients.

Logan


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 814 times:

I was trying to keep the thread baseball-oriented, Logan.  Big grin

User currently offlineTPASXM787 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1730 posts, RR: 20
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 814 times:

Based on his hitting, if he stays healthy, I don't know if you can keep him out. If you look at his fielding, he's going to be the next guy to take a fly ball off of his dome. He's kind of a weird dude, but he's a good ball player. ManRam for HOF.  checkmark 


This is the Last Stop.
User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 812 times:

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 11):
Then EVERYONE sounds like a freakin' idiot.

This coming from a Chowd. "How do you like them apples Arhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 806 times:

Quoting TPASXM787 (Reply 18):
Based on his hitting, if he stays healthy, I don't know if you can keep him out.

I wasn't asking if he'd NEVER get in, but if he'd get in on the first ballot. With the offensive numbers he'll amass if he'll stay healthy and play till 40, I can't see how anyone could vote against them.


User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5361 posts, RR: 53
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 799 times:

Well, if the HoF can look past Barry "I can't throw out Sid freakin' Bream from 'short" Bonds's defensive "contributions," then I see no reason why they shouldn't let Ramirez in on the first go-around. Plus, let's remember Manny has something Barry doesn't - a World Series ring. Sure, I'd vote him in on the First Ballot.


South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 796 times:

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 21):
Well, if the HoF can look past Barry "I can't throw out Sid freakin' Bream from 'short"

Ah, I can see B747-437B smiling at that one.  Big grin


User currently offlineLogan22L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 791 times:

I'm not so sure that Barry Cheatin' Bonds is going to make it in. There's enough bad taste in everyone's mouth to make his induction questionable.

Logan


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 787 times:

Quoting Logan22L (Reply 23):
I'm not so sure that Barry Cheatin' Bonds is going to make it in.

He may not on the first ballot, especially with the streoid scandel looming over him, but there's no doubt he belongs there. He's still a 550 HR guy without him sleeping with BALCO, and he's a definite 5-tool guy, despite his weak throw against the Braves that year.

He'll get in, although they may make him wait some time.


25 Garnetpalmetto : One can only hope, Logan. Some hack on ESPN Radio a few weeks ago was referring to Bonds as being the 2nd or 3rd best player of all time...wonder how
26 Post contains images ORFflyer : First ballot entry will be close. Remember, it's the damn press that votes you in. I do think he's deserving, but getting them guys to give him that h
27 Post contains images Logan22L : Good one! I'm really not so sure about that, Falcon. BTW, Oil Can Boyd pitched 3 shutout innings of 1-hit ball for the Brockton Rox (CanAM independen
28 KROC : I love Oil Can Boyd. One of my favorite nicknames ever.
29 Post contains images Logan22L : 'ROC: Michael Holley (Boston Globe) and Dale Arnold (Bruins Announcer) had him on WEEI radio at lunchtime, and they were saying the same thing. He's
30 Post contains images Garnetpalmetto : Considering we had Benito Santiago on our roster and still have Jose Mesa, I wouldn't be surprised if the Pirates tried to pick him up
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