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Grenade Thrown At Bush Was Not A Dummy  
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2100 times:

Scary to think what would have happened if this baby had gone off.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/05/18/bush.georgia/index.html

Glad that it didn't, and that the president and no one else had to go through that hell.

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2090 times:

...but he still is.

 Smile


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2083 times:

Agreed. Wonder who on his Secret Service detail will be fired? Wonder if there will be any repercussion in the Georgian gov't against their own security forces?

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Glad that it didn't, and that the president and no one else had to go through that hell.

Absolutely. The standard US Army M68 Fragmentation Hand Grenade is known to throw some parts and pieces a great distance occasionally. While working on a grenade range for recruits in the mid-1980s, I small particle form a grenade somehow managed to find itself flying out of the range fan, beyond the berms and barely penetrate my left arm just below the elbow. The piece was very small - perhaps 1/4 inch square - but it sure burned and definitely got my attention. I can't imagine having one explode while I was inside the killing radius.


User currently offlineDIJKKIJK From France, joined Jul 2003, 1745 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2046 times:

maybe the genius who threw it didn't know that he had to remove the pin....


Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
User currently offlineTWISTEDWHISPER From Sweden, joined Aug 2003, 711 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2013 times:

I thought this was a RPG-5, a Rocket Propelled Grenade model 5. RPG:s are usually launched with a rocket launcher of some kind, not tossed...

Lucky it didn't go of, specially in the crowd, that would have been a lot of innocent dead civilians... And probably not a scratch to the POTUS or Gregorian president, as they were standing behind bullet proof glass...



Read between the lines.
User currently offlineDelta767300ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2562 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1977 times:

Where can I pick a few of these grenades at?

-Delta767300ER


User currently offlinePilotsmoe From United States of America, joined May 2005, 249 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1959 times:

Quoting Delta767300ER (Reply 5):
Where can I pick a few of these grenades at?

Ohhh.. YOu're going to gitmo. The CIA is now enroute to your house  Wow!  bouncy 


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1956 times:

Quoting Pilotsmoe (Reply 6):

Ohhh.. YOu're going to gitmo. The CIA is now enroute to your house Wow! bouncy



User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11445 posts, RR: 76
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1945 times:
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WIth a kill radius of 5 meters and an effective wound radius of around 30m the US M-33/67 hand grenade and is different evidently than the one thrown there.



Which is an old Soviet made hand grenade with an effective wound/casualty radius of 15-20 meters, with a sheet metal casing and a pull ring type fuze.

These things were known to be of questionable quality, but were cheap and easily made.

If it had gone off at the distance they say it was to the President he probably would not have been seriously hurt, but thats not the point. Evidently this thing hit a little girl, and would have killed her had it exploded. Which once again brings to the forefront the question of exactly what kind of monsters are we fighting that will murder a little girl in cold blood? Not collateral damage, or an accidental byproduct, but the thing hit the girl before it hit the ground. What kind of crap is that?



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13792 posts, RR: 63
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1935 times:

Ian,

Where did you get the info about the grenade type used? I recon it could also have been an old Russian F-1 pineapple.

Jan


User currently offlineSacflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 371 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1845 times:

Shouldn't the topic have been:

Dummy who had grenade thrown at him was Bush.



I'm just happy that RR ratings can't be in negative numbers!
User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11445 posts, RR: 76
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1823 times:
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Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 9):

Where did you get the info about the grenade type used? I recon it could also have been an old Russian F-1 pineapple.

Jan,
It was identified in a news story and I looked further and found three separate news sources including Reuters, and USA Today. I also read about it on a Georgian news website.

I think that we are at the point that the old pineapples are less than effective due to age related deterioration. That's not to say that they aren't dangerous, but they are so old they are getting rare. Even this RGD is out of issue.

Ian



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineWunala From Australia, joined Mar 2005, 949 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1818 times:

I was going to add to this thread, but after I read the other replies, I was over it, and wonder if there is hope left.

User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13792 posts, RR: 63
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1811 times:

Ian,

AFAIK, the F-1 grenades are still being manufactured (as well as the RGD 5) in e.g. Yugoslavia.

The old RG-42 grenades are certainly out of production, but might be still found with 3rd world countries.

BTW AFAIK, the RGD-5 doesn´t just have the sheet metal casing, but it also contains a prenotched beehive like fragment coil made of steel wire.

See:
http://www.inert-ord.net/russ02i/rgd5/index.html

Depending on the storage conditions, they might still be reliable after many years.

Jan


User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11445 posts, RR: 76
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1801 times:
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Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 13):
AFAIK, the F-1 grenades are still being manufactured (as well as the RGD 5) in e.g. Yugoslavia.

Jan,
My information as of 1993 was that the F-1 grenades were out of production in Yugoslavia, but at that point the RGD-5s were still. I don't think that the RGD-5 is still in production even in Serbia-Monte. They are still in the contingency stocks for most of the eastern European militaries.

When we took one apart (to use it for a class) it had a sheet metal casing, and once we removed the fuze we sawed it open and found the explosive casing was made of the wrapped metal coil with what I now know for sure were fragmentation notches, that we assumed was designed to provide the shrapnel upon explosion.

I looked at your website and noted that while the fuze assemblies look like they have similar spoons and probably use the same det cap, but the F-1 looks shorter...I wonder if thats an optical illusion or if the RGD-5 uses a larger cap. Do you know? I'm now curious.

Ian



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13792 posts, RR: 63
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1793 times:

AFAIK, it is a basic fuze assembly designed in Russia during WW2 and later copied in several other countries, with small differences. Concerning the sizes of the RGD and the F-1, I wouldn´t know, since I´ve only seen them in pictures so far. I´m actually looking for two inert, demilled F-1s or RG-42s to fill the grenade pouches of my WW2 Soviet infantryman uniform. from my collection, but the few I´ve seen on Ebay (postwar ones) were extremely expensive.

Jan


User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11445 posts, RR: 76
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1760 times:
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All you have to do is go to a flea market in Bosnia. Unless they have banned demilled souvenirs they should be available aplenty. Go for a side trip on your next vacation to the Dalmatian coast.

I actually have an F-1 replica (I think it was a training aid), but I am certain I would have difficulty shipping it to you, so I won't bother looking for one here.

A good story you will appreciate......I took a grenade simulator and set it off in my backyard as a demonstration for a friend...my younger brother was quite distressed and expressed his opinion of the activities in no uncertain terms.

So, naturlich, I took an artillery simulator (like a grenade sim only three times as big) and threw it up the storm drain pipe on the side of the house, it of course made an incredibly loud and reverberating report that shook the entire house and upset the neighbors dog and china and my younger brother who was sleeping at the time. There were no more complaints from the peanut gallery after that.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13792 posts, RR: 63
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1731 times:

Hehe, reminds me of my chemistry teacher in high school, a big, beasrded Frankonian.
Within the neighbourthood I grew up in was a US Army urban combat training facility. Some of my school mates would climb over the fence (strictly forbidden and there were often guards around) and look for training ammo and grenades, left there by the GIs. Once one of my classmates brought a blue training grenade to school to show off. A teacher noticed it and the thing got confiscated, ending up in the teacher´s room. Now after last lesson this day my chemistry teacher entered the teacher´s room to find this egg lying on the table. Since he did his basic training in the Bundeswehr years before, he felt competent to dispose of it. There was nobody else around, except for a female English language teacher, the more poetic kind, who was correcting paperwork.
So this chemistry teacher opened a window and pulled the pin with the intention of lobbing it out into the empty school yard. Only thing was, he forgot to keep hold of the spoon...
The ting exploded still within the teacher´s office, barely away from his hand, leaving him standing in a cloud of white chalk dust...  eyepopping  and the female teacher screaming her head off.... Big grin!
He stood there for a while, counting his fingers, to make sure they were still all around...

But no matter, this guy liked explosions and set off quite a few himself during chemistry class.... always good fun...

Jan


User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11445 posts, RR: 76
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1712 times:
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Tell me you didn't grow up near Doughboy City!!

Thats a good story! I'll bet he never forgot basic safety again. Sounds like he was trying to impress the english teacher.....I've gotten in trouble doing that as well.  Wink



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13792 posts, RR: 63
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 1700 times:

Quoting DL021 (Reply 18):
Tell me you didn't grow up near Doughboy City!!

Have you ever been there?! You know the name!

I grew up in Kadettenweg in Berlin-Lichterfelde, the street running straight to the main gate of Andrews Barracks in Finckensteinallee! (At the other end of Kadettenweg was the American military railway station)
Once in the late 80s, there was a big exercise in Doughboy City with the bangs noticable all over Lichterfelde and a huge cloud of smoke hanging over the place. I just got on my bicycle and pedalled there (about 2 kilometers as the bird flies). There were GIs dressed up in funny uniforms with blue pants and the old M-1 helmets, using Russian equipment (at least I saw one guy carrying an RPG-7). Their trucks had red circles painted on the cabs, roughly resembling the shape of the Soviet Army sign.
Did you notice that while Doughboy City was built right next to the East German border, there was no wall in this place, just a chain link fence with plenty of guard towers? Everytime you guys had an exercise, the towers would be full with East German and Soviet officers snapping away with their cameras... Big grin

Jan


User currently offlineDL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11445 posts, RR: 76
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1673 times:
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As long as you are talking about Parks Range in Berlin, then yes. We actually collected some M1 ammo casings there. We also blew up the tracks at the U-Bahn station. Had to help put them back together too.

We mooned the Soviet observers who had been pointed out by the OCs. A couple of guys from F.co Tankers told us that getting caught would be bad, but everyone did it anyway.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19097 posts, RR: 53
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1667 times:

Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
Grenade Thrown At Bush Was Not A Dummy

Thank God for that.  Big grin



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13792 posts, RR: 63
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1667 times:

Parks Range was down in Wannsee, right beside the Allied and the civilian golf courses (and the nuclear research facility with the research reactor).

Jan


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1667 times:

Quoting DL021 (Reply 20):
A couple of guys from F.co Tankers told us that getting caught would be bad, but everyone did it anyway.

Man, that's the truth . . .

I remember border patrol with 11th ACR there - and we'd get right to the border of course and naturally the East German/Russian border guards are watching from the towers . . . they'd do all kinds of crap to provoke a response from us . . . and they had a great system. One guy in one tower would be raising hell with US border troops, and another guy, in a different tower would film it. IF there was a response from the US troops you'd eventually hear all about it . . .

Our communist friends would send the film up their food chain, and it would make it's way through all the diplomats and eventually roll back down hill to us on the border . . . usually, there was a simple ass chewing awaiting the US offender. Occasionally there was something in writing explaining that descretion is the better part of valor when it came to our "international relations with the Soviets". I have, for the record, two such written documents signed by the Regimental Commander.  bigthumbsup 

Those Soviet troops had no sense of humor.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13792 posts, RR: 63
Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1656 times:

Our Civila Defense (THW) company (1 company group, 2 rescue platoons, one infrastructure platoon and one bridging section) had the only pontoon ferry / bridge outside the Allied military in Berlin.
We had to go on regular exercises to keep our boat drivers current. This was usually done during a long weekend execise on the river Havel. A rescue platoon would help the bridging section to assemble the ferry at the police water training area close to Spandau fortress on a friday and then we had nothing to do until disassembly on sunday afternoon. We would load a huge barbeque grill (commercial pattern) with our crane into one of the pontoons, together with a good load of beer kegs, salads, meats and sausages and then do a cruise down the river, until we reached the line of white buoys at Glienicker Bridge, where East Germany started. There we would drop anchor and have a barbeque, with the East German/ Russian border troops coming up with a speed boat on their side of the buoys and they would take pictures of us. We would offer them food and beer, which they refused and we would generally takke the mickey off them.

Jan


25 CORULEZ05 : I will say that even though I don't like Bush, I am happy this thing didn't go off because well for one, I wouldn't wish death on anyone and secondly,
26 Post contains images Pilotsmoe : not to mention we probably would of found ourself in another war
27 Post contains images L-188 : You know at some point those are going to be worth some money on E-bay The wall was down for about two years before I got over there.
28 DL021 : I thought that section was called Lichterfelde or something. My geography of the area is not terrific as I was not stationed there, only on TDY. Smaj.
29 MD11Engineer : Ian, Doughboy City, Andrews Barracks, McNair Barracks and Roosevelt Barracks were in Lichterfelde. The Berlin Brigade HQ, Truman Plaza with the PX, li
30 DL021 : Jan....thanks for the geography lesson. The official name of the range for Doughboy City, and I remember this for some reason...was Parks Range. I und
31 ANCFlyer : You are right! Dang, I spent thirty minutes searching for that, just couldn't remember . . . yes, 40th Armor was the Berlin Brigade tank unit. You kn
32 MD11Engineer : Wasn´t Parks Range the name of the small arms firing range in Wannsee or am I confusing something? I know that it was also bordering the Berlin wall.
33 L-188 : Hey Jan. Try checking out to see if he is registered over at Military.com. They have a bunch of unit boards, that people can put their names up at. Ki
34 DL021 : Jan...I was there once back in 1987 and would be hard pressed to give you too many details, other than the sign at the entrance called it Parks Range
35 MD11Engineer : I think I have been confusing the name with the small arms range in Wannsee. Jan
36 Post contains links DL021 : Jan. I found a website that has some answers. http://www.berlin-brigade.de/us-ins/us-ein1.html Has some pretty good photos too.
37 MD11Engineer : Ian, Thanks for the link! It brings memories back! The gate of Andrews Barracks was just 500 meters away from my home! As I said, I confused Parks Ran
38 Post contains images MD11Engineer : Another thing: I noticed the British ghost town. I remember how another guy and myself once set fire to the tarpaper on the highest building during a
39 MD11Engineer : Also Roosevelt Barracks, this was the place where my great-grandfather served as a sergeant in the Imperial Army before WW1. Jan
40 Post contains links ANCFlyer : Jan, it's very possible. . . . he might still be in actually . . . only been 15 years . . . Regardless - as L-188 says, try www.military.com. Failing
41 MD11Engineer : Sgtmaj, There is a IM on the way. BTW, once we were in East Berlin, we usually got out of the city center quite fast (only walking permitted though),
42 Planespotting : judging by the article, it doesn't appear that anyone in the secret service was at fault for the grenade being thrown in the first place, or not goin
43 Post contains images DL021 : Then we were probably in the same neighborhood at one time for at least a few weeks. the main difference between men and boys is the blast radius of
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