Falcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (8 years 20 hours ago) and read 1856 times:
Sporttalk radio, WKNR in CLE had their afternoon host bring this subject up today. It's one that no one can really answer, in all honesty, but it's fun to see peoples' opinion.
Who's the greatest pro athlete of all time? Doesn't matter the sport. And I'll put names down, but I'm just musing out loud. The "list" isn't limited to those named. Some candidates I can think of:
Football (the real American one): Jim Brown, Joe Montana, Lawrence Taylor, Otto Graham, Walter Payton, Lawrence Taylor?
Baseball-Babe Ruth, Nolan Ryan, Roger Clemens, Cy Young, Henry Aaron, Willie Mays, Ted Williams, Johnny Bench, Joe Dimmagio?
Basketball-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Shaq, Julius Erving?
Hockey-Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Bobby Hull, Rocket Richard, Ken Dryden? (a lot more, since I'm not huge on hockey.
Boxing-Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, Ray Robinson, Ray Leonard, Roy Jones, Jr, Felix Trinidad, Mike Tyson, Rocky Marciano, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis?
I'll leave Futbol/Soccor/Football for those more learned, but one name jumps out to me-Pele.
So, who IS the greatest in your mind, in ANY sport?
Have some fun with it. I'm off to my son's last band concert of the year at school.
Trophies
Art Ross Trophy - 10 (1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1990, 1991, 1994)
Hart Memorial - 9 (1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1989)
Conn Smythe Trophy - 2 (1985, 1988)
Lester B. Pearson Trophy - 5 (1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1987)
Lady Byng Memorial - 5 (1980, 1991, 1992, 1994, 1999)
Championships
Stanley Cup - 4 (1984, 1985, 1987, 1988)
He finished his career at a +518, while during his first 9 years in the NHL he was a combined +551, including 1984-85 when he was a +98 for one season! 14 out of his first 15 seasons he had more than 100 points, the least amount of points scored during one of those years being 121. 5 straight years with 196 or more points, with 4 of those more than 200 points (212, 205, 208, 215). 382 points in the playoffs. 73 short handed goals, 453 power play points. He is the greatest player to ever play a sport! And seeing how he brought fans from across the world to the sport, he electrified the game, brought hockey to everyone.
Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
ANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (8 years 20 hours ago) and read 1826 times:
Football: Terry Bradshaw, Bret Favre
Baseball: Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron
Basketball: Wilt the Stilt, Larry Bird
Hockey: Is that a sport, I thought it was a bar fight?
Boxing: Ali
NASCAR: Dale Earnhardt, Sr.
Hockey: Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Gordie Howe, Bobby Orr, Maurice Richard, Bobby Hull, Jacques Plante, Vladislav Tretiak, Patrick Roy, Phil Esposito.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8950 posts, RR: 62 Reply 8, posted (8 years 19 hours ago) and read 1806 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW HEAD DATABASE EDITOR
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 5): Football: Terry Bradshaw, Bret Favre
Baseball: Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron
Basketball: Wilt the Stilt, Larry Bird
Hockey: Is that a sport, I thought it was a bar fight?
Boxing: Ali
NASCAR: Dale Earnhardt, Sr.
NASCAR....is that a sport? I thought it was a line of glorified Camaros unable to turn right.
Falcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (8 years 18 hours ago) and read 1772 times:
Otto Graham didn't domiante his sport in that way? 10 seasons in pro football, appeared as a starting quarterback in 10 championship games? That's pretty freaking dominant!
I'm just playing devil's advocate there. But think about that-every season he played, he played for a title. That's pretty impressive. Oh, and he might have played more years but served in WWII.
DL021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11433 posts, RR: 81 Reply 16, posted (8 years 18 hours ago) and read 1767 times:
Falcon....great post. My favorite pastime.
Football (the real American one): Jim Brown, Joe Montana, Lawrence Taylor, Otto Graham, Walter Payton, Lawrence Taylor? golden age: Jim Thorpe;
modern era: Jim Brown; My personal Favorite: Sweetness himself...Walter Payton.
Baseball-Babe Ruth, Nolan Ryan, Roger Clemens, Cy Young, Henry Aaron, Willie Mays, Ted Williams, Johnny Bench, Joe Dimmagio? old timers... Ty Cobb had it over Cy Young; modern era Mickey Mantle had it all, but Johnny Bench was more disciplined. My favorite is Hank Aaron.
Basketball-Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Shaq, Julius Erving? Michael Jordan....his Airness over everyone there.
Hockey-Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Bobby Hull, Rocket Richard, Ken Dryden? (a lot more, since I'm not huge on hockey.)
Gretzky is the one all my friends say, but I defer to Garnetpalmettoe on this one.
Boxing-Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, Ray Robinson, Ray Leonard, Roy Jones, Jr, Felix Trinidad, Mike Tyson, Rocky Marciano, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis?
Ali.....Ali....boomaya Ali..... Sugar Ray Robinson was the best boxer in his weight class. Joe Louis may have given Ali more than he could have handled. but we'll never know.
I'll leave Futbol/Soccor/Football for those more learned, but one name jumps out to me-Pele.
Pele was the greatest to ever play that game, and as a kid I watched him play, including the famous New York Cosmos vs Brasil where he played both sides. I know someone will say Beckham or someone could take him, but I don't really know about todays soccer.
Garnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5244 posts, RR: 55 Reply 17, posted (8 years 17 hours ago) and read 1747 times:
Here's my only problem with automatically naming Gretzky - and this is partially me being a Penguins homer. Mario performed at or near Gretzky's level fairly frequently despite playing on teams that had defensive talent inferior to the teams Gretzky was on. Further, Mario was out for significant portions of the season or seasons at a time due to his Hodgkin's and had he been able to play the full course of his career, I have no doubt he'd have exceeded Gretzky.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
Falcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (8 years 17 hours ago) and read 1744 times:
Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 17): Further, Mario was out for significant portions of the season or seasons at a time due to his Hodgkin's and had he been able to play the full course of his career, I have no doubt he'd have exceeded Gretzky.
The key is he didn't get to play-not his fault, but it has to be taken into consideration. You could say the same in football for someone like Gayle Sayers vis-a-vis Jim Brown, as the best comparison.
Lemieux was incredible, no doubt. But another thing in Gretzky's favor was he won what? 4 or 5 Stanley Cups? He shattreed the point record for a single season. As great as Lemieux was, the Great One was simply the best there has been-certainly in my lifetime.
Again, the Cup is won by a full team effort and one can hardly poor mouth the teams Gretzky played for. Yeah, Gretzky won 4 Cups, but the Oilers and the Kings were great teams on the whole too. The same can't be said of the Penguins. Still, 2 Cups is more than some teams have. In terms of hardware, let's look at what Mario's racked up. Again, keep in mind that it may be less than what Wayne sports in his trophy case, but again, Wayne had more opportunities with better teams overall and being mostly healthy throughout his career.
Calder Memorial Trophy (Rookie of the Year) - 1985
Lester B. Pearson Award (MVP, as selected by NHLPA) - 1986, 1988, 1993, 1996
Art Ross Trophy (Most points scored) - 1988, 1989, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997
Hart Memorial Trophy - (Regular Season MVP) - 1988, 1993, 1996
NHL Plus/Minus Award - 1993
Bill Masterson Trophy (Perserverance and Sportsmanship) - 1993
Sure, there can only be one Great One...but only Lemieux has "The Best" in his name (To those with no French knowledge, Le mieux translates to The best)
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
Falcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (8 years 16 hours ago) and read 1720 times:
Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 19): Again, the Cup is won by a full team effort and one can hardly poor mouth the teams Gretzky played for.
No, but on the same token, do those Oiler teams win ANY cups without him, even with great players like Fuhr, Coffey, Kurri, Messier, Tikkanen? Who was the glue on those teams. It was Gretzky. That puts him in a league of his own, I think.
Falcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (8 years 15 hours ago) and read 1706 times:
Quoting GEEDO (Reply 21): (Sorry folks, he hit a nerve with my hockey)
Until the jackasses on both sides of this idiotic labor dispute get the game going again, hockey at the top level is only a figment of anyone's imagination.
Allstarflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (8 years 14 hours ago) and read 1695 times:
For a diehard Chicago fan, this one is hard. Emmitt Smith , as great a guy as he may be, still had the Newton/Tuinei/Stepnoski left side of the line with Novacek to help block (and, with the Aikman/Irvin combo, to keep the run defense honest with their passing game). Walter didn't have much of anything, and Emmitt still needed 13 years (like Walter) to get to that same level of rushing greatness. If Walter only had that . . .
And, then, there's Michael . . .
Quoting Texan (Reply 3): He is the greatest player to ever play a sport! And seeing how he brought fans from across the world to the sport, he electrified the game, brought hockey to everyone.
Only 4 players have totally elevated their entire sport like this - Gretzky, the Babe, Ali and Lance. Tiger was on his way, sans Elin. Michael recreated the shooting guard position, but then Wilt and Kareem did that at center and Magic did that at guard. In fact, it was when Magic (and later, Michael) played that the focus in basketball shifted from strong low-post play to stronger guard play. Magic is almost revolutionary - he showed big guys can be fluid and not be relegated to low-post play, except, Oscar Robertson proved it before Magic (but Oscar's play wasn't so pronounced like others mentioned here).
If Lance stuck around for 8-9 Tour championships, there'd be no question. People would still argue him, though, among the other three I mentioned (and, no doubt, others).
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 5): Boxing: Ali
NASCAR: Dale Earnhardt, Sr.
Sampras is up there, with all of the championships he won, but he didn't revolutionize the game like the other 4. He seems to be like Montana, or, like Falcon84 mentioned, Otto Graham. Complete champions, but a revolutionary is something that's once in a lifetime. Like my 4.
Quoting 747srule (Reply 13): No one dominated a sport like Wayne Gretzky did. See Texans post. Just look at those stats!!! 'Nuff said!!
Another Gretzky vote!!
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 14): Otto Graham didn't domiante his sport in that way? 10 seasons in pro football, appeared as a starting quarterback in 10 championship games? That's pretty freaking dominant!
Yup, and glad that Falcon was able to bring someone that's not current-day. It's tough for some to take in the full scope of a sport, or of sports in general, when some of the players haven't played in decades.
DL021, from your post, you sound like the kind of guy with whom to sit down and blow a day (complete w/fridge, grill and recliners) watching ESPNClassic.
Bottom line, there's dominators - Jordan/Wilt/Bird/Kareem of hoops, Montana/Unitas/Luckman/Graham of football, Mantle/Mays/Ted W./Dimaggio of baseball - and others - Sampras, Lemieux and the list goes on. These guys didn't just win, they dominated for years, sometimes spilling over a decade.
But then, there's revolutionaries - guys who dominated and also changed their sport altogether. Ali would be in the dominating category, but the guy was also a revolutionary figure. Lance has revolutionized cycling, but, really, he's more just the most dominant cyclist ever. Gretzky elevated his sport more than Lance did his. Babe is the biggest name in, what was for a long time, America's pastime.
With that, though, the Babe is #4. Guy looked like he enjoyed hard living (which, I believe, he did). It's incredible he lived past 1930. Lance is #3, though, it's harder to find a more pure athlete. Ali is #2. Gretzky - a great athlete who thoroughly dominated - and changed his sport like no other - is my #1.
PeterPuck From Canada, joined Jun 2004, 318 posts, RR: 2 Reply 24, posted (8 years 14 hours ago) and read 1695 times:
I wouldn't automatically pick Gretzky, take a look at the career of Bobby Orr!
25 GEEDO: Agreed. I know its not for everyone, but I just hate to hear the yuckety yuk humor about something I like so much.
26 Tbar220: All Around - Jim Thorpe Hockey - Wayne Gretzky Baseball - Jackie Robinson (every single team has retired his number 42) [Edited 2005-05-20 08:24:44]
27 SSTjumbo: Greco Roman wrestling: Aleksandr Karelin. Three olympic gold medals, one silver, and nine world championships, undefeated for something like 16 years
28 Falcon84: Pele didn't? Jim Browns didn't? Hank Aaron didn't? Wilt Chamberlain, averaging 50 POINTS in one season, didn't?
29 Iakobos: Falcon, 2H4, I would not comment on US or NA sports, but as far as pro-cyclism is concerned: 7 (successive) times No 1 in the yearly pro rankings One
30 2H4: Eddy Merckx is certainly a contender. I suspect, however, that had his goals been the same as Lance's, or the other way around, they would have achiev
31 Falcon84: I think after weighing everything that I see, the one name that I constantly come back to is Wayne Gretzky. He dominated his sport like no one else I
32 ANCFlyer: Touchy touchy . . . it's only a game - that doesn't get played professionally anymore by the by. . . lighten up . . .
33 Garnetpalmetto: AHL, ECHL, CHL, and UHL are still all playing, as are the European pro leagues.
34 Logan22L: He certainly wins for coolest spelling of a surname. I's have to put him over Lance (right now) because he won so many different races. For baseball,
36 Falcon84: Uh, no KROC. I can tell you he's not in the group-not with a .167 batting average-and that's UP 40 points in the last week!
37 AA61Hvy: Overall-I'd say people like Bo Jackson, and Dieon Sanders. These fellows played multiple sports and did well while playing them. Each sport: Basketbal
38 Garnetpalmetto: Amen - damned fine humanitarian too. Look at how much he poured into helping the children of Puerto Rico have the opportunities he had. Heck, look at
39 Greyhound: I've got my favorites, and yes I'm biased. In Baseball: (which by the way gives me an idea for another thread) SP: Randy Johnson (yes I'm biased, but
40 Lutenist: Texan, I appreciate the photo of Gretzky in an Oilers jersey. His Edmonton years were truly the defining part of his career. Too often--i.e., almost a
41 Logan22L: Indeed he was. I was looking through some of my old baseball cards the other day, and I have Clemente cards from '66-'73. I was noticing what ended u
42 Greyhound: Correct. The plane was carrying medical, food and clothing supplies. It went down off of Puerto Rico. Roberto's body was never found.
43 Greyhound: A good player. Considering the steroid scandals of today, he doesn't look that bad, does he? But still not in the Hall of Fame. How hypocritical of M
44 Pera: Basketball: Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, George "IceMan" Gervin(my favourite), Magic Johnson. Icehockey: Gretzky, Jagr, Brett Hull, Dominik Hasek, Bör
45 Garnetpalmetto: Yup, he was travelling to Nicaraugua at the time, but his plane crashed off the Puerto Rican coast. Even before that, though, he spent most of his ti
46 Garnetpalmetto: Jagr was decent, but I don't know if I'd class him among the hockey greats after his drop off the radar after he left the Penguins. I'll nominate him
47 Greyhound: Which brings the question to mind (at least for me)... Why aren't there more players like that? He made considerably less than today's players but he
48 GEEDO: Sorry mister, I just love hockey and I hate to see the same old jokes getting posted about it. Check it out sometime, I bet you'd like it. Best wishe
50 Iakobos: Much less known in the States, but difficult to be equalled or even compared in terms of domination in a sport, I offer the following name: Raymond Ce
51 Logan22L: Iokobos: You always bring something to the table, but seriously, BILLIARDS? We're talking athletes here. I suppose it's subject to personal opinion,
52 Iakobos: Football, the real one, where the ball is mostly played with the feet: Pele, Alfredo Di Stefano, Ferenc Puskas, Franz "the Kaizer" Beckenbauer, Bobby
53 AGC525: Gretzky for hockey, no doubt!!! Here in Pittsburgh I usually argue this with Lemieux fans on a regular basis. NASCAR, I'll have to go with Earnhardt.
54 Iakobos: Logan, Do you think a Scottish bar rat can win 35 world titles at pro billiard ? Sport is not only about muscles, or is it ? Take note that the origin
55 Logan22L: I don't think Kirkie could beat Our Lady of Fatima at tiddleywinks. I suppose that is a question that could be debated hotly on both sides (and has b
56 AirxLiban: Well I don't know if he can be considered the greatest of all time, but he's one of my favourites:
57 Iakobos: Note: I did not refer to any particular rat, out of respect for the Scottish rodent family I submit the following packs of muscles.. Carl Lewis 9 Oly
58 Allstarflyer: From my last post, I should have mentioned that I'm along w/DL021 when it comes to soccer. My memories only extend to the World Cup, and my only fres
59 MattCLE: Tennis - Martina Navratilova, Steffi Graf, Pete Sampras, Bjorn Borg -Matt
60 Tbar220: Does Poker count as a sport? ESPN seems to telecast that more than any other sport...
61 Qantas077: there is no greater athlete on the planet then Emil Zatopec, at Helsinki Olympics he won the 5000 and 10000 meters and the mens marathon, each race he
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From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 353 posts, 
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From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
): Pele, Beckenbauer, Maradona, Lineker, Ronaldo, Beckham, Figo, Carlos, Seeler, Del Piero, Zidane...
, as great a guy as he may be, still had the Newton/Tuinei/Stepnoski left side of the line with Novacek to help block (and, with the Aikman/Irvin combo, to keep the run defense honest with their passing game). Walter didn't have much of anything, and Emmitt still needed 13 years (like Walter) to get to that same level of rushing greatness. If Walter only had that . . .
From Canada, joined Jun 2004, 318 posts, 
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