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Elevator Rules For Jewish People?  
User currently offlineMdsh00 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4130 posts, RR: 8
Posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4834 times:

I work at a Jewish Hospital in Los Angeles (Cedars-Sinai) and was walking in the main medical building and waiting for an elevator. There for the first time I saw a small sign next to one elevator which said:

"THIS ELEVATOR STOPS AT EVERY FLOOR ON SATURDAYS AND JEWISH HOLIDAYS"

So can any of the jewish a.netters explain to me why an elevator needs to stop on every floor on Shabbat and Jewish holidays?


"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
59 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSFOMEX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4827 times:

I'm not Jewish, but I guess it's to be with Sabbath rules, when any physical work is forbidden, including pushing the elevator's floor button. That way, the faithful use the elevator without breaking the rules.

[Edited 2005-05-21 01:16:51]

User currently offlineTheCoz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4807 times:

Isn't the act of walking onto an elevator work?

User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8764 posts, RR: 42
Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4793 times:

I know I might get  flamed  for this, but if that kind of "obeying rules" isn't wacky, what is?


Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineSenorcarnival From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4760 times:

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 1):
I'm not Jewish, but I guess it's to be with Sabbath rules, when any physical work is forbidden, including pushing the elevator's floor button. That way, the faithful use the elevator without breaking the rules.

That is correct. Most oven manufacturers make some models that include what is called "Sabbath mode." The oven will stay on a low heat to maintain the food warm for several hours for this very reason. So you cook the grub the day before the holiday or Sabbath, and just leave it in the oven in this mode until it's time to eat.
Before then, ovens had a timer that would shut the unit off if it stayed on at "x" temperature for "y" hours.
SOURCE: http://www.wordspy.com/words/Sabbathmode.asp


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21864 posts, RR: 55
Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days ago) and read 4503 times:

So, the big question is, will El Al order planes that can fly themselves for use on the Sabbath, without any pilot "interference?"  Wink

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineLevg79 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 995 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4494 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
So, the big question is, will El Al order planes that can fly themselves for use on the Sabbath, without any pilot "interference?"

It's different for the planes than elevators. It is against Jewish religion to burn something on Sabbath. Therefore, an extra person in the airplane would cause the airplane to burn more fuel. This is illegal for an observant Jew to cause this extra fuel burn.

Getting back to the elevator example. As far as the religion goes, elevators don't require extra burn so riding the elevator is permissable. Pushing a floor button, on the other hand, turns on the electric motor running the elevator, which is prohibited. Elevator that automatically stops on every floor solves that problem.

On the other note, I myself am not sure why walking through the automatic door is considered "work" while physically opening the door is alright. Perhaps someone who is more religious than myself can explain this better.



A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21864 posts, RR: 55
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4488 times:

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 6):
It's different for the planes than elevators. It is against Jewish religion to burn something on Sabbath. Therefore, an extra person in the airplane would cause the airplane to burn more fuel. This is illegal for an observant Jew to cause this extra fuel burn.

Well, you learn something new every day. Thanks for the explanation.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2262 posts, RR: 19
Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4481 times:

Does anybody have any kind of idea why half of the posts in this thread were deleted earlier?


2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineUAL747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4478 times:

Probably violated Jewish Sabbath laws. Pushing the keys on the computer is in direct violation! LOL  Smile

UAL


User currently offlineSFOMEX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4472 times:

Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 8):
Does anybody have any kind of idea why half of the posts in this thread were deleted earlier?

Interesting news. I wasn't on-line for many hours, so I couldn't check this thread. Maybe someone got too aggressive criticizing Sabbath rules, but who knows.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4446 times:

Elevators which stop on every level actually consume much more energy than in the normal mode of operation, so it´s almost certain that more fuel has to be burned in power plants.

But superstition has never been logical...  crazy 


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 63
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4440 times:

Physics Nobel laureate Richard P. Feynmann (himself Jewish) wrote an interesting treatise about this topic in his book "Surely you are joking, Mr. Feynmann!".
BTW, the autobiographical book makes good reading, gives a lot of information about the Manhattan project and shows a real genius with great common sense.
He also authored the famous Feynmann Lectures on Physics.

Jan


User currently offlineJutes85 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4411 times:

Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 8):
Does anybody have any kind of idea why half of the posts in this thread were deleted earlier?

Probably because the Mods are a bunch of J...... Never mind.


User currently offlineAR1300 From Argentina, joined Feb 2005, 1740 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4397 times:

As statetd earlier, we are not allowed to do any ''work'' on the Sabbath.And pressing the elevator keys is a ''work''.That's why it has to stop in every floor.

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 9):
Pushing the keys on the computer is in direct violation! LOL

You are actually right.

Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 8):
Does anybody have any kind of idea why half of the posts in this thread were deleted earlier?

The Mods.Remember they were writen because ''eisav sonei et Yaakov''.

Quoting TheCoz (Reply 2):
Isn't the act of walking onto an elevator work?

No.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 3):
but if that kind of "obeying rules" isn't wacky, what is?

If you want on explanation on how Judaism work and thge reason for all the ''wacky'' rules send me on email.Check my profile.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 11):
Elevators which stop on every level actually consume much more energy than in the normal mode of operation, so it´s almost certain that more fuel has to be burned in power plants.

So what? is on elevator, not an airplane!we don't care about fuel burn.

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 6):
On the other note, I myself am not sure why walking through the automatic door is considered "work" while physically opening the door is alright. Perhaps someone who is more religious than myself can explain this better.

You are triggering the infrared devise that opens the door, thus making it work.

Quoting Jutes85 (Reply 13):
Probably because the Mods are a bunch of J...... Never mind.

Not funny at all, mister.Apologize.

Mike.P.S:if you want toknow what is considered ''work'' on the Sabbath and why, drop me on email.



They don't call us Continental for nothing.
User currently offlineLevg79 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 995 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4361 times:

Quoting Jutes85 (Reply 13):
Probably because the Mods are a bunch of J......

Isn't anti-semitism considered racist and thus prohibited on this forum? At least being Jewish I get offended by such a remark, although I'm not a forum moderator.



A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 63
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4359 times:

AFAIK, Jute85 is Jewish as well, and is an Israeli citizen.

Jan


User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2692 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4345 times:

All of this info about "work" according to the Jewish religion on the Sabbath is very interesting.

I have a question about "Sabbath mode" on the oven. In theory, even if it's already on, when you open the door, you're letting heat escape, therefore requiring that the oven do "work" to heat it up to the low temperature again. Why is opening the door permitted?

What about turning on a light?
Can you read a book?
Open the front door?
Get the mail from the mailbox? I mean, the mail truck had to do "work" to bring it to your house on Saturday.
What about heat or air conditioning? Or is it permissible as long as you don't touch the thermostat all day?

Being a Protestant, we really don't have any religious rules at all, so this is very interesting to me.


User currently offlineJutes85 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4338 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 16):
AFAIK, Jute85 is Jewish as well, and is an Israeli citizen.



User currently offlineGo3Team From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3267 posts, RR: 16
Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4310 times:

Straying from the elevator topic... What does one do when such laws may be life threatning:
http://www.wnbc.com/news/4411621/detail.html



Yay Pudding!
User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2262 posts, RR: 19
Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4293 times:

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 17):
All of this info about "work" according to the Jewish religion on the Sabbath is very interesting.

I have a question about "Sabbath mode" on the oven. In theory, even if it's already on, when you open the door, you're letting heat escape, therefore requiring that the oven do "work" to heat it up to the low temperature again. Why is opening the door permitted?

What about turning on a light?
Can you read a book?
Open the front door?
Get the mail from the mailbox? I mean, the mail truck had to do "work" to bring it to your house on Saturday.
What about heat or air conditioning? Or is it permissible as long as you don't touch the thermostat all day?

Being a Protestant, we really don't have any religious rules at all, so this is very interesting to me.

The general rule is that any work that creates or destroys anything is forbidden. Thus you can't turn on a light, can open the front door or move a heavy table, can get the mail in Israel (don't know about the rule for that in other countries , since the postman on Sat. can be Jewish). It's OK to enjoy the heat or a/c but you cannot turn it on.

As Klaus correctly mentioned do not try to find too much logic in these laws.
Turning on a light was actually a work 5000 years ago, but it is about time for the Judaism to adopt modern life. Actually some of them did. I'm an atheist and if you're looking for a religious example then it would be the reformists Jews.



2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineAirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (9 years 7 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4237 times:

I was in palm springs on a saturday driving and I saw a Jew walking alone and was waiting for the light to turn green for him so he could cross the street. I was looking at him and he was looking at me and my light turned green and he made a gesture like "go ahead there is nothing to see". That was weird. I guess he was young and not too comfortable in those clothes in the 105 degree heat.

User currently offlineLfutia From Netherlands, joined Dec 2002, 3356 posts, RR: 31
Reply 22, posted (9 years 7 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4215 times:
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so.. that also means... going to take a crap is work too?


Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?
User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2262 posts, RR: 19
Reply 23, posted (9 years 7 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4190 times:

Quoting Lfutia (Reply 23):
... going to take a crap is work too?

Is it for you???



2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineBezoar From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 807 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (9 years 7 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4186 times:

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 17):
Being a Protestant, we really don't have any religious rules at all, so this is very interesting to me.

Protestants are still SUPPOSED to follow the Ten Commandments, which includes keeping the Sabbath holy. We don't do any better keeping that one than we do the others.

Jesus also gave other instructions, all of which make avoiding elevator buttons on the Sabbath look like child's play. For instance, He says in Luke 6:35 "But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back." How are we Christians doing on this one?

Interestingly, the first Christians were also Jews. For the first few centuries the Christian Sabbath was consistent with Jewish tradition - from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. It was changed by Constantine's Edict in 321 AD.

Seventh Day Adventists returned to the roots, and consider Saturday to be the Sabbath.



"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
25 AR1300 : It is this old say in the Talmud: ''Profane one Sabbath, so you could be able to keep more in the future.'' It is refered to Life threating things.In
26 Mdsh00 : One question. How much are all of these rules adhered to? Is it more common among orthodox Jews vs. the everyday ones?
27 MAH4546 : They are not adhered to by Reformist Jews, such as myself. It is mainly Orthodox Jews and other more religious sect of Judaism.
28 AR1300 : Exactly. Mike
29 Lfutia : its just one of the many things in life that ya just have to do....
30 KFLLCFII : In other words, you should not even be ALIVE on the Sabbath, because your muscles (including your heart) CREATE body heat and BURN calories?
31 AR1300 : You win the prize so far.The Stupidest thing said in this thread.Go hang around with TheCoz, you will make a good match. Mike
32 Erikwilliam : I´m sorry the ignorance, as I´m not jewish, but WHAT???? riding an elevator is prohibited or pressing the button that is?? work that makes money is
33 JGPH1A : I thought the whole "can't switch the lights on" rule was about not creating a spark (ie. fire) on the Sabbath. Because switching electrical items on
34 Sevenair : on a similar note, I work for a shop, which opens late, and most nights (im a student, so work late shift), there are often a very high concentration
35 NumberTwelve : What day/s of the week, sevenair?
36 Sevenair : midweek, I usually work wednesday nights
37 LY7E7 : Pressing the button is. (Closes electrical circuit - see JGP explanation) Work that makes money is. According to Judaism one cannot make profit on Sa
38 LY7E7 : Yes I can. Not only that , but I actually do it by being an atheist. Good. Ish BeEmunato Ichie. (Each man should follow his/hers own faith - or the l
39 Post contains images Solnabo : Dont you dare giving birth on sabbath, way to much work......auuch Sorry, couldnt resist! Micke/SE
40 Superfly : Mdsh00: My sister used to work at Cedars-Sinai.
41 LTBEWR : I have seen the same elevator set up in St. Barnibas Hospital in Livingston, NJ to cater to the large Jewish community in the area. Doctors whom are s
42 Daedaeg : How does an airline like El Al operate under these rules? Also, is sexual intercourse allowed on the sabbath?
43 KFLLCFII : There is nothing stupid about drawing a conclusion from the information provided. As LY7E7 confirmed what Klaus had said, there is not much logic in
44 Aloges : Don't mind if I do. And please don't get me wrong, I don't mean to judge those Jewish people who engage in that "wacky" kind of obeying rules; it jus
45 LY7E7 : All these rules made sense thousands of years ago. Pigs used to be dirty animals, a compulsory day off was crucial before labour laws were accepted b
46 Post contains images Aloges : Precisely my point!
47 Post contains images AR1300 : I couldn't have said it better. Look at reply 25 Not only is allowed, but is encouraged, given the reason that the sabbath is supposed to be enjoyabl
48 Tbar220 : Doesn't El Al not operate on Shabbat?
49 LY7E7 : In my perception I sure cannot be forgiven by an entitiy that does not exist.
50 Flyboy36y : Jewish law is not superstition, nor is it illogical. It is faith based. The logic is in the belief. Do we consider cathocics superstitious for putting
51 Mdsh00 : Cool!
52 Post contains images Klaus : Of course! It´s the same kind of thing.
53 Post contains images Superfly : We do it because it goes well with spring fashion.
54 Post contains images Klaus : Fly, you´re catholic? Well, that explains a thing or two...
55 Csavel : No but wiping your ass is! You have to wait until after Sundown! But seriously, as a member of the tribe, I gotta say, let's move to the 21st century
56 AR1300 : Those to questions actually drove nuts a lot of important rabbis, as I remember from my Yeshiva days.I think that the answer was that we use your hom
57 Flyboy36y : I am jewish, not catholic.
58 Post contains images Superfly : It does?
59 LY4XELD : It's called an "eruv", which means that people who are observant can do some "work" during the Sabbath, like pick up a box and move it. It's supposed
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