N400QX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1147 times:
Anti-fishing crusade doesn't hold water
Chicago Tribune Sports Reporter
The No. 1 enemy of outdoorsmen everywhere is going after the Boy Scouts.
The organization People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals has added a new target to its intolerance list. PETA is campaigning to "demerit fishing," to convince the Boy Scouts of America to eliminate merit badges for fishing and fish and wildlife management.
Because fish have feelings. Because boys who kill animals in their youth might grow up to become killers of human beings. Because if PETA had its way, the world would subsist on carrot sticks.
Give me a break.
Just more rubbish from the extremist animal-rights group that despises fishing and hunting, opposes the existence of circuses and dog mushing, can't stomach trappers and would prefer that we all become vegans rather than let a morsel of meat pass our lips.
PETA ran advertising urging college students to drink beer instead of milk because farmers are exploiting cows. PETA wishes to eliminate the use of lab rats in medical experiments that could cure cancer or other debilitating diseases because PETA believes "a rat is a pig is a boy." This is an outfit of misguided passion and compassion.
So these are the kind of people with whom we are dealing. You wonder if they suffer from a protein deficiency from skipping all of those steaks.
The latest boggling crusade began in mid-March when PETA announced it feels the pain of fish caught by Boy Scouts seeking to earn two types of merit badges.
Dawn Carr of PETA sent a letter to Milton Ward, president of the Boy Scouts of America in Irving, Texas.
In part, she wrote, "Encouraging scouts to put hooks through the mouths of live frogs so as to trick other animals into impaling themselves [as is recommended in the fishing merit badge booklet], then to rip them from the water into an environment where they cannot breathe and can only struggle desperately for their lives is inconsistent with Boy Scout law and with teaching respect and kindness."
To illustrate its point, PETA trotted out statements by anthropologist Margaret Mead suggesting it's bad for children to get away with "torturing" an animal and Dr. Albert Schweitzer urging opposition to "cruel customs."
Most Americans, however, probably think of fishing as a wholesome activity, one in which grandfathers, fathers and sons participate together. And most Americans aren't eliminating fish, chicken and meat from their diets. In fact, they look at you cockeyed if you say devouring all of those things is bad for you. Don't doctors urge eating more fish in a healthy diet?
Carr, reached in Virginia, doesn't think so. Once a big fish eater herself, she said she was enlightened 16 years ago when she realized eating fish was, well, bad for fish. She went "cold turkey," an expression she hesitated to use because "I'm not sure it's animal-friendly."
Better not to bruise the feelings of those turkeys.
In any case, there is no mystery motive about this Pearl Harbor attack on the Boy Scouts. Yes, Carr said, it's part of the effort to "stop fishing across the board."
The Boy Scouts have reacted to this appeal with a sort of amused restraint. In Chicago, where about 50,000 youngsters participate in Scouting programs, word hadn't even trickled down to Rebecca Fields, assistant director of field services, that PETA was on the warpath.
"Why would they do that?"she said.
At national headquarters in Texas, Boy Scout leadership was not prompted to make sweeping changes in the curriculum. Terry Lawson, director of advancement, responded to Carr in a letter, noting there are no plans to phase out either badge.
Renee Fairrer, at the national office, said an angling or fishing merit badge has been offered since 1911. One aspect of the fishing merit badge, she said, is learning how to catch and release fish properly "without harming them."
If something goes wrong and a fish dies, she said, the Scout cleans it and eats it for a meal. There is no waste.
Except of our time by PETA.
Carr said PETA has received hundreds of e-mail messages on the campaign, running 50-50 pro and con. Hurting fish is "a hot-button issue for some folks," she added. "We've also received some colorful hate mail."
Does this count?
This is simply unbelievable. ...rip them from the water into an environment where they cannot breathe and can only struggle desperately for their lives... IS THIS WOMAN SERIOUS?! I cannot even fathom how people can feel this way about a fish. It's a fish.
And of course fishing isn't going to make a kid grow up to be a murderer. Quite the contrary, fishing provides quality time between a son and his father or grandfather, something many children such as the kids that shoot up schools did not have. If anything, fishing will bring a kid up more likely NOT to be a murderer.
What is even more unbelievable about this lady's views is that there are thousands of people who agree with her! Downright scary...
JetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1077 times:
This is absurd! I have a soft spot for animals (in fact, I just swerved for a turtle a half-hour ago), but human beings are omnivours, dammit. Just look at our teeth (those in Southern Indiana will have to use your imagination). If God didn't intend us to eat animals, then why did he make them out of meat?!?!?! (Can't remember where I heard that one). PETA is a joke! Just for that, I'm going to go fishing, make milk-shakes, fry some eggs and grill a couple mammals for my kids' supper. I say we all go to their headquarters and throw some A-1 on them!!! Who's with me?!?!?!?!!
Aviatsiya From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1064 times:
I am not familiar this PETA organisation, but I do see some point, if, and only if, certain things are occurring.
Are the Scouts fishing for the sake of a badge? How will 50000 boys (in the Chicago area) going out to catch fish affect fish stocks in the lakes and rivers for the year ahead? How about 5 years from now?
I do believe that we have to teach responsible fishing, not overfishing, as we can see in communities around the world, where stocks are dwindling.
I do not believe in fishing for the sake of bonding a father and son together. Try kick-to-kick if that is all you are doing it for. However, if the main purpose of that fishing is to eat what is caught (within a reasonable limit), then use bonding as an aside to that. Sure.
As long as the Scouts are teaching responsible fishing and wildlife management, I have no problem at all.
Hey N400QX...question for you. What if a Scout troop is out fishing, and out of the whole troop they only catch one fish. They have to spread this fish around for all the little mongrels to eat that night. The fish's last words are "I'm gay". Are the Scouts allowed to eat that fish?
Redngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 43
Reply 7, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1054 times:
No Boy Scout is required to fish, just as no Boy Scout is required to get a first aid badge. The badge system allows the Boy Scout to pick and choose which badges he wants to earn towards the next Scout Rank. Of course, there are less and less to choose from as he advances, since he cannot earn the same badge twice.
Fishing does carry with it responsibility, and every merit badge has a series of lessons and procedures to follow on the way to earning that badge. I am sure that there is information about responsible fishing.
As for me, I really hate seeing those fish flop around once they're out of the water, so I kill them almost instantly. The RedNGold Method is to take the fish and smack it against the side of the boat. Instant death, no flopping fish, easy to fillet.
JetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1051 times:
Aviatsiya, I don't think you'll ever see a problem with overfishing from regular citizens using standard fishing poles. Keep in mind that people that don't eat the fish, usually release them back in the lake. And the small fish are almost always released. Only the larger fish are taken. If a lake or pond is fished so much that it actually affects the population, then the only the small fish will remain and no one will be interested in fishing in it anyway, so it will surely recover. I think real threats to overfishing only come from commercial fishing.
Illini_152 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1000 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1043 times:
When are these animal rights people going to wise up and take a basic biology course? All animals are NOT the same; they are not like those animals in Disney movies with thoughts of their own like little fuzzy people. EX: a fish's brain is very cude compared to a mamale's; they do NOT think, they do not suffer- all they 'know' (if you can call it that) is swim, eat, procreate. They lack the required brain structures to FEEL pain.
God-forbid some of these people hear about mike the headless chicken- what do they do then- he had NO HEAD- was that cruel to let him live?
BTW- count me in- how about a low altitude bomb run? Fill a large garbage bag with A-1? Drop it on their hq?
Happy contrails - I support B747Skipper and Jetguy
TWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1035 times:
Before Zach works you guys up into another right-wing tizzy, let's put this into perspective. One should take PETA with a grain of salt (i.e. ignore them), just like any other extremist group (and I can think of many conservative groups that I could cite as examples).
The point is even most "liberals" don't take PETA seriously. Personally, I don't believe in animal cruelty (who does?), nor do I particularly care for hunting or fishing (on the basis that there's no point in killing or hurting anything just for the fun of it - if you're eating it, that's another story), but PETA's methods and messages erase any credibility it might have in my eyes.
I've been a lacto-ovo vegetarian for 10 years. The concept of ingesting animal tissue has always grossed me out. I do eat dairy and egg products - and will continue to enjoy them. Them cows make good cheese.
UA767-223 From United States of America, joined May 2001, 156 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1029 times:
I heard that PETA has launched a campaign against the shark bite boy in Florida. They are also sueing him on behalf of the poor shark because the boy caused the innocent shark to be ripped from its environment and be killed.
LH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 53
Reply 14, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1031 times:
I thought we all knew PETA was nuts. You are what you eat, I guess.
Aviatsiya: PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) is an extremist left-wing organization who often resort to violence for their cause, which is animal rights. They have attracted some celebrity attention as well. Last year, The Pretenders lead singer, Chrissy Hindes was arrested after making a huge scene at a Gap store in New York. In many cases, they are too left for the lefts, as they quite often become violent in their cause, which makes most people, me included, look at them with dislike because they can't do things normally. You can check out their website at http://www.peta.org
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Mls515 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3077 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1025 times:
I should have saved the article, but anyway, last winter some PETA activists went outside a middle school in the Des Moines area trying to tell the kids that they shouldn't eat the meat products from the school lunches, etc. They were chased away, however, when the kids started pelting them with snowballs!
JetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1020 times:
TWFirst, if its any consolation, I don't associate anyone with PETA that doesn't belong to them. When I saw this thread, I honestly did not expect ANYONE, even our most liberal friends, to support it. I do realize that they are WAAAAY out there. I know many are guilty of associating Liberal and Conservatives with their respective fringe groups, but it is usually done in jest or when losing an argument.
Mx5_boy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1011 times:
Hhhhhm. PETA. A rather scraggly radical group who will not compromise on their beliefs.
I am a strong believer of animal rights. I do not feel it is our right to plunder the land and oceans for man's pure benefit. Sustainable fishing is an issue, and in most places it is being addressed. Hunting in all it's forms should be banned and punishable by prison terms.
Feed lots are disgusting, inhumane, dirty and should be outlawed. The feeding of ruminate feed to any other ruminant should be banned worldwide. We have seen the effects of this practice in the form of Bovine Spongivore Encephalitis. Man in his quest to process animals as quickly as possible has meddled with nature at the behest of his health. No-one knows the long term effects of sticking animals with steroids, growth hormones and the like. Battery Chicken farming should be banned worldwide.
A study in a town in Sao Paulo discovered a distrubing trend in the male children of this town, slow genital development but also the development of 'breasts'. Why? Most of the people worked at the battery chicken farm and processing centre. Their staple meat diet was obviously chicken from the farm. The chickens were given doses of eostrogen to make them grow quicker. See the problem?
In my home town, most of the children growing up around me were kind of short, compared to myself who is only 6ft tall. Why? A short study was done, that linked reports that a certain pesticide that was used in the area (rural) where grazing dairy cattle lived had obviously passed into the milk supply. And what was the major industry in the area? A big dairy. (Note I am lactose intolerant so never drank the milk or ate the dairy products...) This pesticide had been banned but had a half live of 20 years, after discovering it caused birth defects and stunted growth.
What is my point? When will man learn not to interfere with the production of animals (as in feeding them things they would not normally eat and doseing them with hormones and such)? When will they find easier and more effective ways of mass producing certain foods? Is there not a way that people can change the way they eat so as to put as little pressure on the land and environment as possible? Do I think GMF foods are the answer? No, I don't beleive in tampering with nature too much, but I am not totally against it - I extremely dislike the thought of crossing the plant / animal gene and turning it into super soy beans that are resistant to anything. That's asking for trouble.
Oh dear, better get back to work or you'll all think I am a member of PETA.
Alpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 985 times:
Zach, for the FIRST TIME, you and I are on the exact page!! ROTFL! PETA is about as extremists as you get. This is the group who protested the winner of the Indy 500 drinking milk after winning the race. I don't mind them protesting the I-Killed-A-Dog, er, I mean the Iditarod, but this is too far.
And, just to point out, Zach-these are true radicals. These are the people that so many people on the right SHOULD yell and scream about, but they do not represent the mainstream of the left.
PETA is nuts, but they're a great source of hilarious entertainment. You go Zach!!
John Edwards From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 20 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 968 times:
I am also a huge animal-rights activist.
I don't disagree with eating meat or drinking milk (I consume both), but I totally disagree with any type of sport hunting.
I do not like fishing unless you're going to eat it or put it back in the water.
I especially hate deer hunters and bear hunters who mostly just kill for the fun of it. Why is a bear any less important than a human? The only difference between people and bears is that we're smarter. Is intellignece the only qualification for living?
Listen to this story,
In Fort St. John, BC, Canada. There are only about 1000 Kodiak Bears left (this is the only place where kodiak bears live, these days). In February, the BC governement banned bear hunting in the province, but this government was voted out in May, and replaced by a party more to the right.
The people of Fort St. John are were up in arms about this, so the new administration lifted the ban. The town was concerned that their economy (which relies heavily on American hunters) would be destroyed.
Well, I hope these people realize that the bears will be gone in about a year, due to hunting, anyway.
L-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29910 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (13 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 964 times:
The so called John Edwards wrote...."In Fort St. John, BC, Canada. There are only about 1000 Kodiak Bears left (this is the only place where kodiak bears live, these days)."
Johnnie....if you are going to make up facts at least make them possible.....or at least study some biology, or at very least the people at CNN do.
There is no such species of bear.
There are brown bears that are also known as Grizzlies but to be a "Kodiak Grizzley" the bear has to, oddly enough, come from Kodiak Island, Alaska. Even that is a miss-nomer because traditionally a brown bear lives within 200 miles of the coast while a gizzley is an inland bear. Kodiak Island isn't 200 miles across.
Having actually have been to Ft. St. John on a number of occasions, traveling the Alcan Highway. I can assure everybody out there that I have seen numerous bears from the road.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
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