ANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1369 times:
Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter): Abstinence education, in conjunctuion with teaching kids about birth control methods is the only way to go, not an either/or program
A horny teenage couple that is willing and able will in fact experiment . . . better to equip them for all contingencies rather than one . . . especially one that won't or can't work . . .
Falcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1364 times:
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1): A horny teenage couple that is willing and able will in fact experiment . . . better to equip them for all contingencies rather than one . . . especially one that won't or can't work . .
Agreed. It's bad enough these abstinence-only programs won't even tell kids about condoms, but then for them to deliberately skew or outright lie about scientific fact is appalling.
Of course, we've come to see with the neocon crowd, who love social issues like this, don't care about science: whether it comes to birth control (at home, and embarrasingly, at the UN when talking about AIDS/overpopulation in Africa), or enviornmental issues.
It's really embarrassing, and quite sad, if you ask me.
ANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1331 times:
I'm all for abstinence, being the Father of a blonde haired blue eyed daughter but I'm not so naive to think she might not experiment. So why not have her 'armed and ready' so to speak.
So, since Ohio officially professes only abstinence, it now becomes a parental responsibility to discuss the other options. Wonder how many parents will take the time to do that . . .
And I wonder how many parents who don't will be upset when little Janey comes home knocked up? And who they will blame?
DLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1327 times:
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 4):
So, since Ohio officially professes only abstinence, it now becomes a parental responsibility to discuss the other options. Wonder how many parents will take the time to do that . . .
Wasn't that always the parent's resposibility?
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 4):
And I wonder how many parents who don't will be upset when little Janey comes home knocked up? And who they will blame?
Falcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1311 times:
Quoting ZRH (Reply 5): This is THE reason why the USA have the highest percentage of teenage pregnancies of all western countries! Bravo to a such stupid hypocrisy!
I wouldn't go as far to say "hypocrisy", to be honest. Parents are scared not only about pregnancy, but also STD's. And it isn't like the 70's, when the worst think you could come down with was The Clap. Today, STD's can kill you, and that's scary, especially when dealing with the teenage mantra's of "you just don't understand", and increased hormones.
The problem is that just handing out condoms doesn't work; neither does denying their existence, and telling kids "just say no". Kids are curious and many WILL go have sex. So why not have them armed with the best information on everything? Gee, what a concept, eh?
Unfortunately, like everything else, the extremes in this country are shouting past each other while the common-sense middle gets shouted out. The extreme left wants to just give kids condoms and say "have at it!", while the extreme right tells kids to "Just say no!", but doesn't tell them what's out there in case they don't listen.
Mdsh00 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4101 posts, RR: 9 Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1286 times:
Wasn't the teen birth rate declining in the 90s when methods of contraception were taught rather than abstinence? Just goes to show how stupid that system is.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
SRQCrosscheck From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 211 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1247 times:
60 minutes did a piece just on this issue the Sunday before last. The curriculum is outrageous. In Fort Myers, FL a group called "Silver Ring Thing" receives federal money and asks kids to pledge abstinence. They also tell them that condoms don't work. The program also includes *very* denominational prayer (it's very evangelical; Jews, Muslums, Catholics, Orthodox, moderate Protestants, Buddhist, Bah'ai, you name it, need not apply...).
Ed Bradley interviewed the lecturer of the program, and he said his daughter has decided not to be abstinent; he in turn told her not to use condoms because they don't work and also won't protect her emotionally. (?!?!?) This man receives federal funding, endangers public health, and is a wacko/irresponsible parent...
Let it be known I don't believe in sex before you've been with your partner for quite a long time (or married). But I also believe that to promote public health, middle/high schoolers should learn about contraception and safe sex. 60 Minutes quoted a statistic that more than 3/4 of students who pledge abstinence break this pledge. To make matters worse, a Columbia U. public health professor critical of these programs said that since these programs give false stats on contraceptives, teens who go through these programs are more likely to contract STDs or become pregnant than teens who learned about safe sex. His study published in a respected scholarly journal on adolscent public health showed this convincingly. (I can't remember the name exactly, but you can refer to 60 Minutes, scroll to find the video )
SRQCrosscheck From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 211 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1235 times:
Quoting MD-90 (Reply 11): State schooling shouldn't be teaching any children about any sex education, period.
Teaching about sexual health is a public health necessity.
Someday, we'll be hearing about how state schooling shouldn't be teaching history that's critical of the U.S. Government. Trail of Tears? No... people like General/President Jackson were trying to "secure the homeland" to "preserve American freedoms." Those Native Americans were "terrorizing."
...on a related note, just watched Kinsey the other day. very interesting look at how attitudes about sex have (and haven't) changed in the public eye.
ZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5544 posts, RR: 40 Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1231 times:
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 9): The problem is that just handing out condoms doesn't work;
I absolutely agree. You have to give a good education and explanation. To tell the kids to say "no" is ok, but it is only normal that some still like to try it and will try it.
Quoting MD-90 (Reply 11): State schooling shouldn't be teaching any children about any sex education, period.
Why????? This sounds terribly prude. Sex is as natural as many other things. Why should school not teach this? I don't understand. In most European countries sex education is compulsory and they have much less pregnancies and STD. Of course they don't need to encourage the kids to have sex but it is very important to inform and educate.
LTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12365 posts, RR: 12 Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1225 times:
I believe that different levels and degrees of sexual responsability education should be taught in our public schools and parents should have the option of their child not participating. The parental option would recognize the wide range of faiths including evangelical Christians, Catholics, Hindus, Muslims, conservitive Jewish and other faiths with strict views on sex. Different levels could include 'Abstance only', moderate and liberal programs, but all would have to give accurate info. All would include education to young people about how to reduce the opportunity of sexual activity (like from the use of alcohol and drugs, going to residences or other places without adult/parental presence), the preference of and the advantages of not having sex until at least out of high school, honest knowelge of the risks of STD's, the risks of pregency, including the substantual emotional and finanancial problems it can lead to, some understanding of birth control and abortion including their true risks.
Religious groups should offer as an alternative to public school programs, sexual responsibility programs at their facilities, with the parents attending too, thus assisting the parents in that responsability and to keep it in line with their faith teachings. Planned Parenthood could also offer programs too, especially where Abstence only programs are the only option in some school districts.
PA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1952 posts, RR: 26 Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1219 times:
Quoting MD-90 (Reply 11): State schooling shouldn't be teaching any children about any sex education, period.
Are you kidding me? That's the dumbest thing I've seen in a while on a.net!!!
While conciencious parents might take the time to educate their children about sex and STD's, far too many parents don't. Also how naive can you be to think that most children are going to heed abstinence. If school doesn't teach alternatives, where do you think kids will obtain that information? They get it from their friends! - not the most factual source to rely on. You can't stick your head in the sand and pretend the problem doesn't exist, or that it will go away all by itself. Far better the school system address the issue with clear hard facts than relying on a fraction of parents to address the issue, or worse - equally immature classmates.
Dan2002 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 2055 posts, RR: 5 Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1180 times:
I go to school(and live) in Cleveland, and at my school(well I graduate in like an hour, but still, also RedNGold may have heard of the school.), we had a group called Operation Keepsake come in and hold classes for about a week, pretty boring, didnt phase me too much, im not the type that sleeps around anyways, and I dont need some strangers telling me that marrage is going to keep me from getting a STD, even if I agree about waiting till marrage.
-Dan
A guy asks 'What's Punk?'. I kick over a trash can and its punk. He knocks over a trash can and its trendy.
Phxfly From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 82 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1175 times:
Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 10): Wasn't the teen birth rate declining in the 90s when methods of contraception were taught rather than abstinence? Just goes to show how stupid that system is.
yes the teen pregnancy rate was the lowest in decades. Also, a recent study of abstinence only education programs showed that teens were more likely to engage in others riskier behaviors such as unprotected anal sex. I believe something like 20% of the teens who went through such programs admitted to such behavior. There was also an even higher rate of oral sex.
I knew a girl who had a boyfriend and they were both very religious. She said that admitted to enagaging in anal sex because she wanted to stay a virgin until she was married.
NorCal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2383 posts, RR: 5 Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1125 times:
I'll give my input as a college student who has had to sit through all of these ridiculous abstinence presentations. THEY DON'T WORK. No one pays attention, we end up doing what we want anyways. We are going to experiment anyways, might as well teach us how to do it safely.
Scare tactics about STDs and pregnancy won't work either, we think we are invincible, that it won't happen to us. Always to someone else. Teach us to have safe sex and let us make our own decisions about when we are ready.
Falcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1122 times:
Quoting NorCal (Reply 21): We are going to experiment anyways, might as well teach us how to do it safely.
Actually, I detest the "everyone is doing it" copout. In, there are many teens that chose, freely, not to have sex while they're so young, and I have all the respect in the world for them. I cannot sit here and say that these abstinence-only programs don't reach anyone, because they probably do, and that should not be discounted, and certainly those youngsters who are reached, and do abstain, should not face any disdain.
But the point remains that it would be better off if there was an all-encompasing sex-education class, that doesn't just dismiss abstinence as an option, but also doesn't bury itself in the sand when you're talking about youngsters and their hormones.
NorCal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2383 posts, RR: 5 Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1107 times:
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 22): Actually, I detest the "everyone is doing it" copout. In, there are many teens that chose, freely, not to have sex while they're so young, and I have all the respect in the world for them.
True, but they are few in number.
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 22): But the point remains that it would be better off if there was an all-encompasing sex-education class, that doesn't just dismiss abstinence as an option, but also doesn't bury itself in the sand when you're talking about youngsters and their hormones.
Falcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1105 times:
Quoting NorCal (Reply 23): True, but they are few in number.
If one abstains, then a program is worth keeping, even if I think it needs moderation and direction.
25 MxCtrlr: = Sticking Head In Sand Scary thing here is that I'm agreeing with Falcon84 Seriously, this is garbage. Like Falcon said in the opening post, Abstine
26 Theredbaron: Those guys who promote religious values and abstinence like nazis, are a sight to see. In Mexico we have this guy that for years went on on T.V. advoc
27 ANCFlyer: So, Falcon, reading through this thread this morning (well, it's morning in Alaska anyway), I find with one exception, everyone seems to think the pro
28 MBMBOS: Actually, I've heard that it's quite the trend to get your hands on one of those silver rings and wear it on your middle finger. It's a way of saying
29 Falcon84: Because Ohio has one of the most ideologically ultra-conservative legislatures in the country. And ideologically, ultra-conservative legislatures car
30 MD-90: How 'bout their PARENTS, Saxdiva. Abstinence-only education (one lecture from a local doctor) sure seems to have worked in the youth group at my chur
31 JGPH1A: Which is Christian-speak for "Nobody wants to sleep with me"
32 MD-90: I'll admit that I've seen some girls make such a pledge and thought to myself, why should they bother, no self-respecting man's gonna sleep with them
33 JGPH1A: And I expect if you made discreet enquiries, you'd find that True Love may wait, but Mr/Ms. Right Now In The Back Of My Truck doesn't.
34 Garnetpalmetto: On the nose, JGPH. Back when I was dating my last ex, she was a Southern Baptist and was talking about how great it was that so many of the women and
35 MD-90: Not my kind of girl, thanks. I would agree about the oral sex part, unfortunately.
36 PA110: Again, an extremely foolish and simplistic point of view. If parents don't step up, who is going to? Their friends. Would you really rather see that
37 N1120A: Bullseye John. As far as Falcon goes, you are on to something, though I think all of these things should be taught as a choice. They should not favor
38 MD-90: Quoting PA110 (Reply 36):Remember, not all schools are bad, and most are under the control of local school boards, so you can't just paint the subject
39 Stoney: Good Day As already mentioned above, abstinence alone won't work, not even in extremely religious circles. Here in Switzerland it's pretty normal to s
40 Mham001: Whoever said pregnancy rates were up is wrong. Last years stats said it was going down, primarily among younger students who were more likely to be sw
41 N1120A: For those who think public schooling does not work, I need only to point to European public schools that beat the pants off any school, public or priv
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From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
but I'm not so naive to think she might not experiment. So why not have her 'armed and ready' so to speak. 
From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5544 posts, 
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