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Are Free Masons Really Some Secret Cult?  
User currently offlineWukka From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1017 posts, RR: 16
Posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2511 times:

A friend of mine has a bunch of family members who are masons. I always thought they were just a bunch of guys hanging out, but looking on the net, it seems like there's a lot of "skull and bones" stuff going on.

http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/tracingboard.html

http://www.tlio.demon.co.uk/masons.htm

Now it looks like it might be kinda' scary stuff, even if 1/10th of this is true.

Anyone have any insight?


We can agree to disagree.
41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5644 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2509 times:

Everything I've heard leads me to believe that the Masons are just a bunch of mainly older men who like to get together and socialize. All of the "secret rites" are just for fun.


"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlineWukka From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1017 posts, RR: 16
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2498 times:

Quoting PROSA (Reply 1):
Everything I've heard leads me to believe that the Masons are just a bunch of mainly older men who like to get together and socialize. All of the "secret rites" are just for fun.

That's what I always thought, too. I've just always been interested in it, since most of these guys seem to be respectable members of society. Some of this stuff makes them out to be closet satanists and whatnot, though. I always thought it was something like the Elk's Club or "Fred Flinstone and the Grand Poobah" stuff? Does anyone know anything firsthand?



We can agree to disagree.
User currently offlineSFOMEX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2495 times:

It depends. In America, masons are very open. They have their mason temples and, like PROSA says, they socialize, do charity and so on. They are more open about their ceremonies and almost no member hides his membership to the masonry. I've even attended a couple of funerals under masonic rite.

In other parts of the world, like Mexico, is quite different. They are indeed a secret society whose members are sworn to complete loyalty to the "logia". They are very powerful and many of its members are part of the political and economical elite. When they are in a Catholic country, they try to diminish the Church's power and influence by any possible mean. Just check the history of countries in Latin American, France and Italy for instance.


User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8507 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2486 times:

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 3):
When they are in a Catholic country, they try to diminish the Church's power and influence by any possible mean. Just check the history of countries in Latin American, France and Italy for instance.

And that is what makes me adamantly oppose Freemasonry.


User currently offlineSpringbok747 From Australia, joined Nov 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2475 times:

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 3):
It depends. In America, masons are very open. They have their mason temples and, like PROSA says, they socialize, do charity and so on.

Freemasons are very open here in Australia also. They have a huge building, right in the city centre, here in Adelaide. Their website says:

"Freemasonry is one of the world's oldest fraternal societies.
It is made up of men who are concerned with moral and spiritual values and who pursue a way of life that complements their religious, family and community affiliations. They seek a better way of life and treat all men as equal regardless of race, religion or social standing."

http://www.freemasonrysaust.org.au/freemason.html

I guess they are just a bunch of old people trying to do good. But who the hell knows what their real agenda is.....



אני תומך בישראל
User currently offlineWukka From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1017 posts, RR: 16
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2464 times:

Thanks for the replies so far!

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 3):
When they are in a Catholic country, they try to diminish the Church's power and influence by any possible mean.

So is it just Catholocism, or is it religion in general? From what I understand, at least here in the US, the knights of Columbus are pretty much a Catholic offshoot of the masons. I wouldn't think that the Catholics are trying to undermine their own?



We can agree to disagree.
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20632 posts, RR: 62
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2460 times:

Quoting Wukka (Reply 2):
Does anyone know anything firsthand?

Well, I'm a Mason, but I can't tell you anything, buhahahaha  Smile



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2450 times:

Twenty years ago I worked for a cleaning company while attending university. We were hired to clean a Mason meeting hall. I paged through some of the books, read the stuff on the walls, and found their stash of implements. I remember seeing candles, swords, and vestments. The language in the books was nothing I'd every seen before.

Seeing the Simpson's Stonecutters episode (starring Patrick Stewart) reminded me of that place. It was called "Homer the Great."

"Who controls the British crown?
Who keeps the Metric System down?
We do! We do!
Who leaves Atlantis off the maps?
Who keeps the Martians under wraps?
We do! We do!
Who holds back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star?
We do! We do!
Who robs the cavefish of their sight?
Who rigs every Oscar night?
We do! We do!"


User currently offlineWukka From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1017 posts, RR: 16
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2446 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 7):
Well, I'm a Mason, but I can't tell you anything, buhahahaha

You are? Why can't you say anything? Is it really that secret? I've heard about the asking to be one, but I'm curious if that really works. I'm sure that if that's true that my friend's family members would take me on, but I haven't asked. Like I said, I just started getting interested in this stuff. I just can't figure out if it's really a brotherhood of guys hanging out, or if it's some super-secret cult.



We can agree to disagree.
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20632 posts, RR: 62
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2437 times:

Quoting Wukka (Reply 9):
Is it really that secret?

The initiation ceremony isn't supposed to be talked about at all, but other than that, I think there's a lot of material out there you can read up on it. And yes, you can ask to become a Mason, you just need one to sponsor you, then they do their interviews, initiation, and voila, you're 1st degree.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineWukka From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1017 posts, RR: 16
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2434 times:

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 8):
The language in the books was nothing I'd every seen before.

Was it Latin / Cyrillic, or something like a made-up klingon? I guess I'm asking whether or not you had seen the "letters" before, or if they were completely foreign to you.

Quote:
Seeing the Simpson's Stonecutters episode (starring Patrick Stewart) reminded me of that place. It was called "Homer the Great."

I loved that episode; especially the lyrics that you quoted!



We can agree to disagree.
User currently offlineSFOMEX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2432 times:

Quoting Wukka (Reply 9):
? I've heard about the asking to be one, but I'm curious if that really works. I'm sure that if that's true that my friend's family members would take me on, but I haven't asked.

You may not care, but just to let you know that if you are Catholic or belong to a traditional, conservative Christian denomination you can't become mason. Or rather better, you shouldn't. It's one of the worst sins/offense you can commit. In the Catholic tradition, it would mean ipso facto excommunication.

Why? Centuries of anti-Christian freemasonry. Just to let you know this fact.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20632 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2428 times:

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 12):
You may not care, but just to let you know that if you are Catholic or belong to a traditional, conservative Christian denomination you can't become mason.

Maybe the Founding Fathers of the U.S. either didn't know or didn't care about this rule. I've certainly never heard of it, or even had it suggested, but then I'm from the Scottish Rite side of things.

(Oh, and Wukka, if you become a Shriner, you can wear one of those cool fez's!)



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineSFOMEX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2418 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 13):
Maybe the Founding Fathers of the U.S. either didn't know or didn't care about this rule.

Rather the second, I guess. The majority of the Founding Fathers were Deists, not exactly Christians. Besides, as I posted before, American masonry is somehow different to masonry in other parts of the world.


User currently offlineCaptOveur From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2419 times:

"(Oh, and Wukka, if you become a Shriner, you can wear one of those cool fez's!)"

And drink a lot... Behind both my parents there was a long line of freemasons and Shriners... Both organizations appear to be massive drinking co-ops. The Shriners moreso. (Do you think anyone would drive those little cars sober?)

I think the Shriners are the only people keeping Miller High-life alive.


User currently offlineWukka From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1017 posts, RR: 16
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2408 times:

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 14):
Rather the second, I guess. The majority of the Founding Fathers were Deists, not exactly Christians.

That brings up another interesting point... not to sidetrack my own thread, but I've often wondered why a Deist is considered "less than religious" because, as you said, they're, "not exactly Christians"? If one believes in God, and the trinity is true, then by default, a Deist is also a Christian, no?

Sorry for sidetracking, but theology also interests me!  Smile



We can agree to disagree.
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20632 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2407 times:

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 14):
The majority of the Founding Fathers were Deists, not exactly Christians.

Most were also Episcopalian, which was even the state religion of some of the original states. However, Washington had a Freemason funeral. The funerals the Freemasons and Eastern Star chapters perform are the most dignified I've ever attended.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineWukka From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1017 posts, RR: 16
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2406 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 10):
And yes, you can ask to become a Mason, you just need one to sponsor you, then they do their interviews, initiation, and voila, you're 1st degree.

How does this sponsorship and interview thing work? What does the interview consist of?



We can agree to disagree.
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20632 posts, RR: 62
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2401 times:

Quoting Wukka (Reply 18):
What does the interview consist of?

I can't tell you, and they won't tell you when it will happen. You will have a visitation. Big grin

Quoting Wukka (Reply 16):
by default, a Deist is also a Christian, no?

This essay, "Of the Religion of Deism Compared with the Christian Religion", by Thomas Paine, may interest you.

http://www.deism.com/paine_essay01.htm
Every person, of whatever religious denomination he may be, is a DEIST in the first article of his Creed. Deism, from the Latin word Deus, God, is the belief of a God, and this belief is the first article of every man's creed.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2386 times:

Not a cult as such, I don't think they actually "worship" anything. It's an interesting group though, if you believe all the stories about Templars etc. I'm not sure I believe them, but it's a fun theory.

User currently offlineWukka From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1017 posts, RR: 16
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2384 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 19):
I can't tell you, and they won't tell you when it will happen. You will have a visitation.

Sounds kind of trippy. What kinda' stuff are would they "interview" me about?

Quote:
Every person, of whatever religious denomination he may be, is a DEIST in the first article of his Creed. Deism, from the Latin word Deus, God, is the belief of a God, and this belief is the first article of every man's creed.

That's what I thought. I was under the impression that a Deist was a larger umbrella that covered Christianity and Catholocism, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, etc.



We can agree to disagree.
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20632 posts, RR: 62
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2378 times:

Quoting Wukka (Reply 21):
What kinda' stuff are would they "interview" me about?

It's just a general "get to know you on your turf" kind of interview that could happen at your home or place of business. They'll tell you which ahead of time, but not by whom or when.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineWukka From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1017 posts, RR: 16
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2375 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 20):
I'm not sure I believe them, but it's a fun theory.

That's what I thought, too! When I was looking up the "fun theory" stuff, I ended up at the websites listed in my original link. I find it hard to believe a site that has "part of the conspiracy ring" sitting at the bottom of their page.

Personal opinion so far? Sounds like an interesting bunch, but I'm finding it hard to believe that they're the new world order as claimed.



We can agree to disagree.
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2371 times:

Laughing at what you all think you know (but in reality have absolutely no idea) about the masons is, well, splitting open my spleen.

When I was 13, I was a Demolay, which as some of you may or may not know is basically the teenage masons. Yes, there were secret rituals, but really the only thing they didn't want getting out is the floor patterns and steps of the rituals. Like Mason's, you can ask to be a Demolay, but you have to have a "sponsor" to let you in. Even then, the Demolay's in my state were so starved of members that they sent out letters basically by looking into middle school yearbooks. There would be a guy from the middle school who was already enrolled in Demolay and he'd send out invitations to every guy in the directory, saying "come to our party where you'll learn about us" so I did, I found it actually pretty interesting so I joined. Actually my experiences in Demolay were overall positive, however there was alot of negative to it (but it had nothing to do with the organization, just a select few people from my specific chapter who decided to be douchebags). We had a Conclave every year and heres where it gets really good: Conclaves were Coed, so for 4 days straight it was 13-16 year old guys running around a hotel with 13-16 year old girls from the Rainbow Girls and Jobs Daughters Big grin It was very social, we were doing something almost every weekend, be it paintball, lazertag, just getting together and playing football, all kinds of stuff. Also every year the Monte Vista chapter held a "Bash on the dunes" where we'd basically go hang out at the Great Sand Dunes for a weekend. They did have ritual competitions, which were held at Conclave as well as a few other events such as an early spring competition (the name escapes me), It was held in Dallas the year I went and I won 2nd place national in my field.

I am glad I parted ways with Demolay, firstly I was juggling between school, marching band, and freshman football so something had to go, plus I was having disagreements with other members, though I did make it all the way to Junior Counselor of my chapter, I went to one meeting of that then never came back. I had given all I could and felt like I couldn't get anything more out.

Had I stayed with Demolay, I'd probably be a higherup in the State chapter by now. At 21, I would recieve my majority and at that time become a mason. But I didn't.


25 Post contains images AeroWesty : Well poo, no fez for you then!
26 Avek00 : To the contrary, Masons are expected to be devout believers in their personal religions of choice - an Episcopalian is expected to be a devout Episco
27 SFOMEX : The difference between a Deist and a Christian, Moslem, Buddhist, etcetera, is that a Deist believes in God but without all the Theological doctrine
28 JGPH1A : You misunderstand me. Masons qua masons don't worship anything. They may worship as they like outside (although I thought that Masons normally have n
29 EGGD : At work we've had numerous gatherings of various British lodges for dinners/meetings/womens nights etc. I can't say I agree with Masonry, to me it's a
30 AeroWesty : I can only wonder how many of the people who speak seemingly so expertly on Freemasonry have actually gone through the initiation and become a member.
31 Post contains images Gigneil : The Freemasons in DC are hugely powerful. Big buildings both in the city, and in Alexandria. Many of our founding fathers were Freemasons. I didn't kn
32 Post contains images AeroWesty : They never asked.
33 Post contains images Wukka : For some reason, that little exchange read way too funny. Also, Westy, I kind of agree with you... for as large as freemasonry seems to be, you'd thi
34 MD-90 : That probably should tell you about how important the typical A.net member is, or lack of importance.
35 Srbmod : If I wanted to join the Masons, I wouldn't have too much trouble getting in since my grandfather has been one for over 50 years. Honestly, it's not my
36 B744F : "important" is a very subjective word. Whats important about some families (usually wealthy) getting to gether? its just a big country club, nothing
37 Captoveur : Actually MD-90 it should tell you more about the declining popularity of the Masons. I don't know of anyone who wants to be one. I think it was also m
38 Avek00 : I didn't misunderstand you - there is no official Mason religion, but Masons who do belong to a religious faith of some kind ARE supposed to be devou
39 EGGD : Well, all the lodges i've met carried a larger contingency of older men. There were only a few who i'd say were under 40. Guess that shows you what so
40 MD-90 : I don't think they're important. I'm unimpressed by how much money one has control of. That's not what makes a man virtuous.
41 Slider : Sadly, much like Kiwanis, Lions and Rotary, the majority of civic service organizations are aging. There is a major shift in societal terms from the
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