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Huge Rally In Spain Against Gay Marriage  
User currently offlineSFOMEX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3137 times:

Hundred of thousands of Spaniards took the streets in Madrid to show their indignation for the soon-to-be law that would allow homosexuals to marry and adopt.

Lead by politicians and clergymen, people from all over Spain said that enough is enough to the Socialist president Zapatero, who is pushing for the pass of this divisive piece of legislation through parliament.

The demonstration was not against gays, but in defense of the family and children. It was a festive one, where people send a powerful message to the Socialist government: we won't remain silent.

It seems that people in Spain, the USA and everywhere is ready to fight for what they think is good and sacred.  Smile

http://us.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/06/18/spain.same.sex.ap/index.html

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2005/06/18/espana/1119111135.html

179 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4879 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3127 times:

Forget good and sacred, keep that crap at home or in church. I want the same rights as everyone else.


Next Up: STL-TPA-BWI-PWM-BWI-STL
User currently offlineKC135R From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 725 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3128 times:

Quoting SFOMEX (Thread starter):
The demonstration was not against gays, but in defense of the family and children

Yes, because allowing gay people to marry will definitely harm families and children in some way. How many times do we have to hear this crap? How does two people in love, of the same sex, getting married do ANYTHING to hurt families? I suppose, if it is said enough, people will believe it.

Quoting SFOMEX (Thread starter):
It was a festive one, where people send a powerful message to the Socialist government: we won't remain silent.

AAAH yes, a festive day of excercising the rights of freedom all in the name of limiting freedom just because you don't agree with a certain lifestyle that hurts no one. How festive.  sarcastic 


User currently offlineFDXMECH From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3251 posts, RR: 35
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3127 times:

Did Schoenorama march.
..
..



You're only as good as your last departure.
User currently offlineFlyAUA From Austria, joined May 2005, 4604 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3126 times:

Ugh... gimme a break. Let people do what they want to do. The world would be a better place if everyone minded their own business!


Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
User currently offlineAlberchico From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 2825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3118 times:

Quoting SFOMEX (Thread starter):
The demonstration was not against gays, but in defense of the family and children


Yes that's like the KKK supposedly marching only to look after the interests of ''fellow countrymen''. Its anti-gay no matter how you look at it.
Instead of these idiots protesting something that WILL NOT AFFECT THEM, mabye they should focus on the other serious problems Spain faces.



short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
User currently offlineTPASXM787 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1730 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3114 times:

"Did Schoenorama march."

ROFLAMO.

Nicely done.



This is the Last Stop.
User currently offlineAllstarflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3104 times:

Quoting SFOMEX (Thread starter):
It seems that people in Spain, the USA and everywhere is ready to fight for what they think is good and sacred.

No sweat, SFOMEX - some folks will simply not understand the "why" about upholding traditional marriage in light of the undermining to the institution that gay marriage would bring. But, then, we've discussed it to death and beyond here, anyway.

Glad to know I put the right guy on my RR list.   


-By the way, this issue is difficult to explain from a conservative, Bible-believing standpoint, so in foresight to the posts that may follow, hopefully there will less mud-slinging back and forth this time. But I do feel there some who oppose my view who will never be able to see it from this perspective. Let civility ensue.

Edited for content

-R

[Edited 2005-06-19 02:55:12]

User currently offlineGQfluffy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3095 times:

If you are gay and want to marry, FINE. But don't come out and freakin flaunt it in my face! Don't demand my respect, because you won't get it.  talktothehand  I'll support your right to be married if that's what you want, but I won't support your choice.  tapedshut 

fluffy


User currently offlineKC135R From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 725 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3095 times:

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 7):
in light of the undermining to the institution that gay marriage would bring.

From someone who strongly believes this, obviously, I want to know why you feel this way. Because I can't see how, in any way, allowing gay marriage undermines the institution. So please - enlighten me, why do you feel this way?


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3094 times:

Quoting SFOMEX (Thread starter):
The demonstration was not against gays, but in defense of the family and children.

If your marriage is irretrievably damaged by two men or women getting married somewhere else then, my friend, your marriage has not been worth anything at all right from the start.

Don´t blame your own problems on others.

You have my pity and compassion.


User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3077 times:

Do I need to say that these people who have nothing better to do then worry about gay people getting married ARE THE problem: AGAIN??

User currently offline1MillionFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3080 times:

Quoting SFOMEX (Thread starter):
Hundred of thousands of Spaniards took the streets in Madrid to show their indignation for the soon-to-be law that would allow homosexuals to marry and adopt.

Or their vitriolic adherence to a church that has paid over 1 Billion dollars in hush money to abused children and destroyed families...NICE


Lead by politicians and clergymen, people from all over Spain said that enough is enough to the Socialist president Zapatero, who is pushing for the pass of this divisive piece of legislation through parliament.

The demonstration was not against gays, but in defense of the family and children. It was a festive one, where people send a powerful message to the Socialist government: we won't remain silent.

should read "the protest was for the continuation of ignoring the teachings of Jesus...I seem to remember Jesus hung out with social "degenerates" also during his day and told others "what you do unto the least of my children you do unto me"

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 7):
No sweat, SFOMEX - some folks will simply not understand the "why" about upholding traditional marriage in light of the undermining to the institution that gay marriage would bring. But, then, we've discussed it to death and beyond here, anyway.

Exactly...In the US we have 50% divorce rate and 60% of married people admit having affairs, God forbid we endanger that!

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 8):
If you are gay and want to marry, FINE. But don't come out and freakin flaunt it in my face! Don't demand my respect, because you won't get it

This was an anti-gay marriage protest, no one was flaunting anything except perhaps gay people with a sad face flaunting low self esteem caused from people that hate them for being who they are.


User currently offlineSFOMEX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3068 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 10):
If your marriage is irretrievably damaged by two men or women getting married somewhere else then, my friend, your marriage has not been worth anything at all right from the start.

Don´t blame your own problems on others.

You have my pity and compassion.

I'd suggest you to look for a good book of logic and then learn what an "ad hominem" argument is. Once you know this, reread your post and realize why your arguments are flawed.

When you're ready to argue this in a proper and rational way, I'd be more than glad to share with you the reasons behind my post.

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 7):
Glad to know I put the right guy on my RR list.

Thanks. I welcome you too to my RUL.

Quoting Alberchico (Reply 5):
Yes that's like the KKK supposedly marching only to look after the interests of ''fellow countrymen''. Its anti-gay no matter how you look at it.

Wrong analogy. Protesters weren't neither burning gay households nor beating the s*** out of lesbians and gays. Their rally was in support of traditional family. That's it.

Quoting SFOMEX (Thread starter):
AAAH yes, a festive day of excercising the rights of freedom all in the name of limiting freedom just because you don't agree with a certain lifestyle that hurts no one. How festive.

It was a festive one. I think I wouldn't never attend a gay pride march, but I can't deny that they are a festive and happy demonstration.


User currently offlineGQfluffy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3062 times:

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 12):
This was an anti-gay marriage protest, no one was flaunting anything except perhaps gay people with a sad face flaunting low self esteem caused from people that hate them for being who they are.

My post didn't really have anything to do with today's protest, it was just my opinion in general.

fluffy


User currently offline1MillionFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3061 times:

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 13):
I'd suggest you to look for a good book of logic and then learn what an "ad hominem" argument is. Once you know this, reread your post and realize why your arguments are flawed.

Translated from Latin to English, "Ad Hominem" means "against the man" or "against the person."

An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:


Person A makes claim X.
Person B makes an attack on person A.
Therefore A's claim is false.


I suggest you understand what you have said and quit insulting others' point of view.


User currently offlineGreasespot From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 3076 posts, RR: 21
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3056 times:

We have had gay marriage in canada for over two years (in some provinces)....and I really have not noticed the traditional family collapsing....

Not even sure if there is a danger of it collapsing.....Go figure....guess the church and bigots were wrong...

GS



Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
User currently offlineKC135R From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 725 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3042 times:

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 13):
Wrong analogy. Protesters weren't neither burning gay households nor beating the s*** out of lesbians and gays. Their rally was in support of traditional family. That's it.

So stop avoiding the question - how does gay marriage harm the traditional family?


User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3036 times:

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 15):
Translated from Latin to English, "Ad Hominem" means "against the man" or "against the person."

I swear this is not a slam of your remarks, they seem educated, so that's why I'm asking.

Care to educate me on "Ad Absurdum"?

I saw it in the place where most chicks are getting tattoos these days (the small of the back) and I thought it was an interesting choice of location given what I GUESSED it meant.

I looked it up on wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum
and I GUESS the reductio part totally changes what her intent was.

Please let me know  Smile


User currently offlineF9Widebody From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1604 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3039 times:

Quoting FDXMECH (Reply 3):
Did Schoenorama march.

No, he is the Socialist president that SFOMEX was talking about.  Wink



YES URLS in signature!!!
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3036 times:

SFOMEX, since you´re obviously panicking in fear that gay people marrying would somehow (how exactly?) damage marriage between men and women, it is obviously necessary to address your unfounded panic.

You´re completely empty-handed on support for your ludicrous claims. It´s your own demons you´re looking at.


User currently offlineKC135R From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 725 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3036 times:

Quoting SFOMEX (Reply 13):
It was a festive one. I think I wouldn't never attend a gay pride march, but I can't deny that they are a festive and happy demonstration.

My point is - the whole premise behind trying to limit another persons freedom, just because you disagree with a lifestyle that harms no one, is what makes it impossible to be festive. It's like laughing at a funeral, it isn't appropriate.

[Edited 2005-06-19 03:19:14]

User currently offlineAllstarflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3030 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 10):
If your marriage is irretrievably damaged by two men or women getting married somewhere else then, my friend, your marriage has not been worth anything at all right from the start.

Don´t blame your own problems on others.

You have my pity and compassion.

Hm. Well, I won't blame my problems on others, so thanks for that encouragement, though I've never been impressed that you are one for compassion, but I'll take your word for it. But, this doesn't necessarily affect any marriage currently between any two heterosexual people. It's about the institution itself.

Quoting KC135R (Reply 9):
From someone who strongly believes this, obviously, I want to know why you feel this way. Because I can't see how, in any way, allowing gay marriage undermines the institution. So please - enlighten me, why do you feel this way?

Well, for starters, God's Word simply condemns the sexual interaction of two people of the same gender (Romans 1). That should be enough, but for most, it isn't.
Also, a same-sex marriage doesn't provide any children with the nurturing care of the mother along with the strength and direction a father can provide (among other things, as well). Yeah, yeah - many same-sex couples have children that have shown no adverse effects of such a relationship, yada, yada, yada. Show me some "scientific" evidence that proves a same-sex couple can provide as fit a home environment as a married heterosexual couple can. And, yeah, folks can go on (with limited examples)about how some traditional homes are full of so many problems and issues - dad beats mom, dad cheats, dad and mom divorce and so on. I'm talking about on the whole.
Also, any society that has adopted homosexuality on the whole has quickly fallen never to return. Like it or not, the Bible is also a historical book, so Sodom and Gomorrah cannot be simply dismissed as nothing. And there's also Rome, at the end of the empire.
I could go on and on, but (beyond the moral perspectives) in the end this is a legal issue. And as long as there are morally-minded individuals in power (or, at least, individuals who listen to their morally-minded constituents), there will not be same-sex marriage (except, for some reason, in Massachusetts). And, no, it's not against anyone's Constitutional rights to not provide the same provisions and recognition to same-sex couples as they are provided to married heterosexual couples. It's just not found in the Constitution - not in Article IX, or Article XIV or anywhere else. And, unfortunately, there's almost no way to tell it like it is without appearing arrogant to some, but, it's just that simple, regardless of the coming windfall of contention.

-R


User currently offline1MillionFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3021 times:

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 18):
I swear this is not a slam of your remarks, they seem educated, so that's why I'm asking.

Care to educate me on "Ad Absurdum"?

No negative taken, that is a very good analogy as well.

It basically says if one person's opinion about a topic can be disproved, all opinions are invalid. I find that quite appropo.

I try to never judge anyone else since I don't live in their body and do not have their life experience. I tend to respect the laws of the land and respect others as I was taught to do as a good Catholic boy (10 Years of Catholic school!).

Thank you for adding some levity to the situation.

On a side note, per your profile I agree, MCSE's can make some HUGE messes!


User currently offlineGreasespot From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 3076 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3020 times:

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 22):
Yeah, yeah - many same-sex couples have children that have shown no adverse effects of such a relationship, yada, yada, yada. Show me some "scientific" evidence that proves a same-sex couple can provide as fit a home environment as a married heterosexual couple can.

Show me some scientific proof that it DOES harm...


Not everyone believes in YOUR god or your Book. Plenty of people look it as one of the greatest works of fiction interspersed with embelishments or real events...


I am still waiting to hear how Gay marriage harms your family.....Wait i know........Your married and you mary a man......That would probabbly be the end of your traditional family...Seriously i cannot see how a gay marriage hurt yours....Againg it comes down to arrogant people sticking their nose into places they have no business stiicking it....I do not stick my nose into your life so please do not stick your into mine....

GS



Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
25 Post contains images Allstarflyer : If proclaiming principles found in God's Word is a problem, I guess I have to choose between what He thinks and what you or someone else thinks. A re
26 Garnetpalmetto : I'd point out that people also said that marriage would collapse if interracial marriage was permitted because it violated biblical precepts. Looks li
27 Post contains links TedTAce : Tell that to the rest of your ilk who say it destroys 'normal' families Yeah because that is a quote from a book written by men purporting it to be '
28 1MillionFlyer : Better wip out Leviticus, divorce, and shellfish are also an abomination, I say we burn all the Red Losters tonight!
29 Klaus : The "objective source" being a book of fiction that has been disproved in any claim which could ever be verified? You´re kidding, right? The essence
30 SFOMEX : Society everywhere is based upon some fundamental bases. Among them, family is at the top. Despite the many differences we can find in each culture,
31 1MillionFlyer : In light of your last paragraph, I respectfully submit that married couples who cannot or do not wish to have children should be forced to divorce si
32 Allstarflyer : Refer to my previous posts - I didn't say it harmed my marriage in particular but that it undermines the institution as a whole. When God said “It
33 KC135R : Well not everyone believes in God, or Christianity specifically, so that is irrelevant. Besides, the whole point of Christianity is being "Christ Lik
34 1MillionFlyer : That would be for religious marriage, not civil marriage they are two different concepts, that whole "seperation of church and state" in the constitu
35 SFOMEX : Hehehe, good argument. The only problem is that you fail to see the ontologic distintion between a a gay couple and a childless marriage. (Sorry if I
36 LTBEWR : One problem with same gender 'Gay' civil (government license) marriage, is that those whom issue the licenses or may be asked to preform a civil 'Gay'
37 KC135R : How will it add to the divorce rate? So it's ok to commit some sins, God will forgive you for that - just not homosexuality. Aaah yes, the hypocritic
38 KC135R : Wait, let me get this straight - what makes a family is having the ability, whether you choose to use it or not, to procreate? That's what we accept
39 1MillionFlyer : What am I missing? That is why we have the seperation of church and state, No church is allowed to run the country. Your logic also applies to pharmi
40 Post contains images Allstarflyer : Yeah, but that goes back to the (continuing) arguements that homosexual behavior is akin natural born characteristics, such as color. Well, honestly,
41 Greasespot : And Thus I am not asking you To understand it from my perspective.....I want you to stay the hell out of my life.....MY family.....I am not trying to
42 Post contains images Zeekiel : Gay people who live and build a life together as a couple are our bankers, police, pilots, neighbours, executives and in some cases family and friends
43 KC135R : Do you know that it's not?
44 SFOMEX : Hundreds of years of tradition. Most world's religions. The vast majority of the people. Yes, I do. I posted that the family is a the core of what ma
45 KC135R : Well if it's just an issue of wording, you and I don't disagree, per se. Would you agree that civil unions should provide all the protections of marr
46 1MillionFlyer : my point is that many Christians (of which I count myself) gleefully insult others yet forget that when you point a finger there are three pointing b
47 KC135R : Actually, I take issue with this remark. I think humanity is the core of society, the part of humanity that has to do with being humane and benevolen
48 Adam : If they chose not to have a family, they are not fulfilling the "duty" for lack of better word, that God has given us humans. In lieu of children, th
49 1MillionFlyer : KC135R very well put. Thank you!
50 Post contains images Allstarflyer : Well said. He wouldn't do that. But it's from His Word (which I've referenced) from which I take this position. So is His Word self-contradictory? No
51 Allstarflyer : What do you need, a knock in the head, Grease? You don't, nor won't, see me in your life, so clean the foam off your mouth. Being a Christian, it's i
52 1MillionFlyer : So those 500 Pound high haired tele-evangelists will burn for their gluttony also?
53 Allstarflyer : Well, bluntly, that's often their own dumb fault for being that way. -R
54 VSLover : yes and my mother and father believe that whatever and whomever i choose is my family, thus their family. mom and dad=ultra catholic btw. so who are
55 Post contains images KC135R : It has not been proven one way or the other yet, that's my point. But ask any gay person in they chose to be gay, I'll bet you $50 they say no. Why w
56 KC135R : By the way, I read the article again and noticed this little tidbit: Opinion polls indicate a majority of Spaniards support the bill. I would have tho
57 Flyboy1980 : Society does not dictate what a "family" is - a family is any group of people who consider themselves as such - whether it be Mum, Dad and kids, 2 gay
58 Allstarflyer : To put it bluntly, self-indulgence. Not all of that is wrong, for example - I indulge in chocolate sometimes, but I've been able to hack it still at
59 Post contains images KC135R : OK - you admit there is not signs of how being gay is harmful to the social order, but claim that it is harmful to the social order, or will be at so
60 KC135R : Let me rephrase, are you close to anyone who is gay, like a gay friend or acquaintance?
61 JpetekYXMD80 : Just one feeling for this.....how sad. Oh who are you trying to kid, SFOMEX? What an utter crock of bullshit commentary. How would an anti-gay marriag
62 JoseMEX : Glad to see the demonstration was a success beyond anyone's (even the organizers') expectations. And glad to see that it was a peaceful, orderly demon
63 KC135R : Why? Since the majority of the population in Spain support the bill, what was the point of this? I mean, they are more than welcome to do it - but wh
64 KC135R : I found some interesting thoughts to ponder from the authors of a book which challenges the notion that gay marriage is such an terrible thing. The au
65 Diamond : Disagree. Obviously it requires the biological contribution of a male and a female to produce a child ... but conceiving a child does not create a fa
66 Post contains images Mir : Of course it was. That's really all that gays are asking for. They're not asking for universal acceptance - they know it's not going to happen. But t
67 Post contains images Gkirk : Just think of it this way, the more gay men there is, the more women there are available for us straight guys I dont think gay marriage should be bann
68 AviationMaster : "I dont think gay marriage should be banned, but gays (men or women) should be banned from adopting. Just imagine the abuse that the kid would get at
69 Post contains images Gkirk : You make a good point there, but I think that a child show grow up with a mum and dad, and not 2 dads or 2 mums (I supopose both are virtually the sa
70 QANTASforever : HA! I'd like to know how my family unit - consisting of a man (me), woman, and two children is going to be endangered by the presence of legally marr
71 WhiteHatter : I know a number of children who have grown up to be young adults with same-sex parents. They grew up in loving, supportive homes and have grown up to
72 CORULEZ05 : ..because gay marriage destroys those values????? I'm not surprised to hear of yet another rally against gay marriage. All this talk about family val
73 Flyboy36y : I saw this, it was did not seem that big. They were making so much noise that I could not fully enjoy my late siesta.
74 SKYSERVICE_330 : What is a traditional family? The concept has changed so many times that I am hard pressed to come up with a definition. At one time a traditional fa
75 KC135R : Which makes perfect sense, thanks for bringing that up. For those who argue the other side: We all get that religion does not support gay marriage -
76 SFOMEX : I've posted it before, but I'd like to ask it again. Why most gays activists don't realize that gay marriage is hurting gays everywhere? Why most gays
77 JpetekYXMD80 : That would be true for the most part.....in the U.S. where there is more opposition. Opinion turned fact? nice try. Once again, this applies more the
78 Scorpio : Speak for yourself. Gay marriage has been legal in my country for a few years now, and from what I see, it hasn't pissed off ANYONE (except for one o
79 KC135R : I agree, insisting on the word marriage is not furthering the cause - but what difference does a name make either way (why won't heterosexual people
80 1MillionFlyer : no one is trying to piss off churches, come on now, you would think 1 Billion dollars the Catholic church has paid in hush money since 1950 would be
81 SFOMEX : Reread MY posts and tell me where I used religious arguments backing my reasons. Of course my faith is part of why I oppose gay marriage. Yet, I didn
82 Mir : Civil unions? Tell it to the states that passed anti-gay marriage referendums in the past US election. I know that in North Dakota, the referendum th
83 1MillionFlyer : Ok now this is just a massive contridiction. The religious people say outlaw abortion, where will all these unwanted children go? So if a child's par
84 JpetekYXMD80 : Common sense? Are you joking. The fact is that many of these children would have NEITHER a father or a mother. Who cares if you didn't obviously ment
85 JpetekYXMD80 : Thats what i think conservatives have become these days. One massive contradiction.
86 AviationMaster : All I can say is that the church having a say in politics is fortunately a thing of the past... or so I thought
87 Post contains images FlyAUA : That's all... you think it's just about sex?! Sorry, I may have misunderstood your statement, but if that's what you think being gay is about, then y
88 SFOMEX : I support any amendment that would make sure marriage remains as it is now. I don't support any piece of legislation that would strip law abiding cit
89 Post contains links Jaysit : This protest was organized by 12 bishops in the Catholic Church on the command of the new medieval Emperor in the Vatican. What do you expect from a b
90 SFOMEX : I understand your bitterness. It must be hard to realize that you will never, ever see legislation like that being enacted in the USA. Let me say it
91 Post contains links Allstarflyer : Highlight this: That's because I was at work and I needed to finish a thing or two before leaving. Fine. A child is worse-off with gay parents becaus
92 Greasespot : Actually in canada there will be no protections for civil officials who refuse.....Nor should they be...They are civic officials and not religious on
93 Allstarflyer : Often, that is true. But a lot of conservatives draw their material from the Bible, which is not self-contradictory, but harmonious. If not more, huh
94 EZEIZA : Sorry, no time to read all the posts, but isn't the major concern the fact that gay married couples will be able to adopt children, and no tthe fact t
95 Allstarflyer : So, in light of that, with some of you (unfortunately), I can forget this: So sling your mud. I may come back to this topic, though, I feel it's pret
96 FlyAUA : I meant in all aspects... glad you agree. I share your view on this one too. I also stated that I do not feel it's the optimal situation for a kid...
97 QANTASFOREVER : Kids will taunt other kids if they are disabled, have a speech impediment, look funny, are fat, are of a certain race, etc etc. As a mixed-race perso
98 Garnetpalmetto : The argument that "it's confusion" has been used time and time again in a wide variety of fields. People of different religions or different sects of
99 Diamond : Nothing "sideways" about it at all. You said the following: You are saying that a person's "indulgences" are paving the way to homosexuality. So the
100 Post contains images TedTAce : Thanks for the info A) Read what?!?! Have I not demonstrated enough disdain for this BOOK that you still think I will touch a page it for any reason?
101 Post contains links 1MillionFlyer : The bible is not harmonious especially in it's English translation. You should learn to read Latin and Hebrew if you truly want to understand the Bib
102 Post contains images JGPH1A : Ever the optimist, eh Kirkie ? Don't get your hopes up - even if the entire male population of the planet joined the Judy Garland fan club, you still
103 Toulouse : Just to gime my humble opinion in the hope of not getting flamed. Firstly, I sadly fear this protest in Spain me be reflective of how conservative tha
104 Post contains images Kingsford : I don't think children at school get so obsessed about who has what parents and how do they look like. Generally only one parent shows up at school to
105 Sovietjet : You people and all your technical explanations...you don't need all this technical crap to explain why something is wrong or right. Personally I would
106 Greyhound : I agree. I know/knew several gay people, and I respected their sexual preference, whether I agreed with it and thought it was morally acceptable or n
107 Dvk : SFOMEX, if you believe that gays can't be married because of the inability to procreate, then you and the Catholic Church must also forbid postmenopau
108 Gigneil : Then, frankly, you don't deserve to be an American. Wanting to infringe on someone's rights because of your beliefs makes you a terrorist. I am sure
109 Johnboy : Ah, the Christian gay "experts" are out in droves again tonight, i see. I think we know who the real threats to American society are. I appreciate all
110 Greyhound : Are you really that stupid? Did you not read my whole post? Apparently you didn't read after the quote you selected. You're telling me I can't have m
111 Post contains images KC135R : Hmm, first this: Then this: I believe you just contradicted yourself. So what, so do overweight kids, disabled kids, funny looking kids, poor kids, et
112 PA110 : Perhaps it is time for a secular inquisition. I for one have had enough of bible bashing bigots telling me what I can and cannot do with my life. Why
113 TedTAce : Punnishable by death.... Want a divorce? Hey..it's 'till death' do you part, here's Dr. Jack, now go to sleep..forever..There's your divorce...
114 KC135R : I understand your point, and I realize you are exaggerating to make a point - but don't fall into the tit-for-tat trap that the "opposition" would li
115 TedTAce : Like Kirkie and.......
116 PA110 : No worries - just venting. Besides, rounding them all up and feeding them to the lions would be a tad 'over-the-top', don't you think?
117 Post contains images KC135R : Depends on who specifically you want to feed to the lions: Dr. James Dobson Rev. Jerry Falwell Tony Perkins Michael Savage Sean Hannity I'm just kidd
118 Garnetpalmetto : KC135R - you left off #1 with a bullet - Fred Phelps.
119 KC135R : Not familiar with him, I'll have to do some homework.
120 Jaysit : I know you love to engage in name-calling fests over these threads. It's part of your bitter nature. Yet, It'd be nice to be able to have some adult,
121 Mt99 : Just skimmed thru all responses here. I just got back home from The Netherlands. It was my first time there. I was impresed at the peace and the quali
122 Post contains images N229NW : Coming into this late, where to start: What? An infertile heterosexual couple does not have any more "ontological" potential to have a family than a g
123 Basas : The point is that majority of Americans (and Canadians for that matter) citizens oppose same-sex marraige. Why a few liberal judges think they can ov
124 Jaysit : The point is that majority of Americans (and Canadians for that matter) citizens oppose same-sex marraige. Why a few liberal judges think they can ove
125 JpetekYXMD80 : Oh Christ, not this majority rules BS again...spare us. These 'few liberal judges' don't think they can over-rule the majority...THEY CAN. It is a ju
126 KC135R : Calling a judge an activist when you don't agree with how they rule has become the fashionable thing to do these days. Regardless, when a judge rules
127 Sovietjet : These arguments always turn into this, the couple of people with their technical explanations supporting gays go off against the couple of people with
128 JpetekYXMD80 : Which is, once again, not really an issue.
129 SFOMEX : Let me give you a different scenario. Imagine for a moment that tomorrow the Supreme Court reverses its Row Vs. Wade decision. In a 5 to 4 vote, they
130 JpetekYXMD80 : If you accept that any judge must always consider the will of the majority, its an argument that backfires immediately. Everyone knows that attempts
131 SFOMEX : Fair enough. Tell Planned Parenthood that those opposing abortion are Pro-Life and not Anti-Choice. One side likes to be called Pro-Life, the other s
132 N229NW : How many abandoned kids have you adopted then? If you really have, then I applaud you. If all you do is force more crack babies to be born and left i
133 N1120A : The reason it is difficult to explain is because the view is plainly bigoted and baseless. There is nothing civil about infringing on the rights of o
134 FDXMECH : I'm still wating for Schoenorama to weigh in. ... ...
135 Greyhound : Here we go again. Apparently I have to explain myself AGAIN. Advocating preventing his rights? Where? I gave my stance on gay marriage. Highlight the
136 JpetekYXMD80 : A major point is that this is hardly an issue to be determined by a popular vote, as addressed in my statements about 'majority rules' above.
137 Post contains images Greyhound : I was just saying if it ever did come to a vote, that's the way I would vote. If not, then things will happen as they may. I'm not the type to waste
138 JpetekYXMD80 : Fair enough. I do have a question though: if your state had a referendum to ban gay marriage, how would you vote? Like others of its kind, it would i
139 Greyhound : I guess, like a constitutional amendment, I would vote to pass the referendum. HOWEVER, with the last part of what you said, that's where I may NOT v
140 JpetekYXMD80 : Yeah, i was talking about the state referendums that we saw in the last election. A Constitutional amendment would not have the same far reaching leg
141 Jaysit : For the record, I use this opportunity to say once again that I support a ban on abortion for gay couples not because I don't believe that gays couple
142 Sovietjet : Face it, gay marriages will get divorces too but now instead of the child losing a mom or dad it'll lose one of its 2 moms or dads. Same sh*t differen
143 Basas : Obviously they can. I'm not advocating a majority rules system. I'm saying, why are we trying to change something the MAJORITY of our population is s
144 Jaysit : Right...and how do these judges know what the constitution means? They're no better at interpreting things than the rest of us and the fact remains, m
145 Basas : Education doesn't make you right. How can you say someone is right, and someone else is wrong in interpreting something? You can't. But then again, I
146 Jaysit : No, just openly laughing at you.
147 Basas : Thats fine. 70% of the population is laughing at you.
148 Jaysit : They can laugh all they want. I bet they were laughing when the Supreme Court kicked out anti-miscagenation and all sorts of popular Jim Crow laws in
149 Basas : Anti-gay laws are a totally different issue (that should be changed) than marraige. We'll see when it ever happens in the US, then you can laugh.
150 Jaysit : I will. In the interim, I'll just laugh at you and your childish assertions that you're just as qualified to interpret the US Constitution as a Supre
151 Post contains images Basas : We all wish we could be as smart as you, your highness.
152 Post contains images KC135R : The problem with the "will of the majority" is that the majority is not always right in the eyes of the constitution. The majority wanted to own slav
153 Flybyguy : Wow you are the envy of every child of religious parents, my parents would freak if I was gay or married anyone of a different race. As for this disc
154 1MillionFlyer : Well that's a perfectly good thing to wish for, it's not easy being gay with everyine telling you you are wrong, morally bankrupt etc.
155 KC135R : I would imagine there are some good and some bad gay relationships, just like there are heterosexual ones that fit both categories. If you forbid peo
156 Basas : Of course they know about the constitution. But when such a majority disagrees, there is a problem. Not only that, but most judges tend to have a Lib
157 JpetekYXMD80 : You just don't get it, do you?
158 Basas : Get what? That judges are totally out of touch with the public?
159 Flybyguy : I don't think that all gays are morally bankrupt, but I am saying that it is very difficult for a stable gay relationship to exist (most especially m
160 OzarkD9S : I weep everyday...bigotry is alive and well. All in the name of GOD.
161 KC135R : No, there is not a problem. Judges are bound to uphold the constitution - nothing else. They are not there to do the popular thing or bend and twist
162 SFOMEX : Your post touched me Ozark. I have made clear before that I utterly despise any bigotry, but especially homophobia. I do it out of my values and beli
163 OzarkD9S : SFOMEX: I don't think YOU hate gays. Unfortuantely your religious beliefs put you in the middle. You have a deep belief in your religion. (I for one a
164 N229NW : SFOMEX (and Gkirk for that matter): I'm still wondering how you justify your adoption stances given the reality of the life these kids face. (See me e
165 Rlwynn : Good for the people of Spain. Man+Woman=Marraige
166 Post contains images JpetekYXMD80 : Thank you, for the extremely intelligent and informational post. And yes, food for the people of Spain. Gay marriage has been approved and it seems a
167 Rlwynn : I have zero problem with Homosexuals. But there is no such thing as a marriage between two people of the same sex. Call it what you want but it is not
168 Garnetpalmetto : Pop quiz. Back when the Supreme Court looked at Brown v. Board of Education, they took a position that was "out of touch with the public." As they di
169 1MillionFlyer : So my household which can give a child everything is not as good as the child living with drug addicted public assistence parents.... hmm interesting
170 Post contains images Allstarflyer : Been away for a few days on my days-off. Well, I'd rather study Scripture from its Arabic, Hebraic and Greek (Koine) origins, since it was written in
171 Basas : Which begs the question- should judges really be appointed?
172 Mir : Got a better idea? Judges being elected is, IMHO, no good at all. How are the judges supposed to make impartial decisions when they know that they mi
173 Basas : Never said they SHOULD be elected- i just think its an interesting topic of discussion. After all, a democracy should be focused on the people's want
174 Post contains images KC135R : I cringe at your pessimistic description of America today. Just because everyone does not live by your morals does not make us a lawless, awful socie
175 Allstarflyer : I sometimes have a pessimistic view of humanity in general. Aside the fact we're all sinners, we all do bad things (little or big) - name me one soci
176 1MillionFlyer : so you never read the old testement?
177 KC135R : The Son of God, part of the Holy Trinity, I am aware - but at any rate the OVERWHELMING point of the message of Jesus is one of forgiveness, acceptan
178 JpetekYXMD80 : That is an EXTREMELY good point you have there. Theres this incredible bad wrap for all gay people being sex freaks who sleep around all the time. Wh
179 SN-A330 : This thread has gone off-topic and will be archived. Regards SN-A330 forum moderator
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