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Catholic Pharmacist Won't Sell Contraceptives  
User currently offlineOzLAME From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 338 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1876 times:

A pharmacist in a country town here has decided to stop selling the Pill, unless it is for a medical reason such as acne or difficulties when menstruating; or condoms. While I don't agree with his decision, I do admire that he is actually doing more than paying lip-service to his faith - people who profess to be Christians so often seem to me to be such hypocrites.
In case you were wondering, I went to an Anglican school and had to go to chapel twice a week.


Monty Python's Flying Circus has nothing to do with aviation, except perhaps for Management personnel.
77 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineL.1011 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 2209 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1871 times:

Old news. All he's doing is losing business, so what do we care? If he thinks he is preventing people from having sex he really overestimates how much the average citizen of the developed world cares about religion.

User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1871 times:

I want to say that Floriduh law prohibits such actions. People in the medical field not making the initial treatment decisions themselves have no right to deny care to a patient not matter how strongly they disagree with the manner of treatment.

User currently offlineBoeing4ever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1866 times:

I'm Catholic, but I will say this...more business for other pharmacists in this case.

Personally, the more responsible (and more in line with his faith) thing to do would be to dispense the contraceptives so as to prevent unwanted pregnancy and a potential abortion.

This is where my "basic opposition to abortion" comes from...most of them could be preventable in the first place if only we allowed comprehensive sex ed that taught abstinence and full contraceptive advice...gives people multiple tools in the tool chest...that's always a good thing.

 airplane B4e-Forever New Frontiers airplane 


User currently offlineSFOMEX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 1824 times:

Quoting L.1011 (Reply 1):
All he's doing is losing business, so what do we care?

Damn right. If he doesn't want to sell them, plenty will do. I admire him too for standing for his beliefs.

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 2):
People in the medical field not making the initial treatment decisions themselves have no right to deny care to a patient not matter how strongly they disagree with the manner of treatment.

I don't think your description is accurate. This guy is not a doctor and he is not selling contraceptives, not exactly a matter of life or death. I'm sure other drugstore will pick up the business he's losing.


User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7105 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1795 times:

While I admire the man for standing up for things he believe in, The world is so 'screwed up' now that it will have hardly any/if any affect on other consumers.

User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14026 posts, RR: 62
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1791 times:

I encountered this problem is certain rural areas in Ireland, around the pilgrimage centre Knock. Even pups, which elsewehere in Ireland have a condom machine in their men's room didn't sell any. The problem starts when this pharmacy is the only one in the village and the next one which sells contraceptives is outside the county, especially for teenagers, who don't have access to a car.

Also, in Ireland I was friends with a German family which had already three children. The mother, in her early 30s decided that three was enough, and went to the only gynaecologist in the area (at this time they were living in Clifden, Co. Galway, a very rural area), and the gynaeclogist refused to prescribe the pill because " she was still young and could still have plenty of children". Same problem, the next gyn was about 40 km away.

Jan


User currently offlineQANTASforever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1780 times:

Quoting OzLAME (Thread starter):
While I don't agree with his decision, I do admire that he is actually doing more than paying lip-service to his faith - people who profess to be Christians so often seem to me to be such hypocrites.

I don't admire anything about this at all. In this day and age, it's utterly ridiculous to deny people birth control. It's not going to stop people having sex and it will lead to unwanted pregnancies - and we all know what that means - the "a" word!

Religious logic strikes again!

Quoting OzLAME (Thread starter):
In case you were wondering, I went to an Anglican school and had to go to chapel twice a week.

No, I wasn't wondering. But now you mention it - what bearing does this have on your opinion? Are you telling us you're unable to be objective because of the kind of school you went to?

QFF


User currently offlineJasepl From India, joined Jul 2004, 3582 posts, RR: 39
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1773 times:

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 7):

I don't admire anything about this at all. In this day and age, it's utterly ridiculous to deny people birth control. It's not going to stop people having sex and it will lead to unwanted pregnancies - and we all know what that means - the "a" word!

Religious logic strikes again!

I agree. It's a shop, for eff's sakes. Besides, don't the chemists shops have to be licensed by the government? If so, I would have thought they are required to conform to the government's established standards and requirements and not the Church's.


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13113 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1765 times:

There has been some debate on this in the USA. Some states have laws that prohibit a pharmacist from denying to fill any prescirption from a medical doctor. Other states allow for 'personal concise' denial. Some large pharmacies or those connected with major retailers, including WalMart, will not carry emergency 'abortion pills' in parts due to pressure from religious groups, as well as fears of litigation from potential users. Yet these same stores carry huge amounts goods made in the 'Peoples' Rep. of China, where abortion is rampant, used for sex selection, 'one child' population control as well as obscene levels of human and workers rights violations.

User currently offlineTedTAce From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1748 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 9):
Yet these same stores carry huge amounts goods made in the 'Peoples' Rep. of China, where abortion is rampant, used for sex selection, 'one child' population control as well as obscene levels of human and workers rights violations.

Now now, we don't want to start confusing people with THE FACTS now do we?


User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1701 times:

He should quit his job if his beliefs get in the way of his proffession like that. If it is his job to do preach while on the job...well  Yeah sure.

Quoting OzLAME (Thread starter):
While I don't agree with his decision, I do admire that he is actually doing more than paying lip-service to his faith - people who profess to be Christians so often seem to me to be such hypocrites.

I'm sure it just seems that way. Besides, who has the audacity to tell them how to live a true Christian life, you?  expressionless 



The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29799 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1690 times:

Funny, As a shopkeeper doesn't this guy have a right to decided what he will and won't sell?

As mentioned before, there is probably a Protestant who is willing to take up the buisness he is turning away.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14026 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1685 times:

Unless the only pharmacy close by is e.g. Walmart, who have forced all smaller competition in town to close. Or the next pharmacy is 20 miles away, like in the case in Ireland.

Jan


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1674 times:

He should be stripped of his license. Period.

If your personal views get in the way of performing your job, you should be in a different line of business.

N


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1668 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 14):
He should be stripped of his license. Period.

If your personal views get in the way of performing your job, you should be in a different line of business.

I agree. He is living in a secular society and has no right to impose his narrow religious beliefs on others. I can only imagine the potential health hazards he has already caused with customers who are unable to access another pharmacist. Shame on this religious bigot.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1663 times:

Old news, old thread. This theme was discussed several times before.

But I admire his attitude also.

Is he loosing some [just some, maybe a little bit] business? Well, is his problem. Not mine. Not yours. Just only think about a Jew who owns a business, who decide to sell only kosher products? Or not to sell pork because of religious beliefs? He also will be loosing some business from non Jewish customers also. His problem either way.

Is up to him. He owns his business, he sell what he wants. Not what others wants.

But once again, there is nothing new in this thread. Just old news.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14026 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1646 times:

I don't mind as long as there is competition within the reachable area (also for teenagers, who don't have a car), but I have a problem with his attitude if he is the only chemist within reach and therefore forces his beliefs on others.

Jan


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1638 times:

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 16):
Is up to him. He owns his business, he sell what he wants. Not what others wants.

That's bullshit. He's not a general store shopkeeper, he's a licensed health professional. He's required to follow the instructions of doctors.

Many contraceptive hormones are prescribed for a wide variety of other "female problems". He could be endangering the lives of patients.

He should not be allowed to dispense medication.

N


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5107 posts, RR: 21
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1624 times:

Time we accepted the inevitable. Christian America versus the United States of Canada. Wake me when it's over.


Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1614 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 18):
That's bullshit. He's not a general store shopkeeper, he's a licensed health professional. He's required to follow the instructions of doctors.

Many contraceptive hormones are prescribed for a wide variety of other "female problems". He could be endangering the lives of patients.

He should not be allowed to dispense medication.

Maybe in the U.S. he will be required to do so by law (I really don´t know that for sure. Is just a supposition). But THIS happened in another country (Australia).

If she needs such medication, she may go to another drug store.

By the way, how could you know that...

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 18):
He's not a general store shopkeeper


By the way is the same situation described in replies 10 and 12 at http://www.airliners.net/discussions/site_related/read.main/37909/

[Edited 2005-06-26 03:53:52]

User currently offlineQANTASforever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1607 times:

TACAA320 -

Well, I actually know for a fact that he isn't a general store keeper because I've seen the footage of the news report. He is a pharmacist exclusively.

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 16):
Is up to him. He owns his business, he sell what he wants. Not what others wants.

Well, he is bound by a code of conduct and licensed by the Department of Health, so I don't think everything is entirely up to him.

However I don't think he's actually broken any laws.

The whole thing is bloody stupid in my opinion, as I've said before. Some religious nutter, a relic from an era now thankfully behind us.

Anyway - the story was on a program called "A Current Affair" - which is about the trashiest and lamest tabloid "news" show on television.

QFF


User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1602 times:

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 21):
However I don't think he's actually broken any laws.

That´s right.

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 21):
he is bound by a code of conduct and licensed by the Department of Health,

Unless proven the opposite, I must say he´s conducting himself (professionally) according with such code. Otherwise, he will not be allowed to practice.

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 21):
The whole thing is bloody stupid in my opinion,

Like this thread.


User currently offlineCaptOveur From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1594 times:

This crap disgusts me.

If you aren't prepared to do your friggin job objectively you need to find a new line of work. It is not this pharmacists business why this medication is being prescribed for patients, it is his business to dispense the pills.

These religious weenies need to quit forcing their views on the others. I think the ultra-conservative baptists we have around where I live are a bunch of ignorant fuckups who need to stop forcing their views on others (shutting down strip clubs, porn stores, etc), but I don't go around burning down their churches or telling them that. It is their right to be ignorant and they can tell me I am going to hell all they want. Just like this pharmacist should be dispensing the pills, he can know in whatever dark pit of his being that the woman is going to hell but he needs to just shut up and do his damn job.


End rant


User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1587 times:

"These religious weenies need to quit forcing their views on the others.:

I call that "religious intolerance".


25 Post contains images Lehpron : Hold on, what are you reacting to, I'm getting mixed reactions from that. I do get the impression of a clash between differing freedoms. Do you feel
26 Post contains images Solnabo : "Im not gonna sell you Aspirin ´cuz according to my beliefs humans dont have head ache" Hellooooooo Micke//SE
27 Barcode : I'm a vegetarian. So if I take a job at McDonald's and then refuse to serve Big Mac's because I find it unethical, does that mean those opposed to my
28 MD11Engineer : So you think this pharmacist has his right to force his lifestyle on others who don't share his belief? Let's say he is a a MD and Jehova's Witness a
29 TACAA320 : "So you think this pharmacist has his right to force his lifestyle on others who don't share his belief?" [reply 28] I never said that. You did. What
30 MD11Engineer : The stories about rural Ireland came from both my own experience and from the personal experience of a woman I know. No urban legend there. Somebody h
31 Post contains images FlyAUA : OzLAME, thanks for the post. Well that makes a lot of f***ing sense! So what does he want people to make lots of babies they do not want to have, or
32 TACAA320 : Any link where I can read the whole history? Not to be based only in "personal experience and from the personal experience of a woman I know...". Can
33 FlyAUA : Well I guess if he's a pharmacist serving the public, he doesn't have much choice. Sounds to me like he's better off as a priest or preacher, not som
34 MD11Engineer : You call me a liar? I have been in village pharmacies in Ireland, in County Sligo and Galway, trying to get a pack of condoms, because my girlfriend
35 Aloges : Jan, alas it's pointless to discuss religious issues with the CRI. That's the Costa Rican Inquisition. Back on track, I can understand why he wouldn't
36 TACAA320 : "You call me a liar?" Just tell me where. Because the first one in here [and only] saying that word is you. I just ask for a link where I can read the
37 MD11Engineer : So what is not on the internet doesn't exist for you? And in fact you are calling me a liar. Bullshit! Jan
38 TACAA320 : In fact, this seems to be another urban legend.
39 MD11Engineer : Taca, if I would openly say what I think of you, I would be banned. I wish we had a disrespected user list. Jan
40 Post contains images FlyAUA : Hey, stop stealing my lines
41 L-188 : Almost a valid comparison. If this guy was a paid employee of a pharmacy or a hospital, I would agree with you. He gave up his right to follow his be
42 TACAA320 : "Taca, if I would openly say what I think of you, I would be banned. I wish we had a disrespected user list." Do you and FlyAUA think I really care?[E
43 TACAA320 : Once again. Tell me where did I say that verb to you?
44 Aloges : my pleasure: You say you doubt someone MD11Engineer says he can trust 100%. Therefore, you doubt MD11Engineer's truthfulness in this forum. That's ca
45 MD11Engineer : Taca is also rejecting my own experience of being refused to buy condoms in rural Irish villages. I wonder what the teenagers without access to a car
46 Post contains images TACAA320 : I still don't see that verb in any of my posts. Not referred to anybody in here. This is boring now. I will rest for now and until I consider it neces
47 Jaysit : Fundamentalist religious fiends of all stripes usually have their just desserts delivered to them in ironic and hilarious ways. One day this Catholic
48 Post contains images Aloges : OK, you're probably not familiar with the concept of implicit meanings. Far too kind... Don't lose your marbles, because in that case you couldn't re
49 Post contains images TACAA320 : "OK, you're probably not familiar with the concept of implicit meanings." Yes I am. And is not applicable here. "Don't lose your marbles, because in t
50 SSTjumbo : HERE HERE FOLKS!!!! I think it might be wise of somebody to cite the actual law stating that he has to distribute contraceptives if it is the law. I'm
51 Post contains links TACAA320 : http://www.psa.org.au/ecms.cfm?id=45
52 TACAA320 : " His Grace Most Reverend John Charles McQuaid, D.D. Archbishop of Dublin, Primate of Ireland. Archbishop's House, Dublin 9.25th November, 1970 1. For
53 MD11Engineer : From the Irish Constitution (BUNREACHT NA hEIREANN): I'd advise you to look at article 2.2 Even though Archbishop McQuaid of Dublin, who tried to infl
54 Post contains links TACAA320 : Quoting the Preamble of the Irish Constitution and other interesting related themes: "Preamble (full text)In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity, from W
55 MD11Engineer : I accuse you of selective quoting. From your own source: [quote) Religion The Constitution of Ireland, particularly in the form in which it was adopte
56 MD11Engineer : BTW, having actually lived in Ireland, I can tell you that it is mainly a generational divide, as well as a divide between the urban and the rural pop
57 Post contains links TACAA320 : Old article but interesting: http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/special/1999/abortion/chapter6.htm Extracted from previous link: "Factors which contribu
58 MD11Engineer : So why do Germany and the Netherlands, where condoms are freely available without age restrictions in any supermarket, and where teenage girls can rec
59 TACAA320 : Good question. Unfortunatelly I can´t give you an answer right now.
60 MD11Engineer : From your article: BTW, the Irish Times was my daily newspaper while I was living in Ireland Jan
61 FSPilot747 : Religious nutcase.. FSP
62 TACAA320 : I still don't see any "legal" obligation of the Australian nor Irish pharmacist to sell the contraceptives[pills]. Same conclusion again: she can look
63 Texdravid : Why in the world would you become a retail pharmacist when you know in your line of work you may or may not be selling drugs that are perfectly legal
64 Mir : If the pharmacist objects to giving out a certain drug, fine by me. But then they should have to make sure that the patient gets that drug, at the pha
65 Post contains links MD11Engineer : I phoned the Pharmaceutical Society of Australia last night. There is in fact no legal requirement for a pharmacist to supply drugs he finds immoral.
66 TACAA320 : "There is in fact no legal requirement for a pharmacist to supply drugs he finds immoral. But the PSA has published a guideline paper, here , which do
67 MD11Engineer : He might be legal, but he is still forcing his belief on others, if there is no reachable alternative source. Nobody forces him to use contraceptives
68 TACAA320 : He was legally acting. I really don´t see him forcing anybody to do anything. She had other options. If the client, customer (whatever you want to c
69 MD11Engineer : The point is again if he is the only one within reachable distance. Then he has a monopoly. In Germany e.g. due to the guaranteed quota of pharmacies
70 TACAA320 : "The point is again if he is the only one within reachable distance. Then he has a monopoly."[previous post] The initial thread don't say anything in
71 MD11Engineer : Well, in the case of my friend, the gynaecologist outright refused ANY form of contraception, stating that 3 children are not enough at the age of 30
72 TACAA320 : I see a huge difference between your posts and the initial thread. Yours are basically referred to Ireland, and this thread is about a situation in Au
73 MD11Engineer : Ok, unfortunately I lost contact with my friend affter I moved back to Germany. AFAIK she also moved back but since Germany is big and she since then
74 TACAA320 : "In a city e.g. he could just point the customers to the next pharmacy, but what to do if the next pharmacy is 100 km away?"[from previous post] That
75 OzLAME : TACAA320, I must say I find your general air of disbelief strange. The pharmacy is in the NSW country town of Merriwa and like the situation in most c
76 MD11Engineer : Nevil Shute is one of my favourite authors, I especially like "A Town Like Alice" or "The Checkerboard". The thing is that this guy is not even asked
77 TACAA320 : Thanks a lot for the additional facts and your vast and deep participation in your own thread. For the rest, here is my answer... .....[Edited 2005-07
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