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Whats Going On In Germany?  
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24947 posts, RR: 56
Posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2360 times:

http://www.opinion.telegraph.co.uk/o.../opinion/2005/07/02/ixopinion.html

Schroeder playing dirty or what?  scratchchin 


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
76 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2346 times:

Quoting Gkirk (Thread starter):
Schroeder playing dirty or what?

No, he isn't. The German Chancellor isn't - unlike the British PM -allowed to suspend the Parliament. But if he want do to so he has to loose a vote of confidence. That's what happened yesterday. The target are new elections in autumn.

pelican


User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2342 times:

No, I wouldn't say he plays dirty. Schröder and his government had no other choice but trying to get new elections. He not only faces oppositon from the majority of Germans, but also from within his own party and his Green partners. In the current constellation it would be impossible to go forward with any reforms which Germany really needs. So waiting one year for the next regular elections without being able to actively govern would be a waste of time and a loss for Germany.


Regards
Udo


User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2317 times:

Defiitely the best he could do.. and at least I hope he wins again, in the same constellation... CDU failed 16 yrs, and germany with Agenda 2010 and hartz IV is on the right track.. now all sides need to work together

User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7960 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2236 times:

Chancellor Schr�der is the first German head of the government (and probably one of very few in general) who is willing to sacrifice his political power in favour of the country.
I wouldn't call this "playing dirty".



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineLijnden From Philippines, joined Apr 2003, 564 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2177 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I deal with Germans every day and even have a company in Mainz.
The Red-Green coalition has worsen German society in almost every field;

- Unemployment was never so high,
- New jobs were never created and the average age of a unemployed person
has dropped,
- Higher taxes for everybody,
- Higher deficit than ever before,
- Muslims radicalized more than ever before,
- Crime rates highest ever,
- Social programmes being dismantled,
- Educational crisis,
- International relations has never been so bad and bringing Germany to the
edge of isoloment,
- The right of referenda was blocked,
- German's infrastructure was not maintained,
- Very slow compliance with EU laws,
- Environmental policies (like the unwanted 'Pfand' on cans) did not work,

The only thing left for Schroeder: Political Suicide
In a Bundestag with so many unfit politicians I can understand the move of Schroeder. Maybe a coalition with Bavaria-miracle-manager Stoiber instead of the Greens would have reached to more accomplishments.

Anyway, I hope somebody will establish some sort of Political Diploma in the EU soon, before anybody is allowed to become a politician. (A license of competence like a driver-license).



Be kind to animals!
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7960 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2156 times:

Quoting Lijnden (Reply 5):
Higher taxes for everybody,

Actually, taxes were lowered.

Quoting Lijnden (Reply 5):
Educational crisis

Education does not fall within the responsibilities of the Federal Government.

Quoting Lijnden (Reply 5):
The right of referenda was blocked,

Sorry?

Quoting Lijnden (Reply 5):
International relations has never been so bad and bringing Germany to the
edge of isoloment,

This statement is at least debatable.

Quoting Lijnden (Reply 5):
Environmental policies (like the unwanted 'Pfand' on cans) did not work,

The so called Dosenpfand was a minor political decision within the last seven years.

Quoting Lijnden (Reply 5):
Muslims radicalized more than ever before,

Says who? And even if: Why is that the fault of the Federal Government?

Quoting Lijnden (Reply 5):
Crime rates highest ever,

Dead wrong.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24947 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2144 times:

Can we all agreee that the Germans suck  Wink


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7960 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2143 times:

Quoting Lijnden (Reply 5):
Anyway, I hope somebody will establish some sort of Political Diploma in the EU soon, before anybody is allowed to become a politician.

Feel free to study political science, but voters alone should remain being the only authority judging your competence. Claiming Germans voted "so many unfit politicians" into the Bundestag is offensive.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7960 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2136 times:

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 7):
Can we all agreee that the Germans suck

Sure, I'm quite good in sucking on certain body parts of young and beautiful women.  Smile



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2116 times:

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 9):
Sure, I'm quite good in sucking on certain body parts of young and beautiful women.

Me too.

Ask Teahan for details, rumor has it that he knows the sexual preferences of at least 50% of all A.netters.  Wink

Patrick


User currently offlineLijnden From Philippines, joined Apr 2003, 564 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2074 times:
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Hi NoUFO,

Politicians and competence! You trust politicians with all that money and power and can garantee that not one Euro is wasted? No my friend, politicians should, just like doctors, pilots and the everyday bus-driver, get some form of Diploma or competence test. I think politicians should also be tested on drugs and alcohol abuse at random. They are not above the law or uebermenschen! Wasting public money should become a crime to be punished by long hours of community work or jail.

Here in NL we have so much proof of wasting money by politicians, it is not funny anymore! However, not one politician is held accountable. It makes me sick.

About crime rates in Germany: The are 1.2% on the rise!

Tschuess



Be kind to animals!
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 2003, 14072 posts, RR: 62
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2065 times:

Schröder's tactic was a political masterstroke: Now the Union is forced to show their cards and...
no program! For the last years they have constantly been obstructing any reforms planed by the red-green government (which BTW also f*cked up a few times) and now they can show no program of their own.

Jan


User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24947 posts, RR: 56
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2058 times:

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 9):
Sure, I'm quite good in sucking on certain body parts of young and beautiful men.

 Wow!
FlyAUA will invite you to his house now  Wink



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7960 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2035 times:

Kirkie, please at least try to read carefully: I said women not men, you dirty forger.

Quoting Lijnden (Reply 11):
Politicians and competence! You trust politicians with all that money and power and can garantee that not one Euro is wasted?

Where did I say that? In general, I do trust politicians as long as they don't come from the extreme right or left. I do not consider them worse or better than the average Joe, and I do not plan to join those who tirelessly bash politicians and blame them for almost everything but the weather.
Even banks and international conglomerates waste money.

Quoting Lijnden (Reply 11):
No my friend, politicians should, just like doctors, pilots and the everyday bus-driver, get some form of Diploma or competence test.

As mentioned before, you can study political science and can get a diploma. However, in our country, politicians are elected representatives. Hence, a politician can - in theory - be a former peasant farmer or a cleaning lady, and this is the way it should be. If he or she is not qualified, the wannabe politician will never become a representative or will stop being one after a couple of years.

Quoting Lijnden (Reply 11):
However, not one politician is held accountable. It makes me sick.

You don't need to vote for him or her next time.
To bring a politician to justice, he or she would have to embezzle money.

Quoting Lijnden (Reply 11):
About crime rates in Germany: The are 1.2% on the rise!

Actually, it's 0.2% compared to 2003:
"... ergäbe sich 2004 bei Straftaten insgesamt für die Bundesrepublik Deutschland eine Steigerung von 0,2 Prozent (2004: 6.608.756 Fälle; 2003: 6.596.535 Fälle)"
Source: Bundeskriminalamt (http://www.bka.de)

You wrote the current rates were "the highest ever" which reads: the highest since the founding of the Federal Republic of Germany. This is dead wrong, because the crime rates are in a steady decline since the mid-70ies. Occasional rises like that of the last year notwithstanding.

Edit: Crappy umlauts.

[Edited 2005-07-04 17:53:12]


I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 2003, 14072 posts, RR: 62
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2026 times:

Actually IMO, too many of our politicians are career politicians, who came from the university with a dgree in political sciences. The second biggest group are former civil servants or other people from the public sector, simply due to the fact that the state as the employer has to give them unlimited leave with a guarantee to get their old jobs back if they fail. Try this in the normal world. I wish our parliament would be a bit closer to the population, e.g. with entrepreneurs, blue collar workers (the ones which ruled the social democrats up to the 1970s, when it was still a worker's party, have largely been replaced with academics, sociologists, school teachers and politologists), some ex militaries, or maybe some research scientists. I think thid would bring more common sense into politics. Right now the careerists are only watching the polls, to have a reelection guaranteed, because without it, they'd be unemployed, or the civil servant types, who do everything for their protected species, but ignore the rest of the population (why do you think the public sector in Germany is so inefficient?).


Jan


User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2003 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 15):
Actually IMO, too many of our politicians are career politicians, who came from the university with a dgree in political sciences.

Generally I agree with you on this matter. But jurists are by far the biggest group. They are coming from the civil service (you mentioned the reason) or are lawyers. The second biggest group are teachers. That's because they are also civil servants.
Unfortunately ex-minister Müller proofed that "Quereinsteiger" (career changers) aren't the better choice by default.
It should be prohibited to be civil servant and member of parliament.

Statistic about profession of members of the Bundestag:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitglied_des_Deutschen_Bundestages

pelican


User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7960 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1987 times:

Quoting Pelican (Reply 16):
It should be prohibited to be civil servant and member of parliament.

Being a civil servant does not mean the loss of civil rights.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 2003, 14072 posts, RR: 62
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1980 times:

But I think there is a ban on active soldiers to become an MDB (or any political occupation). They'll have to retire first. The same AFAIK applies to police officers.

Jan


User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1966 times:

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 17):
Being a civil servant does not mean the loss of civil rights.

Huh? In the UK you have to quit before you become a member of parliament. Where would such a regultion interfere with your civil rights?

pelican


User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7960 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1964 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 18):
But I think there is a ban on active soldiers to become an MDB (or any political occupation). They'll have to retire first. The same AFAIK applies to police officers.

Wrong. Fortunately. I would vehemently protest agains such a decision.
Excerpt from a Bundeswehr brochure issued by the Ministry of Defense:

"Integration
- Sie will die Einbettung des Soldaten in Staat und Gesellschaft fördern durch möglichst heimatnahe Einberufung, Ausgang nach Dienst, aktives und passives Wahlrecht und erlaubte politische Betätigung sowie Berufsförderung. Die Bundeswehr ist in den Staat durch Verfassung und Gesetze eingeordnet und in die Gesellschaft eingebunden."

http://sicherheitspolitik.bundeswehr.de/14/4.php

Edit: Those stupid umlauts!

Norbert

[Edited 2005-07-04 20:40:21]


I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 2003, 14072 posts, RR: 62
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1951 times:

Passives Wahlrecht I knew, but i thought a soldier had to stay politically neutral and was not allowed to be a member of a radical party.

Jan


User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7960 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1939 times:

Jan,
Civil servants, police officers and soldiers have a Damocles' Sword over their head if they are members of a politically radical party. True.
At the same time, they shall be politically active but in a civil way - not too vocal but active.
The same group is asked to stay politically neutral while in office / uniform.

Pelican: I don't care about what Britons do. Members of the German Bundestag are asked to remain in their professions as long possible, which IMO is right for various reasons.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 2003, 14072 posts, RR: 62
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1927 times:

Ok, you will never see a e.g. a soldier, who is an MDB sitting in parliament, wearing his uniform.

Jan


User currently offlineLijnden From Philippines, joined Apr 2003, 564 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1914 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Hi NoUfo,

I said the crime rate was never so high, which is true. OK, if you count WW2 you might see higher numbers, but that was war.

Quote:
As mentioned before, you can study political science and can get a diploma. However, in our country, politicians are elected representatives. Hence, a politician can - in theory - be a former peasant farmer or a cleaning lady, and this is the way it should be. If he or she is not qualified, the wannabe politician will never become a representative or will stop being one after a couple of years.

Anyway, aren't politicians in Germany not directly elected but appointed by the party to hold a seat. At least I cannot imagine anybody voting for number 21 or number 23 on the CDU-list except family and friends. The fact remains that a group of complete incompetent people are able to run Germany. What often follows is economic downfall, high unemployment and lack of investments in the stock markets because there is no trust. I believe Germany is like this since about the early 90's. The political balance is completely gone and what is running Germany today are saloon-socialists who only care about themselves. Look at the EU-constitution. This was ratified on a Thursday afternoon in the Bundestag without any major discussion. What did the average German think of this idea? The Bundestag voted 96% in favor and 4% against. Hardly a representation of it's people, don't you think! More like major arrogance. I think in a referendum in Germany it would be at least a close call, if not a defeat.
Remember in Holland the parliament voted 83% in favor and 17% against. The results in a referendum were >60% against. A loud wake-up call for Den Haag and to Brussels. When does Berlin gets its wake up call?

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1581297,00.html

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/jun2005/neth-j04_prn.shtml

Ciao



Be kind to animals!
25 Post contains links MD11Engineer : For the federal elections you'll have two votes. The first one picks a direct candidate for your constituency. The second, far more important one pick
26 MD11Engineer : BTW, the statistics only covers cases where the police investigated. It doesn't say if there was a charge by a prosecutor or a conviction following th
27 Post contains images Andreas : Absolutely...but to be more precise: Germans definitely do suck (and love too suck, too!) on several parts of human beings (MW, WM, MM, WW), whereas
28 Pelican : Sometimes we (meaning us Germans) should. It's not all bad on these little isles. There is a reason why by far the biggest profession group in the Bu
29 NoUFO : Jan, You're right, you won't see police officers or soldiers in uniform in a parliament, but they are entitled to get elected. Lijnden, At the risk of
30 Post contains links and images Klaus : Wrong. The official crime statistic (download PDF here from the federal interior ministry) shows on page 3 that neither absolute nor relative crime i
31 Post contains images NoUFO : True, I was little harsh. Sometimes we should risk catching a glimpse. Agreed. Join (or found) a party and get enlisted and elected. If you won't get
32 Post contains images Andreas : Klaus, what's wrong with you? Having a bad day? Did wifey leave you for a hot young investment banker from Farnkfurt ? Jeez, calm down, in your age, s
33 Post contains images NoUFO : I am sitting down. Not my fault I'm six feet four. Signed, Klaus (*WOW* my first signed by post )
34 MD11Engineer : Among people who are interested in EU affairs, there was a discussion, but as you may have noticed e.g. during the EU parliament elections, most peop
35 Post contains images Andreas : You can hardly call that a public discussion! Besides I do believe that those discussions are on the wrong level: I cannot recall any discussions abo
36 Pelican : Actually you will only get pensions after 8 years, but I see your point. Although increasing pensions or the incomes of MdBs is impossible nowadays,
37 Pelican : I don't want to euphemise the government of Kohl but to call it the worst thing that happened to Germany is exaggerated. But we have to postpone this
38 NoUFO : Sure. The main reason for why I am not a teacher now is that some people were afraid I, a hard of hearing, could claim I was no longer able to unders
39 MD11Engineer : How true. I visited my old high school last year (after almost 20 years) and discovered that all of the lazy teachers we had back then filed for diab
40 Avek00 : I'm glad that the Social Democrats are about to swept from power - the CDU is far more likely to level with the German people on the compelling need f
41 MD11Engineer : Hahaha! The CDU encouraged most of the Russian-Germans to come to Germany, they used them in an election and then dropped them, now especially the yo
42 Post contains images Klaus : Well, you´re wrong on every single possible level there...! Banco doesn´t need a further nudge across the threshold to complete insanity; He´s alr
43 Sabena332 : *cough* You should not post when you have absolutely no idea what the hell you are talking about! *cough* Patrick
44 MD11Engineer : I think you are right. Schroeder and Fischer have the right ideas, but lack the charisma to make a credible "I can only ofer you tears, blood and swe
45 Post contains images Aloges : That is, if you can get them away from watching afternoon talk shows, Volksmusik and Tatort... Beg to differ... Ever heard of St Florian? That's how
46 MD11Engineer : Aloges, Let them vote for "Margaret" Merkel and Sir Edmund. They will get what they want. I, in meantime, will leave this country for greener pastures
47 Post contains images Aloges : If only I could already do that... Norway is great, especially for med people.
48 Klaus : Sure... but I suspect people are partially retreating to those diversions exactly because they haven´t been "called to work" by fearful politicians.
49 Post contains images Andreas : Oh my, then I'd rather not find you raving on a really bad day Because he's English...he urgently needs it As I pointed out, he IS right about one or
50 Post contains images Mrniji : To say it mildly: this belongs to the biggest nonsense I have ever read. To make a government responsible for every deterioration in society is shift
51 Lijnden : Hi Klaus, What are you so afraid for? Relax! Just smile... Ready? It sounds very dictatorial, not wanting referenda, when a majority of a population w
52 ME AVN FAN : - Muslims in Germany radicalized ? who? where? when? you mean Messrs el-Atta & Co ? if so, I would hesitate to place responsibility with the German f
53 ME AVN FAN : - they do NOT have referenda in Germany. That was blocked as early as in 1949 by Theodor Heuss, their first federal president. You have that referend
54 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : - sounds a bit KKK-wise ! you apparently want to say that there are too many "NON-Whites" or whatever YOU regard as "NON-Whites" in Germany, that tho
55 Post contains images Klaus : Don´t say you hadn´t been warned! Oh, no... I´m rather fond of our relatives dwelling on the foggy isles; It´s just that amazing collection of de
56 Post contains images Pelican : We have a really big infrastructure problem. I don't say it started with Schr�der, but he didn't change it eihter. There are several hundred bil
57 Blackbird1331 : The old Russian guard screwed Germany then, and they will screw them now. Putin is a self-centered, power hungry individual, relying on his former KGB
58 Post contains images Mrniji : Yeah, I am part of the German non-whites (which is a contradiction in some peoples' eyes, as ME AVN FAN could very well that one other user here sees
59 Post contains images Andreas : No, definitely not, there have been too many "Francophiles" in this country for decades, whose idea of a nice holiday is a trip to France, mix with t
60 Udo : Quite stupid to mix up afternoon talk shows or Volksmusik with Tatort which is one of Germany's best media products. I have done studies on the subje
61 Pelican : You're probably right. But I recently saw a comparison with Switzerland on ZDF and we lost by far. And if you travel a little across Europe by car yo
62 ME AVN FAN : - suppose it is the "success" of your Green Party in the fed. govt - but still has the "flavour" of the old "Reichsbahn" - it now is relations with F
63 Post contains images Gkirk : So many dodgy German gits. I demand that y'all be banned
64 Aloges : Yikes! No need to go ballistic! "Tatort" hardly is one of the best things German TV has ever come up with; in fact it's a nice thing every now and th
65 ME AVN FAN : from Scotland I suppose ? Suggest the Germans go to Ireland and buy Jameson and Tullamore Dew WhiskEy there !
66 Post contains images Andreas : Nah, from international football tournaments...like about 70 or 80 other nations, too, like Brasil, Argentina, Italy, England.... Obviously he believ
67 Post contains images Gkirk : Andreas, you have to realise that Germany are as bad as England. Bloody cheating disgraces... You should go tajke a shower with your blow up Hasselhof
68 Post contains images Udo : Certainly it is, otherwise it wouldn't have survived so long and otherwise some of Germany's best actors wouldn't be involved. I have done studies on
69 Post contains images Aloges : I take that as a compliment, thank you.
70 Post contains images Andreas : Possibly so, but still LIGHTYEARS ahead of Scotland!!
71 Avek00 : No, your rant is 100% incorrect. I'm all for the diversification of Europe and Europeans - that said, it is the height of ignorance to act as if incr
72 Post contains images ME AVN FAN : - This shifting of emphasis, and a shifting it is as your original statement was rather generalizing, is accepted. I would NOT deny the existence of
73 Avek00 : Unfortunately, today's events in London will likely end up hammering home my point - a large unassimilated foreign immigrant population serves as a re
74 B744F : Its scary how similar the anti-immigration rants from the Nazis sound to todays
75 ME AVN FAN : Problems DO exist, UNassimilated "foreigners" DO exist, BUT your statement is a generalization, pressing the impression onto readers as if most of th
76 MD11Engineer : Well, part of the problem is that back in the 1960s, when large scale hiring of foreign workers started, the hirers were not interested in educated, q
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